Some TN shrunken lamb pics (even MORE)

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:15 pm

Almost every tailor and manufacturer on the planet cuts the chest of the jacket 4” larger than the actual chest measurement of the individual. Occasionally you will find jackets that measure 3” larger, or as much as 5” larger but 95% of the time it is 4” larger.

According to this site: http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/Tuto ... rement.htm

Post by **Holt** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:17 pm

yep, that is right. they call it the millitary cut I think...

why wested dont cut them like that beats me.....

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:53 pm

I was just talking to someone about measurements the other day, funny.

I have a 42 made to measure that is huge on me in the chest. Maybe some people with 44s have them because you fit a 44 in the shoulders and then they are tailored down?

Regarding Ford, I would bet that he is smaller now. Bone structure shrinks as you age, he may be more muscular, but I bet he is smaller overall. The photo doesn't say much.

My dad has been working out for years and is in his 60's, he is lean and muscular but definitely smaller than he used to be. If you saw him in a t-shirt in a photo you would say he looks pretty built, but he would be smaller than he appears.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:27 pm

Kevin Anderson wrote:Yet Tony tells us his jackets front chest measurement was 22". That makes it a size 40. I'm sure RC can confirm this.
In fact, I recall RC posting that some might find it strange that the chest measurement for the Raiders jacket Tony had was 22.5, larger
than the 22 inches of the CS jacket.
Where did this idea of it being a 44 come from? Unless you're using the odd notion that 2x22 inches gives you a size 44?
A skin-tight 44, sure...

That's correct. The jackets are for a size 40 chest. A 42 would be snug and a 44 too tight. A jacket that measures 44" around the chest itself will hardly fit a person's size 44 chest.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:30 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:
Michaelson wrote:Nope. Raiders.

Regards! Michaelson
Yep and 42 in TOD because he had to bulk up for the shirtless scenes !

......and yet we are told the jackets were too loose on him from their pre-workout fitting (of size 40 chest). (remember the experiment sizing them down with smaller lining?)

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:33 pm

Michaelson wrote:I remember in years past Lee Keppler telling me in all his studies and research just how pleased he was to own and wear jackets that were the exact same size that Ford wore in Raiders. Lee wears size 40.

Regards! Michaelson

Ford's Raiders jacket is larger in the chest than the CS jacket. flat measure of 22.5" vs CS 22"

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:42 pm

Michaelson wrote:Speaking for myself, kevin, I'm not going by photos.

Not sure about your 'chart', but I just pulled my G&B Expedition out of my closet this very minute. It measures 22 inches side to side front, 22 inches side to side back. 22 x 2= 44. It's marked size 44T.

I pulled my U. S. Wings VIP out. 22 inches front. 22 inches back, 22 x 2 =44. Their chart marks their 'L' to fit size 44-46.

I just pulled my Wested cloth Raiders out. 22 inches front. 22 inches back. 22 x 2 = 44. It's marked 44.

So, there's 3 manufacturers who match your measurements, and NONE of them come up with a size 40. Two of the jackets are custom, one OTR.

There's no way in the WORLD I can get my carcass in a size 40....well, maybe my leg, but something seems amiss in your chart.

Regards! Michaelson

OK Now I see the problem.

You either need to throw the measure tape you are using away, or show us a video of you taking easurements.

I don't have a G+B, but I have two USWings VIPs. both are Medium and both measure 24" on the flat.

I own two Wested ToD (in the same size as the NH copied) size 40 and both measure 22.5" on the flat.

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:45 pm

Does Pecards cause a tape measure to go bad.....

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:50 pm

Michaelson wrote:
As I've always understood things, you include the 4 inches in the size, NOT subtract it. So, if you have a 40 inch chest with 4 inches of play added, it's a size 44 to the industry, not a size 40. My jackets seem to hold true to that 'theory', and they're made by manufacturers from around the world.

Regards! Michaelson

I don't believe that is correct about industry sizing. However, what you have just said would indicate that Ford's chest size is 40". His Raiders and CS jackets with a flat measurement of 22.5" and 22" are for a 40" chest size.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:18 pm

Sigh. Ok, what ever you say. 'l'll keep my own council from now on.

Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:20 pm

Michaelson wrote:Sigh. Ok.

Michaelson

I can sigh too

See the last few posts in this discussion http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40652

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:22 pm

I used two different tape measures, and a yard stick. I can't change what they measured. In my defense, though, I DID measure before my first cup of coffee today.

