I've done a bit of searching but still don't really know what the difference is between Steve Delk's Adventurebilt hats and Marc's Adventurebilt Deluxe hats. The AB Deluxe website is of no help.
Is one totally handmade and the other not?
Thanks.
Dumb question- AB vs. AB Deluxe?
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Dalexs
-
TheMechanic
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:56 pm
- Location: In a skillet with potatoes & onions
-
Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44456
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
NOTE: All of this info is directly copied from Page 14 of the "AB Wait Times These Days" thread in this section.
Having owned two AB's from Steve and two AB Deluxes from Marc, I've got a bit of insight into each version. Here's my take:
The Adventurebilt is handmade by Steve Delk in Mississippi. He developed a replica of the block that was used to create the original Raiders fedora and refined it a bit over the years. In my opinion, it's extremely close to the original Raiders block. Current "regular" AB's are made from pure beaver felt sourced from a felt maker here in the US (Steve used to offer a more economical rabbit felt option as well). The sweatbands are quality leather and the liners are also top notch bridal satin (I think). The ribbon is the same as the original ribbon used on the Raiders hat (and other HJ's of that era). It's a very distinctive color and I've never seen another brand match it correctly. Steve hand makes each hat to your specifications, the waiting period and build time currently equals out to over a year. Steve makes a fine hat, the rabbit felt version I owned was one of my all time favorites. I also owned a pure beaver felt which was a very nice hat as well.
The Adventurebilt Deluxe is handmade by Marc Kitter in Germany. He also developed a version of the Raiders block that is very similar to Steve's, though it has some key differences to it. It is also extremely close to what I believe the original blockshape must have been like, but Marc has also adjusted the blockshape ever so slightly to compensate for potential shrinkage over years of heavy wear. The hat takes a Raiders bash quite naturally. Marc also offers the "Crystal Skull" block, which as the name implies, is the same blockshape used by both Marc & Steve for the new Indy film. This block is essentially identical to Steve's standard Raiders block.The felt is the finest pure beaver felt you can find anywhere in the world. Marc has his felt made specially for him in Portugal and it includes some extra water-proofing measures to ensure that your hat will keep your head dry in some of the worst weather. Marc's sweatbands are custom sourced and are made from pure Kangaroo hide (the same leather they make high quality bullwhips from). Roo hide was chosen for it's toughness and resistance to shrinkage (though the sweatbands are quite soft and extremely comfortable), yet again enabling years of heavy wear without having to worry about your hat shrinking. The liners are also the same high quality bridal satin as you find in the standard AB. The ribbon is the same as well (correct color, same as on the Raiders fedora). Marc's bow work is similar to Steve's, but he puts a bit more emphasis on the Raiders "flying V" I've found. The hats are handmade to your specs, like the standard AB hat, but also like the regular AB, be prepared to wait. I'm not certain what the timeframe is for turnaround on an ABD currently, but I *think* it's around 10 months. It's best to provide an actual head measurement, rather than a generic hat size, if you order one. Marc is excellent to work with if you have issues with brim width or crown height or the size of the hat itself. I spent some time working out the brim specs with Marc for my last order and the hat came out perfectly. It is now my favorite hat, ever (and having gone through about 11 different Indy fedoras over the course of almost 20 years, that's saying something).
Essentially, the AB is one Steve's idealized version of the Raiders fedora, made from the finest materials in the USA. The AB Deluxe is Marc's version, made from the finest materials in the world. Both hats put an emphasis on catering to the client's details and custom making the right hat for them, as well as a strong emphasis on quality materials that will hold up to years of extended wear. I didn't own either of my regular AB's long enough to get a feel for how they would hold up, but as I've stated elsewhere, both of my AB Deluxes have held up insanely well to lots of adverse weather conditions (tropical rains, weeks of extended wear in high heat and humidity, etc.) and extended wear and tear.
***********************************************
And here is Marc's own response to this question:
Ok, let's see... What is the same on the AB and the AB-Dlx. is the brand, the fanatism of the maker Laughing, the ribbon and on the CS Fedoras the block.
What's different... well pretty much the rest Wink
Ok, lazy answer. Perhaps I should sum it up and then I can refer to this thread next time I'm asked (tomorrow probably).
