The Bantu Wind discussions

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:00 pm

I sure you haven't noticed this.
Well, maybe some of you have, but I am not aware of anyone pointing it out before.

The jacket shown in the photo below has a remarkably low yoke in comparison with what we are used to when we refer to the movie.

Just notice where the pleat starts!!

Now, the above jacket is the same jacket as this (notice the collar details)

and as this

and it has no relation to this

which in my opinion stars in most of the movie.

The result is that Peter's OTR jacket which features, bagginess, small collar, low yoke and long pockets* may not be SA, but could be very close to jackets that made it to the back of HF during the shooting of Raiders.

So, what do you think?

*
Just to remind you here, there are shots in the Raven bar where the jacket has long pockets.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:20 pm

sebas zoomed into the strap attachments of that jacket and it does look like the back panel straps are attached internally.

i just don't trust pics anymore.

Redinight · Post by **Redinight** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:51 pm

That's likely to be the same jacket with Spielberg and Ford infront of the Bantu Wind and pre production photos, as the Bantu Wind scenes were the first scenes to be filmed. More and more the features on the Jacket become what I am comfortable with and I realize now more than ever unless we know which Jacket was used in each scene we can't have a purely universal SA jacket.

Post by **Holt** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:41 pm

the bantu wind jacket is more close to Peters first jacket pattern from mid and late 90's.

I LOVE the style of the bantu wind jacket and I am busy making specs for that style...(Yeah I know,I never stop chasing rabbits)

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:53 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:the bantu wind jacket is more close to Peters first jacket pattern from mid and late 90's.

I LOVE the style of the bantu wind jacket and I am busy making specs for that style...(Yeah I know,I never stop chasing rabbits)

Holt, the rest of us only benefit from those looong cold winters in Norway when you've got a lot of time to stay inside and work on those specs........

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:53 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:the bantu wind jacket is more close to Peters first jacket pattern from mid and late 90's.

I LOVE the style of the bantu wind jacket and I am busy making specs for that style...(Yeah I know,I never stop chasing rabbits)

There is more than one Rabbit to chase, so you're still 'OK'

Let us know when you've collected them all ;-)

Post by **Holt** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:11 pm

oh,and just to answer your question platon. I knew this allready.and I have pointed it out somewere before ;-)

here are some picture of the bantu wind scene.

low yolk. period!

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:39 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:the bantu wind jacket is more close to Peters first jacket pattern from mid and late 90's.

I LOVE the style of the bantu wind jacket and I am busy making specs for that style...(Yeah I know,I never stop chasing rabbits)

Holt, you need to become a vendor yourself and start making your own jackets......As Ford said to Connery at the crossroads, "It's an obsession!....

Post by **Holt** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:40 pm

hehehe

im not saying anything ;-)

Fortune and Glory · Post by **Fortune and Glory** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:14 pm

I know some have speculated that the jacket at the end of TOD is an old Raiders, judging by the extremely slim fit and that Ford was much bigger in Temple. But the low yoke is clearly on display within that scene and used to dismiss the idea...

So what if both camps were right? Raiders -- and -- low yoke there. The Bantu Wind jacket, come back from the grave.

Note that this is not something I believe and that a little video study would probably dismiss the idea immediately. But given the way this hobby goes, it would almost be appropriate.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:37 pm

the pockets would give it away.
Anything is possible F+G

Post by **Holt** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:01 pm

here is were I think the raiders jacket appears in TofD.

I mean it just looks so much like it. the color is spot on for raiders I think. it looks to have a much higher yolk then the tofd jacket. the straps points backwards like in raiders. the drape is raiders. everything with this jacket screams raiders to me...also, it looks like the jacket is being worn of the shoulders like he wears it in the begining of raiders...

but I dont think this is Ford.but a stand in, maby the stand in had a production raiders jacket? who knows? to be honest I dont care, but its fun to talk about it...

Fortune and Glory · Post by **Fortune and Glory** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:29 pm

That HAS to be a Raiders jacket. If memory serves, you're right and this was a stand-in. Wouldn't be surprising if they pulled an archive jacket, which happened to be from the first film. It is a wide shot, after all...

