Bogart Casablanca hat

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:14 am

Ok, so just out of curiosity, what would be a good hat if I ever wanted to get one like Rick has at the end of Casablanca? I'm not in the market for one right now, I was just watching it the other day and wondered where I could get one like it.

Thanks,
Bogart

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:57 pm

I'd get it custom made - I haven't really seen any off the rack hats that cature that look, to be honest. -M

JeffB · Post by **JeffB** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:27 pm

I would keep an eye out for a vintage Dobbs or Cavanaugh hat. I was in a restaurant just last night that had a Casablanca poster and noticed that Bogarts hat looked like it had a Cavanaugh edge on it.

jones the whip · Post by **jones the whip** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:58 pm

Funny,

I was also watching Casablanca recently.
I noticed in the Blue Parrot scene, where Humph is making a deal with Sidney Greenstreet, that his hat has a definite LC look about it. The crown has a deeper centre dent but on the whole is quite similar.
Best film ever made.

Cheers,
JTW.

Tremolo · Post by **Tremolo** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:59 pm

Maybe the Stetson Nostalgia would get close?

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:01 pm

Best film ever made.

Amen.

Thanks for the input guys. And Tremelo, the Nostalgia does look like it could be a nice Bogart hat.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:05 pm

Here's a link to the golden era:

http://www.thegoldenera.net/hat_Bogart_Casablanca.html

Here's one that I have done relatively close. The real one had a Cavanaugh edged brim, which you can't get anymore. The OG one was probably also done in thinner felt than this one. I'd call mine "Casablanca-esque". There's probably lots of places that sell one that's pretty close if that's all you're after.

http://images46.fotki.com/v1414/photos/ ... 037-vi.jpg
http://images46.fotki.com/v1395/photos/ ... 038-vi.jpg
http://images47.fotki.com/v1402/photos/ ... 040-vi.jpg
http://images45.fotki.com/v1256/photos/ ... 039-vi.jpg
http://images42.fotki.com/v1364/photos/ ... 055-vi.jpg
http://images44.fotki.com/v1420/photos/ ... 057-vi.jpg

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:08 pm

The Bogart hat is actually better suited for people with thin faces (like Bogart). I usually wore this hat with the brim up. If you're after something to wear, it is something to keep in mind. Cheers

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:38 pm

Rundquist, I like the hat in your pictures. What kind of hat is that? Also, what is a Cavanaugh edged brim?

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:39 pm

And what would be a good color for a Bogart hat? All his movies are in B&W, so I can't tell the colors. Grey or brown?

Tremolo · Post by **Tremolo** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:51 pm

Personally, I would go with grey. Somehow that´s the color I have in mind when I think of Casablanca.

Indiana Jo Jo · Post by **Indiana Jo Jo** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:51 pm

don't know if it's accurate or not but most of the art work I've ever seen for the movie and the technicolor reprints seem to suggest brown for the fedora and overcoat.

http://www.moviegoods.com/movie_product ... e%5Fid=319

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:51 pm

Gray seem to be the favored choice for Bogie hats, but I'm not sure what he really wore. The Cav edge is folded, much like a welt edge, but not stitched. It's actually felted into itself, which is really cool.

Best bet off-the-shelf would be either vintage (which takes patience, time, and auctions, usually) or the Nostalgia.

Otherwise, look to Optimo, Art Fawcett (Vintage Silhouettes), or Marc. All have experince with Bogie styles. Art has made a couple of lightweight hats with a stitched welt brim. Don't know about the others.

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:04 pm

See, I like grey more just because I like grey hats; I think they look very classy and dressy. Whereas, IMO, a brown hat, while it can be nice, usually seems to be more of an every day wear, grab it as you go out the door, hat. (I'm sure Indy had something to do with that. ;-) ) Anyway....my guess would be that the hat that Bogart wore in Casablanca was probably brown, due to the fact that he's wearing a trench coat which was most likely a khaki color. What I'm getting at is, while a grey hat looks nicer for a Bogie hat, brown would probably the SA color. (Wow...I just answered my own question.

)

The Cav edge is folded, much like a welt edge, but not stitched. It's actually felted into itself, which is really cool.

That is cool Chewie. I had never heard of that before.

How much do the Nostalgias go for?

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:08 pm

How much do the VS hats run?

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:17 pm

IndianaBogart wrote:How much do the VS hats run?

My most recent cost me $330, maybe a little more, with priority shipping and a beautiful hat box. The first VS costs a little more because Art sends out a head conformer to get the size and shape of your head (you pay shipping). So, it is custom in every sense of the word.

Tremolo · Post by **Tremolo** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:21 pm

Most of the time I see the Nostalgias going for $130 and $160. So it´s a bit pricey, but to me they look very nice. have you thought about a Christy in a light brown or grey? maybe with a wider ribbon.

