Collector's Hat

IndianaJack91 · Post by **IndianaJack91** » Tue May 27, 2008 10:09 pm

I am just wondering what hat would be the best memorbilia hat to own. Any suggestions?

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Tue May 27, 2008 10:47 pm

What do you mean? Liscensed or screen accurate?

IndianaJack91 · Post by **IndianaJack91** » Tue May 27, 2008 10:49 pm

screen accurate

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Tue May 27, 2008 11:01 pm

Well the best as far as SA is concerned, and what everyone here will tell you is Adventurebilt. However, with a $400 price tag, those are out of the question for a lot of people (like me).

But what I would recommend, and a lot of other people here as well, is the Akubra Federation from HatsDirect. I have one and I love it. They are absolutely great hats and are very tough and durable. They do come open crown and so you have to bash them yourself. At first I found this intimidating but it's really not hard at all and allows you to shape it to which ever style of hat you prefer. Raiders, ToD, etc. And the best part is the price which is only aroung $100!

WalkingEye · Post by **WalkingEye** » Tue May 27, 2008 11:42 pm

you could go with the new camptown model. it's the AB block on a factory made beaver blend hat. it goes for about half the price of an actual AB these days.

IndianaJack91 · Post by **IndianaJack91** » Tue May 27, 2008 11:56 pm

I do have a Herbert Johnson for Raiders, but i am wondering if there is anyway to get the fedora used in Last Crusade

Indiana · Post by **Indiana** » Wed May 28, 2008 12:05 am

Herbert Johnson fedoras were used in LC and ToD as well.

IndianaJack91 · Post by **IndianaJack91** » Wed May 28, 2008 12:20 am

I thought Stetson and Baron hats were used in ToD

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Wed May 28, 2008 12:32 am

It is unsure if Baron's Hat or Stetsons were actually used on screen. The hats in the first three films were HJs.

IndianaBogart · Post by **IndianaBogart** » Wed May 28, 2008 9:09 am

You could use a HJ for a LC bash. But if you don't want to spend the $$ for another HJ then a Federation IV should work for you. I put a Raiders bash in my Fed, but I've seen several people on here put a LC bash on the Federations, and they had great results. The Feds seem to have little/no taper which would be almost perfect for a LC bash.

And from what I've read Federations seem to be more durable than modern HJs.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed May 28, 2008 2:05 pm

IndianaJack91 wrote:I thought Stetson and Baron hats were used in ToD

They were used in product placement, so technically they DID appear in the film...but it was an HJ as the hero hat for TofD.

Regards! Michaelson

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Wed May 28, 2008 2:54 pm

Michaelson wrote:
IndianaJack91 wrote:I thought Stetson and Baron hats were used in ToD
They were used in product placement, so technically they DID appear in the film...but it was an HJ as the hero hat for TofD.

Regards! Michaelson

But doesn't product placement mean that the product is identified as that product? For instance Indy drinks a soda ( not any soda but a Coca Cola? )

Is there a scene where we can identify the hats as a Baron and/or a Stetson?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:00 pm

Not necessarily...especially when it comes to costume type pieces such as hats or jackets, in this particular case.

All the film producer has to prove to a vendor is that such and such an item DID appear in a film so that vendor can then advertise the product as 'appearing' in said film.

Regards! Michaelson

Georgia Jones · Post by **Georgia Jones** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:37 pm

The Fed IV takes a perfect LC bash right out of the box...takes about 60 seconds to bash it, I left mine like this for a couple of days before misting down with water to get the tighter raiders pinch....

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Wed May 28, 2008 4:05 pm

Personally I would go for a Camptown, but that is just me. It's a good durable hat that is much easier on the pocketbook. Give Ken (Jersey Jones) a jingle and have a chat with him, or you can PM or e-mail him too. He's a pip to work with and will bend over backwards to get you what you want in his hats.

Cheers!

Dan

TheChimp · Post by **TheChimp** » Wed May 28, 2008 6:45 pm

Michaelson wrote: All the film producer has to prove to a vendor is that such and such an item DID appear in a film so that vendor can then advertise the product as 'appearing' in said film.

