TONY NOWAK IS REPLICATING AN ORIGINAL RAIDERS JACKET!!

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:32 pm

I'll have to disagree and say it's the same jacket. For one thing, you have that large distance between the left pocket and the storm flap, a gap that many that's been at this longer than me say they've not seen before. While it's certainly possible that two jackets could have the gap, it doesn't seem likely in this case.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:45 pm

it is the same jacket

Too many things match up like said above

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:50 pm

yeah I have to agree with Dutch....

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:05 pm

It sounds like Hatch and 'G's' specs are the specs of the Seconds jacket Tony had to replicate. If that second jacket was in fact the HERO then Hatch and G's jackets are in essence copies.

I suspect Tony was working not just from the jackets in choosing which was the HERO, but from supplied information from the source, who wants to remain anonymous. It's possible both jacket were HERO used on screen.

It seems jackets used in Raiders were quite different from one another. As I said before I suspect what is now viewed as 'the' Hero jacket through strict examination of screen shots is actually an amalgam or composite of many.
There is no single jacket that matches.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:12 pm

I'm almost certain one of the jackets HAS to be a stunt jacket, because going by my phone conversation with Tony (or at least so far as I understood), Tony mentioned one jacket was a 42, and one was a 44, when I asked what sizes the two Raiders jackets he handled were.

And G, I'm jealous!

Unless mine is on the way as we speak, it looks like you've won this time! But just you wait... MWAHAHAHAHA!

Looks like I'll need to clear a LOT of wardrobe space now... It just ***** being an OCD as far as gear is concerned!

Browncoat · Post by **Browncoat** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:38 pm

The selling point for me regarding this jacket was that it was a replica of an actual Raiders Hero...only in my size. Now it seems that you have to supply design details/specs to make it look like the Hero?

You can pretty much do that with Wested and still have another two more chances to get it right for the price.

Hopefully, it'll all get ironed out as more and more jackets are made. We've seen three so far and each one seems to get better than the last. It really is a nice looking jacket especially when seeing it worn.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:46 pm

42 and 44,

THOSE are either both stunt jackets or not raiders at all Harrison didn't wear a 42 or 44 in raiders he had 40 in raiders and TOD.

The specs on G's and hatch's jacket are mostly by themselves.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:52 pm

Kt Templar wrote:
Satipo wrote:So, all we need now is someone to request an exact copy of the hero jacket as opposed to the other one, or their own specs, right?
Or Indy G specs.

As nice as G's jacket looks, his specs are still based on ... well, speculation. ;-)

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:56 pm

Huh?

Hatch and 'G's' specs were THEIR OWN REQUESTS. Tony did not magically change his patterns into the hero. The only reason Hatch and 'G's' jackets look a bit closer to the hero is because they both requested specific changes - G even used KT's Wested pocket specs!

Chris

RCSignals wrote:It sounds like Hatch and 'G's' specs are the specs of the Seconds jacket Tony had to replicate. If that second jacket was in fact the HERO then Hatch and G's jackets are in essence copies.

I suspect Tony was working not just from the jackets in choosing which was the HERO, but from supplied information from the source, who wants to remain anonymous. It's possible both jacket were HERO used on screen.

It seems jackets used in Raiders were quite different from one another. As I said before I suspect what is now viewed as 'the' Hero jacket through strict examination of screen shots is actually an amalgam or composite of many.
There is no single jacket that matches.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:58 pm

Hang on. _ has confirmed that one of the jackets Tony got was the Martin Grace "stunt" jacket which was sold by Butterfield & Butterfield. That jacket is listed as 38/40.

With every post like this, the confusion and contradictions keep escalating.

Chris

Castor Dioscuri wrote:I'm almost certain one of the jackets HAS to be a stunt jacket, because going by my phone conversation with Tony (or at least so far as I understood), Tony mentioned one jacket was a 42, and one was a 44, when I asked what sizes the two Raiders jackets he handled were.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:03 pm

Maybe you missed this?

Indiana Williams wrote:
Dutch_jones wrote:Indiana Williams, you've talked to Tony did you ask anything about the backgrounds of the jackets he copied?

