Help me identify my close enough

[crismans]

Here is my S and W that I've had for a long time (long before I became such a big fan of Indy's gear somewhat independently of his character). It's been passed down through several generations. I know it's a .38 and that the cylinder was rebored to handle .38 special loads by Cogswell and Harris of London. But I'm not sure of the specific model number and would love to know. Thanks!

[Canasta]

How funny,
I recently bought a s&w Model 10 with a 4 inch barrel just like this one and it too was rebored to handle .38 special by Cogswell and Harris of London. It's stamped on the side.
The only difference is the grips are without the medallion and the bluing is more brown than black due to it's Canadian origins. (Don't ask me why).

Chris

[crismans]

So it is a model 10? Thanks for letting me know. I was thinking such but wasn't sure.

Cogswell and Harris certainly got around.

[Indiana Jeff]

Great looking gun! Looks like it's been well maintained all these years.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Indiana Dymond]

I'm only guessing but is it possable that Cogswell and Harris bought up war surplus .38/200 British service S&W's(sometimes known as the S&W victory model),wich is the S&W military and police model (known as the model 10 after the war)and re bored and re finnished and sold them on?

Most of the early ones were bougth from Smith&Wesson by the British goverment,then later supplied by the US under "lend lease".They can be identified by having "US PROPERTY" stamped on the frame.

.38/200 was the British service 200grain load of the time and is about the same as a standard .38S&W and .38 colt new police cartridges that will also fit.

[Alkali Jones]

Hey All,

I guess the Bapty front sight is not so anachronistic as we were led to believe!

Dan S

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Could I just ask a 'silly' question
Appart from the type of load taken, and possibly differences in the length of barrell, is there any real difference between the S&W 'Victory model', 'Military and Police model' and 'Model 10'. Assuming the barrell length is the same are they identical to look at? If not, what are the differences? I've tried flicking between threads where the different guns are posted, and Google immages, but have not been able to satisfy myself one way or the other, they LOOK the same to my untrained eye. However when I look at the marvellous picture above I think 'That's Indy's gun!'.... when it isn't

[binkmeisterRick]

As I recall, the Victory, Military and Police, and Model 10 are all the same gun. Any changes would be minor. The Victory came with plain wood grips.

Victory:


Military and Police:


Model 10:


Upon doing a basic image search, the M&P and Model 10 are often described as the same gun. The noticeable changes I've seen have been in grips, finish, and sights. But as you can see, all the above look like the same gun. That's because they pretty much are.

If your gun was a lend/lease or military gun, then it would have additional stamps on various parts of the gun, including the barrel and the body. I'm not seeing any on yours, which makes me think that your gun was n0t a wartime weapon.

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Thanks Bink, Very kind. Its great to see them all together

[crismans]

Mine does have some additional stamping on the barrel (I'm also thinking the body, but I'm not sure without looking at the gun). It also has a hole for a lanyard ring (I don't know if that points to military use or not--I suspect it's inconclusive). I'll take/post some better pictures after the Rugrat goes to sleep.

And a big thanks for helping me decipher which gun I have.

[binkmeisterRick]

crismans, if you can get detailed macro pictures of all the stampings, that would be great. It would helps us figure out the history of your gun!

[crismans]

After looking at the stampings, I think I've probably got a non-military version. Here's the extra stamping on the barrel:



The bottom stamping looks like the stamping saying that Cogswell and Harris did the conversion so I'm thinking it was stamped there and refers to the conversion (of course, I could be totally wrong ). The only other markings are Smith and Wesson on the other side of the barrel, the S and W logo and Made in the USA on the frame.

Unfortunately, they didn't do a very good job with the conversion. The gun is very, very solid, but they've bored out the cylinder a little too much when converting it to a .38 special so that it cracks the casings when it fires. If I planned to shoot it much, I'd have to have a new cylinder installed.

[binkmeisterRick]

I wouldn't fire it AT ALL if it has such issues! It's simply not worth the risk if the gun isn't tight and in 100% proper working order.

As for the markings, I think yours is probably a civilian gun. If it were military or lend/lease, there would be specific markings on it to indicate it was such.

[crismans]

I wouldn't fire it AT ALL if it has such issues! It's simply not worth the risk if the gun isn't tight and in 100% proper working order.

You're absolutely right, of course. I phrased myself wrong as I haven't fired it since I discovered the issue. I have contacted a gunsmith about it and will probably have the cylinder replaced. Thanks for all the help in identifying it.

[binkmeisterRick]

WHEW! I'd sure hate to see you wind up because of it! I'm glad you stopped when you noticed the issue. It's also a good reason why you should have a gun checked out by a competent gunsmith before firing it. I inherited a WWII Enfield .303 rifle that I looked forward to shooting with, but I had it checked out before that and discovered it had serious headspace issues, which meant MY head space could have issues if I tried to fire it. I opted to keep it for display.

[Michaelson]

The M&P Smiths were called long action revolvers and Model 10's were 'updated' models that had the 'short action' that all Smith's have today. The short action has a faster lockup, and not the silky smooth trigger of the old long action Smiths.

Yours would have invaribly been a long action, as the short action didn't make it's appearance until after WW2, or early '50's. The short action was/is MUCH more popular with law enforcement due to its faster lockup, but the long action trigger VERY much desired by target shooters.

As has already been said above, if it's cracking cases, do NOT shoot the gun. I'm not sure what your gunsmith is going to charge you to re-cylinder the gun and then time it in, but I'd think it would be almost cost prohibitive considering the guns age and metalurgy involved. You'd almost be better off retiring that one as a valued family heirloom and just investing in a newer and stronger version.

At least that's what I'd do if I were in like position (and have done so in similar situations). These revolvers were made in the millions (literally), VERY easy to find, and are very inexpensive.

Regards! Michaelson

[crismans]

Good advice. I think it probably is time to retire it. It can have a new lease on life as my Indy display pistol.

[Michaelson]

Excellent decision, in my opinion.

Let's face it, it deserves it's hard earned retirement.

Regards !Michaelson