Nowak Raiders jacket - Number 81 *UPDATED PICS*

orb · Post by **orb** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:00 am

Kt Templar wrote:BTW, do all the TN 'Indy 1s' have brass/gilt zippers?

Normally the TN Raiders jacket comes with a nickel YKK zipper. It may very often an opticial illusion when the zipper appears Brass. I also thought that on CK first Raiders Jacket. But that Brown Leather tone makes it looks more Brass.

Regards

orb

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:01 am

BTW How's your "Authentic" lamb looking these days according to Peter?

This was not needed.
We are not attacking any vendors. We're just discussing if some details are correct or not.
Do you think that if Peter makes a jacket with wrong details we'll applaud him? or 'crucify' him so to speak?

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:02 am

Kt Templar wrote:BTW, do all the TN 'Indy 1s' have brass/gilt zippers?

Do all Wested's have aluminium zippers that break and have to be painted on a film set?

How many Wested Raiders jackets have D rings?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:06 am

Is your TN1 zipper silver or brass?

Are you pocket flaps doubled up like old G&B used to be?

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:07 am

PLATON wrote:I guess this is some of the details than TN 'corrected'.

Well, you know, there's been a fair bit of that lately. ~cough~ Correcting stuff.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:10 am

Dutch_jones wrote:In your case it probably means adding stuff? because the pocket flap on the raiders jacket is 0.5-1 inch shorter than on the nowak replica ! Now how did that happen :O

Dutch, compare the Hawaii bending over shot to the pocket flaps on Peter's latest beauty.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:12 am

Dutch_jones wrote:
RCSignals wrote:
Dutch_jones wrote: In your case it probably means adding stuff? because the pocket flap on the raiders jacket is 0.5-1 inch shorter than on the nowak replica ! Now how did that happen :O
Oh I forgot Dutch, you own a screen used Raiders jacket.

I guess Chris will have to sell this one because it isn't right.
I don't personally but I know someone who does.

Oh good then you'll post photos of it and take it's measurements for us!

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:16 am

RCSignals wrote:
Oh good then you'll post photos of it and take it's measurements for us!

I'm sure he'll post as many photos as we have seen of the smuggled jacket.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:19 am

Kt Templar wrote:
RCSignals wrote:
Oh good then you'll post photos of it and take it's measurements for us!
I'm sure he'll post as many photos as we have seen of the smuggled jacket.

'Smuggled'? Do tell

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:23 am

PLATON wrote:
BTW How's your "Authentic" lamb looking these days according to Peter?
This was not needed.
We are not attacking any vendors. We're just discussing if some details are correct or not.
Do you think that if Peter makes a jacket with wrong details we'll applaud him? or 'crucify' him so to speak?

I wasn't attacking Peter, Platon. Why would you make that assumption?

Platon, I believe you that you would do so. I actually respect your tenacity on that. But do understand I was also discussing accuracy - just of a different aspect of the jacket.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:27 am

Kt Templar wrote:Is your TN1 zipper silver or brass?

Are you pocket flaps doubled up like old G&B used to be?

Who are you asking, KT? If it's me I don't know what the G&B used to do.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:33 am

Kt Templar wrote:the smuggled jacket.

~wiping tears from my eyes~

Oh man, KT. Either it's worth copying or it's not. Either it's not "real" or it's "smuggled"? Do elaborate further of your tales of vendors breaking "smuggling" laws. I mean, are we talking Millennium Falcon style or what?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:36 am

Yojimbo Jones wrote:
Kt Templar wrote:Is your TN1 zipper silver or brass?

Are you pocket flaps doubled up like old G&B used to be?
Who are you asking, KT? If it's me I don't know what the G&B used to do.

G&B changed the way they made their pocket flaps because they didn't flex in a screen like way, 'double turning' them in and stitching seemed to make them too thick and stiff. Tony seems to have made Chris's like G&B used to.

on the zipper front I'm actually asking slightly bigger question. Should be review our thoughts on silver zippers v brass. I don't know if Tony is supplying silver or brass. Chris's one on this jacket looks brass in these shots to me.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:43 am

Kt Templar wrote:
on the zipper front I'm actually asking slightly bigger question. Should be review our thoughts on silver zippers v brass. I don't know if Tony is supplying silver or brass. Chris's one on this jacket looks brass in these shots to me.