And definitely the way it wears off the shoulders. To me, this is something every Nowak gets right that I almost never see in other jackets. It's in the cut, and it's there or it isn't.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:31 pm

It's possible. In the thread that _ talks about his discussion with HF it says he sometimes wore the a Vic stunt jacket which was a Raiders.

The straps of the ToD point backwards too. The picture is very blurry and hard to pick out detail. The back looks like it drapes over the bag lifting it up a bit, but it also looks like it might be longer in the back, which a ToD is.

If it's a stand in maybe it is Vic. He was one of Ford's doubles wasn't he?

Post by **Holt** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:36 pm

the tod is not longer in the back the the front.they are the same length.

the reason why you feel or it might look that the back is longer is becasue your chest lifts the jacket up in the front.

thats why people add those inches to the front so you wont get that ride up.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:40 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:the tod is not longer in the back the the front.they are the same length.

the reason why you feel or it might look that the back is longer is becasue your chest lifts the jacket up in the front.

thats why people add those inches to the front so you wont get that ride up.

The ToD NH was 26" in the back. The jacket TN had was 23" in the back but rides off the shoulders so appears longer.

The front of the ToD not including collar stand is 22.5 to 23" (measured from my second one which is 26" back length), which would be the same as the Raider I think.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:41 pm

............................

Post by **Holt** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:42 pm

forget about it... I misunderstood and mixed it up..

DeWayne · Post by **DeWayne** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:43 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:

If I remember right, this scene was filmed with stand-ins walking down a hill at ILM. The village was just composited in later. Easily could have been a jacket they had in storage from "Raiders" at ILM.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:10 am

So I am guessing, until now we have the following jackets

1. The Bantu Wind jacket (Bantu Wind boarding scene, publicity shots)
--------------------------
Small and short squared tip collar, low yoke, different size & pocket placement, 80s fit, narrow sleeves, maybe a little short

2. The Hawaii jacket (TN) (Hawaii outside temple, Raven bar after fight, Imam's house, wing fight some scenes, truck chase some scenes)
--------------------------
Large collar Squared tip at storm flap See TN details,

3. The Temple jacket (inside temple, Raven bar before fight, at the dig, inside ark chamber, wing fight, truck chase)
----------------------
Baggier fit, high yoke, long collar, left collar tip rounded - right collar tip pointed, (appears with short collar in Raven bar), rounded storm flap tip, longer pockets, torn right pocket,

That's how I see it at least...

Hawaii

Imam's house

Watch left collar side

Please note this jacket is different

than this

which is the same with this

Hawaii jakcet here

Temple jacket here

mark seven · Post by **mark seven** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:44 am

I don't think it is the Hawaii jacket in those truck chase pics-that jacket has the bullet hole.

moses · Post by **moses** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:27 am

I can't honestly say I can tell any difference at all between the jackets in Bink's pics!

I can see that the Bantu jacket has a lower yoke - but all the other pics just look the same to me. You all must have fantastic eyesight!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:53 am

moses wrote:I can't honestly say I can tell any difference at all between the jackets in Bink's pics! I can see that the Bantu jacket has a lower yoke - but all the other pics just look the same to me. You all must have fantastic eyesight!

Which pics are you referring to, moses, since I haven't even posted anything in this thread, nor do I see any of my images even referenced here?

moses · Post by **moses** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:00 am

I'm so sorry!!! I don't know how I read Platon's name as yours?!?!?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:02 am

Neither do I!!!

;-)

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:05 am

I think binks previous avatar and platons current look a lot alike!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:15 am

Well, I DO look a lot like John Wayne... in my dreams. ;-)

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:30 pm

One of the noticeable differences in those pics is the collar.
Just look at the collars and compare.
You will see.

moses · Post by **moses** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:10 pm

Nope - can't see anything that'd make me think they were different jackets. I mean - my collar doesn't always sit the same - and the jacket is in motion in most of those pics. All I can say is I admire your eyesight.

CM · Post by CM » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:03 pm

I don't see all that much in these photos either, I've got to say, I think photos have been proven to be very unreliable.

So Platon you are sure the TN jacket is the one from those scenes you list?

Cheers -CM

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:40 am

He might be on to something as the jacket Tony had may have been used in other scenes, but other than the Hawaii scenes that were confirmed to Tony I don't know how you'd tell.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:56 am

OK if I find the time I 'll show you guys what I mean with more pictures. I 'm sure you will be able to see it.

