Chris_King wrote:
He definitely needs to address this leather choice because I can't find any pics of any jackets which look like this all over. Sizing is also an issue because Tony has told people that the jackets he had were 42 and 44. We know that Ford didn't wear a 44 until Last Crusade and the NH Hero jacket is a 40.
Many questions need to be answered and many "theories" need to be confirmed or dismissed.
Chris
I think if anything's wrong with that quote, I'm the one to blame, since I don't recall anyone else other than me bringing up Tony mentioning the jacket's sizes. However, one thing that may account for this may be how both vendors account for sizing... I mean, think about it. It's not like the jackets have a size tag on them, so measuring, and ultimately 'determining' the jacket's size is up to the individual vendor.
Take a look at Peter's jackets VS Tony's jackets. A size 40 from Peter is certainly a lot looser than a 40 from Tony. So perhaps what Peter considers a 40, Tony may consider a 42.
Just a thought, but it may go a ways to explain this possible 'contradiction'.
This is true about sizing. One sources 40 isn't necessarily the next sources 40. You'd think it would be something to rely on, but experience speaks differently.
You can go to a store and try on clothing from the same maker in the same labeled size and have different fits.
When dealing with older leather jackets that have been through 'the mill' with distressing, wetting and drying etc, size also changes. Look at pictures of the condition of the NH jacket for example.
Yes people here have in some cases spoken to Tony or visited him. Sometimes relaying/relating information doesn't come out the same. That is not saying anyone has lied, just that interpretations of information can differ.
I'm still waiting for _'s report from talking to Tony.
Seems almost everyone who has called or visited Tony has come away either ordering a jacket or pending an order. Interesting.
Then you're either too biased, haven't read this thread or both.
but there are some happy jacket buyers
That is maybe the first solid fact in this thread. No doubt these are quality jackets based on what I've heard and seen on the CS jackets. I've always said it's best to have more vendors than less.
Then you're either too biased, haven't read this thread or both.
I've read the whole thread. My comment refers to the people who have actually talked to Tony on the phone or visited and ended up ordering. They don't have too much differing in stories, but the rest of the thread sure does. ;-)
I guess, if you call him, prepare your wallet in advance
agent5 wrote:
but there are some happy jacket buyers
That is maybe the first solid fact in this thread. No doubt these are quality jackets based on what I've heard and seen on the CS jackets. I've always said it's best to have more vendors than less.
That is maybe the first solid fact in this thread. No doubt these are quality jackets based on what I've heard and seen on the CS jackets. I've always said it's best to have more vendors than less.
It is interesting that most of the negativity is coming from people who have no direct experience with TN; as far as I am aware, EVERYONE who has actually purchased, handled and worn one of his jackets-- including the Raiders jackets-- has given only extremely positive reviews. That's an astonishing record, considering that he only recently began providing them for us. My opinion, which I'm sure will be ignored, is that we should all cool off, calm down and cut the guy a little slack. I believe he has earned a lot more respect from this group than he has been receiving.
That is maybe the first solid fact in this thread. :lol: No doubt these are quality jackets based on what I've heard and seen on the CS jackets. I've always said it's best to have more vendors than less.
It is interesting that most of the negativity is coming from people who have no direct experience with TN; as far as I am aware, EVERYONE who has actually purchased, handled and worn one of his jackets-- including the Raiders jackets-- has given only extremely positive reviews. That's an astonishing record, considering that he only recently began providing them for us. My opinion, which I'm sure will be ignored, is that we should all cool off, calm down and cut the guy a little slack. I believe he has earned a lot more respect from this group than he has been receiving.
Jack
I don't have a TN, nor do I want one, but you're right. This thread is getting silly and perhaps should be shut down until TN himself tells us what is what. Otherwise all this is just a rambling pile of tosh from everyone - me included - and that can't help...
I am sorry but I don't think that TN had neither the Martin Grace (Butterfields) jacket nor the hero jacket.