Which makes me wonder if there any DP hats used in Crystal Skull. There were a lot of people in the background of various scenes that might've had them after all, even if Dr. Jones himself never wore one. I can't really imagine that they'd put one on Ford. They just look too different from the AB to fit in.

IndianaJack91 · Post by **IndianaJack91** » Wed May 28, 2008 7:00 pm

so adventurebilt would be the best?

IndianaJack91 · Post by **IndianaJack91** » Wed May 28, 2008 7:04 pm

how much are the factory ABs going for

Digger · Post by **Digger** » Wed May 28, 2008 7:41 pm

Also call Lee Keppler about his NEW hat. He can e-mail you a pic of it.I looks like a famous fedora.

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Thu May 29, 2008 7:02 am

Aeris_Canon wrote:
TheChimp wrote:
Michaelson wrote: All the film producer has to prove to a vendor is that such and such an item DID appear in a film so that vendor can then advertise the product as 'appearing' in said film.
Which makes me wonder if there any DP hats used in Crystal Skull. There were a lot of people in the background of various scenes that might've had them after all, even if Dr. Jones himself never wore one. I can't really imagine that they'd put one on Ford. They just look too different from the AB to fit in.
I've never heard of this as a means of "product placement" before. If the product cannot be identified by brand it is NOT an instance of product placement.

Exactly NO logo means it is not product placement.

TheChimp · Post by **TheChimp** » Thu May 29, 2008 10:21 am

Dutch_jones wrote:
Aeris_Canon wrote:
TheChimp wrote:
Michaelson wrote: All the film producer has to prove to a vendor is that such and such an item DID appear in a film so that vendor can then advertise the product as 'appearing' in said film.
Which makes me wonder if there any DP hats used in Crystal Skull. There were a lot of people in the background of various scenes that might've had them after all, even if Dr. Jones himself never wore one. I can't really imagine that they'd put one on Ford. They just look too different from the AB to fit in.
I've never heard of this as a means of "product placement" before. If the product cannot be identified by brand it is NOT an instance of product placement.

Exactly NO logo means it is not product placement.

The question doesn't revolve around "product placement" so much as contractual obligation. As part of the license agreement, did DP insist that one or more of their hats be used in the production (not necessarily by Ford himself) so that they could claim "... as seen in..." credit?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu May 29, 2008 12:14 pm

Well, as an example, I do know that Cooper/Wings hired a French law firm to hand carry their jackets to Sri Lanka to the set of Tof D, physically hand the jackets to Noel Howard, then stand and watch them put one of the jackets on Ford and see Spielberg shoot a scene with Ford wearing the jacket before they signed off on the contract that a Cooper/Wings jacket had actually appeared in the film and was used in product placement in the film. The scene that they was watched was the elephant walk.

It was this confusing situation that started many of us down the wrong road that it was a French jacket maker who made the TofD jackets, as it was Noel Howard who said it was a Frenchman who handed him the jacket on set...so he honestly thought it might have been the maker, rather than a lawyer.

So, has anyone ever seen the tag in any of those jackets on screen? Me neither. The paperwork still exists that the product was placed in the film and proof of product placement.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu May 29, 2008 12:30 pm

It being a legal document, the contents were not completely shared with me, needless to say....but in a nut shell it confirmed that the representatives had personally hand delivered the items in question to the costumer, and personally witnessed the costumer place the item on Ford, then they personally watched Ford be filmed using 'said item' in the film the items had been contracted to be used for.

Like you mentioned above, though, sorry to have drug a jacket discussion into a hat thread....this was just an example I was personally aware of and came to mind first.

I've heard/read the same of Stetson hat placement for TodD as well.

The item HAD to appear somewhere in the film before the company could legally state 'the same as worn by Indiana Jones' in any of their advertisements, or they'd be sued right down to their last pair of socks by LucasFilm.

Regards! Michaelson

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Thu May 29, 2008 12:53 pm

Michaelson wrote:
IndianaJack91 wrote:I thought Stetson and Baron hats were used in ToD
They were used in product placement, so technically they DID appear in the film...but it was an HJ as the hero hat for TofD.

