Some snafus of hatmaking

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:53 pm

Every now and then, I get re-educated regarding the needs of customers. I just made a Raiders fedora, using the no shellac bodies that I can get from my feltmaker. I got an email today, saying he wanted me to remake the hat. Since he paid the new 400 price, I put the new liner in the hat, the one that cost an arm and a leg, as I do with the higher priced orders, unless otherwise requested. My s.of r. liner costs me bout' 5 bucks, whereas, the new, very classy one, cost me bout' 20 bucks a liner. So this hat got the expensive liner.

Then, he wanted the hat to be stiffer like some of my older ones.(as I just found out) Now, after many requests to get a softer Raiders body for those fedoras, I ordered alot of them! And they are soft! The brim will flop around in the wind. To me, its as close as pure beaver will ever get in the floppy department.

Of course, I always try my best to please, so a remake is in order. But, just thought this would show you what us Indy hatters have to consider, when making ANY changes.

But, I am here to please, as best that I can. Any other good stories out there, without divulging names? Fedora

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:57 pm

I don't understand what some guys see in a stiff hat, but to each his own. Hey, I'm not wearing it, so what do I care. I do think, though, that if you are ordering a custom made hat and you want a certain amount of stiffnes or floppiness, tell the hatter that. Everytime I have ordered a custom hat I always say "Make her as floppy as can be," even if I've ordered a hat from the same hatter before. If you are getting something custom made you should get exactly what you want, but that needs to be communicated to the hatter. If floppy is the standard and you don't want it, say so!

Dave

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:16 pm

I'm with Dave. If I were ordering a hat and wanted it Pith helmet stiff, I'd say so up front, not after the hat was made. But as the tired old adage goes, the customer is always right.. though I tend to disagree with it. Maybe it should go, the customer has a mind of their own.. and should use it!

Randy

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:43 pm

Keep in mind "stiffer" doesn't necessarily mean stiff as a board, like cowboy hats. I have a first run AB and when I got it, it wasn't floppy, but the brim and felt were soft and easily pliable. Some folks like a hat so floppy that it changes shape just by looking at it, while others prefer a bit more "body" to their hats.

JeffB · Post by **JeffB** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:47 pm

Just for the record, Steve, I'll take mine floppy.

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:10 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:Keep in mind "stiffer" doesn't necessarily mean stiff as a board, like cowboy hats. I have a first run AB and when I got it, it wasn't floppy, but the brim and felt were soft and easily pliable. Some folks like a hat so floppy that it changes shape just by looking at it, while others prefer a bit more "body" to their hats.

I was hyperboling for effect. I can see where some would want a stiff hat.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:38 pm

Any other good stories out there, without divulging names?

Well, just a few ones recently:

"Can you put a tear drop crown into my Indy Fedora?"

"Could you make an Indy Fedora with a rather low crown?"

"Hey Marc, something went wrong here... My newly received Raiders Fedora was creased clearly off center"

"I really like the Raiders Fedora the best. Can you make it just like when Indy meets Donovan?"

And my favorite:

"I ordered my hat X months ago, but still haven't received it. Could you give me the date when you ship it?"

Regards,

Marc

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:51 pm

Marc wrote:
Any other good stories out there, without divulging names?
Well, just a few ones recently:

"Can you put a tear drop crown into my Indy Fedora?"

"Could you make an Indy Fedora with a rather low crown?"

"Hey Marc, something went wrong here... My newly received Raiders Fedora was creased clearly off center"

"I really like the Raiders Fedora the best. Can you make it just like when Indy meets Donovan?"

And my favorite:

"I ordered my hat X months ago, but still haven't received it. Could you give me the date when you ship it?"

Regards,

Marc

Hey now ! Just be glad you haven't got the " can you put an Indiana Jones pin on my ribbon?" yet!

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:56 pm

Order placed on Jan 20th 2009. Told customer it would be around 3 months before I can work on his hat and send it to him ( turn around time). Feb. 18th 2009 I get a e-mail asking if there is any progress?

Ranger36 · Post by **Ranger36** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:20 pm

Marc wrote: "I really like the Raiders Fedora the best. Can you make it just like when Indy meets Donovan?"

Marc

MustangLoverMex · Post by **MustangLoverMex** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:41 pm

Well, I finally made a Fur Felt hat... the costumer told me: "I want an Indiana Jones Fedora" I was thrilled because I think that's the hat that I've "studied" the best (Thanks to all of you). A day later I delivered the hat and the answer of the customer was" Hey... I asked you for an Indy Hat, where's the teardrop in here? Oh... and the crown is way too high, and talking about the brim... bla bla bla..." (It's worth to mention that I did the hat using the exact specifications listed in here and using as a reference my Fed IV).
My response was "Mmmm... Could you please send me a picture of what do you want?" and I received this:

Sadly I had to put the teardrop and everthing else that make us hate that DP hat

Regards,
-Alfonso

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:14 pm

Ah, some good stories. I too got a call recently from a guy who said he wanted me to fix his hat after around 3 years of owning it. He said the top crease did not go straight down the hat, but was off center.

