HERO TOD whip up for auction

Hairyloft · Post by **Hairyloft** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:23 pm

Start saving guys!

http://www.profilesinhistory.com/new/
LOT #370
Harrison Ford signature “Indiana Jones” bullwhip from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
(Paramount, 1984) This bullwhip, along with the fedora and distressed leather jacket, personify the Indiana Jones character. Indy’s use of the whip enabled him to fend off the bad guys as well as get him out of tight spots by using it as an acrobatic tether. It is one of the most highly recognized pieces in modern film history. The kangaroo hide whip was hand-made by David Morgan measures 10 ft. long (measuring from the butt of the handle to the end of the braid). The foundation of the handle is made of steel weighted with lead tape for proper balance. This whip comes with a letter of provenance from Jane Page, whose father Malcolm Page was Works Manager at Norank Engineering (based at Elstree Studios) during the production of the film. During the filming of the rope bridge sequence at Elstree, Malcolm, being a standby engineer, was given this whip by a member of the crew. Subsequently, Malcolm took the Indy whip to numerous charitable speaking engagements and roundtable discussions over the years. The whip comes with a stainless steel tag engraved Norank 18-1-85” which Malcolm attached to the loop on the handle following the production. Virtually every publicity image of Indy depicts him with either whip in-hand or strapped to his side. This is the first Indy bullwhip we have ever handled.
$40000 - $60000

Also selling the Hat from TOD

serrecuir · Post by **serrecuir** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:50 pm

Interesting. That 23-year old whip looks more like my 2-year old Morgan whip. The handle looks shorter than the 80's Morgan handles, and the color isn't as dark as I would have expected it to be after all of these years.

Thanks for posting this though!!

Kind regards,
Craig

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:04 pm

It may be a whip that was on the set for TOD and it may not be. I know a lot of members at Rebelscum.com have proven that PIH auctions for Star Wars items are not always legit.

The whip certaintly looks like a Morgan and in one picture, even though the leather hasn't darkened, the leather does appear old. The fact that it hasn't darkened much could be due to the fact it was possibly stored in a safe and not exposed to the elements very frequently.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:18 pm

i don't buy this auction either....just doesn't look right, sorry.

i've been flaming the TOD hat auction over in the fedora section. i thought desi of 'screen used' had the TOD whip?

the handle looks short, with no taper, and the plating looks strange to me. maybe bernardo can sniff it out as a fake or not.

i think the collective knowledge of this forum is an auctioneer's worst nightmare

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:54 pm

I want to call it a fake as well. That fall is darn near brand new. Why change out a piece of history? That popper doesn't look to bad. However that thing looks nasty. It's kinky up really bad, but the color looks near new and the plaiting on the handle doesn't look the best. To me it looks like one of Modern Morgans that were terribly made.

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:45 pm

hey - waaaaaiiiitaminute! I though that all Indy whips after Raiders had the Red Hude fall??!! This one has a more modern white fall!

and that hat just looks like heck! Who gave it the teardrop crown, too?

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:38 pm

Overall, the whip looks more like a recent Morgan than any of the 1980s Morgans that I've seen.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:11 pm

Lot #371 is the khyber knife from the bridge scene. And the handle length of the bullwhip looks almost exactly like my whip!

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:59 pm

Interesting, It doesn’t look quite right to me either.

I don't doubt that it is a Morgan bullwhip but there are certain variances in the design that just aren’t normal for Temple of Doom era Morgan, let alone any of the film used bullwhips. The most notably differences being the shorter handled grip section and the heavier look to the plaiting which is less smooth then the older whips, also poppers were not tied like that until after 2001. I think someone has been duped, I know wouldn’t buy that whip even if I had the money.

Gater, David stopped using white hide falls around 1992 I believe, after he could no longer get the white hide of suitable quality for making falls. He used exclusively red hide after that, but switched back to white hide a few years ago.

DJN · Post by **DJN** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:23 am

There is no way that is a whip from TOD or any of the films for that matter. Total BS. Much more recent whip. Total hustle.

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:10 am

I think there are pictures of two different whips. The close up of the butt knot looks to have a different shape than the pictures where you can see the whole whip. It may just be a optical illusion, but the close up is a more square knot and the other is the teardrop knot.

Also the fall looks like a more modern Morgan fall, it's more square. If I remember correctly the older Morgan's have a flatter fall.

...I could be wrong.

xoxo

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:31 pm

Yeah, I agree that it is definitely not a TOD-era Morgan. All the details are wrong: the handle section is short, the plaiting is heavier, the white hide fall is too white (in a whip that old should be yellow), the whip also should be darker, the popper has the different knot, etc.

My guess is that this whip is probably just a few years old, and it was kept coiled in a funny way, hence the kinks. The Turk's head shape reminds me of some knots I've seen made by Meagan.

Bernardo

techrtr · Post by **techrtr** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:35 pm

I hope the poor sap who might have otherwise paid $40,000 for the thing pays a visit here first.

