Webley WG, finally found one!!! pics

[Antilles]

Just stumbled on to this one yesterday. I never thought I would find one. I wasn't even thinking of a WG on this day so you can imagine my suprise when I spotted it under the glass at a small gunshop/antique store. I have been on the lookout for a WG for years (gunshows and shops), and this is only the second one I've seen. The first was mint and had a price to match but this one is in great shape yet in my $ range.

This WG has been converted to .45 ACP which may account for the affordable price. Does anyone have any imput with regard to firing modern factory ammo through these old guns? Has anyone been doing this with their Webleys? I ask due of the higher pressures produced by the .45 ACP vs. the .455 of it's day.


Below: Comparison with my S&W. I was suprised how robust this handgun is.


Anyway, I am very pleased to have found a treasure!

Antilles

[Imahomer]

Boy it sure looks good!

[Dragonlady Jones]

Nice find! Color me green.

[binkmeisterRick]

Does anyone have any imput with regard to firing modern factory ammo through these old guns? Has anyone been doing this with their Webleys? I ask due of the higher pressures produced by the .45 ACP vs. the .455 of it's day.

Antilles, before you fire a single shot out of it, I would have it checked out by a competent gunsmith to make sure it's in prime shape for shooting inside and out. I would then ask him the question regarding what would be safe to fire from your gun. If you're unsure, never assume you can load just any bullet safely. I have a WWII S&W Victory which is a fun shooter, but it can only safely fire .38 S&W, as opposed to .38+ or .38 Special. The difference is in the load. Too strong a load could damage the gun, or worse yet, you! Great find, though!

[jts1031]

.45 ACP must be loaded to a certain pressure in order to cycle the 1911. The .45 ACP cartridge is loaded to a higher pressure than the .455 Webley and is unsafe in the long run as it will be detrimental to the Webley, even in good condition. The best advice is to reload your own .45 at a lower pressure.

[Solent MKIII]

Excellent find! Isn't it neat finding stuff like this when you're not expecting it?

( BTW, great avatar, Tundrarider! )

[Indiana Leon]

Woow! Great find! Congrats! It looks very, very awesome!

[Rook]

I advise AGAINST shooting standard .45 ACP ammunition from the WG.

I posed a similar question on a classic gun collector's forum (where
there's a couple Webley "experts") and they all agreed it was a bad idea.

Now, on the other hand, you should be able to fire .45 "Rimmed"
ammunition with no danger.

I've seen pics of a MKVI that was shaved and had .45 ammunition fired from it and
it damaged the revolver. The barrel itself was bulged (and I "think" it cracked as well)
from the pressure and rendered unuseable after that. Pretty scary stuff!

So, in a nutshell, yes, you can fire .45 ACP with moon clips through your WG.

But should you? I say no.

Russ

[Antilles]

Thanks for the info Rook. From all the information I could find the concensus would be not to fire modern ammo out of it. I did however find sources that stated they had fired countless rounds through their old Webleys without problems, yet these were in the minority. I decided therefore to have some light loads made for the WG that is not jacketed and pressures similar to the ammo the gun was designed for. I do not reload myself so I will looking for a source to make some for me. I will not need many as I don't plan to shoot it very often.
With that said, I was out shooting yesterday and brought it along just to fire it once (I had to hear her sing). The anticipation was just too great. Well, I put 3 rounds through it without any problems and now that I have it out of my system I'll have the patients to wait for some appropriate ammo.
Suprisingly, there was little recoil. My S&W1917 has more kick (same ammo) than the WG I'm sure due to the weight of the Webley. There is quite a difference in size between the two. Also, the double action is very smooth. IMO better that the S&W and FAR better than the Colt 1917.

Antilles

[Indiana Bond]

Great find Antilles!!! Welcome to the club!! If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for her?

[Antilles]

$865.00. The seller commented that if the revolver did not have the .45 conversion he would have priced it at $1600. Is this a reasonable price? I don't know, but it was worth every penny to me. I'm going to construct a holster next (CS) and will post pics.

Antilles

[Indiana Bond]

Definately worth that price!! Great find my friend!

[jts1031]

A WG Webley in 100% condition would fetch about $2500. The conversion knocks it down to the $800-600 range. Keep in mind that a gun approaching 120 years old is very unlikely to be in 100% condition. The .45ACP is loaded to pressures high enough to cycle a 1911 slide, which will damage the Webley. The other option is to reload your own .45ACP to a lower pressure. The other problem is the gun will never be accurate. The barrel is still set for a .455 caliber bullet where as the .45ACP is a .452 caliber. Plus they tend to run copper jacketed bullets which don't do much to grab the rifling of the barrel. All things to keep in mind when shopping for a WG.