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:27 pm

Chewbacca Jones wrote:
IndianaBogart wrote:How much do the VS hats run?
My most recent cost me $330, maybe a little more, with priority shipping and a beautiful hat box. The first VS costs a little more because Art sends out a head conformer to get the size and shape of your head (you pay shipping). So, it is custom in every sense of the word.

Uhhhhhh........yeah.........college student. I think I'll have to pass on $300 hats.

It wouldbe awesome to have a custom hat like that though.

$130 for a Nostalgia isn't terrible though. Not long ago Fed IVs were $100. What model of Christies would be a good Bogie hat, Tremelo?

JeffB · Post by **JeffB** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:53 pm

Here is a pic that kind of shows the Cavanaugh edge on my vintage Dobbs.

Tremolo · Post by **Tremolo** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:53 pm

Mmh, I would either pick the Adventurer or the Fedora and request it with a 2 1/2" brim. I tried this bash (C-Crown) with my Adventurer and could imagine that with a wider ribbon, maybe 45mm, it would get pretty close.

Tremolo · Post by **Tremolo** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:54 pm

JeffB, that hat looks great! How wide is the ribbon?

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:56 pm

Color-wise you'll probably have to go brown or gray if you don't go custom. However, a great fedora color that people don't consider is Blue. Blue would make a great Bogie style fedora. If you get a good shade of Blue, it pretty much goes with everything that gray goes with. Cheers

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:56 pm

JeffB, nice hat!

JeffB · Post by **JeffB** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:59 pm

Tremolo wrote:JeffB, that hat looks great! How wide is the ribbon?

Just measured the ribbon and it is 1-15/16" or 50mm. Here is another pic on my goofy head.

darthbish · Post by **darthbish** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:41 am

http://www.hatsdirect.com/cgi-bin/produ ... edora+Hats

tried here??

Barcelona Jones · Post by **Barcelona Jones** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:45 am

IndianaBogart, if you wear a small size, I would suggest vintage. You can get good prized hats with the features you need, including the Cav edge, which is no longer done. Larger sizes are harder to find and more expensive, on the other hand.

If you have to go with a modern hat, look for one with the adequate 40's porportions. I think an Akubra Fed IV would do perfectly and it is a good quality-price option; you should change the dimensionally cut brim for a normal one if you want to stick to the Bogey image, though. The Stetson Nostalgia is another good option, and it has the correct brim, but I have read recently about it not standing rain...

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=36175

Rundquist, I like the crease in your hat, it is indeed very Bogart-esque, but I think it would look better in a taller crown. Domed crowns take off some height because of the "telescope effect", and the hat may look squat if it didn't have a tall crown to begin with. Of course there's nothing wrong with squat hats if that is how you like them!

Jeff B, I believe your Dobbs 15 is the twin of this one of mine!

JeffB · Post by **JeffB** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:24 am

Barcelona, Do you have any more pics of that one? Maybe of the liner?

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:47 am

I already looked at Hats Direct and the "Bogart" hat only comes in black; I would much rather have grey or brown.

As for a Fed IV, that would make my 3rd Federation, and I would like something a little different. Not to mention the fact that I would have to change the ribbon and try to get one without the dimensionally cut brim.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:29 am

Now, if I were after a Bogie fedora, I would give Art Fawcett a call. Art specializes in vintageesque hats. He also had our feltmaker run some lightweight bodies for him, and this would be a great choice for the felt. And again, if I were in the market for one, I would ask Art to use a number 51 block, one of the 6 inch tall variety. I have found this to be a dead ringer for the Bogie fedora. Most of the top of that block is creased down inside the hat, so you don't end up with a tall hat. Brim width, 2 3/8 inches. And yes, these hats look very striking on slim faced folks. Back in Bogie's day, the hat was fitted to the person's facial shape, more than one sees today, in the hat business. Speaking of dress hats here. The walk in shops of yesteryear had very knowledgable folks to help with the right choice in dimensions.

The same cannot be said of western hats though. Have you seen those country music stars on tv, with the wrong hat for the facial shape? It makes me almost drop to the floor at times, getting a good chuckle. But, western hats generally ignore the facial shape deal. You buy a particular style, and "live" with the comedy. As you can probably tell, I am not a western hat fan, although I do think some of those hats look great on some folks. Just not me!! Fedora

MustangLoverMex · Post by **MustangLoverMex** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:40 am

JeffB wrote:Here is a pic that kind of shows the Cavanaugh edge on my vintage Dobbs.

That one loks very much like my Stetson vintage gray Fedora. I'll post some pictures later. (I'm at school right now

)

-Alfonso

Barcelona Jones · Post by **Barcelona Jones** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:52 pm

Barcelona, Do you have any more pics of that one? Maybe of the liner?

Hi Jeff,

Will try to post more photos tomorrow, and with a better camera if possible!

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:09 pm

Barcelona Jones wrote:
Rundquist, I like the crease in your hat, it is indeed very Bogart-esque, but I think it would look better in a taller crown. Domed crowns take off some height because of the "telescope effect", and the hat may look squat if it didn't have a tall crown to begin with. Of course there's nothing wrong with squat hats if that is how you like them!