Because there's still confusion on it... did he copy the Martin Grace for most part or the Leather concessionaires?

thanks..
What Tony told me was the first jacket he reproduced had features of the leather concessionaries jacket. Gs jacket was more like the main jacket the one Tony is hush hush about. He was told not to reveal its source so hes a man of his word.Believe me I wish he would have filled me in on the full story but he didnt. As Tony told me the proof is on screen. The picture he showed me was a collage of Raiders pics showing certin features of the jacket such as the grain of the leather, no facings and the nickel snaps on the pockets.

Chris_King wrote:Huh?

Hatch and 'G's' specs were THEIR OWN REQUESTS. Tony did not magically change his patterns into the hero. The only reason Hatch and 'G's' jackets look a bit closer to the hero is because they both requested specific changes - G even used KT's Wested pocket specs!

Chris

RCSignals wrote:It sounds like Hatch and 'G's' specs are the specs of the Seconds jacket Tony had to replicate. If that second jacket was in fact the HERO then Hatch and G's jackets are in essence copies.

I suspect Tony was working not just from the jackets in choosing which was the HERO, but from supplied information from the source, who wants to remain anonymous. It's possible both jacket were HERO used on screen.

It seems jackets used in Raiders were quite different from one another. As I said before I suspect what is now viewed as 'the' Hero jacket through strict examination of screen shots is actually an amalgam or composite of many.
There is no single jacket that matches.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:08 pm

I thought that was retracted that it was the Martin Grace "stunt" jacket.
But early on in this thread _ hinted that to see what the jacket would look like, to look at scenes with Martin Grace.

Also, the Butterfield auction description indicates the jacket they auctioned was Harrison Ford's. Where does the information come from that it was Martin Grace's stunt jacket?
That must have been confirmed somewhere and a disappointment to the buyer?

Chris_King wrote:Hang on. _ has confirmed that one of the jackets Tony got was the Martin Grace "stunt" jacket which was sold by Butterfield & Butterfield. That jacket is listed as 38/40.

With every post like this, the confusion and contradictions keep escalating.

Chris

Castor Dioscuri wrote:I'm almost certain one of the jackets HAS to be a stunt jacket, because going by my phone conversation with Tony (or at least so far as I understood), Tony mentioned one jacket was a 42, and one was a 44, when I asked what sizes the two Raiders jackets he handled were.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:12 pm

No, I didn't miss it.
Indiana G and Hatch have already confirmed that they asked for these additional specs so that their jackets looked more accurate.
How can the fact that they asked for these changes suddenly make Tony's pattern more accurate to the second jacket?

RCSignals wrote:Maybe you missed this?

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:13 pm

Where was it retracted? My apologies if I missed that retraction.
If the first jacket he got WASN'T the Martin Grace jacket, what the #### was it?

I've tried to keep up with all the latest theories and "facts" about what these jackets are supposed to be but it's getting more and more difficult.

To be honest, I'm done with this thread until someone (preferably Tony) reveals what's going on because NOTHING seems to make any sense at the moment.

Chris

RCSignals wrote:I thought that was retracted that it was the Martin Grace "stunt" jacket.
But early on in this thread _ hinted that to see what the jacket would look like, to look at scenes with Martin Grace.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:33 pm

Chris_King wrote:No, I didn't miss it.
Indiana G and Hatch have already confirmed that they asked for these additional specs so that their jackets looked more accurate.
How can the fact that they asked for these changes suddenly make Tony's pattern more accurate to the second jacket?

RCSignals wrote:Maybe you missed this?

this part specifically:

Gs jacket was more like the main jacket the one Tony is hush hush about.

Tony made notes and measurements, apparently patterns of both jackets.
One of the jackets met very closely the secs asked for by Hatch and G.

This is probably why, although given specs by both Hatch and G, he was able to produce their jackets so quickly. He still accommodated all the specific requests, which he will do for any of his jackets.

Indiana Williams · Post by **Indiana Williams** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:47 pm

I wish Tony would chime in here too but hes a pretty busy guy. Both times Ive visited his shop the phone always rang off the hook but when I was there he had one of his assistants take the calls and he returned there calls after I left. He would also be like 'wait here' and he would run off to fetch something to show me like leather samples and other jackets. He will be at the QM though so all you guys attending can grill him for info. Hes really looking forward to going to the QM. He kept asking me questions about what everyone does at the summits. I told him we all just get together and hang out.