Here are some points to consider:
The leather he uses is off and as someone said earlier he must have mistaken the distressing for texture of the leather. As a result, I do believe that the leather he uses is embossed or otherwise treated like Peter said. I don't think that mother nature makes lambskin like this. On top of that, Peter never said he used any special textured kind of leather for the hero jacket. And remember, Peter's choice for "original" leather used is his "authentic" lambskin with a smooth texture that we all know.
If "THE RECREATION HAS NO EQUAL" and the 001/888 as a copy of the "JACKET THAT MATTERS" then it's a copy of the wrong jacket.
If he had two jackets, how did he choose which one to rule out? Who decided which jacket matters and how? Why did he not contact anyone from the moderators here for consultation?
Are we going to see a copy of the jacket that didn't matter?
I do not think that George Lucas would let anyone borrow the jacket to copy and sell. Why would he do that? Also, he couldn't be offered a cut, because he wouldn't bother with peanuts. He is a multi-millionnaire.
If I were an admin here I would ask Lucas for an interview at his office and would ask to see and take photos of the hero jacket. For the fans. GL wouldn't say no to the fans. C'mon guys I know you can do it.
I dont see whats the big twist over the leather. Tony picked that leather after doing research and from what he saw on the jacket itself. The pictures do exaggerate the grain but it doesnt look as bad when you actually see it. as for the leather being plaited or whatever. I handled raw pieces of the leather and its the real leather. I asked Tony why it looks that way, it gets that look from the tanning process. Folks you got to understand that the pics people, including myself, are posting dont do the jacket justice. I really do wish Tony would post something on here about some of the details of the jackets he copied or his replicas but until that happens this thread is a blowout with no spare and only AAA Tony can help us out here.
Edit: I sent an email to Tony about how we need his input on here. I hope he can come through and post something.
Last edited by Indiana Williams on Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
One more thing. The jacket the guy on the right (jumping) is wearing has nothing to do with 001/888. I can see the piping in his pocket from here. And the pocket flap is different.
So, if this guy is Martin Grace, then the jacket TN copied wasn't Martin Grace's.
Also, this jacket looks different than the butterfields 1994 auction jacket so I tend to agree with those who said that it was an LC jacket.
Finally, after close observation I think HF wore two jackets in the film and their principal difference is the collar. (I will post some photos on a new thread soon) Sadly TN's jacket look like none of those.
THE FRONT MEASURMENT INCLUDES THE COLLAR STAND SO THE JACKET ON ITS OWN IS SHORTER THEN INDY 4. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THE JACKET I WORKED WITH WAS BEAT UP AND STRETCHED OUT, YOU YOURSELF CAN MEASURE ANY OTHER LEATHER JACKET OVER AND OVER AND COME UP WITH SOME DIFFERENCES.
THE JACKET OO1 WAS MADE WITH THE IDEA OF THE PRODUCTION JACKET BUT DUE TO OTHER REQUESTS I WILL FOLLOW UP ON ALL OF THEM. IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE ALL INDY FANS IN OUR FACTORY THE DAY I HAD THAT JACKET, NOW THAT I REALIZE HOW CRUCIAL THAT WAS, BUT I DID SOMETHING I NEVER DID WITH ANY OTHER FILM JACKETS I WORKED WITH - I COUNTED THE TEETH ON THE ZIPPER.
KIND REGARD TONY NOWAK,( NOW I DO EXPRESS MYSELF BETTER ON THE PHONE ) .
Personally, I have a very hard time believing that the jacket Tony borrowed was one of Ford's jackets. The fact that the chest measurement is half an inch BIGGER than the crystal skull jacket is very revealing.
The sleeve length on this Raiders jacket is 1 inch shorter than crystal skull. We know from the NH shirt that Ford's sleeve length was 34 inches, so why would his Raiders jacket sleeve length be only 32.25 inches?
The back length of this Raiders jacket is 3 inches shorter than the crystal skull jacket!
Last edited by Chris_King on Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
The fact that the chest measurement is half an inch BIGGER than the crystal skull jacket is very revealing.
This doesn't have to do with size. The armpit to armpit measurement is greatly affected by the fit. Measure your Medium size NH shirt and the armpit to armpit measurement of a Wested 40 and you will see great difference, though they are both made to be worn by the same body size people.