I asked him if it was a Raiders fedora, and he said yes. I then explained why the hat was turned and then creased. And he learned something about the Raiders fedora. I am actually surprised that I don't get more of this since I sold more hats outside out circle here, than inside it.

And, if you are to be a decent vendor, the customer is always right. It has to be this way. And I am sure the guys here who make hats, get to chuckle pretty often. I guess my best one to date is the guy who wanted a TOD fedora, but with the Raiders turn and pinch. That's what I made him, and actually, it wasn't that bad. Looked like a stock HJ, just better materials. He was thrilled with the results. At least you get to play with creases and block shapes. Fedora

MustangLoverMex · Post by **MustangLoverMex** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:46 pm

Fedora wrote:... And, if you are to be a decent vendor, the customer is always right. It has to be this way. And I am sure the guys here who make hats, get to chuckle pretty often... Fedora

That should be written in gold my friend...

Regards,
-Alfonso

DoubleOhSeven · Post by **DoubleOhSeven** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:36 am

These stories just go to prove my theory of "perspective and opinion".

It really involves that a lot of people really don't know what they're talking about when they say an "Indy hat" (or jacket, or boots, etc.). I read a post in a the jacket forum where a member was told his jacket (was a Wested, I think) wasn't an Indiana Jones jacket because it didn't have elastic at the wrists and was the wrong color.

I had a guy comment on my Camptown like that one day, wherein he told me my hat looked pretty close to the one worn in Raiders, except it wasn't leather. Leather? I said. He told me, yeah, Indiana Jones's hat is leather.

Ooookay.

Most people formulate an opinion, based on their perspective, of the way Indy's hat looks, or should look, because of the limited knowledge they have of the actual hat involved. Like the one guy was so used to seeing the DP fedora, he thought that's the way Indy's hat is supposed to look. I'd never make it as a hatter, because I'd be the one to say, nope, let me show you, and then pull up some DVD scenes and a few sign-ons to COW here to prove my point. My hat's off to you guys, literally, for putting up with people's perspectives and opinions.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:47 am

I've gotten the leather comment too. I had this guy, who I really don't like at all, come up to me while I was wearing my AB and ask me "Hey, is that an Indiana Jones hat?" I said it was and he replied by saying "Why didn't you get it in leather, you know like in the moveis?" I laughed and just told him "Why don't you ask the guy who made the hat, he also made the ones in the movie" and walked away. He ended up following me and was trying to convince me that the film hats were indeed made of leather. I think he was still talking as I got into my car and sped away.

Dave

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:07 am

Dutch_jones wrote:......
Hey now ! Just be glad you haven't got the " can you put an Indiana Jones pin on my ribbon?" yet!

If I was Indiana Jones, that's what I'd have on my hat

You wouldn't happen to have extra of those would you?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:28 am

had a guy comment on my Camptown like that one day, wherein he told me my hat looked pretty close to the one worn in Raiders, except it wasn't leather. Leather

Oh, this has happened to me several times over the years. You would be surprised at just how many folks think the hat was leather!! One guy, even after I told him they were felt, still did not believe me. He acted like I was lying to him, just to sell him a felt hat!!

Can't recall if I ever did not not.

I have had at least one request for a leather hat. Of course, I don't make em'

Leather is for jackets and boots!!! And whips. Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:39 am

Fedora wrote: Leather is for jackets and boots!!! And whips. Fedora

...a wallets to carry the money to pay for the correct felt hats from our hatmakers....

Regards! Michaelson

Jones Boy · Post by **Jones Boy** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:42 am

This thread is pure gold!!

Life outside the fishbowl that is COW!

Cheers
Jonesy

MustangLoverMex · Post by **MustangLoverMex** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:51 am

DoubleOhSeven wrote: Like the one guy was so used to seeing the DP fedora, he thought that's the way Indy's hat is supposed to look. I'd never make it as a hatter, because I'd be the one to say, nope, let me show you, and then pull up some DVD scenes and a few sign-ons to COW here to prove my point.

I actually did that, I put videos on YouTube and show the FAQ's of Fedoras here on COW, and he was amazed about all the info but still... want the DP model

Regards,
-Alfonso

ichnob · Post by **ichnob** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:45 pm

These are some great stories.

Thanks for sharing.

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:33 pm

I recently received my AB reblock from Steve, asked for Raven, came in after shipping looking like something that was more like one of Steve hats he wore in one of his avatars. I like it.
Thanks Steve
But mine will always have some stiffnes to it, my rabbit is floppy though and thats fine.