Regards! Michaelson

That is not entirely correct. I see this debate all the time. There were 3 Stetson hero hats according to the wardrobe call sheets, and continuity photos of Harrison on both the bridge scene, and re-shoots for the cockpit scene (there were 2 different hats in that one sequence). One of the 3 hero Stetsons was dontated by Steven Speilberg in 1994 for the "Friends in Need" Charity by Butterfields 1994. The hat auctioned was well soiled, and was worn by Harrison in the film. That hat has "HF/TD/indy II" with production numbers that match the re-shoots for the cockpit scene. Whether they were used for product placement or not is irrelivant. They were on screen, worn by Harrison, therefore they were screen used, and IMO should not be discredited simply because of style preference, or "product placement."

"Hero" hat means the hat the main character wore, and is labled as by the costumer. This hat would be used primarily for publicty shots/ close-ups, and is kept in perfect condition, with little to NO distressing. Technicly speaking any hat worn by Harrison himself should be considered a "hero" hat, esp since that designation often changes on the garment themselves. What starts out as the "hero" version, is not always the same at the end. So as far as collecting is concerned IMO any hat worn by Harrison is the "hero" hat.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu May 29, 2008 1:02 pm

All a matter of sematics.

The prop master I had a long time 'working relationship' with only referred to the hats used by Ford as 'hero hats', and the ones he handled were all HJ's. The Stetsons were placed in locations in the film so the Stetson folks could say the contract with Lucas had been met, and the planned (but never done) special in lobby sale Stetson's were placed in storage in the Paramount warehouses (so he told me just a year after production ended, so it was new info at the time of the telling rather than fuzzy memory of events with passing years).

I am only repeating what I have personal knowledge of. Others experiences will vary, of course, as yours has. We all have different pieces of the same puzzle.

Oh, and to be clear, no one was 'discrediting' anyone or anything. In my post, I was just calling them what the prop folks referred to them as. Nothing more.

Regards! Michaelson

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Thu May 29, 2008 1:09 pm

Michaelson wrote:All a matter of sematics.

The prop master I had a long time 'working relationship' with only referred to the hats used by Ford as 'hero hats', and the ones he handled were all HJ's. The Stetsons were placed in locations in the film so the Stetson folks could say the contract with Lucas had been met, and the planned (but never done) special in lobby sale Stetson's were placed in storage in the Paramount warehouses (so he told me just a year after production ended, so it was new info at the time of the telling rather than fuzzy memory of events with passing years).

I am only repeating what I have personal knowledge of. Others experiences will vary, of course, as yours has. We all have different pieces of the same puzzle.

Regards! Michaelson

I agree with you on all the above. I own the hat that was auctioned in 1994. I was the winner at the auction. So I know for a fact that they were used in various scenes. I do also know that what you are saying is correct 100%. The hat that Stetson was selling after the film, are not exactly the same as the one Harrison actually wore on screen . The pelt is different, and the hat size of course was custom. There were a few labeling items that are also different in the hats he wore. I also own one of the hats used by Harrison from KOTC. I have hat #3 with Harrisons personal measurments on the inside as placed by Steve, and Bernies handwritten numbering system. That hat is also well soiled. Sorry that was a bit off subject, but the point remains that Michaelson is correct, and the other piece of the puzzle proves that Harrison did wear Stetson in the film too. My understanding is that Stetson pushed to be the "only" hat maker for the film, but they could not fill the required order, as Stetson was a last minute marketing decision by Lucas, and other contracts had been finalized. For your knowledge is this correct?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu May 29, 2008 1:12 pm

Excellent! I LOVE when paths meet at the same fork of the road.

A lot of this information came and went as individuals made it available, and many times no two individuals were told the same story.

You owning those particular hats support what I was told so many years ago.

Thank you!

HIGH regards! Mark

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Thu May 29, 2008 1:48 pm

Aeris_Canon wrote:That's all nice to hear, but basically there is still no verifiable documentation to be witnessed or shown for the rest of us in order to set it straight. Henry, what is your relation to the films, if you don't mind? Were there any Dorfman's on the wardrobe call sheet for KOTCS?

With insider info like that we can at least rule out whether or not a Dorfman is on Harrison's head for this one.