Let's start with the rawbodies. Steve purchases pure beaver dress rawbodies in the color of his choice from his felter and if he desires, he can buy as little as a single rawbody - which is a great advantage! When I started looking into the few felt suppliers left, I picked the one I'm still using, as he was able to deal with the list of specs. I threw at him ("worst customer ever" were his exact words). I wanted a particular colored pure beaver felt with a particular crown hight, brim width, weight, thickness, stiffness in the crown, stiffness in the brim, water repellent cooked into the felt, extra dense (30% denser than standard - which is the max. they can do) etc. etc. etc. - you get the idea. Though willing to do as requested, I was asked to buy a min. of 50 rawbodies a time if I wanted them to be made THAT specific and of course the price went up, up, up with every new idea that crossed my crazy mind on my way to THE rawbody Laughing So, have to shell out several grands whene ver I need new rawbodies. While the price has gone up a bit over the years, the Dollar has become weaker and weaker making the rawbodies even more expensive for those of you earning Dollars.
Ok, what's next... the pouncing. I spent LONG hours pouncing, going up to a 2000 grit to get a SUPER smooth surface, that is almost like silk or velvet. This doesn't make the hat more or less durable, however it adds a very luxus' appearence and feel to it (hence AB-Dlx.).
Cutting the brim is done equally not matter if Steve does so or me.
Sweatbands: the sweatbands I use come from traditionally tanned roo hides, tanned at a small family owned tannery in Australia to match my specs. (color, thickness, surface) Then they're shipped to me, forwarded to my sweatband maker and cut before the reading tape (made to my specs.) is added as requested (curve, stitches, "lip length") etc. etc. etc.
While a standard sweatband is round about 5 bucks, mine cost round about 45 bucks a piece. With 100 sweatbands min. per order, that puts me back with 4.5 grand each time. Just for sweatbands. The advantage of the roo hide is that it is a very dense and tough hide (which is why bullwhips are made from it ) and it hardly shrinks - which Steve found quite amazing after soaking his AB-Dlx. completely in sweat two days in a row without any ill effects. The disadvantage: you could get a decent blend rawbody for less. Every little thing on the AB-Dlx. is custom made and the price reflects that.
Liners: Both of us are using white satin liners. So the difference here is only the two color logo that I have put on mine and the smoother and denser bridal satin that I use (which again means 240 pieces min. requirement). Both are sewn in by hand in opposite to using hot glue or similar.
Blocks: using an English block maker for my Raiders blocks and the blocks used for the CS hats and having them made of heavy mahagony, I had to spend 300 Euro (450$) per block! This is plain said outrageous, which is why I had the last blocks made in the US from poplar.
All this summed together and added the German rip off taxes (I think anyone over here can attest to that) plus more than 70$ for the shipping, makes the AB-Dlx cost what it does. The weak Dollar does the rest. When I purchased my Optimos back then, I had to spend 1.2 Euro for one Dollar. Now it's 1.48 Dollar for a single Euro Shocked Or in other words: if the Dollar would still be 1.2 Euro, my hats would cost 330$ incl. shipping to the US. This would be less than a reg. AB WITHOUT shipping Shocked But alas, this is something I have no influence on.
===
(Note: the conversion rate has worsened slightly since this answer was posted. It's currently 1.53 Dollars per Euro now.)
Hope this helps
-GCR
Having owned two AB's from Steve and two AB Deluxes from Marc, I've got a bit of insight into each version. Here's my take:
The Adventurebilt is handmade by Steve Delk in Mississippi. He developed a replica of the block that was used to create the original Raiders fedora and refined it a bit over the years. In my opinion, it's extremely close to the original Raiders block. Current "regular" AB's are made from pure beaver felt sourced from a felt maker here in the US (Steve used to offer a more economical rabbit felt option as well). The sweatbands are quality leather and the liners are also top notch bridal satin (I think). The ribbon is the same as the original ribbon used on the Raiders hat (and other HJ's of that era). It's a very distinctive color and I've never seen another brand match it correctly. Steve hand makes each hat to your specifications, the waiting period and build time currently equals out to over a year. Steve makes a fine hat, the rabbit felt version I owned was one of my all time favorites. I also owned a pure beaver felt which was a very nice hat as well.