MACHONE · Post by **MACHONE** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:07 pm

Indiana Williams wrote: The picture he showed me was a collage of Raiders pics showing certin features of the jacket such as the grain of the leather, no facings and the nickel snaps on the pockets.

Thanks for the images and information. I am really curious what photo he showed you showing the grain of the leather. Was it a common image or scene from Raiders? I would be really interested to see any shots/scenes pointing to this leather.
-Ben

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:41 pm

Indiana Williams wrote:I wish Tony would chime in here too but hes a pretty busy guy. Both times Ive visited his shop the phone always rang off the hook but when I was there he had one of his assistants take the calls and he returned there calls after I left. He would also be like 'wait here' and he would run off to fetch something to show me like leather samples and other jackets. He will be at the QM though so all you guys attending can grill him for info. Hes really looking forward to going to the QM. He kept asking me questions about what everyone does at the summits. I told him we all just get together and hang out.

I think he'll be busy answering lots of questions at the QM. I hope he isn't too 'swamped' by it all

wish I could be there.

junior · Post by **junior** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:41 pm

Nice jacket. The "left back" pic shows the collar to be a near exact cut of the Expo collar. While I think this leather is no doubt as good as lamb can get, it may not be the best Raiders leather one could use for a Raiders jacket as seen on screen. Lastly, there are a few very very minute variences I see on G's jacket as compared to what I see on screen throughout Raiders, but, this is again being very picky. I think Hatch and G have made some astute chnages to this stunt jacket that TN seems to only be referring to when he has made the three TN "Indy's First" jackets.

As I stated in a post just before _'s last entry, I wonder why TN hasn't replicated the jacket that is supposed to be a much more true Hero jacket - one that has all of the unique "Indy from Raiders" features we all see on screen? From what I gather, G and Hatch have given TN changes for him to make when he makes them a replica of the stunt jacket.

Why not just make a replica of the other "Top Secret" jacket he had access to for one day? My theory is because some behind the curtain things haven't been worked out. But, if this is the case, why start offering the Riaders jacket, if in a few weeks a "no changes are needed" replica of the Raiders jacket will be available?

junior

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:58 pm

Those are some very good questions, Junior. I'm no marketing whiz by any means but if I had a chance to copy the Raiders Hero jacket that is the one I would have copied FIRST, warts and all. Then you could tell everyone that you could make certain changes for durability/aesthetic purposes. But here is THE jacket, folks.

Now, if I'm understanding right, then Tony might have been confused to what the main Hero jacket was and copied the wrong jacket. But after this thread, I would be putting my copy of the other jacket out there.

Again, none of this is meant to be a bit derogatory toward Tony. He's a wonderful guy and a pleasure to do business with but there's just several things that don't add up and this whole thing has gotten a lot more messy and complicated than it ever needed to be (maybe I'm just adding to it).

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:22 am

The following question comes to my mind.

If I were TN and I was aware that Hatch and G's specs were very close to those of the hero jacket I had analyzed, and knowing that Hatch and G had provided me these specs because they would like their jackets to resemble the hero jacket as much as possible, then why wouldn't I just say to them:

"Hey, you know what guys? The other day I was in Gold's, bench-pressing with Arnold and some new guy, Matteson, I think ... when, suddenly, I had a CRAZY idea. I realized that your own specs are actually very close to, but not quite the same as those of the hero jacket I studied - how about that, huh? Well, baring in mind you really want your jackets to look just like the hero jacket ... forgive me if I am stabbing wildly in the dark here, but instead of making custom jackets using your very close-but-no-cigar specs, would you prefer it if I actually made your jackets using the ACTUAL SPECS of the ACTUAL HERO JACKET worn by the ACTUAL HARRISON FORD in your favourite movie, Raiders of the Lost Crusade?"

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:38 am

Well, I didn't stay away from this thread for long. However, I had an email from Tony and here's what it said:

"WE HAD MORE THEN ONE JACKET TO WORK WITH , THE ONE THAT MATTERS HAD N O L A B E L . IT CAN BE SEEN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FILM ."

So here we have yet more contradicting facts. Up until now, we had managed to use the info from _'s source to conclude that Tony had the Martin Grace jacket and THE HERO (which had a Leather Concessionaires label).

However, now Tony is telling us that the main jacket had NO LABELS.