What is that with the teeth he counted? Can't he just say how long (in inches) was the zipper? From that we can determine approx front length.
Chris, let's not forget that there are other measurements needed (more than the number of teeth in a zipper)
-The cuff opening,
-The circumference of the sleeves, whether they are piped or wider at shoulder
-The distance of the side straps from the bottom
-The length of the collar (hero jacket displays an unusually long collar - I know the claims that it was elongated during distress, but how much can you elongate?)
He's already given us the front length. It's 23 inches long (including the collar stand).
I've just replied to his email and asked him to confirm the front and back length and I pointed out to him that the sleeve measurement and back length seem to be short for a "Harrison Ford sized" jacket.
PLATON wrote:
What is that with the teeth he counted? Can't he just say how long (in inches) was the zipper? From that we can determine approx front length.
He's already given us the front length. It's 23 inches long (including the collar stand).
Yes but you never know. Since his info is not very right so far maybe if you add the teeth together end up with 24 inches or 22 inches, so, it does not hurt to verify.
Chris_King wrote:Personally, I have a very hard time believing that the jacket Tony borrowed was one of Ford's jackets. The fact that the chest measurement is half an inch BIGGER than the crystal skull jacket is very revealing.
The sleeve length on this Raiders jacket is 1 inch shorter than crystal skull. We know from the NH shirt that Ford's sleeve length was 34 inches, so why would his Raiders jacket sleeve length be only 32.25 inches?
The back length of this Raiders jacket is 3 inches shorter than the crystal skull jacket!
Actually the sleeve length of the Chrystal Skulls jacket is 26"
the back length of the Chrystal Skulls jacket is 26.5"
Actually, I'm talking about the total sleeve length (as it would be measured by a tailor). You measure across the top of the shoulder to the sleeve seam and then from the sleeve seam down to the cuff which results in 33.25" for Crystal Skull. This is closer to the sleeve length of 34" that we know to be correct on the NH TOD shirt.
TN's Raiders sleeve length (across shoulder then down to the cuff) measures 32.25 inches.
Thanks for reminding me that the crystal skull jacket back length is 3.5 inches longer than this Raiders jacket! Yikes!
Chris
RCSignals wrote:
Actually the sleeve length of the Chrystal Skulls jacket is 26"
the back length of the Chrystal Skulls jacket is 26.5"
[/b]
Last edited by Chris_King on Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
First of all the front length cannot be the same with back length (this is from jacket making 101)
Second of all if the back is 23 inches then this jacket is shorter than the already short 25 inches of a Wested size 40.
Chris, something is wrong (typing mistake) with the measurements. Can you please double check?
regards,
Also consider. If the jackets are scaled to the measurements of the copied jacket, examine pictures of 001/888. the length of the body isn't extremely short from what would be expected.
No, but it's VERY short for a jacket length at the back. Even Wested's 38 Regular is 24 inches long!!!
No way is Ford's Raiders jacket that short at the back - especially when you can compare crystal skull pics to Raiders pics and the jacket length at the back is very comparable!
RCSignals wrote:
Also consider. If the jackets are scaled to the measurements of the copied jacket, examine pictures of 001/888. the length of the body isn't extremely short from what would be expected.
Last edited by Chris_King on Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One more thing. The jacket the guy on the right (jumping) is wearing has nothing to do with 001/888. I can see the piping in his pocket from here. And the pocket flap is different.
So, if this guy is Martin Grace, then the jacket TN copied wasn't Martin Grace's.
Also, this jacket looks different than the butterfields 1994 auction jacket so I tend to agree with those who said that it was an LC jacket.
Finally, after close observation I think HF wore two jackets in the film and their principal difference is the collar. (I will post some photos on a new thread soon) Sadly TN's jacket look like none of those.
I don't see how you can tell any detail of the pocket in that picture.
from the other thread, the 1994 auction was not a Raiders jacket.
Chris_King wrote:No, but it's VERY short for a jacket length at the back. Even Wested's 38 Regular is 24 inches long!!!
No way is Ford's Raiders jacket that short at the back!