Croft.

oh do you have any pins for the ribbon ?

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:10 pm

Indiana Croft wrote: oh do you have any pins for the ribbon ?

The first one who is actualt silly enough to put one of these pins on his AB will get a coockie from me

Great thread guys! About the Dorfman thing: I recently "enlightend" a guy I know about the hat who swore the Dorfman was accurate by simultaniously sending him pics from raiders and my full gear shots I did for Mitch's thread. he was so blown away that I have a feeling he will be joining us shortly

Regards, Geert

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:30 am

Indiana Croft wrote:
oh do you have any pins for the ribbon ?

There's a thought an 'Adventurebilt' pin

Snapbrim76 · Post by **Snapbrim76** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:54 am

I've had the leather comment before! And I must admit, when I was a kid, watching Indy for the first time I thought if was leather... but only until I saw a felt hat in real life and INSTANTLY realized my mistake. It takes some kind of arrogance to insist you're right when all you have to go on is the memory from a 2-D image on a movie screen!

On another ocassion, I was backpacking through Australia in my Akubra and had reached a small farming town in the country where it was common place to see stockmen (Australian cowboys) wearing Akubras - even in the American ten gallon style sometimes... quite an eye-opener. And for those who are unaware, Akubras are very well known in the countryside of Australia. Anyway, one of the locals and I were talking about the hole forming in the pinch of my hat. He said (as if I needed it explaining) "its where you keep pinching it, the leather has worn out." I said "it's not leather, it's felt" and he said "oh, well that's why then. REAL Akubras are leather!" This was in a small town where felt hats were sold in the main street.

I've also had a comment, when wearing a more LC style fedora (which I wanted to remain my 'smart' fedora to wear with a suit). A girl said she liked my Al Capone hat. I wasn't offended because she had at least recognized the style correctly. I replied that it was supposed to be a 'new' Indy hat and here's where the trouble began. She refused to accept that Indy didn't wear some sort of western hat. And after some calm educating on my part she said "ok, but Indy's hat definately didn't have a bow"

I guess all people just hate to be wrong.

P.S. Sorry for going on and on and on...

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:56 am

In Spanish, piel means both leather and fur so I never know which the person is refering to. Also, I would love an AB pin. I have a Penman pin, though its not on either of my Penmans, and think its pretty cool.

Dave

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:03 am

DR Ulloa wrote:In Spanish, piel means both leather and fur so I never know which the person is refering to. Also, I would love an AB pin. I have a Penman pin, though its not on either of my Penmans, and think its pretty cool.

Dave

I had this one customer who had me custom make him a hat he will wear on his wedding day that is coming up this fall. He won't leave the hat in the box to keep it pristine for the wedding.

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:07 am

Steve, I'd like mine floppy too!

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:41 pm

BendingOak wrote:
DR Ulloa wrote:In Spanish, piel means both leather and fur so I never know which the person is refering to. Also, I would love an AB pin. I have a Penman pin, though its not on either of my Penmans, and think its pretty cool.

Dave

I had this one customer who had me custom make him a hat he will wear on his wedding day that is coming up this fall. He won't leave the hat in the box to keep it pristine for the wedding.

Hey, it needs to come out to see light and get some fresh air!

It's been sitting in the box for the last couple months. Man, I cannot wait to wear it!

Dave

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:03 pm

But mine will always have some stiffnes to it, my rabbit is floppy though and thats fine.

Yes, I noticed that Bruce. On it's next reblock, I need to soak it a few days in alcohol to leach some of that shellac out. I don't recall any being this darn stiff, and thought you had put some more shellac in it. I had already pulled it off the block when I noticed how stiff the felt was. It was also a bit taller than I make the Raider hats these days, but did not want a circle around the brim to get worse, from creating a new brim break. Apparently I had created a new one prior, which you can see already. I think I originally made that hat at 5 3/4 open crown, which it actually too tall for your head size.

You CS downsizer is done, by the way. I will ship it back today when I make the postal run. It's alot softer than your Raiders hat I sent back here awhile back.

[quoteThere's a thought an 'Adventurebilt' pin

Indiana Croft wrote:
oh do you have any pins for the ribbon ?

There's a thought an 'Adventurebilt' pin

][/quote]

Please, don't make me regurgitate!!!

Fedora

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:31 pm

Steve, If you would like a AB pin with your logo. I'm all over it for you.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:54 pm

BendingOak wrote:Steve, If you would like a AB pin with your logo. I'm all over it for you.

You know, people would probably like that.
Steve will have to get used to regurgitating

MustangLoverMex · Post by **MustangLoverMex** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:56 pm

RCSignals wrote:
BendingOak wrote:Steve, If you would like a AB pin with your logo. I'm all over it for you.
You know, people would probably like that.
Steve will have to get used to regurgitating

Maybe you could offer it as an "extra"...