I'm sorry, but there are FAR too many contradictions / conflicting facts here and that fills me with a lot of doubt.

Chris

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:13 am

Chris_King wrote: I'm sorry, but there are FAR too many contradictions / conflicting facts here and that fills me with a lot of doubt.

Chris

Yes FAR FAR too many contradictions!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:18 am

This is the Martin Grace jacket seen at the beginning of the film. Is this the one in the hands of TN?

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:23 am

I honestly don't think we'll ever know for sure. He certainly doesn't appear to be able to share any photos of either jacket with us.

However, he's claiming that his jacket replicas are as close as you can get to THE HERO jacket from the beginning of Raiders. He's referring to it as "the jacket that matters".

In the email reply I received, he went on to say "THE RECREATION HAS NO EQUAL . NEVER WILL ."

Chris

Indiana Strones wrote:This is the Martin Grace jacket seen at the beginning of the film. Is this the one in the hands of TN?

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:31 am

I don't understand all this mystery about the original jacket. What's the problem in sharing some images with us? A lot of people want to see the original before ordering a copy.

indyrocks · Post by **indyrocks** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:40 am

Indiana Strones wrote:I don't understand all this mystery about the original jacket. What's the problem in sharing some images with us? A lot of people want to see the original before ordering a copy.

I agree. What's more curious to me are the comments made by Tony in the email to Chris. If this is "the jacket that matters" which will "never have an equal" I think some photos posted somewhere are not only necessary but will be instrumental in selling a lot more of these jackets. Just show us the goods!

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:50 am

indyrocks wrote:I think some photos posted somewhere are not only necessary but will be instrumental in selling a lot more of these jackets.

Very right!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:58 am

What I'd love to know is WHY we keep getting this contradictory info? What is going on? It has tags, then days later it doesn't. It's the hero jacket then it isn't. Does anyone know the truth or is there just a need to make things up? I'm beginning to think somebody just cannot get their facts straight or doesn't want us to know. We have people who keep giving us "facts" that keep changing. How can facts change?

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:02 am

and this is why I stay out of this conversation...to much back and forth..

I'm just a watcher now..

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:08 am

And all the contradictory info makes it hard to even just watch.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:09 am

yep.that is very true ;-)

Ravenswood · Post by **Ravenswood** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:21 am

Step AWAY from the GRAIN Tony....
He's hooked on whatever picture he saw from the movie that had some texture to the leather, but whatever....after reading these threads and seeing the pictures of the newest TN Raiders, I can't get this "EMINEM" Song out of my head:

"Look at those ridges....so many ridges....I ain't never seen a HIDE LIKE THAT. And when you feel it, I bet it makes your fingers go BOING-BOING- BOOIIING!!!"

I know I'm appealing to a small audience with that reference, but I can't get that song out of my head now.
Seriously though. GREAT cut, just the wrong leather....

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:38 am

Indiana Holt wrote:and this is why I stay out of this conversation...to much back and forth..

I'm just a watcher now..

move over on the couch buddy. i hope you don't mind me joining you.....i have some popcorn to share

.....now what did i miss? who is this tony nowak guy???? ;-)

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:39 am

Indiana G wrote:
.....now what did i miss? who is this tony nowak guy???? ;-)

hmmm...wasnt he running for president next to Obama?

and come on over..no prob I have a king size couch..anyone else like to join us?

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:33 am

Chris_King wrote:In the email reply I received, he went on to say "THE RECREATION HAS NO EQUAL . NEVER WILL ."

Oh well, we're done then. Nothing more to discuss eh?

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:48 am

Understood nothing in this thread. I surrend.

r.deckard · Post by **r.deckard** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:04 pm

Chris_King wrote:
In the email reply I received, he went on to say "THE RECREATION HAS NO EQUAL . NEVER WILL ."

I don't know. I think that my Todd's custom looks more like the jacket at the beginning of the film than TN's does. Plus it only cost half as much.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:10 pm

r.deckard wrote:Chris_King wrote:
In the email reply I received, he went on to say "THE RECREATION HAS NO EQUAL . NEVER WILL ."

I don't know. I think that my Todd's custom looks more like the jacket at the beginning of the film than TN's does. Plus it only cost half as much.

to be quite honest I think the Todd's jacket do look more accurate at this point. Well they have for quite some time now

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:37 pm

Contradictions? There isn't enough info directly from Tony for there to be any contradictions.

