G&B versus Todd

CM · Post by CM » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:03 am

Most of us agree that Todd's jacket is a bit more tweaked and accruate than the G&B. What are the key differences? What I guess I'm asking also is what are the differences between the G&B and the movie jacket?

This is what I've noticed about the G&B:

- The pockets are placed differently (the recent right G&B pocket is much closer to the zip).
- The zip doesn't go all the way down.
- The rear straps are stitched in differently.
- Lining (who cares?) now there are also some views that the movie jacket used satin.
- The G&B uses stronger, thicker lamb or goat (I like that, actually, but it does affect the drape a little).

Anything else? (By the way, none of these minor details matter to me, but I am interested.)

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:21 am

G&B's are very well built. But always look way too dressy. The piping is too chunky, the leather too shiny. Just doesn't look like an Indy jacket.
They capture what needs to be the spirit of an Indy jacket a bit. But then again they do not.

Both jackets have their own interpretation and they are whole different beasts.

The Todd's customs however. That might just be a winner, i've never seen a jacket look that much like the one in the movie. Just do a search for Chris King's jacket its like perfection!

CM · Post by CM » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:18 am

Dutch_jones wrote:... The piping is too chunky, the leather too shiny. Just doesn't look like an Indy jacket.
They capture what needs to be the spirit of an Indy jacket a bit. But then again they do not.

Sounds like you're describing a Wested...

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:07 am

I never saidthe wested looked like an accurate indy jacket either;)

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:21 am

to me..

wested still makes the best raiders jackets when they just really sit down with it.

bests
Holt

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:34 am

Dutch_jones wrote:G&B's are very well built. But always look way too dressy. The piping is too chunky, the leather too shiny. Just doesn't look like an Indy jacket.
They capture what needs to be the spirit of an Indy jacket a bit. But then again they do not.

Both jackets have their own interpretation and they are whole different beasts.

The Todd's customs however. That might just be a winner, i've never seen a jacket look that much like the one in the movie. Just do a search for Chris King's jacket its like perfection!

My understanding from what I have read here, the shine will wear off after a few months of wear, as the case with most chrome-tanned jackets, and the goat will soften and conform to one's shape over time.

Though I agree, that the distressed styles, like the TN, Wested Novapelle, or US Wings CE and vintage cowhide are closer in "look" when first pruchased than a G&B. But I guess if you are of a certain age, or already have distressed leather jackets, then the G&B "dressier" appearance might be more suitable.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:39 am

I would say the KEY difference is one jacket is more like a costume piece and the other is more like something made for everyday wear.

That's not to say one is bad, but how are you going to use the thing? If you want to dress a mannequin in a prop display or use the jacket for light wear, costuming, etc. one might be a better choice. If you want a jacket that you can wear daily, work in, and plan to do so for a decade or two that might be a different choice.

In my opinion, no Indy jacket is going to "look like" an Indy jacket until it has been worn for a year or two or three. Sure you can throw it in the wash or take the shine off, but it won't look worn until it has been worn. No need to get into talking about sandpaper, that's another discussion.

With something like the G&B you WILL need to wear it for quite a long time before it becomes "worn". Lots of people don't have the patience for that.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:44 am

G&B zipper pull is on the wrong side.

[EDIT: Apologies G&B I was sure I'd seen G&B's with the zipper on the US side. It was the US Wings that have them on the "Counter SA side"

.]

To be correct the zipper should have the pull under the storm flap. All 4 films have them this way.

BlueSkyz · Post by **BlueSkyz** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:45 am

Seems to me the bottom line is as mentioned above,wanna-be look a like jacket or the real thing,a jacket that IS meant for life's daily adventures.............

Prescott · Post by **Prescott** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:16 pm

You have to remember that when the final Expo was approved and people started ordering the jacket, certain problems were noticed in terms of fit an SA. As I recall,
_ and others from our little group sat down with the people at Flight suits to hammer out the details for the next “final Expo”. Their pattern expert was somewhat animated about changes that had to be made to make the product more durable. Compromises were reached. Where a seam or a pocket could be placed to make it more SA, that was fine. However, if it was felt that a design feature compromised jacket integrity, that feature had to be redesigned. For example, zipper placement. The Expo’s zipper does not extend to the bottom of the jacket due to stresses it would face when zipped and when the wearer sits down. A plain leather hem does not give like a woven fabric one. This final version lasted about two months before the next revision took place. This centered around the front patch pockets. Some here will remember the armor plated kidney protectors that were the 3 leather layer pockets. It made it almost impossible to sit comfortably with the jacket zipped up. The pockets were just to stiff. Side entry was the issue. Wested handles this by cutting into the side of the jacket and putting a pocket into the lining. G&B, on the other hand, stacks layers of leather and fabric on the outside to form a pocket. The new pocket removes a layer of leather replacing it with a more pliable fabric. Also about this time, a new lining product and design and scalloped pocket flaps were included in the next “final Expo”. Lastly, the new seal brown goat was added to the lineup. This all leads to answering the question: Is the Expedition an exact copy of the screen used jacket? Where practical, yes. Strictly speaking, no.

-P-

Prescott · Post by **Prescott** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:20 pm

The G&B zipper pull is a copy from the screen used stunt jacket and reflects its European origin.

-P-

Prescott · Post by **Prescott** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:26 pm

I should preface my last statement with the fact that my G&B is a few years old. It could very well be that their new jackets have the zip pull on the American side.

