With the recent identification of Indy's gun used in the car chase as being a Colt Official Police 4 inch .38 special revolver I decided to check on the other guns used in the opening Club Obi Wan sequence. I discovered that both Chen and Kao Kan each had their own handguns. I had been a bit confused and thought that there was only one gun, the Nickle Webley Mk III used by Chen to shoot Indy's partner Wu Han. This gun has been discussed and documented here on this forum. I had thought the gun held by Kao Kan was the same gun but with a closer inspection I discovered that it is not the same Webley MkIII as used by Chen.
Too me it looks like the gun that Kao Ken is using is a Smith & Wesson 32 Safety with a 3 1/2 inch barrel in .32 S&W caliber. Although it looks similar to the Webley Mk. III, you can see that the front sight is different. Another shot shows the screen used gun with white colored grips and not black hard rubber grips as was standard. Perhaps Stag or Mother of Pearl. That shot shows the gun lying on the ground after Indy punches Kao Ken out. While on the ground you can see the distinctive "hump" of the frame at the back of the grip. I can't do a screen grab of that shot so if someone could provide it that would be great! I've also compaired freeze frame shots of the gun from the DVD with some gun books I have and I'm almost 100% sure it is a Smith & Wesson 32 Safety with a 3 1/2 inch barrel in .32 S&W caliber.
Here are some photos I do have so please take a look and comment on what you think!!
Last edited by Indiana Bond on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:55 am, edited 5 times in total.
Here is a better comparrison photo. To determine it was a S&W 32 Safety, I freeze framed my DVD player and compaired it to photos in my "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms". Then compaired it to numerous photos from GunBroker and AuctionArms to determine it is a 3 1/2 barrell. Also confirmed it was a 32 and not a 38 by the cylinder length, flute length, trigger gaurd shape, and the length and shape of the frame below the barrel and just in front of the pivot point. The other freeze frame I got on my DVD player shows the gun laying on the floor. In that shot you can see the 90 degree angle of frame hump at the back of the frame above the grips. This feature is only seen on the 32's. The 38's have a more rounded frame.
If someone could post a screen grab of the gun on the floor I can make another photo comparison. It is the scene in which Indy punches Kao Kan to the floor and he drops the gun. The second to the last frame of that scene is the best one that shows all the detail.
The picture comparison below does show many of the identifying characteristics I describe above. And if you compare it to the many other top break revolvers I have compaired it to using the Flayderman's Guide you would also conclude that this is a 100% match.
Uhm...one little snag - it may be a S&W clone - it seems that there were similar guns manufactured by Oliver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works of Fitchburg, Mass.
Yes there were many gun makers making similar topbreak handguns at the time. H&R, Iver Johnson, Marlin, American Arms, etc. A mater of fact I have an H&R .38 hammerless topbreak that is very similar. The Flayderman's guide documents them all pretty well, and there are slight diferences in all of them. To my eye the S&W 32 Safety model matches closer than anything else I have seen. Small details such as curvatures of the frame, shape of the trigger gaurd, screw placement, length dimensions all add up and point to the S&W 32 Safety.
Now if we could only get someone to post a screen grab of when the gun is lying on the floor I would be able to point out a few more details that point to it being the S&W.
Is it just the perspective or does the cylinder look different in the screen grab than it does in the comparison picture? It seems to me that there are three flutes on the screen grab, but only two flutes on the comp pic. The gun, of course, looks like a dead ringer, but could it be a different caliber? Or maybe a different shot capacity? (Five instead of six shots?) Also, (and I may be imagining this) does the barrel seem thicker? (Larger caliber?) Like i said, it could be an illusion.
I am so impressed with you ability to find this stuff out and post such good clarifying pictures. Keep it up!
The cylinder is one of the key areas I used to make the identification. I think what you are seeing is just the perspective of the slightly different angle of the 2 photos. All these type of revolvers where 5 shot including the 32s and 38s. This being a 5 shot revolver puts the flutes of the cylinder above and below the 90 degree perpendicular line of the gun. Also one flute will line up directly with the bottom of the gun. If it was a 6 round cylinder the flutes would be lined up at 90 degrees to the perpendicular. Also you would see 3 flutes on each side not just two as we see on this gun.
The clue to the size of the gun is to look at the trigger gaurd in comparison to the gun. Trigger gaurds have to be about the same size on all guns so that we can get our finger in there! We see that in this revolver the trigger gaurd looks a bit large compaired to the gun itself. This gives us the clue that it is a smaller caliber 5 shot type. Basically what is considered a "pocket pistol".
Thanks for all your comments and your close examinations of the evidence. Asking these questions and examining what we have to work with in close detail will only help in making a positive identification. Keep up the good work everyone!!
Last edited by Indiana Bond on Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kao Kan's revolver is in fact a S & W .32 nickel plated with PEARL GRIPS. It was rented from Bapty's along with Chen's Webley. At the moment we are working on discerning which S&W in the armory was the exact one used, as a portion of Bapty's documenting paper work for many of their firearms has been lost.
I purchased in 2007 and still own the .38 Webley Mk. III Commercial Contract Revolver that Chen uses and there has been a complete historical write-up with photos done on it which will be a part of the IndyGear web site in the near future. By the way this particular Webley used does not nor never had a lanyard ring so the pic used on the movie firearms database is incorrect.
Last edited by Curator Rick on Wed May 06, 2009 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks for the confirmation on my research!! The only thing I really can't figure out for sure is if it's a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd model of the 32 safety. Perhaps your documentation will disclose that.
I was planning to bid on the revolver pictured below as it looks like a perfect match. The revolver sold for over $500!! The auction ended today but unfortunately since I just purchased a Tokarev and a P38 it just was not in my budget.
Thanks for that info and be sure to share whatever else you have!!
Well, I just went ahead and won this guy on GunBroker. Will be looking for some pearl grips so that it will be just like Kao Ken's revolver.
My Indy gun collection is slowly filling out. Unfortunately the 3 remaining handguns I'd like to acquire are all quite expensive. The Luger P08, the Mauser C96 "Broomhandle", and the .38 Webley Mk. III Commercial Contract Revolver. Guess I just need to start saving the pennies and keep searching for a good deal!!
We see that in this revolver the trigger gaurd looks a bit large compaired to the gun itself. This gives us the clue that it is a smaller caliber 5 shot type. Basically what is considered a "pocket pistol".