The Adventurebilt Deluxe is handmade by Marc Kitter in Germany. He also developed a version of the Raiders block that is very similar to Steve's, though it has some key differences to it. It is also extremely close to what I believe the original blockshape must have been like, but Marc has also adjusted the blockshape ever so slightly to compensate for potential shrinkage over years of heavy wear. The hat takes a Raiders bash quite naturally. Marc also offers the "Crystal Skull" block, which as the name implies, is the same blockshape used by both Marc & Steve for the new Indy film. This block is essentially identical to Steve's standard Raiders block.The felt is the finest pure beaver felt you can find anywhere in the world. Marc has his felt made specially for him in Portugal and it includes some extra water-proofing measures to ensure that your hat will keep your head dry in some of the worst weather. Marc's sweatbands are custom sourced and are made from pure Kangaroo hide (the same leather they make high quality bullwhips from). Roo hide was chosen for it's toughness and resistance to shrinkage (though the sweatbands are quite soft and extremely comfortable), yet again enabling years of heavy wear without having to worry about your hat shrinking. The liners are also the same high quality bridal satin as you find in the standard AB. The ribbon is the same as well (correct color, same as on the Raiders fedora). Marc's bow work is similar to Steve's, but he puts a bit more emphasis on the Raiders "flying V" I've found. The hats are handmade to your specs, like the standard AB hat, but also like the regular AB, be prepared to wait. I'm not certain what the timeframe is for turnaround on an ABD currently, but I *think* it's around 10 months. It's best to provide an actual head measurement, rather than a generic hat size, if you order one. Marc is excellent to work with if you have issues with brim width or crown height or the size of the hat itself. I spent some time working out the brim specs with Marc for my last order and the hat came out perfectly. It is now my favorite hat, ever (and having gone through about 11 different Indy fedoras over the course of almost 20 years, that's saying something).
Essentially, the AB is one Steve's idealized version of the Raiders fedora, made from the finest materials in the USA. The AB Deluxe is Marc's version, made from the finest materials in the world. Both hats put an emphasis on catering to the client's details and custom making the right hat for them, as well as a strong emphasis on quality materials that will hold up to years of extended wear. I didn't own either of my regular AB's long enough to get a feel for how they would hold up, but as I've stated elsewhere, both of my AB Deluxes have held up insanely well to lots of adverse weather conditions (tropical rains, weeks of extended wear in high heat and humidity, etc.) and extended wear and tear.
***********************************************
And here is Marc's own response to this question:
Ok, let's see... What is the same on the AB and the AB-Dlx. is the brand, the fanatism of the maker Laughing, the ribbon and on the CS Fedoras the block.
What's different... well pretty much the rest Wink
Ok, lazy answer. Perhaps I should sum it up and then I can refer to this thread next time I'm asked (tomorrow probably).
Let's start with the rawbodies. Steve purchases pure beaver dress rawbodies in the color of his choice from his felter and if he desires, he can buy as little as a single rawbody - which is a great advantage! When I started looking into the few felt suppliers left, I picked the one I'm still using, as he was able to deal with the list of specs. I threw at him ("worst customer ever" were his exact words). I wanted a particular colored pure beaver felt with a particular crown hight, brim width, weight, thickness, stiffness in the crown, stiffness in the brim, water repellent cooked into the felt, extra dense (30% denser than standard - which is the max. they can do) etc. etc. etc. - you get the idea. Though willing to do as requested, I was asked to buy a min. of 50 rawbodies a time if I wanted them to be made THAT specific and of course the price went up, up, up with every new idea that crossed my crazy mind on my way to THE rawbody Laughing So, have to shell out several grands whene ver I need new rawbodies. While the price has gone up a bit over the years, the Dollar has become weaker and weaker making the rawbodies even more expensive for those of you earning Dollars.
Ok, what's next... the pouncing. I spent LONG hours pouncing, going up to a 2000 grit to get a SUPER smooth surface, that is almost like silk or velvet. This doesn't make the hat more or less durable, however it adds a very luxus' appearence and feel to it (hence AB-Dlx.).
Cutting the brim is done equally not matter if Steve does so or me.
Sweatbands: the sweatbands I use come from traditionally tanned roo hides, tanned at a small family owned tannery in Australia to match my specs. (color, thickness, surface) Then they're shipped to me, forwarded to my sweatband maker and cut before the reading tape (made to my specs.) is added as requested (curve, stitches, "lip length") etc. etc. etc.
While a standard sweatband is round about 5 bucks, mine cost round about 45 bucks a piece. With 100 sweatbands min. per order, that puts me back with 4.5 grand each time. Just for sweatbands. The advantage of the roo hide is that it is a very dense and tough hide (which is why bullwhips are made from it ) and it hardly shrinks - which Steve found quite amazing after soaking his AB-Dlx. completely in sweat two days in a row without any ill effects. The disadvantage: you could get a decent blend rawbody for less. Every little thing on the AB-Dlx. is custom made and the price reflects that.
Liners: Both of us are using white satin liners. So the difference here is only the two color logo that I have put on mine and the smoother and denser bridal satin that I use (which again means 240 pieces min. requirement). Both are sewn in by hand in opposite to using hot glue or similar.