Review our thoughts on zipper colour related to screen used or just practical jacket use?

is it not established the screen jackets had silver coloured or aluminum zippers that they decided to paint brass?
Practically and aesthetically speaking brass looks good on a brown jacket. Chris will have to answer what his zip is

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:46 am

Kt Templar wrote:G&B changed the way they made their pocket flaps because they didn't flex in a screen like way, 'double turning' them in and stitching seemed to make them too thick and stiff. Tony seems to have made Chris's like G&B used to.

on the zipper front I'm actually asking slightly bigger question. Should be review our thoughts on silver zippers v brass. I don't know if Tony is supplying silver or brass. Chris's one on this jacket looks brass in these shots to me.

Nah mate, in all seriousness my Nowak pockets are thin enough to do that.

VP · Post by VP » Mon May 25, 2009 6:54 am

I have a bad feeling about this thread.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:55 am

We're playing nice, mostly...

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:01 am

Bottom line is, from the screenshots, the flaps don't seem to have the 'double turning' G&B used to have and that TN made for Chris (and for others maybe).

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:06 am

Kt Templar wrote:We're playing nice, mostly...

You betcha KT. All in good fun.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:10 am

PLATON wrote:Bottom line is, from the screenshots, the flaps don't seem to have the 'double turning' G&B used to have and that TN made for Chris (and for others maybe).

I will play, Platon. What do you mean? You mean like the thin unfinished/unhemmed leather on the back of Wested pockets? (not being sarcastic, btw)

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:16 am

Yojimbo Jones wrote:
PLATON wrote:Bottom line is, from the screenshots, the flaps don't seem to have the 'double turning' G&B used to have and that TN made for Chris (and for others maybe).
I will play, Platon. What do you mean? You mean like the thin unfinished/unhemmed leather on the back of Wested pockets? (not being sarcastic, btw)

If it is SA and it folds right. Yes.

The NH ToD flaps are made that way too. BTW.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:28 am

Kt Templar wrote: If it is SA and it folds right. Yes.
The NH ToD flaps are made that way too. BTW.

Sorry man, I just don't see it in the caps.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:06 am

Yojimbo Jones wrote:
Kt Templar wrote: If it is SA and it folds right. Yes.
The NH ToD flaps are made that way too. BTW.
Sorry man, I just don't see it in the caps.

Go and dig out the photo Peter posted of the underside of the flap to show the snaps on the original, think it shows it there.

Post by **Holt** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:09 am

allright. just logged on and read the whole thread.

keep it cool in here.

consider this warning numbero uno!

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:16 am

Kt Templar wrote:
Yojimbo Jones wrote:
Kt Templar wrote: If it is SA and it folds right. Yes.
The NH ToD flaps are made that way too. BTW.
Sorry man, I just don't see it in the caps.
Go and dig out the photo Peter posted of the underside of the flap to show the snaps on the original, think it shows it there.

On the NH jacket? But that was a different jacket by a different manufacturer on a different film?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:24 am

Like this:

Very soft flexible pocket flap.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:28 am

Holt, we 're all civil here.

On the NH jacket? But that was a different jacket by a different manufacturer on a different film?

So you assume that whoever made the TOD jacket did not see any original ROTLA? He just made it from his imagination based on stories he heard from others who have seen it? Or he just watched the movie? Or that he didn't bother to 'correct' the mistakes? Or that he saw the good 'double turn' good construction the original ROTLA jacket had and he said, 'oh what the ####, I better do it the sloppy way' ???

Or is it OK to assume that Peter did only the originals with 'double turn' and then changed to the sloppy job flaps they have today? Please be reminded that the 'double turn' should more difficult and time consuming to make and under the time limitations for delivery of the jackets I don't think it was an option for Peter.

But anyway, I am open to the possibility that the original jacket had 'double turn' flaps.
Please let us see the supportive screen grabs. Or do you insist that we just take someone's word for it again?

Btw does _ remember how the flaps were in the jacket he examined?

I have no doubt that it maybe be better constructed, more practical, or even better looking the way TN does the flaps, but is it SA?

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:30 am

??? What is that?

I do have to say though, speaking of flaps, I really do like the press studs on the Nowak - they look just like the ones in this picture.

Post by **Holt** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:33 am

PLATON wrote:Holt, we 're all civil here.

in your opinion or my opinion?

believe me when I say this thread can easily be pulled of the tracks by the mods. it has its potential.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:38 am

Yojimbo Jones wrote:??? What is that?

I do have to say though, speaking of flaps, I really do like the press studs on the Nowak - they look just like the ones in this picture.

The flap is soft and is tucked into the pocket, with the thick stiffer pocket flap it less less likely to do that.

eg:

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:40 am

Holt,

But I didn't even get the time to say "it is short" yet.

Just kidding.

Despite the disagreements, we still enjoy this thread and although I respect the mods judgement, it's not like we started cursing or anything...

