Rare backtilt/bulge Raiders pic

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:16 pm

I took this picture off a pinball machine last night. I've checked, and this is not a frame from the film. Different camera angle, probably a production still. Not only the backtilt, look how little the front pinch tilts back. It's hard for me to believe the Raiders hat wasn't a 360 stovepipe, but a Poet with blocked in taper. Fedora and Marc both explored the 360. The missing element, the key, is that it is a too small, tight fitting 360 stovepipe, so it does't look TOO reverse tapered.

Now I'd like to get more specific about how tight I make Winston 360s. - About one quarter inch below your head size. -- Another thing, I have to start with a hat whose opening is at least 1/8 larger than your head measurement. For example, my head size is 22 1/4. I used a size 58 Fed 4 who's size range starts at 22 3/8. Do yourself a favor.

Get hardcore SA and buy a Winston 360. viewtopic.php?t=33266

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:45 pm

Hey, I tried!

Guess my hat to head ratio wouldn't work out for the FedIV I have.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:41 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:Hey, I tried! Guess my hat to head ratio wouldn't work out for the FedIV I have.

A Winston is more hat.

I have to start with something bigger than usual.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:21 pm

I know. But at least we found out based of the measurements before I sent you my hat!

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:14 am

Are you sure that's not from the film? Looks like this pic to me.

As for the back tilt of the pinch, it can look straighter than it actuall is if seen from less than exactly side on - I've noticed this with my own hats.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:35 am

Hey Whiskyman, thanks! That's the production shot! Look how tilted the camera was. I frame by framed that scene in the movie, couldn't find a frame to match. ...Well it's pretty close to side on, some of the Elstree views show a very gentle transition to backtilt in the front pinch, like this, and the hat on the Imam's table.

Which is like this one-

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:19 am

I never realised that shot is not a movie still - I should go back and watch it again.
With the front tilt, have you tried doing some frame by frame work on some of those scenes or maybe where Indy turns his head- maybe in the Raven bar? I just find that with my own hats even a very slight turn can make the front apear a little straighter than it actually is and also influences whether or not the sides seem a little tapered and whether any back tilt is present.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:14 am

AS I type Jimmy Page is playing "Whole Lotta Love" on top of a double dekker bus at the Olympics.

I know what you are saying, What I notice is the tilt of the front is at about the same angle as the back tilt in perfect sideshots, which is remarkable.

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:06 am

3thoubucks wrote:AS I type Jimmy Page is playing "Whole Lotta Love" on top of a double dekker bus at the Olympics. I know what you are saying, What I notice is the tilt of the front is at about the same angle as the back tilt in perfect sideshots, which is remarkable.

...and I missed my favourite musician of all time? Sonofa...

Anyway, don't forget that the Pinball Pic is heavily Photoshopped - allow a margin of error on the artist's part.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:58 am

It appears the Raiders fedora was more stove piped than some think. When I watch the behind the scenes films, I really get that feeling. My first attempts at recreating the block, were very stove piped. And, I eventually moved from it, then right back to it. So, we agree 3M$. One thing if for sure. I think you can get a better Raiders look with a more stove piped hat, than a tapered one.

Now, there were some tapered looking hats in Raiders. But, I think this was from a low back crease, and I think some of those hats actually shrunk and tapered in the heat. That is very logical, knowing the sort of felt that is and was around, even back in the 1980's. The taper proof felt came from decades prior to this, as any vintage(1930's to 1950's) hat owner will attest to.

The ideal Raiders fedora will give you those straight square looks, but also will give you the more tapered look, with crease job, or shrinkage. It really does need to be possible to get BOTH looks from a Raiders fedora, to be accurate. Fedora

Indiana Blooze · Post by **Indiana Blooze** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:29 pm

Hey 3thou, with this OCD that you have, you would make a very good dog trainer

Keep up the research, I find your work and theories fascinating

indyrocks · Post by **indyrocks** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:47 pm

Fedora wrote: The taper proof felt came from decades prior to this, as any vintage(1930's to 1950's) hat owner will attest to.

Fedora-

What makes felt taper proof? Is your AB felt taper proof? I realize this might be an obvious question but I'm not clear on it. The whole concept is quite fascinating to me actually. Any insights would be appreciated!

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:21 pm

What makes felt taper proof?

IMHO, dead fur. It takes years for the fur to actually die, and therefore not react to wetting and drying. Fedora

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:33 pm

Can't we just ask Desi (nicely) to measure the stove-pipeness/taper of the hero hat?

WalkingEye · Post by **WalkingEye** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:43 pm

ANZAC_1915 wrote:Can't we just ask Desi (nicely) to measure the stove-pipeness/taper of the hero hat?

i think the hero hat, being nearly thirty years old and made of rabbit, most definitely has tapered since ford wore it. so any measuing would be misleading. i think.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:53 am

Fedora wrote:
It really does need to be possible to get BOTH looks from a Raiders fedora, to be accurate. Fedora

Wearing my very tight Winston 360 everyday since I made it (2 months) for at least an hour a day (even though I keep it tipped up most of the time), yesterday I notice it doesn't feel so tight anymore. The base has stretched! The back tilt on the Elstree hat goes beyond the brim break, while the Cairo hat is about even with it. It could be due to stretching of the base. NOT shrinkage of the crown.

(Maybe that's what killed the brim curl too.)