Hat ettiquette

Caber · Post by **Caber** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:47 am

What is the proper Hat ettiquette for a fedora . When i go out some times and i hold a door open for a lady or somthing like that. I will usaly give the front of my brim a tug like they did in the old days . The girls end up giggiling a little and I end up feeling like a dork or a nerd . Does this happn to you ? Also what else is good hat ettiquette ?

Adventure Dog · Post by **Adventure Dog** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:20 am

Take it off when you entire a building.
Don't wear it during church.
General rules of wearing a fedora are generally the same rules of being a gentleman.

Keep up holding doors open! The giggling won't stop, but you'll learn to appreciate it in a way.

Caber · Post by **Caber** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:33 am

ya I dont wear it in church but i usually dont take it off when i go in a store or somthing like that cuz my hair is shaggy and it gives me realy bad hat hair.Usually when i'm at a place where I won't be wearing my hat I carry it in with me . Then when I leave I will wear it out but not before

Anything else I nead to know

WhiteBull · Post by **WhiteBull** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:49 am

Down here, a gentleman removes his hat at the dinner table, but I rarely see this in restaurants for some reason. I don't know if it's because there's nowhere to set it or if they eat while wearing the 10-gallon hat at home too.

Russian Raider · Post by **Russian Raider** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:55 am

As i recall you should take off a hat at the dining table, when intering elevator or at a living room. But not in the shopping mall and such.

A.J. Cairo · Post by **A.J. Cairo** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:45 am

In the Army we're taught to always remove our headgear when entering any building with a roof. I tend to stick to that in and out of uniform.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:46 am

Russian Raider wrote:As i recall you should take off a hat at the dining table, when intering elevator or at a living room. But not in the shopping mall and such.

Yes. Generally, it's okay to leave it on in any "common" area. This includes the restaurant bar ( but yes, take it off when you get to the table ). I've always heard elevators, and I've always adhered to that rule, but in old movies the guys don't usually take their hats off in there. Wear it in the "common" areas of an office building, but take it off when you enter an office, etc...
There are books and junk, and everyone's got there opinion ( this is mine - and I think it's well informed ). U.S. military guys doff their hats ( covers - Marines ) every time they go indoors, so those habits tend to carry over into civilian life.
Of all the rules, the one I try to adhere to most is taking my hat off at the dinner table, no matter what asylum it looks like I just escaped from. Wearing a hat at the dinner table and TALKING ON YOUR CELL PHONE AT THE TABLE ARE RUDE BY ANY ACCOUNT - ESPECIALLY THAT LAST ONE.
Sorry 'bout that....

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:03 pm

There was a discussion at the RPF about this sort of thing a while back. Many people asked, where did these 'rules' come into play to begin with and why are we still following them? The people who still follow these rules basically couldn't come up with any good reason other than thats what they'd been taught to do or because that's what you're supposed to do, but could not give a good reason as to why you're supposed to. It was "just because". Why does taking your hat off when inside make you a gentleman? I always thought your actions made you a gentleman, not because you won't wear white pants in the winter or use the correctly placed spoon when at the table. Hundred of years ago some socialites in Europe made up some rules off the top of their head due to swelling mis-placed ego's and many people still use them today in our society. I say, it's 2009. Do as you please. Just be a good and polite person. That is a gentleman to me and apparently to many others as well who don't subscribe to old world rules. It is a good debate, tho.

"Manners, Oddjob. I thought you always took your hat off to a lady."

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:30 pm

typically i'm quite polite and well mannered.....however, i break many 'emily post' rules when it comes to my hat. they are bad habbits spawned from my rodeo days.....cowboys only take their hats off for sleeping and showering

........all right, let me rephrase that as most cowboys have good manners......bullriders only take their hats off for sleeping and showering......

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:41 pm

Why?

Because regardless of the explaination, and you find different ones, taking your hat off is simply a sign of respect; it always has been . Yes, it may be archaic, but it is still relatively commonly accepted. As such, you are showing respect to those around you, and those who know recognize that you are being polite and respectful. They, in turn, are appreciative of the simple gesture. Right or wrong, a limited number of judgements can be ( and are ) made about a person through this simple gesture. Mainly because it IS such a simple gesture ( easily done ) and it it is so widely accepted.
To say, " Hey, out with the old, in with the new..." is as foolish a statement as, "because we've always done it that way..."
So, I will go into a restaurant and release the noxtious by-products of the Mexican food I had for lunch on the patrons of the establishment and, in a very satisfied way, proclaim: " AAAAAAaaaaaaahhhhhhh....." Is that polite or respectful? Says who? Or pick my nose and wipe my boogers on the side of my plate? Why not? It's perfectly natural to pick your nose and flatulate. Much more natural than wearing a hat ( especially one modeled on a movie character ). What makes doing those things impolite? Somebody said so?
Virtually everything you do is based on the conventions of your forebears. Why can't you walk down the street and tell the next guy you pass, " Hey buddy, go to H-E-double hockey stick." Because it's rude? They're just words, after all.
Why?
You do it because people who aren't rude or self-centered recognize the gesture. It's getting to be like being in a club these days, sadly; like a Masonic handshake.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:13 pm

Because regardless of the explaination, and you find different ones, taking your hat off is simply a sign of respect; it always has been .