I will point out the differences with some arrows too.

CM · Post by CM » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:24 am

Long John Tinfoil · Post by **Long John Tinfoil** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:11 am

Now I'm wondering when Indy took the time to unbutton his shirt in the Raven Bar scenes (3rd & 4th pics. The button is clearly there, so it wasn't ripped in the fight.)

There seems to be some real "Flying Squirrel" potential in that 3rd shot, too.

LJ

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:03 am

Long John Tinfoil wrote:Now I'm wondering when Indy took the time to unbutton his shirt in the Raven Bar scenes (3rd & 4th pics. The button is clearly there, so it wasn't ripped in the fight.)

There seems to be some real "Flying Squirrel" potential in that 3rd shot, too.

LJ

Hey, he's trying to get that medallion from Marion. Showing a little chest hair might not hurt.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:00 pm

So there you have it.
Two different jackets, two different collars

Temple Jacket

Characteristics: Smaller collar lapels. Right collar lapel pointed, left collar lapel rounded, rounded storm flap tip.

Don't you agree that all the collars in the above photos look the same?

Hawaii Jacket

Characteristics: Larger collar lapels. Both lapels same size and shape, squared storm flap tip.

This collar looks more stiff. Especially the right lapel does not seem to lose its slight "S" shape. Look photos first row third from the left and compare with second row first, second and third pic from the left.

Notice also that the left lapel look the same in all the pics.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:53 pm

Cool, man!

That's a really helpful way of laying it out - clearly looks like 2 main jackets to me.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:14 pm

thanks Platon.

Does the collar end in the second from the left of the lower row of the top group of photos have a squared end?

The one jacket with the mismatching collar points makes it fairly easy to identify.

moses · Post by **moses** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:24 pm

Now that is a far better selection of pictures and now I can see what you're getting at. Good eyes indeed.

moses · Post by **moses** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:30 pm

Looks like Nowak collar is identical to the "Hawaii jacket" in Platon's pics - would certianly suggest Tony made an accurate copy!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:32 pm

It all looks good except the bottom right pic which belongs in the top section of pics. You can clearly see the more rounded storm flap end and it was also in the same scene as the ones above.

CM · Post by CM » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:37 am

CM · Post by CM » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:42 am

There could still be several jackets, just 2 basic collars in the cutting of them all.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:55 am

After the 'prototype', according to the write up the second order was 10, which apparently they weren't real happy with because some were quite different from the prototype, and from each other. The last order was supposed to be duplicates of the prototype but I get the impression were not necessarily and mostly not used.
I'd guess they'd pick those of the second order of 10 that most resembled the first jacket to use for filming. But who really knows how many were actually used?

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:37 am

RCSignals wrote

thanks Platon.

Does the collar end in the second from the left of the lower row of the top group of photos have a squared end?

The one jacket with the mismatching collar points makes it fairly easy to identify.

In the photo you are referring to the right side of his collar is squared/pointed and the left is rounded. Watch the bonus feature of Raiders DVD, at the Raven Bar scene, it's clear as a day.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:42 am

agent5 wrote

It all looks good except the bottom right pic which belongs in the top section of pics. You can clearly see the more rounded storm flap end and it was also in the same scene as the ones above.

I disagree. Take a closer look.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:44 am

moses wrote

Looks like Nowak collar is identical to the "Hawaii jacket" in Platon's pics - would certianly suggest Tony made an accurate copy!

I agree, it looks great in your photo. And the leather looks great too. I m starting to believe that TN chose a great leather.

However, I am a "temple" jacket guy.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:14 am

PLATON wrote:moses wrote

Looks like Nowak collar is identical to the "Hawaii jacket" in Platon's pics - would certianly suggest Tony made an accurate copy!
I agree, it looks great in your photo. And the leather looks great too. I m starting to believe that TN chose a great leather.

However, I am a "temple" jacket guy.

whoa....i'm ducking under the plymouth.....don't want to be hit by any flying pigs.........

just kidding platon

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:33 am

Platon,
That pic above is of the main hero jacket with the longer collar and rounded off storm flap corner. The corner is really what gives it away. It's not squared off like the Hawaii jacket corner is.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:42 am

a5 I am in doubt. I will look at more screengrabs and will get back to you