Besides, I think peope are interested to hear some arguments about how the pocket flaps should be. Aren't you?

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:42 am

PLATON wrote:Holt, we 're all civil here.

On the NH jacket? But that was a different jacket by a different manufacturer on a different film?
So you assume that whoever made the TOD jacket did not see any original ROTLA? /etc/ Or do you insist that we just take someone's word for it again?

That argument has to run both ways, Platon.

PLATON wrote: I have no doubt that it maybe be better constructed, more practical, or even better looking the way TN does the flaps, but is it SA?

SA is inconclusive re the inside of the flaps(!) I can't believe it has come to this - seriously? But if there's any abiguity, of course I'd take the one that just flat out looks nicer but is still not inconsistent with what we see in these shots.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:43 am

The flap is soft and is tucked into the pocket, with the thick stiffer pocket flap it less less likely to do that.

KT, not only it is tucked, but we can see that some part (the middle part) of it is tucked while the edges are still out, so it is folded like in two spots. Now THAT is 'less likely' to do with the stiffer pocket flap.

Post by **Holt** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:44 am

Holt,

But I didn't even get the time to say "it is short" yet.

Just kidding.

I say it for you. it is short! your the ''long'' guy remember?

serious though, there is not allways cursing needed to have a thread closed.

and of course Im interested in this pocket flap discussion.

caryy on, but keep it cool, thats all Im saying.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:44 am

PLATON wrote:Holt,

But I didn't even get the time to say "it is short" yet.

Platon, you are dead set legend.

At least give him the dignity of saying it's short, Holt!

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:46 am

Kt Templar wrote: The flap is soft and is tucked into the pocket, with the thick stiffer pocket flap it less less likely to do that.

Mine could do that quite easily. Its thin / tough / pliable.

Post by **Holt** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:47 am

even my goatskin does that without any problem at all.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:54 am

Yojimbo Jones wrote:
Kt Templar wrote: The flap is soft and is tucked into the pocket, with the thick stiffer pocket flap it less less likely to do that.
Mine could do that quite easily. Its thin / tough / pliable.

Lets see it, has to be just like the capture though

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:02 am

Indiana Holt wrote:
I say it for you. it is short! your the ''long'' guy remember?

That's what I keep telling him!

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:05 am

Dutch_jones wrote:
Yojimbo Jones wrote:
Kt Templar wrote: The flap is soft and is tucked into the pocket, with the thick stiffer pocket flap it less less likely to do that.
Mine could do that quite easily. Its thin / tough / pliable.
Lets see it, has to be just like the capture though

I have to go to Tunisia? Aww maaannn...!

Didn't you say your friend had one? Surely you could play with his. Besides, I already went through all of this with my last photo shoot. It's funny how some people only want to see certain things. Could you please take a shot of your jacket in the Cobra shot for comparison, and I'll be happy to oblige.

Raskolnikov · Post by **Raskolnikov** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:44 am

I am sure it has more to do with the thickness of the leather than anything else. I have checked it right now and both my Wested and TN Raiders have exactly the same flap configuration. There are no differences at all, apart from the shape, TN's being much more scalloped; not even in the way they are stitched. Yet, my Wested lamb behaves exactly as in the pictures while my TN goatskin tends to be stiffer.
I never had in my hands a shrunken lamb Raiders, but I believe that this hide is more substantial than common lambskin.
In any case, Yohimbo says that the flaps behave like the ones in the movie, and I don't see any reason not to believe him.

By the way, beautiful jacket Chris.

Regards,
Rask

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon May 25, 2009 10:14 am

Rask what you just said means that your TN pocket flaps have different stitching than Chris'
Correct?

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Mon May 25, 2009 11:01 am

I agree entirely Rask, it's the leather thickness. And if you really want the crinkled pocket flap look, Todd's is right on the mark. Tony makes his pocket flaps a bit more substantial, and also stiffer. While you can tuck them into the pocket, they push out quite a bit. That said, they'll break in too if you keep at it and get dragged behind a truck and so forth.

As with most things leather, the trick is getting something that is newly made to look well worn. Tony's jacket will certainly do that, but not right out of the box like a Todd's because Todd's standard leather is thinner. We tend to get impatient, but in the long-haul, if you tuck Tony's flaps in and leave them that way, and wear it a bunch, you'll end up with the exact same effect.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Mon May 25, 2009 11:14 am

Is this jacket going to be copied by Wested? If not, why the fuss over the pockets? Wested has it's own "hero" jacket now, so look to that one for the proper SA specs.