RCSignals wrote:
Also consider. If the jackets are scaled to the measurements of the copied jacket, examine pictures of 001/888. the length of the body isn't extremely short from what would be expected.
Aren't Wested Raiders jackets now all made to fan specifications, not necessarily to an original pattern?
Chris_King wrote:Actually, I'm talking about the total sleeve length (as it would be measured by a tailor). You measure across the top of the shoulder to the sleeve seam and then from the sleeve seam down to the cuff which results in 33.25" for Crystal Skull. This is closer to the sleeve length of 34" that we know to be correct on the NH TOD shirt.
TN's Raiders sleeve length (across shoulder then down to the cuff) measures 32.25 inches.
Thanks for reminding me that the crystal skull jacket back length is 3.5 inches longer than this Raiders jacket! Yikes!
Chris
RCSignals wrote:
Actually the sleeve length of the Chrystal Skulls jacket is 26"
the back length of the Chrystal Skulls jacket is 26.5"
[/b]
How did you determine that sleeve length of 32.25 inches? apparently from your post quoting Tony, Tony did not provide that. He gave 25.5" which is from the shoulder to cuff end.
HF 34" shirt measurement would be from the center of the back, across an extended and slightly bent arm to the point of a sleeve end.
I've never had a Tailor make sleeve measurement by measuring across the top of the shoulder to the sleeve seam and then from the sleeve seam down to the cuff.
He provided 6.75 inches for the shoulder and 25.5 inches for the sleeve.
6.75 + 25.5 = 32.25 inches.
Chris
RCSignals wrote:
How did you determine that sleeve length of 32.25 inches? apparently from your post quoting Tony, Tony did not provide that. He gave 25.5" which is from the shoulder to cuff end.
HF 34" shirt measurement would be from the center of the back, across an extended and slightly bent arm to the point of a sleeve end.
I've never had a Tailor make sleeve measurement by measuring across the top of the shoulder to the sleeve seam and then from the sleeve seam down to the cuff.
Last edited by Chris_King on Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't you believe your eyes?
It's no stretch at all. Adjust the brightness and the piping and pocket flap shape appear as clear as day.
Frankly, I'm not sure why you choose to question EVERY comment that is raised about these details. We get the fact that you like the TN Raiders jacket but for those of us who have an insatiable thirst for finding out the truth behind the claims, why can't you just sit back and let the facts unfold without trying to de-rail it at every turn?
Chris
RCSignals wrote:
Chris_King wrote:Image...Adjust...Brightness. Voila - the piping at the top of the cargo pocket flap magically appears!
RCSignals wrote:
I don't see how you can tell any detail of the pocket in that picture.
i think it's a stretch to draw that conclusion from that photo
Chris_King wrote:He provided 6.75 inches for the shoulder and 25.5 inches for the sleeve.
6.75 + 25.5 = 32.25 inches.
Chris
RCSignals wrote:
How did you determine that sleeve length of 32.25 inches? apparently from your post quoting Tony, Tony did not provide that. He gave 25.5" which is from the shoulder to cuff end.
HF 34" shirt measurement would be from the center of the back, across an extended and slightly bent arm to the point of a sleeve end.
I've never had a Tailor make sleeve measurement by measuring across the top of the shoulder to the sleeve seam and then from the sleeve seam down to the cuff.
Your math is correct but the relation to sleeve length isn't.
The 6.75" shoulder compared to the 7.25" shoulder means the Chrystal skull jacket has slightly more drop at the shoulder/sleeve seam. Size of the jacket neck will also effect the length of the jacket shoulder .
So the sleeve length of this jacket that matters is only 0.5" less than Chrystal Skulls jacket
Chris_King wrote:Don't you believe your eyes?
It's no stretch at all. Adjust the brightness and the piping and pocket flap shape appear as clear as day.
Frankly, I'm not sure why you choose to question EVERY comment that is raised about these details. We get the fact that you like the TN Raiders jacket but for those of us who have an insatiable thirst for finding out the truth behind the claims, why can't you just sit back and let the facts unfold without trying to de-rail it at every turn?