I'm glad you can sigh too. Shows you're still breathing and on the right side of the dirt.

Like I said above, it honestly makes no difference to me one way or the other.

If you're looking for a debate, you'll have to go to the folks who made my jacket and marked them as such.

Regards! Michaelson

Ford · Post by **Ford** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:27 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:Im so lost cuz, I spoke to other people with UK made 44's and they measure 24 to 25'' across.same as mine...

and I spoke to a few persons who have Uk made 42's and they measure 23'' across.....

something really weird is going on thats for sure.....

Hi.

I just got a little stung too on that score. After a few emails to Wested they stated their jackets are cut SIX inches over the tagged size, so a 42 like mine measures 24 across (48) and a 44 would be 25.

But if some people measure pit to pit without undoing the side straps that, I think, can deduct half an inch, maybe more, from what you measure.

But yes, they do add 6 inches, not 4, so it's equivalent to buying one size up.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:31 pm

I'm surprised FLATHEAD hasn't weighed in on this. He LOVES these type discussions

Regards! Michaelson

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:36 pm

Thats because he's doing the same over at the thread called 'Wested sizing for beginners'

Regards, Geert

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:38 pm

Ah. Good. Keep him occupied. I don't want him peeling yet another layer of hide off my backside over this topic. I can't spare it at my age.

Regards! Michaelson

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:01 pm

I think a big factor that no-one has mentioned is that you're all assuming that the jackets in the films were sized to fit someone like normal everyday clothing. They're costumes. Fit is tweaked for the right effect. The "normal" idea of allowing for 2" or 4" or 6" in the case of a lot of Westeds doesn't really apply.

I'd go into more detail on the fit of the Ford Nowak on the "right" frame vs. a Wested in order to elaborate why my preferences are as they are, but don't want to start another barney!

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:05 pm

Speaking of TN Raiders jackets, I still think Whisky's is one of the best looking ones I have seen

Regards, Geert

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:07 pm

True Yojimbo. The discussion is also about the size of the jackets themselves. Some think the CS is simply bigger, when by size of the jackets themselves, they are not so different. For any of the I-J movie jackets really

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:14 pm

You betcha. The evidence is there that they are VERY similar, apart from length and cut. Ford has shrunk. Look at the size of his head compared to his body in Dutch's pic!

Also, my understanding / guess at what happened for ToD is that he had a building / bulking stage of bodybuilding before a cutting stage for the shoot. (Very common) Perhaps he was measured when bulked up, then once he was cut, it was "too big", giving that look.

Raskolnikov · Post by **Raskolnikov** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:44 pm

My Nowak CS and Nowak Raiders were made using the same measurements, but the Cs is much roomier and a little bit longer: the CS sleeves are clearly wider, affecting considerably the general fitting of the jacket, specially on the shoulders. Also, looking to the pictures of this last movie, Harrison Ford seems to be wearing the pants higher, giving the impression that the jacket was much longer than what it really was. If you watch both jackets hanging one in front of the other, they seem almost identical at first sight (exception made of the colour) but, once worn, they are two worlds apart, each of them with its own qualities.

Regards,
Rask

Raskolnikov · Post by **Raskolnikov** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:57 pm

This weekend I am going to be very busy but I'll try to find some time

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:31 pm

There is no doubt they feel different, wear and 'hang' different. The cut is different. the CS fits properly on the body more like a conventional jacket. But that isn't the issue of the discussion, it's size measurement of the jackets.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:15 am

Mine is a 40 and measures 21' across
Someone has given me Fords Raiders size from his TN jacket also as 21'
Todd's M measures 22.5' I am told.
Todd's L measures 21 I am told
A 42 ROLA measures 23 1/2

Maybe some people here don't know how to take measurements exactly.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:26 am

PLATON wrote:Mine is a 40 and measures 21' across
Someone has given me Fords Raiders size from his TN jacket also as 21'
Todd's M measures 22.5' I am told.
Todd's L measures 21 I am told
A 42 ROLA measures 23 1/2

Maybe some people here don't know how to take measurements exactly.

Hi Platon. The TN Raiders in Ford's size is 22.5"

The Todd's L I have here actually measures 24" and that's not stretching the jacket out.