Can you give me a definitive reason as to why it is a sign of respect? Not just "because it's respectful", but WHY is it respectful? Who exactly made this up and when? 200, 300, 500 years ago? At some point in history nobody cared until...when? I'm pretty sure it was some king or queen who demanded this respect of others in their presence, but why do we still accept this today? I don't take off my shirt and everything else as a sign of respect, so why the hat? What makes that so acceptable of showing signs of respect?

I don't fart at the table because it smells and generally it makes people lose their appitite. I don't pick my nose because it's dirty and I don't tell the guy walking down the street to go to F himself because I may get my butt kicked, but some "rules" of ettiquette are just silly, such as not wearing certain colors in certain seasons. I mean...c'mon. Wearing my hat when I eat doesn't bother me and it doesn't bother anyone around me. It may annoy those who sunscribe to that rule but really, is it bothersome? Who exactly is the respect aimed at then? It's aimed at everyone else who was told when they grew up that that's what you do. No logic behind it, it's just what we're told by our peers and you did it.

I'm not saying it's wrong to do it and don't look down on anyone who does, I'm just saying times are a changing. I appreciate people who take the time to be respectful of others even if not everyone agrees with it.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:25 pm

Agent5, taking of your hat is rumoured to date back to helmets: taking your helmet off indoors would leave you vunerable and therefor you showed you placed yourself at the mercy of your host (which was the right thing to do, thus polite). An invader would simply keep his helmet on and slaughter everyone.

So yes it is old, very old.

Regards, Geert

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:39 pm

gwyddion wrote:Agent5, taking of your hat is rumoured to date back to helmets: taking your helmet off indoors would leave you vunerable and therefor you showed you placed yourself at the mercy of your host (which was the right thing to do, thus polite). An invader would simply keep his helmet on and slaughter everyone.

So yes it is old, very old.

Regards, Geert

........and that's why i usually keep my hat on

......ahhhh.....drinking and fighting.......oh, to be young again

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:47 pm

Many things have changed over the years, even if you just go back to the 1930's for hat etiquette. I once saw something that was supposed to be a complete guide to hat etiquette, and there were several pages of rules!

Today, regardless of what's changed in popular culture, a gentleman always removes his hat for the following;
1. Inside the sanctuary of a church, during prayers (even out doors), and pledges/oaths (religious or otherwise).
2. Inside a home, office, or other indoor structure that is not a "common area". (A common area would be a shopping mall, the halls and lobby of a hotel or office building, etc.)
3. When sitting down to eat at a table. (ball game seats, cars, and the like don't count.
4. Attending the theatre or cinema, while seated and watching.

Other common, but not less observed traditions of removal;
1. When stopping a to talk to a woman, and only a woman, if the weather permits.
2. When greeting or saying goodbye to a woman while in mixed company.
3. Tipping of the hat when passing a woman with a casual greeting.
4. As a gesture of respect and courtesy to anyone, when it seems appropriate.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:53 pm

Grabbing the brim of the hat in acknowledgement to someone does go back to the days of knights in armor on battlefields - the knight would lift his visor in regard to a fellow knight as a sign of mutual respect. This also is rumored to become the salute. Handshaking also comes from this time -- to show that you are unarmed.

hocfutue · Post by **hocfutue** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:59 pm

Taking off your hat signifies several things--here are some of the reasons the etiquette evolved:

The hat is an outdoor item, used to protect yourself from the sun and elements. It is removed just as you would wet galoshes or a raincoat. You don't need them indoors.

The removal of the hat is a gesture of accepting the hospitality of your host or the place you have entered. It shows you recognize that where you are is not a common area, but someone's home or private area. It indicates you are not just "passing through."

Removing your hat fully shows your face, so you can be recognized. It indicates openness, lack of subterfuge or concealment.

Removing your hat indoors indicates that you understand the culture and manners of society.

For more information on etiquette during the "Age of Indy", Google books has the 1922 edition of Emily Post's "Etiquette in society, in business, in politics and at home" online. Hat ettiquette is discussed beginning on page 22, Chapter 4: "Salutations of Courtesy".

http://books.google.com/books?id=HhAYAAAAIAAJ

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:10 pm

How about in a classroom?

hocfutue · Post by **hocfutue** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:26 pm

Hat off in the classroom, absolutely. If you are seated in a room (besides a hotel lobby, train station, etc.), you take off your hat.

When I was teaching, I made it clear from day one that no hats (least of all ball caps) were to be worn in my classroom. "Take off your hat and stay a while."

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:30 pm

That's what I thought, and that is what I do... but it looks like I am the only one who ever does.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:05 pm

The hat is an outdoor item, used to protect yourself from the sun and elements. It is removed just as you would wet galoshes or a raincoat. You don't need them indoors.