Out of context snippets from one side of email correspondence don't help.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:17 pm

Contradictions? There isn't enough info directly from Tony for there to be any contradictions.

The people giving us the info that Tony directly relayed to them is what is contradictory. No, Tony has not appeared here to give us his version but the versions we have so far second hand have been contradictory. You can't see it? I'm not ripping on Tony or calling him a liar or anything of the sort nor am I doing so to our members, but something is amiss. All most of us want is to get the real story which, by most standards, shouldn't be too difficult, yet the story keeps changing almost daily.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:21 pm

agent5 wrote:
Contradictions? There isn't enough info directly from Tony for there to be any contradictions.
The people giving us the info that Tony directly relayed to them is what is contradictory. No, Tony has not appeared here to give us his version but the versions we have so far second hand have been contradictory. You can't see it? I'm not ripping on Tony or calling him a liar or anything of the sort nor am I doing so to our members, but something is amiss. All most of us want is to get the real story which, by most standards, shouldn't be too difficult, yet the story keeps changing almost daily.

Exactly thats is exactly what it is !

It has nothing to do with Tony not posting because we're getting the info from Tony via members here. But everyone seems to tell a different story.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:25 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:
agent5 wrote:
Contradictions? There isn't enough info directly from Tony for there to be any contradictions.
The people giving us the info that Tony directly relayed to them is what is contradictory. No, Tony has not appeared here to give us his version but the versions we have so far second hand have been contradictory. You can't see it? I'm not ripping on Tony or calling him a liar or anything of the sort nor am I doing so to our members, but something is amiss. All most of us want is to get the real story which, by most standards, shouldn't be too difficult, yet the story keeps changing almost daily.
Exactly thats is exactly what it is !

It has nothing to do with Tony not posting because we're getting the info from Tony via members here. But everyone seems to tell a different story.

and that's it. Unless it comes directly from Tony, it isn't contradictory.

What people have relayed from discussions with Tony is in a sense second hand and it is, and has been stated by individuals as, from memory only.

Only Tony can contradict himself

Hatch · Post by **Hatch** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:26 pm

Can't find any real differences in my jacket and G's (THANKS FOR THE GREAT PICS I WILLIAMS ) except mine's a 46 and has a little more distressing I think.....asked for it to look like it had been worn a few years.....and this is something else I think Tony excells at.....but its really hard to tell exactly from pics as I've said the camera really can't capture the nuances of the leather as in person at least IMHO.. very pleased and it's breaking in nicely ...Hatch

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:45 pm

I'm very glad you're pleased with your purchase, Hatch. Wear it in good health.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:48 pm

and that's it. Unless it comes directly from Tony, it isn't contradictory.

What people have relayed from discussions with Tony is in a sense second hand and it is, and has been stated by individuals as, from memory only.

Only Tony can contradict himself

No, it doesn't matter who the info came from. The statements we've been given thus far have been contradictory. I think you'll see the definition is in order in this situation.

con·tra·dic·to·ry (kntr-dkt-r)
adj.
1. Involving, of the nature of, or being a contradiction. See Synonyms at opposite.
2. Given to contradicting.
n. pl. con·tra·dic·to·ries Logic
Either of two propositions related in such a way that it is impossible for both to be true or both to be false

So far it's been members here who's statements contradict one another, not Tony himself. Tony can certainly contradict himself and may well be, but we won't know until he posts here because we are getting second hand info. Either way, what we have so far is contradictory.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:01 pm

agent5 wrote:
and that's it. Unless it comes directly from Tony, it isn't contradictory.

What people have relayed from discussions with Tony is in a sense second hand and it is, and has been stated by individuals as, from memory only.

Only Tony can contradict himself
No, it doesn't matter who the info came from. The statements we've been given thus far have been contradictory. I think you'll see the definition is in order in this situation.

con·tra·dic·to·ry (kntr-dkt-r)
adj.
1. Involving, of the nature of, or being a contradiction. See Synonyms at opposite.
2. Given to contradicting.
n. pl. con·tra·dic·to·ries Logic
Either of two propositions related in such a way that it is impossible for both to be true or both to be false

So far it's been members here who's statements contradict one another, not Tony himself. Tony can certainly contradict himself and may well be, but we won't know until he posts here because we are getting second hand info. Either way, what we have so far is contradictory.