Chris
RCSignals wrote:
Chris_King wrote:Image...Adjust...Brightness. Voila - the piping at the top of the cargo pocket flap magically appears!
RCSignals wrote:
I don't see how you can tell any detail of the pocket in that picture.
i think it's a stretch to draw that conclusion from that photo
I am trying to determine fact from conjecture.
mod edit. see post directly above yours.
Thank you mod. I understand your edit, but it makes my post appear as I attacked Chris in mine, which I did not.
I don't want to leave Chris with the impression I might have.
Last edited by RCSignals on Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This thread reminds me of on old SNL sketch with John Malkovich. In it, he played a character named “Johnny Canal”, whose dream it was (in the early 1800’s) to dig canals throughout the United States (instead of roads). The senators and congressman at his presentation meeting would ask serious questions about the details of how these canals would come to be and Johnny as part of a defense mechanism would pull his knife and attack. In the end he asked, ‘Well do you want the canals or not?”. Even though I like the details of the history of the gear, I’m starting to feel that way. Do you guys want the jacket or not?
While that is ultimately the bottom line, if that was the only question we asked ourselves around here it would be a pretty boring place, doncha think? ;-)
While that is ultimately the bottom line, if that was the only question we asked ourselves around here it would be a pretty boring place, doncha think? ;-)
Michaelson wrote:It would be a heck of a lot easier to moderate!
Regards! Michaelson
I’m of course kidding to a degree, hence the silly example.
incase anyones interested, heres a photo Tony gave me when I visited.I dont think you can see it in the scan but if you look at the idol grab pic, the pocket shows the type of grain that is in the leather hes using. http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll307/jjdw88/Joe.jpg
Indiana Williams wrote:incase anyones interested, heres a photo Tony gave me when I visited.I dont think you can see it in the scan but if you look at the idol grab pic, the pocket shows the type of grain that is in the leather hes using. http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll307/jjdw88/Joe.jpg
yeah..but that pocket area can also just be really broken in....
But so is Tony actually going to post something on COW? Or at least some info on his website? It's been a month now.....(I realize he must be very busy and this sort of thing takes time)......He is still planning on it right?
Here's Tony's reply to my question about the jacket length seeming short. He's asked me to share this reply:
HELLO CHRIS ! THERE IS NO MIX UP - JUST FACTS , CRYSTAL SKULL SLEEVE LENGTH IS 26.0 , INDY ONE IS 25.5 . TAKE A GOOD A REAL GOOD LOOK WHERE THE CRYSTAL SKULL JACKET SLEEVE ENDS ON HARRISON FORD HAND VERSUS INDY ONE . THE FRONT IS SHORTER ON INDY ONE THEN THE BACK - COLLAR STAND INCLUDED , BECAUSE THE WAY THE INDY ONE WAS CONSTRUCTED WITH NO REENFORCEMENT OF ANY KIND , THE BACK DOES NOT RETRACT LIKE THE CRYSTAL SKULL JACKET . THERE FOR THE CHEST MEASURMEN COULD BE BETWEEN 40 / 42 .I DONT KNOW , I WASNT THERE WHEN THE JACKET WAS NEW . . MORE FACTS - THE 30 JACKETS THAT WE DID MAKE FOR INDY IV DID MEASURE DIFFERENTLY AFTER BEING DISTRESSED AND WORKED ON THROUGHOUT THE MOVIE FOR A VERY SIMPLE REASON THEY ARE MADE OUT OF LEATHER . THERE ARE NO TWO JACKETS PRECISELY ALIKE EVEN THEY WERE MADE BY THE SAME PWTTERN . SO HERE ARE THE FACTS THAT I KNOW OF AND IF SOMEBODY WOULD LIKE TO CHALLENGE THEM LETS DO IT , PROVIDING THEY BET ON IT . MY VERY BEST REGARDS TONY NOWAK .
ALSO PLEASE BE SO KIND AND SHARE ALL THIS INFORMATION WITH ALL THE INDY FANS , AGAIN I AM MUCH BETTER ON THE PHONNE TO ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS , THANK YOU AGAIN T.N.
;-) 
My Wested 42s are about 25.5.