-P-

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:59 pm

Prescott wrote:I should preface my last statement with the fact that my G&B is a few years old. It could very well be that their new jackets have the zip pull on the American side.

-P-

Expeditions come with the zipper pull on the "British" side, standard. Many times I've had mine put on the otherside because in this country left sided zippers are for girls. I'll agree with the above statements that (even though the Expedition is one of the toughest Indiana Jones jackets out there), it is also the "dressiest". But seriously, it only takes a little bit of vision to see that an Expedition doesn't have to remain that way. Cheers

I hesitate to show these pics because this Expedition is a prototype. People jump to conclusions very easily on this board. They look at pictures without reading! Also this jacket is a size 46. I'm more of a 44 in Gibson & Barnes sizing. Take that for what it's worth.

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:13 pm

Rundquist wrote: I hesitate to show these pics because this Expedition is a prototype. People jump to conclusions very easily on this board. They look at pictures without reading!

"Prototype"? Of their rumored buffalo hide? Or is that a distressed cow/lamb/goat that G&B is considering offering to the public?

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:17 pm

bobjones wrote:
Rundquist wrote: I hesitate to show these pics because this Expedition is a prototype. People jump to conclusions very easily on this board. They look at pictures without reading!
"Prototype"? Of their rumored buffalo hide? Or is that a distressed cow/lamb/goat that G&B is considering offering to the public?

This jacket is from 1999. Cheers

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:23 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:
The Todd's customs however. That might just be a winner, i've never seen a jacket look that much like the one in the movie. Just do a search for Chris King's jacket its like perfection!

Just don't do any squat thrusts in it and you'll be fine.

Todd's done a nice job. I don't want to take anything away from him. However some of the guys that have the custom say that it's still not really a durable piece. When I heard that it stoped me dead in my tracks. I'm not after a costume piece. Many here however are. Cheers

BlueSkyz · Post by **BlueSkyz** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:38 pm

Just got a swatch of Buffallo hide from G&B. Everybody who wants a 'chocolate' color jacket is gonna be happy.[seal brown] It seems very tough and durable but a different grain structure than cow or goat. They are saying 2 months till production..........
And I specifically asked for a rh zipper vs the SA left pull on my Expedition. Buffalo,dark vintage nappa,both

[/img]

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:09 pm

Rundquist wrote:
Dutch_jones wrote:
The Todd's customs however. That might just be a winner, i've never seen a jacket look that much like the one in the movie. Just do a search for Chris King's jacket its like perfection!
Just don't do any squat thrusts in it and you'll be fine. Todd's done a nice job. I don't want to take anything away from him. However some of the guys that have the custom say that it's still not really a durable piece. When I heard that it stoped me dead in my tracks. I'm not after a costume piece. Many here however are. Cheers

Asking for a Raider's jacket to have the right cut, materials, and drape of the original as well as the ruggedness of a G&B is like asking for all the groceries to be put in the same bag and expecting the bag not to be heavy.

CM, I cannot say much about the G&B since I don't own one. All I can tell you is that I finally satisified my need to get a Raider's jacket when I got my Coyle's jacket. If I were looking to get another Indy jacket, one that looks good and comes with the reputation for near indestructability I would probably go with a G&B. On the other hand, all other issues aside, if you absolutely must have the Raider's jacket I highly recommend Todd's.

Weston

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:16 pm

The new Raiders Washed Goat from Wested looks very promising.....Raiders style, thin and light, good drape, and the durability of goat. I have the LC/CS washed goat and it's fantastic!

CM · Post by CM » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:29 pm

PSBIndy wrote:The new Raiders Washed Goat from Wested looks very promising.....Raiders style, thin and light, good drape, and the durability of goat. I have the LC/CS washed goat and it's fantastic!

Nice, but not really the focus of this thread. I'm trying to determine what the key differences are between a G&B and a Todds. Sounds like the G&B is almost identical (as I see it) except better made. There appear to be very few differences between the G&B and the film jacket too. If anyone can list any other concrete differences let's hear about them.
Cheers

JC1972 · Post by **JC1972** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:07 pm

Nothing beats a G & B. Wested is good but I've heard too many complaints. I don't want to risk getting from them to ship back across the pond.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:25 pm

The thing with Wested is they cater to as many requests and peculiarities that we all have. Peter does his best to do everything that is asked of him. When I visited Wested this spring he was working on a jacket for a COW member with 10 pages of requests...10 PAGES. I saw the pages. He puts up with a lot from us..IMO

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:37 pm

nicktheguy wrote:The thing with Wested is they cater to as many requests and peculiarities that we all have. Peter does his best to do everything that is asked of him. When I visited Wested this spring he was working on a jacket for a COW member with 10 pages of requests...10 PAGES. I saw the pages. He puts up with a lot from us..IMO

10 pages? Is he asking for a jacket to be built, or an aircraft carrier?

I took such a liking to Peter B that even though my G&B has yet to arrive (will in a few days) I will find an excuse to buy a jacket from him. He is all class, all the way.

And anyone who looks at the Novapelle and doesn't fall in love, well, that's just a gorgeous hide. Sorry, off topic...

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:57 pm

Since the thread starter has pointed it out, I'll reiterate - please stay on topic.

We've got a lot of threads to recommend your favorites or talk about the whole range of jackets. CM opened this thread just to nail down differences between the G&B and Todd's.

Thanks!