I agree there have been contradictory statements between members. Those statements are also largely based on assumptions.
Those statements by members are the ones which should not at this point be taken as entirely factual, and cannot be considered to be contradictory to statements from Tony himself, which to this point have been NIL.
It seems some are taking members statements as gospel, when they cannot be. Therefore my position that there is nothing contradictory as far as Tony is concerned.

as I've suggested before, people can and should contact Tony directly. No one else here has a definitive answer.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:11 pm

the thing is, _ came in and gave statements that contradicted with what Tony is telling people thats why some of us are really confused.

indyrocks · Post by **indyrocks** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:17 pm

RCSignals wrote:
agent5 wrote:
and that's it. Unless it comes directly from Tony, it isn't contradictory.

What people have relayed from discussions with Tony is in a sense second hand and it is, and has been stated by individuals as, from memory only.

Only Tony can contradict himself
No, it doesn't matter who the info came from. The statements we've been given thus far have been contradictory. I think you'll see the definition is in order in this situation.

con·tra·dic·to·ry (kntr-dkt-r)
adj.
1. Involving, of the nature of, or being a contradiction. See Synonyms at opposite.
2. Given to contradicting.
n. pl. con·tra·dic·to·ries Logic
Either of two propositions related in such a way that it is impossible for both to be true or both to be false

So far it's been members here who's statements contradict one another, not Tony himself. Tony can certainly contradict himself and may well be, but we won't know until he posts here because we are getting second hand info. Either way, what we have so far is contradictory.
I agree there have been contradictory statements between members. Those statements are also largely based on assumptions.
Those statements by members are the ones which should not at this point be taken as entirely factual, and cannot be considered to be contradictory to statements from Tony himself, which to this point have been NIL.
It seems some are taking members statements as gospel, when they cannot be. Therefore my position that there is nothing contradictory as far as Tony is concerned.

as I've suggested before, people can and should contact Tony directly. No one else here has a definitive answer.

I agree that nothing should be held as gospel until it comes directly from Tony to the public. However, many members HAVE contacted him, and some have visited as well. They directly reported what they were told by Tony, seems pretty definitive to me.

While I realize some things are lost in translation I don't think people are skewing the truth, or what Tony told them, that much. Chris even showed us text from an email. A lot of this doesn't add up, and earlier it was mentioned that there may be something going on "behind the scenes," or something to that effect, that we simply aren't privy to yet. I would be willing to bet that this may be what the scenario really is.

RCS-I hope you don't take what I'm saying as confrontational. As I read through these posts many reliable members who have talked directly to Tony seem to be hearing different things. I'm not saying Tony is lying or ANYTHING like that. I just think SOMETHING is going on than will eventually have light shed on it.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:28 pm

I'm with agent5 on this.
Although Tony hasn't POSTED here directly, he's certainly given info directly to people who have called him, visited him or emailed him. _'s source has also provided information that doesn't seem to match up with what Tony has said - indirectly or not.

I agree that until Tony finds the time to spill the beans on this, everything else is just going to be open to opinion. I find it hard to believe that after 21 pages of posts, we STILL don't have anything that we could call a "definitive" answer to any of our questions.

Hopefully Tony will put our minds at ease some day. I don't think I'll be purchasing anything until I know what I'm going to get is truly a replica of a real jacket that he's had in hand.

He definitely needs to address this leather choice because I can't find any pics of any jackets which look like this all over. Sizing is also an issue because Tony has told people that the jackets he had were 42 and 44. We know that Ford didn't wear a 44 until Last Crusade and the NH Hero jacket is a 40.

Many questions need to be answered and many "theories" need to be confirmed or dismissed.

Chris

RCSignals wrote:
I agree there have been contradictory statements between members. Those statements are also largely based on assumptions.
Those statements by members are the ones which should not at this point be taken as entirely factual, and cannot be considered to be contradictory to statements from Tony himself, which to this point have been NIL.
It seems some are taking members statements as gospel, when they cannot be. Therefore my position that there is nothing contradictory as far as Tony is concerned.

as I've suggested before, people can and should contact Tony directly. No one else here has a definitive answer.