Blocks: using an English block maker for my Raiders blocks and the blocks used for the CS hats and having them made of heavy mahagony, I had to spend 300 Euro (450$) per block! This is plain said outrageous, which is why I had the last blocks made in the US from poplar.
All this summed together and added the German rip off taxes (I think anyone over here can attest to that) plus more than 70$ for the shipping, makes the AB-Dlx cost what it does. The weak Dollar does the rest. When I purchased my Optimos back then, I had to spend 1.2 Euro for one Dollar. Now it's 1.48 Dollar for a single Euro Shocked Or in other words: if the Dollar would still be 1.2 Euro, my hats would cost 330$ incl. shipping to the US. This would be less than a reg. AB WITHOUT shipping Shocked But alas, this is something I have no influence on.
===
(Note: the conversion rate has worsened slightly since this answer was posted. It's currently 1.53 Dollars per Euro now.)
Hope this helps
-GCR
-
Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44456
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
-
TheMechanic
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:56 pm
- Location: In a skillet with potatoes & onions
-
myamoebafriend
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:26 am
- Location: Birmingham, AL
-
myamoebafriend
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:26 am
- Location: Birmingham, AL
Ah, here it is...
Marc wrote:Lemme make a comparisson and hope that it's understood as intended. I get a LOT of e-mails and pm's asking the difference between the AB and AB-Dlx. and perhaps I can answer this as well to a certain degree.
Ok, the goal with the AB was to make a high end and 100% screen accurate Indy Fedora completely by hand and thereby keeping it available for the average Indyfan. This mission was accomplished and the success speaks for itself.
The goal with the AB-Dlx. was simply to make the best Indy Fedora possible and then the costs would determine the price. I think I succeeded as well, if I'm allowed to say so without sounding arrogant.
Now, what IS an Indy Fedora? - To us (Steve and me) an Indy Fedora is a hat that can take a good beatin' and then some more and still be worn at the restaurant at night. Pretty much what we see on screen.
The AB is like a Hummer. Built to last with a cool attitude to it and able to climb the hills and make it's way through the mudd.
The AB-Dlx. is like a Hummer with a few extras incl. leather seats, an aircondition and an extra layer of polished paint coat.
Now, even if you'd add 30" wheels, a stereo and some extra lights on the roof it would STILL be a Hummer, no? And it would still do it's job in the dirt just as good as always. Just because YOU (no-one particular, so please don't see any puns comming from me) don't feel like mudracing with your Hummer due to the polished surface and the noise that would ruin the pleassure of you 4k Watt stereo, doesn't take away any of it's abilities to do so, right? - But for some it's just good to know that you COULD and a few ones (like my good friend G-Mann) actually DO just that, because they actually PREFER "mudracing in leather seats" with the "stereo turned up". Is it worth the extra money? - Heck, to some it is, or I wouldn't be that far behind. And to others it's a bloody waste on a "piece of clothing" / car / leather jacket whatsoever.
The choice is yours, but PLEASE don't let the polished surface "blind" you
Regards,
Marc
-
Mark Brody
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 7:16 pm
- Location: Omaha
-
LANDINGPARTY
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am
- Location: Los Angeles
Both Marc and Steve made hats for the movie. Read the answers above and decide what you want to spend. You are getting the best hat no matter which way you go. Just decide if you want the best or even more of the best at a higher price.LANDINGPARTY wrote:So what is generally prefered the delux or AB? Also am correct in saying the AB is more SA for KotCS than the delux?
Only you know your spending limit...
I would say most folks lean towards the standard AB due to the fact that Steve has been offering his hats longer and his prices have been lower. But I also know more than a few folks (myself included) who prefer the Deluxe. I'm an everyday hat-wearer and I want to make sure my hats will hold up. Marc goes the extra mile to source materials for his hats that will last for many, many years, so for me, the extra money spent on the Deluxe is well worth it. But make no mistake, both are fine hats, it's really just a matter of personal taste.LANDINGPARTY wrote:So what is generally prefered the delux or AB? Also am correct in saying the AB is more SA for KotCS than the delux?
And no, you are not correct in your assumption. Both Marc and Steve made hats for the film and both men can provide you with a screen-accurate KOTCS hat, if you desire one.
-
myamoebafriend
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:26 am
- Location: Birmingham, AL
So the standard and the deluxe were both used in the movie?GCR wrote:And no, you are not correct in your assumption. Both Marc and Steve made hats for the film and both men can provide you with a screen-accurate KOTCS hat, if you desire one.LANDINGPARTY wrote:So what is generally prefered the delux or AB? Also am correct in saying the AB is more SA for KotCS than the delux?