[Antilles]

jts1031 wrote:

A WG Webley in 100% condition would fetch about $2500. The conversion knocks it down to the $800-600 range. Keep in mind that a gun approaching 120 years old is very unlikely to be in 100% condition. The .45ACP is loaded to pressures high enough to cycle a 1911 slide, which will damage the Webley. The other option is to reload your own .45ACP to a lower pressure. The other problem is the gun will never be accurate. The barrel is still set for a .455 caliber bullet where as the .45ACP is a .452 caliber. Plus they tend to run copper jacketed bullets which don't do much to grab the rifling of the barrel. All things to keep in mind when shopping for a WG.

This WG says 450/455 on the barrel. It seems more compatable with respect to .45 ACP rounds (?).

Antilles

[jts1031]

This WG says 450/455 on the barrel. It seems more compatable with respect to .45 ACP rounds (?).

At the cylinder, most likely, yes, as it's been cut for the .45ACP with moon clips. But the barrel will still be sized for a .455 bullet. Granted, we're only talking about 3 thousandths of an inch. But if the bullet is able to bounce around even a little bit going down the barrel it will not be accurate. Keep in mind that the .455 Webley was a lead bullet, soft enough to grab the rifling of the barrel and it would be a bit of a tight fit. If you can just let a .45ACP fall through the barrel without ever catching, it's not going to be accurate. This is just what I can tell you from afar without actually seeing the gun.

[Antilles]

Thanks jts1031, and I intend to shoot lead bullet though it from now on. One question though on something I'm just not clear on yet. Would not the barrel be smaller on a Webley caliber marked 450/455 vs. 455/476? I'm not sure what the double #'s (xxx/xxx) indicate.

Antilles

[jts1031]

Thanks jts1031, and I intend to shoot lead bullet though it from now on. One question though on something I'm just not clear on yet. Would not the barrel be smaller on a Webley caliber marked 450/455 vs. 455/476? I'm not sure what the double #'s (xxx/xxx) indicate.

Antilles

That indicates that the gun could chamber both a .450 and .455 caliber round, and a .455 and .476 round. But the difference in those rounds, as far as I know, was in case length. The bullet diameter would have been roughly the same. You can't really go by caliber to determine bullet diameter on any gun. A 9mm, .380ACP, .38 special, .38 super, and .357 are all going to shoot a bullet roughly around the .356 mark. The .45 Colt shoots either a .451 jacketed bullet or a .454 lead bullet. For reloading, I've always used a .452...so it can get very confusing.

[Rook]

Some early model Webleys are badged to only shoot .450.
Later models only .455 and some WGs are .455/.476. Kind of a turkey shoot as to which model you'll end up with.

Russ

[franky jones]

nice gun congradulations , that is a great price you paid for that sexy beast!!! have fun with it an if you ever want to sell i will gladly buy it of you( in my dreams)

[Wisconsin Platt]

In my experience with several Webley Mk V and Mk VI revolvers, the bore diameter is significantly smaller than the .455 suggested by most as "proper" Webley bullet diameter. Mine mike around .445 to .448 in the lands and .450 to .451 in the grooves and shoot accurately with bullets intended for the .45 ACP and AutoRim. I was just out shooting a newly aquired Mk VI with PMC .45 AutoRim ammo (plated 200grn hollow base semi-wadcutters at around 675fps) and was rolling cans at 50+yds. All of the Webleys I have had would group well and shot either exactly to point of aim at typical pistol ranges (15 to 25yds) or close enough that trigger control made more of a difference in point of impact than the sight regulation.

The British service rounds regardless of their exact designation (.450/.455/476) used the same nominal bore size and most of the earlier rounds will chamber and fire just fine in later model revolvers.

I would try standard lead .45acp bullets in Auto Rim cases loaded with enough Unique push them at 650fps or so as a place to start. If the accuracy isn't up to snuff then try a hollow base bullet design. It seems the biggest accuracy issue in Webleys are the small chamber throats which cause the bullet to take a beating as it is smashed down and then bumped up to size.

[Antilles]

Excellent feedback and much appreciated! I'll find something to shoot through it sooner or later. I have to confess though, I'm already considering selling her. It was an impulsive purchase and financial reality has set in. If I do, I'll mention it in the CAIRO BAZAAR.

Antilles

[Kokopelli]

How many of us here are guilty of impulse buys? I would bet ALL of us!
Antilles- sent you a pm