21" would be a slim 40.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:34 am

RCSignals wrote:
PLATON wrote:Mine is a 40 and measures 21' across
Someone has given me Fords Raiders size from his TN jacket also as 21'
Hi Platon. The TN Raiders in Ford's size is 22.5"

I can second that - Mine is the same - I'm about a 43" chest and have a snug amount of room in mine. 2" is about right.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:44 am

Ok, as a quick follow up, clear eyed, caffinated, and with glasses washed and clean, I once again pulled out my jackets and tape measures and measured front and back of all three jackets, laid flat from pit to pit, and came up with a solid....

24 inches!!!

So, let this be a lesson to you all. Never measure anything first thing in the morning, and CURSE the day you have to get bifocals.

I apologize for the confusion I dropped to the discussion. I was TOTALLY wrong.

You may now return to your program, already in progress.

Regards! Michaelson

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:12 am

Michaelson,You continue to be an ICON to us all.......( there wasn't any 'Gentleman Jack' involved in that first measurement was there)......

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:47 am

Sadly, no. If there had been, it would have probably measured 48 inches and that would have been from elbow of one jacket to shoulder seam on another jacket.

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:14 pm

Michaelson wrote:Ok, as a quick follow up, clear eyed, caffinated, and with glasses washed and clean, I once again pulled out my jackets and tape measures and measured front and back of all three jackets, laid flat from pit to pit, and came up with a solid....

24 inches!!!

So, let this be a lesson to you all. Never measure anything first thing in the morning, and CURSE the day you have to get bifocals.

I apologize for the confusion I dropped to the discussion. I was TOTALLY wrong.

You may now return to your program, already in progress.

Regards! Michaelson

Thank you thank you.

Post by **Holt** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:56 pm

Thanx Mark.

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:27 pm

Ford wrote:
Indiana Holt wrote:Im so lost cuz, I spoke to other people with UK made 44's and they measure 24 to 25'' across.same as mine...

and I spoke to a few persons who have Uk made 42's and they measure 23'' across.....

something really weird is going on thats for sure.....
Hi.

I just got a little stung too on that score. After a few emails to Wested they stated their jackets are cut SIX inches over the tagged size, so a 42 like mine measures 24 across (48) and a 44 would be 25.

But if some people measure pit to pit without undoing the side straps that, I think, can deduct half an inch, maybe more, from what you measure.

But yes, they do add 6 inches, not 4, so it's equivalent to buying one size up.

Mmmm, eyeeah, well, I've measured mine and get approx. 4 not 6, so go figure.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:00 am

Dutch_jones wrote:
Indiana Holt wrote:Hey Mark. I am so surprized by these measurements. like I was a while ago when we spoke about the exact same thing in an other thread.

this jacket here is a 44 80's cut.

3 of my 44 jackets measured this.This is why I need to have wested downsize the jacket for me....

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g182/ ... wested.jpg
Holt, I checked the jacket I bought from you and it measures 21" across!
also a 44

Is that jacket one Holt said had a armpit to armpit size of 25 inches, Dutch? If so, how could it possibly be 4 inches off his measurement?

Did you measure it as Holt did in the picture, zipped, flat, armpit to armpit?

I'm beginning to think that's half the problem, folks just don't measure properly. You need to be very thorough; measure and measure again.

My jacket from Tony was very precise, every measurement exactly what I'd asked for. I wasn't sure he was going to be so accurate!

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:12 am

My chest measurement is around 38-39 relaxed. I buy 40 off the rack.

Here's me in the 000 jacket.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:56 am

It doesn't look too bad. Sleeves are long of course. It may be a touch large on you but still looks OK. What did you think about the fit?

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:48 pm

RCSignals wrote:It doesn't look too bad. Sleeves are long of course. It may be a touch large on you but still looks OK. What did you think about the fit?

I thought the fit was pretty decent. Chest felt decent with the jacket zipped up, back seemed to drape ok. I might shorten the shoulder seam measurement, and I think I might get the jacket a touch longer on the back because it felt too off the shoulders for me.

This jacket fit me great (other than the sleeves). And it was gorgeous! Don't know who's it is, but it's a beauty.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:04 pm

I'm surprised you didn't make a break for the door with that last one shown above!

Regards! Michaelson

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:28 pm

Michaelson wrote:I'm surprised you didn't make a break for the door with that last one shown above!

Regards! Michaelson

I know! I arrived with the intention of figuring out what to do about a Raiders jacket, and left with nothing ordered. It's my humble opinion that Tony's Last Crusade jacket is his finest offering. While others might critique the SA-ness, he has completely captured the jacket's character! This particular jacket is in CS leather. Han Jones is right.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:31 pm

I know. I have a CS version myself, and it's a fine jacket.