-
Dr. Nebraska S.
- Moderator
- Posts: 5415
- Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:05 pm
- Location: Nebraska
Yep! The story is available on the IndyGear main page here:myamoebafriend wrote:So the standard and the deluxe were both used in the movie?GCR wrote:And no, you are not correct in your assumption. Both Marc and Steve made hats for the film and both men can provide you with a screen-accurate KOTCS hat, if you desire one.LANDINGPARTY wrote:So what is generally prefered the delux or AB? Also am correct in saying the AB is more SA for KotCS than the delux?
http://www.indygear.com/igfedora.html
And more details about both Marc and Steve's involvement here:
http://www.indygear.com/igABstory.html
which states:
best wishes,Worried that there not be any variation in the multitude of hats to be supplied, Bernie first wanted to have all hats come only from Steve. This troubled Steve who told Bernie that the two men had made a pact when first approached that no matter whose pattern was chosen, both hatters would work on hats that ended up in production. Luckilly this didn't remain an issue for more than a day when Bernie called the following afternoon to say that it would be alright to have both hatters work on the hats provided they be sent to Steve first to make sure all pouncing and shaping were identical throughout. Having the same blocks and felts, this process went rather smoothly, with Steve sending the remainder of the order to Bernie throughout the shoot.
Nebraska Schulte
-
LANDINGPARTY
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am
- Location: Los Angeles
-
Chewie Louie
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 587
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:39 pm
- Location: Florida
-
BendingOak
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 7011
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:21 pm
-
LANDINGPARTY
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am
- Location: Los Angeles
-
LANDINGPARTY
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am
- Location: Los Angeles
-
Indycrazy5187
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 4:47 pm
- Location: NY, NY
Oh no, keep your hands off the AB...Indycrazy5187 wrote:my friend has an AB Dlx and it's amazing..I keep telling him to put pics on COW....he gets mad when I come over and put it on because his head is smaller than mine.
Mine will be attached to a tranquilizer gun that shoots anyone touching my future AB when not on my head. After being tranquilized they will be dragged out to the street corner wearing a big sign that says:
I love my Dorkman Pacific...
With all respect to Steve, I chose an AB Deluxe because:
-- I wanted the best Indy fedora money can buy
-- I emailed and PM'd Steve multiple times and never got a reply
-- and I didn't have any interest in doing business with someone who didn't have adequate communication.
-- Marc (the maker of the AB Deluxe) offered great customer service through the entire process
If that sounds overly critical, it's not. Steve (and Marc, for that matter) is certainly in a seller's market so perhaps Steve knows that he's going to sell the same number of hats whether he answers emails or not. I just don't do business that way.
So, I bought an AB Deluxe. And -- with all other issues aside -- this hat is like nothing else I've ever seen. It's magnificent. The quality of this felt....the quality of the sweatband....the higher quality bridal satin in the lining.....it's incredible.
So, in MY opinion, the AB Deluxe is worth every penny...and has far more value than you're paying for.
Tony
-- I wanted the best Indy fedora money can buy
-- I emailed and PM'd Steve multiple times and never got a reply
-- and I didn't have any interest in doing business with someone who didn't have adequate communication.
-- Marc (the maker of the AB Deluxe) offered great customer service through the entire process
If that sounds overly critical, it's not. Steve (and Marc, for that matter) is certainly in a seller's market so perhaps Steve knows that he's going to sell the same number of hats whether he answers emails or not. I just don't do business that way.
So, I bought an AB Deluxe. And -- with all other issues aside -- this hat is like nothing else I've ever seen. It's magnificent. The quality of this felt....the quality of the sweatband....the higher quality bridal satin in the lining.....it's incredible.
So, in MY opinion, the AB Deluxe is worth every penny...and has far more value than you're paying for.
Tony
-
Indycrazy5187
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 4:47 pm
- Location: NY, NY
gabrielle wrote:Oh no, keep your hands off the AB...Indycrazy5187 wrote:my friend has an AB Dlx and it's amazing..I keep telling him to put pics on COW....he gets mad when I come over and put it on because his head is smaller than mine.
Mine will be attached to a tranquilizer gun that shoots anyone touching my future AB when not on my head. After being tranquilized they will be dragged out to the street corner wearing a big sign that says:
I love my Dorkman Pacific...
this is probably the best and most funniest post i've seen yet