It might be a tad short for a Bogie, but not by much. The ribbon is much wider than a regular Bogie hat, and my face isn't exactly thin. I could never really pull the "Bogie" look off anyway. All the proportions would have to be exaggerated to better approach the look and in the end it just wouldn't look right on me anyway. A man's got to know his limitations as they say.

PS- The brim on your hat would need to be shorter to be more Bogie-esque for instance, but it's perfect where it is, as a matter of taste.

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:53 pm

Fedora, thanks very much for the input. It's awesome getting advice from a master, but alas, being a college student, one of Art's hats isn't in the cards any time soon. On a side note, do you reblock Federations any more, or just ABs?

What do you guys think of this hat I found on the auction site?

MOD EDIT: viewtopic.php?t=9524

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:13 pm

I just got a back issue of CLASSIC STYLE magazine with an article about Bogie and his fashion sense. it mentions something about where he got some of his hats for his films. I'll reread it and LYK what it says. Maybe that will help.

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:23 pm

Cool. Thanks, sithspawn!

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:16 pm

Yeah, I suggested Art Fawcett in the event it was something within reach. I figured it couldn't hurt. The Nostalgia is good, even if the brim is a bit wide for a Bogart. But you could get that trimmed. Same for a Federation.

Also, check these out;
http://www.millerhats.com/mdressfelt_in ... ssfelt.htm

And don't go by the brim sizes shown in the photos. Many have several brim widths available when you read the specific listing.

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:34 pm

I forgot about Miller Hats. Thanks, Chewie. Which of those do you think could make a good Bogart hat?

BTW, sorry mods about the ebay post.

Exam time....not thinking straight all the time.

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:09 pm

Well, according to the article Bogie preferred to select his own clothes for his films which were all custom made. He really loved hats and it goes on to say," Bates in Jermyn St and Lock & CO. were two of Bogarts favorites. Whenever he was in Milan ,he stopped in to view the latest lids at Borsalino."

He purchased hats all over the world, "but the ones he wore in The Maltese falcon and The Big Sleep were made at Bailey of Hollywood. Baron hats in LA made the hat he wore in The Treasure Of The Sierra Madre."

It has very little info about the Casablanca hat only calling it a taupe teardrop fedora and later on saying he "would help popularize the teardrop Trilby."

Don't know if this little bit of info will be helpful in your quest, but I tried.

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:46 pm

Thanks sithspawn!

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:13 pm

Wow after looking at those pics my question is, "Would you like a hat to go with that ribbon?" Those ribbons are huge.

Barcelona Jones · Post by **Barcelona Jones** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:17 am

scot2525 wrote:Wow after looking at those pics my question is, "Would you like a hat to go with that ribbon?" Those ribbons are huge.

So, you think those ribbons are huge?

Now, this is a huge ribbon!

Mallory brand, "flat top" porkpie model, back bow ribbon.

Yes, some of us actually do like hats that go with that kind of ribbons.

There's life beyond Indiana Jones style fedoras...

Regards!

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:35 am

Don't forget Lee Keppler also sells a Bogie style fedora!

Shane

Barcelona Jones · Post by **Barcelona Jones** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:00 pm

Hi again Jeff,

Here you are...

Regards!

JeffB · Post by **JeffB** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:23 pm

Thanks, Barcelona, sent you a PM.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:50 pm

Barcelona Jones wrote:
scot2525 wrote:Wow after looking at those pics my question is, "Would you like a hat to go with that ribbon?" Those ribbons are huge.
So, you think those ribbons are huge?

Now, this is a huge ribbon!

Mallory brand, "flat top" porkpie model, back bow ribbon.

Yes, some of us actually do like hats that go with that kind of ribbons.

There's life beyond Indiana Jones style fedoras...

Regards!

Amen to that preacher. Even posting a porkpie is sacrilege to many on this board. Lester Young is just as good a “hero” as anybody to take fashion tips from.

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:08 am

So was Rick's hat brown or grey?

I was always under the impression that it was brown.

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:07 am

I'm thinking it was most likely brown.

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:52 am

I think it was Taupe.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:39 am

Rundquist wrote:
Barcelona Jones wrote:
scot2525 wrote:Wow after looking at those pics my question is, "Would you like a hat to go with that ribbon?" Those ribbons are huge.
So, you think those ribbons are huge?

Now, this is a huge ribbon!

Mallory brand, "flat top" porkpie model, back bow ribbon.

Yes, some of us actually do like hats that go with that kind of ribbons.

There's life beyond Indiana Jones style fedoras...

Regards!
Amen to that preacher. Even posting a porkpie is sacrilege to many on this board. Lester Young is just as good a “hero” as anybody to take fashion tips from.

ink

the main reason is because this isn't fedora lounge it's Indy Gear.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:28 pm

You must live just to disagree with people.