Hi All
I've been aiming for a kind of 'generic' Raiders bash with my Fed IV deluxe and have got to this which I'm pretty happy with...
But I'm just wondering if I were aiming for a SOC bash would I need a hat with reverse taper?
Has the ribbon been tightened to cause that mushroom effect? Is the centre dent really shallow in that bash to allow that reverse taper? Is this one of the bashes where they sat on the hat?
I'm just wondering how far one can 'push' the Fed IV in the Raiders style. Experts?
What you would need isn't a hat with reverse taper, but the right block shape (which your fed4 should have) and a pretty fat turn. The SOC hat was, unless I'm mistaken, the most turned hat, which gave it a very boxy appearance and reverse taper.
Cheers, mufflowne. The 'turn' is putting the front pinch in about an inch off centre, right? Towards the bow? Is it then out of alignment with the centre dent?
Ok, another turn question. Here's a repost from an earler thread...
Johnny Fedora wrote:As far as turning the hat there are a few thoughts on this. (And I know going into it that I'll leave something out but...) As near as we can tell (thanks 3 thoubucks and Steve) the Raiders Fedora was in key sequences and I quote..."The front pinch in the Raiders crown was installed about 2/3 of a inch OFF CENTER. Therefore, the hat was worn "turned" about 2/3 inch OFF CENTER.
Thus, every element of the hat is asymmetrical, and, the hat is actively coping with distortion, giving it a certain lively tension." To sum up, it's this turn that gives the Raiders Fedora the distinctive brim warp and thus adds to the look so many of us look for in the Raiders hat. For more info on this check out...www.raidershat.com. Reverse engineering at its' finest.
Johnny
It's not just the front pinch though. The whole bash is aligned off center, so the pinch and dent are togeather. What do you think?
Johnny
p.s. This is also why the bow is actually in front of the left ear as opposed to right over it.
Thanks, Johnny. That link makes interesting reading. But I'm guessing you put the 'turn' in once a bash is established? Otherwise, if you're going directly from an open crown hat, you've simply moved the bow forward?
No. The turn goes in pre-bash or you'll have to redo the bash. You might think you've only moved the bow fwd but you'd be wrong, you've done alot more. A hat isn't a circle, it's an oval with a front and a back. When a hat is turned you can tell by looking straight down on the hat, the crown looks off center from the rest of the hat. So here's what happens...you take oh, say a new open crowned hat out of the box, put it on your head and while looking in a mirrior turn it a bit till to your right untill you have the right amount of brim warp or distortion to the crown you want. Now, wherever that is stop. Now look again, thats the new front of your hat. Now put in the bash and creases and there you go.
Basically you want the bow to be in front of your ear when you put the hat on. it will make the hat feel warped but it will accumulate to your headshape.
If you want to understand how the turn works, do this. pop out the bashes and wear your hat turned 90 degrees from where you'd normally wear it. What you should notice immediately is the way the brim warps and how the crown develops an insane reverse taper. In essence, those are the 2 things that are key to the SOC bash, only in a less exaggerated fashion. The amount of turn required for a SOC bash depends on your head shape. Long ovals like Harrison Ford need only a little bit of turn in a regular oval hat to create the desired effect. Round ovals require ways more turn to get the right effect. Essentially it's impossible for me to get the proper brim warp and reverse taper unless I wear the hat about 45 degrees off center or more. This is because the intrinsic key to the turn is how much the front and back of your head are pushing the front and back of the hat which cause the side to pull in, thus causing reverse taper from the front and back view.
i asked the same question many moons ago.....how do you grow a cairo mushroom.
answer: sit on the hat
that's the quickest way to do it. the felt needs to be crushed and worked out so that it bulges. now if you're too scared to do that, and this is what steve told me, lightly (and i cannot stress that any more......especially to AC ) steam the crown and then wack the top with a ruler like you're a mother superior scolding one of her pupils in the 1950's.....work away at that....it'll take a while....kinda the same time it took andy to dig out of shawshank prison....but you'll get there
if you go with the dynamite route to break out of prison.....sit on the hat, then bring her back to shape with your hands. its an akubra, you won't hurt it. you'll put stress lines and wrinkle lines in the felt, but hey, you wanted the SOC look. that doesn't come in with the felt looking pristine.
Indiana G wrote:i asked the same question many moons ago.....how do you grow a cairo mushroom.
answer: sit on the hat
that's the quickest way to do it. the felt needs to be crushed and worked out so that it bulges. now if you're too scared to do that, and this is what steve told me, lightly (and i cannot stress that any more......especially to AC ) steam the crown and then wack the top with a ruler like you're a mother superior scolding one of her pupils in the 1950's.....work away at that....it'll take a while....kinda the same time it took andy to dig out of shawshank prison....but you'll get there
personally, i would stay away from steaming if i were you though, i've ruined many a hats that way, and in the end i realize that it's actually just as easy without the steaming. Steaming looks great for 5 minutes, before your hat shrinks to the size of a california raisin.
I'm pretty sure most us here have seen the turn in action, but for the newer guys...
Here's a visual aid to the theory of the turn. Alongside sitting on the hat to create the mushroom effect, the turn is a definite necessity. To demonstrate I use a non-Indy fedora to show how the turn creates instant SOC look.
Here's a "moderate" turn.
Notice because I have a round oval head, I have to turn a lot more to get even close to the right amount of distortion.
Here's a 90 degree turn.
If turned even farther, the effect of the turn to create the hallmarks of the SOC hat is unmistakable albeit exaggerated. There is ridiculous reverse taper from the front view, and side views develop the distinctive bird beak brim.
Thanks, guys. This is all really interesting and helpful. I did realise later that of course the hat isn't round It's the fact you have the oval askew that creates that 'lively tension'. I shall experiment!
Morgan personally love the bash on this hat as you have it know. I have a pretty tight pinch at the front but still cannot get that tall boxy look with the dents. It must have to do with the fact I have a small head and small hat.
Scot2525, I asked about this on a separate thread. Apparently the dimensions of the Fed IV are the same regardless of hat size - that is crown height and brim width. So the same bash should be achievable regardless of hat size. Make sure your centre dent isn't so deep as to cause taper - you want to keep the 'stove-pipe' look. Then when you're working on the tight pinch make sure you're keeping the width of the hat the same by compensating with the side dents. Hard to explain - there's a good tutorial around here somewhere. The material you 'lose' in the pinch causes the front slope (from a profile view) and shouldn't sacrifice width.
I' m with G. You have to sit on the hat. You have to crush it, flatten it, get it to crease along the edge of the ribbon. The Cairo hat is extremely relaxed, almost to the point where the turn doesn't affect the swoop anymore. And yeah, I think it's assumed that the ribbon was cinched tighter to compensate for the felt getting loose and sloppy. If you want to go even a step further, you might take an iron to the brim break, to help relax it to get that characteristic droopy brim.
If you want the correct Cairo look, you can't be timid... you have to be totally brutal to your hat.
) steam the crown and then wack the top with a ruler like you're a mother superior scolding one of her pupils in the 1950's.....work away at that....it'll take a while....kinda the same time it took andy to dig out of shawshank prison....but you'll get there 
It's the fact you have the oval askew that creates that 'lively tension'. I shall experiment!