I am not sure if the othe post I sent will go through, but in the mean time.

In a nut shell I have not seen anything, nor was told anything about Dorfman's being used. All the paper work I have seen, and the info I was told only stated Stetson, and HJ for TOD.

Nothing I have seen for the new film states Dorfman was used in KOTCS. I am pretty sure only Adventurebuilt was used for KOTCS. According to the costume call sheets for Harrison, and Western Costumes records only Adventurebuilt was listed. Just because I have not seen anything, nor was told anything about Dorfman, does not mean they were not used. However I am pretty certain that with all the hubub about the costumes, and Bernie himself only credits Steve for the hat, that Dorfman was not involved.

Michaelson,

I like when info comes together as well. Here you have the same info related to two different people at different times that match well. Plus the benefit of owning one of the hats helps...LOL!

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:25 pm

Aeris_Canon wrote:It didn't go through. What was your relation or role on these films again?

Thanks Henry.

I had no relation to the film directly. My father was Senior VP of Kemper Insurance who provided the insurance for TOD/ Last Crusade. He was on the set quite a bit in LA/ India for the company. Through him I made friends with many of the costumers on those films, and I have friends who work at Western Costumes/ Paramount Studios in LA now. They handled the costumes for the production of KOTCS. My father directly handled the claim for Harrison when he herniated his back on TOD etc.

I know Steve, as we all do. He was nice enough to make me a KOTC hat, before I obtained an original worn by Harrison. So my personal involvment is limited to those mentioned, but they are all first hand sources. Through those friendships I obtained a majority of costumes etc, and was given a binder to look at that showed continuity sheets/ photos for the main cast on TOD/ Last Crusade, and KOTCS. I was not able to make copies as I was on the Paramount set when pieces were being catalogued, so things were strict. Same for Western Costumes, they were boxing up cast costumes etc after production ended. Some were broken down, and reshuffled in their inventory for other films, and some were sent to Lucas Films (I believe, but that was hush hush for whatever reason) . So I am by no means an expert, but that is the info i've got right now.

Why doesn't someone just ask Bernie directly. He was in charge of Harrisons costume only, so its not like he had much else to do....LOL! Just kidding, but in all seriousness, why doesn't someone like Steve who knows him personaly just ask?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:31 pm

Through those friendships I obtained a majority of costumes etc, and was given a binder to look at that showed continuity sheets/ photos for the main cast on TOD/ Last Crusade, and KOTCS.

You are a lucky man. The prop man I talked to wouldn't even admit these sheets or lists existed, even though I KNEW they had to. It's just plain good business for a variety of reasons!

Regards! Michaelson

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:41 pm

I do remember the ads prior to Last Crusade by Stetson. They showed the familar Struzan painting of Indy from the teaser poster (the image is on ALL the new toys and such currently... yeah, that one!), and it said...

Indy's Back! And he's wearing a Stetson! or maybe it was And this time he's wearing a Stetson... or something like that.

I have the very ad in an old magazine (forget the name, it's at home and I'm at work currently, but all 3, Harrison in gear, Spielberg, and Lucas were on the cover) with an Indy III article in it from 1989. I've also seen the very same ad pop up now and then on eBay.

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:42 pm

Michaelson wrote:
Through those friendships I obtained a majority of costumes etc, and was given a binder to look at that showed continuity sheets/ photos for the main cast on TOD/ Last Crusade, and KOTCS.
You are a lucky man. The prop man I talked to wouldn't even admit these sheets or lists existed, even though I KNEW they had to. It's just plain good business for a variety of reasons!

Regards! Michaelson

Its funny you say that. I have been on tons of sets in the past, and have never seen people walking on egg shells like they were on the KOTCS set. Everyone was nice to me, but they were all real secrative. No big deal, but it was a blast to walk around the KOTSC sets at Universal, and Paramount.

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:53 pm

Minnesota Jones wrote:I do remember the ads prior to Last Crusade by Stetson. They showed the familar Struzan painting of Indy from the teaser poster (the image is on ALL the new toys and such currently... yeah, that one!), and it said...