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:35 pm

Well I'm with you guys on ALL those points AND I'll even throw in another which may or may not be of any significance:

At around the 11 inch mark, about an inch or two before the thong starts to curve into the coil, there is a strand drop, a rather obvious one at that, and my question is this, would David Morgan ever drop a strand so early on? From what I know of David's technique, he wouldn't normally be dropping that first puppy until around the half-way mark on the whip.

It COULD happen I suppose, if he ran into a bit of bad luck and had a strand unexpectedly break right after the handle was plaited, no big mysetry there, but with all his experience, would that sort of thing even still happen to him, even if he HAD made this back in the day?

I dunno, I have a bad feeling about this...

Franco

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:10 am

Sounds like we are all pretty much on the same page with this one

And after seeing the higher res images of that bullwhip, I'll say it, there is no way in hades that thats a Morgan from 1983, let alone one used in the Temple of doom. That bullwhip in the photos was made sometime in the last 6 or 7 years.

Franco, I don’t think that’s a dropped strand but rather a mis-plait in the plaiting patter. It probably wasn’t noticed until it was too late to bother going back and fixing it, since it would only be a cosmetic flaw and wouldn’t effect the way the whip handled.

They’ve been known to happen and its not the first I've seen this on a Morgan. Also if that whip was made around the time I think it was made, that was around the same time there was a big drop in the over all quality of the whips being sent out from the shop, Fortunately that’s not so much an issue anymore.

Dan

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:34 am

Is it possible for us to contact them? To simply suggest that it may be a phony and or ask for proof that this whip really is what it's claimed to be?

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:40 am

BullWhipBorton wrote:Sounds like we are all pretty much on the same page with this one And after seeing the higher res images of that bullwhip, I'll say it, there is no way in hades that thats a Morgan from 1983, let alone one used in the Temple of doom. That bullwhip in the photos was made sometime in the last 6 or 7 years.

Franco, I don’t think that’s a dropped strand but rather a mis-plait in the plaiting patter. It probably wasn’t noticed until it was too late to bother going back and fixing it, since it would only be a cosmetic flaw and wouldn’t effect the way the whip handled.

They’ve been known to happen and its not the first I've seen this on a Morgan. Also if that whip was made around the time I think it was made, that was around the same time there was a big drop in the over all quality of the whips being sent out from the shop, Fortunately that’s not so much an issue anymore.

Dan

thats funny the TOD hat for sale is also a hat made after
n
the movie... came out.

techrtr · Post by **techrtr** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:10 am

Canuck Digger wrote: At around the 11 inch mark, about an inch or two before the thong starts to curve into the coil, there is a strand drop, a rather obvious one at that, and my question is this, would David Morgan ever drop a strand so early on? From what I know of David's technique, he wouldn't normally be dropping that first puppy until around the half-way mark on the whip.

Franco

I've noticed strand drops before in whips. Are they mistakes, or are they used to get the whip to taper better?

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:09 am

Techrtr,

Normally you wouldn't drop strands to get taper in the first half.

Typically in a 12 plait Indy bullwhip you drop strands to get the taper in the 2nd half of the whip. The taper in the first half is created by the core, belly's and bolster.

xoxo

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:18 am

Another thing I noticed about that whip is that the fall hitch has only 6 hitches. If I remember correctly Morgan has 7 hitches on his fall.

So if that's probably not the original fall...but I'm not sure why the fall would have been changed, the whip clearly hasn't been used enough to wear out an entire fall...maybe it originally came with a redhide fall and it was swapped it out for a whitehide??

I could be wrong.

xoxo

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:45 am

Louie,

In virtually ALL Morgans I've seen there are always 6 fall hitches, corresponding to each of the 6 strands that are carried to the point.

I think both the fall and fall hitch are the original ones. My guess is that this whip was made in 2006. When DM went back to putting white hide falls on his whips, he used an australian white hide, that was more yellow than white in color. It is very strecthy. My Morgan made in 2004 has this type of white hide fall.

Then in 2006 DM started using a white hide made in the States and purchased from Siegel. This white hide is much better than the previous one. The whip I braided during my visit and that he gave me as a gift has that fall. To this day, he keeps using these falls for his whips. To the best of my visual powers, the fall on this whip looks like this white hide.

Regards,

Bernardo

www.delcarpiowhips.com

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:52 am

Bernardo,

I always thought that one of the filler strands ended up being one of the fall hitches (that's how it is/was in my morgan whip), so it was 6 strand plus one filler. I just assumed that he did that will all.

My mistake.

Louie

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:11 pm

Louie,

That's interesting, now I see why you thought there were always 7 hitches. The way he showed me, was to keep one of the core strands long and hold it over the fall, so that when tying the hitches things are a bit easier. He didn't use the core strand...perhaps he or the person who braided your whip got confused and picked that core strand by mistake. That can happen.

Regards,

Bernardo

www.propmasters.net · Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:53 am

Hi,

As posted elsehere, the hero machete is mine, directly consigned to Profiles.

I would like to stress and make totally clear that the Indy Whip and Hat have nothing to do with me.

regards,

david

www.propmasters.net