Regards,
-Alfonso

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:40 pm

No worries Steve,

I don't recall any being this darn stiff, and thought you had put some more shellac in it. I had already pulled it off the block when I noticed how stiff the felt was.

When I orriginally order this waaaaaaaayy back when, I asked for it to be a little stiffer than usal, as this is what I thought it should be and I didn't like floppy hat. I've learned a lot since then, but this one I still want it a tad stff. Now I casn't wait to get my CS.

Thanks again
Croft

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:42 am

Steve, If you would like a AB pin with your logo. I'm all over it for you.

My friend, thanks, but NO THANKS.

You know, Stetson once used a pin too, on some of their hats. I have one in the shop from an older Stetson. I just mostly look at it.

When I orriginally order this waaaaaaaayy back when, I asked for it to be a little stiffer than usal, as this is what I thought it should be and I didn't like floppy hat. I've learned a lot since then, but this one I still want it a tad stff.

AH, now I understand. I have put extra stiffener in a few hats over the years, but forget who gets it. You would be surprised at the folks that do want a stiffer Indy fedora. Most like it because they don't have to put the creases back into the hat if they run through some low hanging branches of trees. Fedora

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:01 pm

Fedora wrote:
Steve, If you would like a AB pin with your logo. I'm all over it for you.

My friend, thanks, but NO THANKS.

You know, Stetson once used a pin too, on some of their hats. I have one in the shop from an older Stetson. I just mostly look at it.

I agree on the hat pin Fedora, but it would still be cool to have a lapel pin with the AB logo though

It's just such a classy logo

Regards, Geert

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:23 pm

gwyddion wrote:
Fedora wrote:
Steve, If you would like a AB pin with your logo. I'm all over it for you.

My friend, thanks, but NO THANKS.

You know, Stetson once used a pin too, on some of their hats. I have one in the shop from an older Stetson. I just mostly look at it.

I agree on the hat pin Fedora, but it would still be cool to have a lapel pin with the AB logo though It's just such a classy logo

Regards, Geert

I suspect Geert, that's exactly how an AB hat pin would end up being worn by many if not most.

At one time hat pins like this were quite common.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:38 pm

When talking about lapel pins, I was referring to something like this:

You couldn't even put it on a hat if you tried

Regards, Geert

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:46 pm

a stick pin. You can wear those in a tie too.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:55 pm

Well, sometimes the fact that I'm not a native speaker of English shines through: not knowing the right name for the type of pin is one of them I guess

Regards, Geert

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:26 pm

What is the symbol on that pin?
a hat with a plume or a moon rising over a windmill?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:19 pm

Fedora wrote:
Steve, If you would like a AB pin with your logo. I'm all over it for you.

My friend, thanks, but NO THANKS.

You know, Stetson once used a pin too, on some of their hats. I have one in the shop from an older Stetson. I just mostly look at it.

When I orriginally order this waaaaaaaayy back when, I asked for it to be a little stiffer than usal, as this is what I thought it should be and I didn't like floppy hat. I've learned a lot since then, but this one I still want it a tad stff.
AH, now I understand. I have put extra stiffener in a few hats over the years, but forget who gets it. You would be surprised at the folks that do want a stiffer Indy fedora. Most like it because they don't have to put the creases back into the hat if they run through some low hanging branches of trees. Fedora

Syeve, I wasn't thinking for the hat more of a lapel pin.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:54 pm

gwyddion wrote:Well, sometimes the fact that I'm not a native speaker of English shines through: not knowing the right name for the type of pin is one of them I guess

Regards, Geert

Geert, your English is better than most American's English.

Dave

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:35 pm

RCSignals wrote:What is the symbol on that pin?
a hat with a plume or a moon rising over a windmill?

No it's actualy a "Maltese cross" the component of a film projetor that makes movie projection possible. It is the pin I got for working in a cinema for 10 years june 3rd.

Dave, thanks for the compliment

Regards, Geert

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:42 pm

That doesn't look like a Maltese cross. A Maltese cross is something only a firefighter has the honor of wearing.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:11 pm

BendingOak wrote:That doesn't look like a Maltese cross. A Maltese cross is something only a firefighter has the honor of wearing.

It's a replication of the part of a film projector they call "the Malthese coss" It is nothing like the real malthese crosses in appearance, but on the early projectors it did actualy look like one. Since then the actual part changed in appearance, but the name stuck. In projectors the "Malthese cross" turns the fluid motion of the engine of the projector into a jerky one, so one frame can get projected at a time. without this you'd only see a blur of colours on screen.

Regards, Geert

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:22 pm

Thank you Geert, I see it now