Regards! Michaelson

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:15 pm

Baldwyn wrote:......... I think I might get the jacket a touch longer on the back because it felt too off the shoulders for me.

.......

Remember lengthening the back won't reduce the falling back off the shoulders. The jacket will just be longer. If it's too short for you while falling back, then have it made longer, otherwise I'd leave it. The jacket is going to fall to the back no matter what.

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:52 pm

RCSignals wrote:
Remember lengthening the back won't reduce the falling back off the shoulders. The jacket will just be longer. If it's too short for you while falling back, then have it made longer, otherwise I'd leave it. The jacket is going to fall to the back no matter what.

Actually, after wearing the jacket, and having Tony explain and show me measurements, I feel like I finally grasp what the whole thing is about, and lengthening the back will exactly reduce the falling off the shoulder trick (Tony agreed). The whole thing is when it's said "lengthening the back" or the "back is shorter than the front" everyone thinks the length is taken off the bottom, but it isn't!!! The length is taken off the TOP!

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:57 pm

So Baldwyn, you're talking about moving the collar opening backwards if I'm following you.........or maybe I'm not.......you're not actually trying to make the Raider fit like a normal run of the mill jacket are you......you lose the mystique.......

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:09 pm

Baldwyn wrote:Actually, after wearing the jacket, and having Tony explain and show me measurements, I feel like I finally grasp what the whole thing is about, and lengthening the back will exactly reduce the falling off the shoulder trick (Tony agreed). The whole thing is when it's said "lengthening the back" or the "back is shorter than the front" everyone thinks the length is taken off the bottom, but it isn't!!! The length is taken off the TOP!

Could you please explain a little more about what Tony said on this? I'm still trying to grasp how the top part of a jacket could have been built so oddly!

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:10 pm

Hatch wrote:So Baldwyn, you're talking about moving the collar opening backwards if I'm following you.........or maybe I'm not.......you're not actually trying to make the Raider fit like a normal run of the mill jacket are you......you lose the mystique.......

Naw, the back of the collar is cut lower on the Raiders jacket. (Tony showed me this by neatly arranging a CS jacket and the 000 jacket, and illustrating how the back of the collar is lower, while the bottoms of both jackets are lined up with the front). I'm going for something in between, because there's no way I can pull off Raven Bar pose like Holt or Yojimbo in the 000 jacket (my bad posture makes all my jackets fall off the shoulder

)

Tony showed me his new personal Raiders jacket, and I loooovveeeee the leather sooooo much.

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:15 pm

Baldwyn, shhhhhhhh.....don't let the secrets out,you never know who's listening and taking notes.....

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:17 pm

Baldwyn wrote:Tony showed me his new personal Raiders jacket, and I loooovveeeee the leather sooooo much.

Oooh. Do tell... ...me via PM.

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Yeah Baldwyn , keep all of this kind of info on PM's to us....

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:33 pm

Baldwyn wrote:
Hatch wrote:So Baldwyn, you're talking about moving the collar opening backwards if I'm following you.........or maybe I'm not.......you're not actually trying to make the Raider fit like a normal run of the mill jacket are you......you lose the mystique.......
Naw, the back of the collar is cut lower on the Raiders jacket. (Tony showed me this by neatly arranging a CS jacket and the 000 jacket, and illustrating how the back of the collar is lower, while the bottoms of both jackets are lined up with the front). I'm going for something in between, because there's no way I can pull off Raven Bar pose like Holt or Yojimbo in the 000 jacket (my bad posture makes all my jackets fall off the shoulder )

.......

LOL now people will think the falling back effect created falsely that way to make the collar look like it's hanging back. It isn't. i can see the quotes being made

The whole jacket falls to the back, and will repeatedly do so even it's pulled back to sit in the proper place on the shoulders. It falls to the back even if it is made longer. Now if he makes an adjustment to the pattern to make it behave more like the CS jacket, that's a different story.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:52 pm

Did you do like Indy G, and have one made while you waited, or have you chosen a leather that has to be brought in?

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:25 am

RCSignals wrote:Did you do like Indy G, and have one made while you waited, or have you chosen a leather that has to be brought in?

I did the unthinkable. I left without ordering a jacket.

I was running my first 100 mile race the day after, and needed to leave to get settled/chill for a bit since I still had a 4 hour drive (ideally get to race checkin the night before so I didn't have to deal with it a 5am; I didn't make it), so I left before settling on something. But also, I told myself, no-finish, no-jacket.