Some of you guys who are so critical NEVER show your personal jackets becasuse you must not enjoy them if you are so hung-up over details you THINK you see or don't see in other's photos. You think each jacket is going to match perfectly with every screen cap you pull up? Maybe in Fantasyland. Good lord, the same guys will focus on the smallest item and go nuts with it trying to make an issue over thin air. You can't just rely on photos.

You can get whatever zipper you want on your jacket - color and size - or ask to get was was on the original. This has been discussed. I got an oversized nickel on my fisrt one, because that's the look I wanted, and the same will be arriving on my second one this week.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Mon May 25, 2009 11:39 am

Dutch_jones wrote:
Have you ever seen a movie called Raiders of the Lost Ark? Because if you did then you'd know that Platon is right. The pockets on the original are very subtle and thin and blend in. Can't see how he missed that on the original along with the correct strap hardware ?

Dutch, no malice intended but it's this kind of comment that gets these things off the rails, as it were. There's been others too in all fairness. I'm not trying to play a moderator on TV here but I'd like to have one of these threads stay open so we can discuss this stuff. There's obviously some passionate opinions here but we can debate this stuff without getting personal.

I've got a Wested, a G and B, and a TN I so I'd be glad to take some comparison photos later on (I've got to open a pool here in just a sec--the two women [one 38, one 3] "bosses" of the house are getting antsy) of the pocket flaps. Although, from first glance (and maybe I'm just looking at it with amateurish eyes here) they all appear to have similar construction. My Wested's flaps won't fold like those in the screen grabs but it's a horsehide jacket, neither would my G and B (we all know about their tough goat hide). My TN I would fold like that as will my Coyles custom which is made out of a thin, tough cowhide. I submit that a lot of this folding we're speaking is based a lot on the type of leather used and the amount of abuse the leather has taken. If you take a pocket flap and really rough it up to distress it, it's going to be more pliable than if not. And let me head something off at the pass, yes, Tony distresses the jacket if you want him to, but I'm sure it's not with to the same degree that Nadoolman did.

And my TN I zipper is silver, although it can take on a brass hue in certain lighting.

*And I'm just editing to add that I see several others beat me to the leather thickness angle. I got excited and posted before reading the whole thing!

*

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Mon May 25, 2009 12:19 pm

Why placate people at this point? I'm all for talking about the finer points of jackets but I don't believe the questions are honest anymore. If someone has questions about zipper color, how something is sewn, color, whatever, why not take the time to contact the vendor and ask them directly? The answers given here will never be satisfying enough and has been shown many times over.

Raskolnikov · Post by **Raskolnikov** » Mon May 25, 2009 2:54 pm

PLATON wrote:Rask what you just said means that your TN pocket flaps have different stitching than Chris'
Correct?

Not at all, because I don't know how CK's flaps are sewn, and, honestly, I can't tell you just watching those pictures. But I guess they are the same, why wouldn't they? All I know is that the pocket flaps in my TN have the same configuration as my Wested's: both are folded and sewn the same way, and the only difference between them is the thickness of their leather (apart from the quality of the stitching, which is far superior in the Nowak).

crismans wrote:I submit that a lot of this folding we're speaking is based a lot on the type of leather used and the amount of abuse the leather has taken.

I totally agree with you, Crismans.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:07 pm

PLATON wrote:
The flap is soft and is tucked into the pocket, with the thick stiffer pocket flap it less less likely to do that.
KT, not only it is tucked, but we can see that some part (the middle part) of it is tucked while the edges are still out, so it is folded like in two spots. Now THAT is 'less likely' to do with the stiffer pocket flap.

Again Platon, Have you had a nowak Raider in hand to see function this for yourself?

Read back, the flaps are copied exactly.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:14 pm

Raider S wrote:Why placate people at this point? I'm all for talking about the finer points of jackets but I don't believe the questions are honest anymore. If someone has questions about zipper color, how something is sewn, color, whatever, why not take the time to contact the vendor and ask them directly? The answers given here will never be satisfying enough and has been shown many times over.

Because you aren't allowed to say 'call Tony'

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:17 pm

Raskolnikov wrote:
PLATON wrote:Rask what you just said means that your TN pocket flaps have different stitching than Chris'
Correct?
Not at all, because I don't know how CK's flaps are sewn, and, honestly, I can't tell you just watching those pictures. But I guess they are the same, why wouldn't they? All I know is that the pocket flaps in my TN have the same configuration as my Wested's: both are folded and sewn the same way, and the only difference between them is the thickness of their leather (apart from the quality of the stitching, which is far superior in the Nowak).

........

So Rask, it sounds like your Wested flaps are constructed different from other peoples Wested flaps.

Maybe Dutch can start a thread just about flaps and leave Chris's thread to be about his jacket.