Yes, but it is also a fashion item as well and not just meant entirely to be used to protect you from outdoor elements. Nowadays it can be a part of an outfit of high fashion and just as important to the whole element presented as any other part of the outfit. In other words, not just a throwaway as many hats were in the past but an important past of the outfit you may be wearing. Without it the outfit may not work, therefore the need to keep it on when wearing the outfit.

Removing your hat indoors indicates that you understand the culture and manners of society.

That depends if you want to reflect the society of 1922 or 2009. The book you're talking about is 90 years old. Things change as does society as a whole and our social rules. I understand some people were brought up on this old school. Some people are just dead set in tradition and some don't see the point and want to move on.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:16 pm

You might want to check this one out too:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35152&hilit=Hat+ettiquette

Regards! Michaelson

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:17 pm

Thank goodness I recognize baiting when I see it.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:31 pm

Anyone can 'google'.

Some more information/history to digest.

http://www.bcvc.net/hats/

Regards! Michaelson

Travner Ravenweird · Post by **Travner Ravenweird** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:39 pm

Not to sideline the debate here..

WhiteBull wrote:Down here, a gentleman removes his hat at the dinner table, but I rarely see this in restaurants for some reason. I don't know if it's because there's nowhere to set it or if they eat while wearing the 10-gallon hat at home too.

It's cool to go into old buildings and see artifacts left over from the hay-day of hats. The historic theater in Leadville Colorado has wire hat racks under all the seats. For some reason your question made me think of that.

Maybe I should have posted that in the archaeology section

..

Sorry to interrupt, please continue.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:44 pm

Michaelson wrote:Anyone can 'google'.

Some more information/history to digest.

http://www.bcvc.net/hats/

Regards! Michaelson

That one's interesting and fun.

Thanks for that.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:00 pm

Thank goodness I recognize baiting when I see it.

Did I miss something or was a post deleted? Who's baiting?

Indy35 · Post by **Indy35** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:52 pm

A few of you hit the ones i commonly do. I always remove my head wear inside a buliding, generally after i enter my office space. I don't take it off entering the lobby or the elevator. Holding a hat in an elevator takes up space in an already cramped area. No head gear should be worn inside a house, nor should it be worn when seated at a table eating. Tipping the hat is a choice and it must be used carefully nowadays, i generally tip only to people that know me, or somebody cute staring at me. Other than that its not tipped. When meeting a lady outside it is general courtesy to remove your lid so that they can see your face when you present yourself, you can then replace the hat on your head. Also the aht should be removed with the left hand, allowing the right hand to be open to shake with.

These are basics i follow. The biggest ones are removing the hat indoors, its not useful indoors and its rude, no matter the age we live in.

indy81 · Post by **indy81** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:06 pm

I definately take my hat off at the dinner table. I don't have a problem setting my hat on a clean table, empty seat, or my lap/leg if no other space permits.

I'm less likely to spill food on me if it's im my lap though, wouldn't want to get anything on my hat.

81

Caber · Post by **Caber** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:04 pm

Ok I live in the south and we only tug on the front of our brims when we pas ladys not take it off. And i still hear a gigle out of the girl

hocfutue · Post by **hocfutue** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:14 pm

Tradition, etiquette, manners are one thing--
getting a giggle out of a girl is a fine reason to do most anything I can think of.

Keep up the good work!

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:45 pm

Well said sir!

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:48 pm

hocfutue wrote:getting a giggle out of a girl is a fine reason to do most anything I can think of.

I've had some girls drop their mouths while looking at me in my fedora.

then give me "the eyes".. you know the type. bat bat and then the coy grin.

Randy

Long John Tinfoil · Post by **Long John Tinfoil** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:09 pm

To note some very practical and current situations, failure to remove your hat for a national anthem, passing flag, in some folks' homes, etc. will get your butt kicked.

LJ

Russian Raider · Post by **Russian Raider** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:48 am

Hm, i think tipping the hat is out of date now. I cant imagine myself tipping hat at strangers. In the company of friends it is other case though.

cowboy827 · Post by **cowboy827** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:59 pm

I agree that it's proper to remove your hat at the table or in someone's office, but it's generally OK to keep it on in common areas of buildings.

However, as an attorney, I'm frequently coming in and out of courthouses. The judicial marshals (guards) are very quick to tell people to take off their hats (or ball caps) immediately as they enter the building.

And personally, I don't mind getting a giggle from a pretty young thing, or even a senior citizen, when I tip my hat.

Caber · Post by **Caber** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:00 pm

Ya but all you people are older . When you tip your hats the girls dont think its weird but when a guy my age , (in his late teens) does it then he is looked at as a freek or somthing . At least i think its that way Ive never realy asked

Solent MKIII · Post by **Solent MKIII** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:11 am

Those giggling girls might not be put off by the hat tip but actually flattered by the display of old-school manners. Just a thought.

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:44 am

The only time I take my hat off is when entering someones home that isn't mine or a relatives home. And also at the table... unless I'm eating outside. I don't tip my hat or any of that stuff. If I'm walking, I just nod my head to acknowledge a male, and smile slightly to acknowledge a lady.

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