Indy's Back! And he's wearing a Stetson! or maybe it was And this time he's wearing a Stetson... or something like that.

I have the very ad in an old magazine (forget the name, it's at home and I'm at work currently, but all 3, Harrison in gear, Spielberg, and Lucas were on the cover) with an Indy III article in it from 1989. I've also seen the very same ad pop up now and then on eBay.

Sounds cool. I remember some adds very similar to that one.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu May 29, 2008 3:12 pm

Henry wrote:
Michaelson wrote:
Through those friendships I obtained a majority of costumes etc, and was given a binder to look at that showed continuity sheets/ photos for the main cast on TOD/ Last Crusade, and KOTCS.
You are a lucky man. The prop man I talked to wouldn't even admit these sheets or lists existed, even though I KNEW they had to. It's just plain good business for a variety of reasons!

Regards! Michaelson
Its funny you say that. I have been on tons of sets in the past, and have never seen people walking on egg shells like they were on the KOTCS set. Everyone was nice to me, but they were all real secrative. No big deal, but it was a blast to walk around the KOTSC sets at Universal, and Paramount.

We had also heard during production they had security folks specifically tasked to make sure cell phones were turned off and/or secured on set so there were no photos taken or dialog recorded live on a phone call.

Regards! Michaelson

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Thu May 29, 2008 3:18 pm

Michaelson wrote:
Henry wrote:
Michaelson wrote:
Through those friendships I obtained a majority of costumes etc, and was given a binder to look at that showed continuity sheets/ photos for the main cast on TOD/ Last Crusade, and KOTCS.
You are a lucky man. The prop man I talked to wouldn't even admit these sheets or lists existed, even though I KNEW they had to. It's just plain good business for a variety of reasons!

Regards! Michaelson
Its funny you say that. I have been on tons of sets in the past, and have never seen people walking on egg shells like they were on the KOTCS set. Everyone was nice to me, but they were all real secrative. No big deal, but it was a blast to walk around the KOTSC sets at Universal, and Paramount.
We had also heard during production they had security folks specifically tasked to make sure cell phones were turned off and/or secured on set so there were no photos taken or dialog recorded live on a phone call.

Regards! Michaelson

I would not doubt that in the least. I was there after the movies were shot, and the sets were being broken down/ inventoried etc so cell phones were not an issue. I will add that I was not allowed to bring my camera in the set locations. So even after the fact, the studios were very tight. While at Univeral I went to Amblins offices to try and meet Speilberg, but he was not there either day. I did see one of the stunt skulls being tossed into a box (literaly), and I cringed. I tried to go get it, but the set labor that just boxed it up didn't speak English and ignored me for the most part. If I listened to the all the rumors, one would think that all members of the crew had to submit to blood samples, and polygraph tests....LOL! In reality when I got the hat, and some other items I did have to sign an agreement that stated I would not post photos, or publicly display the pieces until the movie had premiered, and for one specific item, I can not release photos etc until Jan 2009. Go figure. Since my collection is private who cares, but I understand the money involved in marketing etc, so no big deal.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu May 29, 2008 3:23 pm

....and for one specific item, I can not post photos until Jan 2009. Go figure.

I bet the marketing hasn't ended yet, and that item will end up on store shelves by Christmas, so they don't want it showing up so prop makers can duplicate it.

Regard! Michaelson

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Thu May 29, 2008 3:33 pm

Michaelson wrote:
....and for one specific item, I can not post photos until Jan 2009. Go figure.
I bet the marketing hasn't ended yet, and that item will end up on store shelves by Christmas, so they don't want it showing up so prop makers can duplicate it.

Regard! Michaelson

Bingo! Who knows if they will release this, but I already see it in many forms of toys etc. Things change so often, who knows what will come out, vs what was "planned" to come out. Either way, makes no never mind to me, its not my money........LOL! (I wish it was, then I could build "Indiana Ranch" right across from Lucas himself and throw half eaten hot dogs at his windows.)

blueoakleyz · Post by **blueoakleyz** » Thu May 29, 2008 7:26 pm

Aeris_Canon wrote:Sorry Chimp, are you telling or asking? Again, NO, that is not the definition - or the practice - of product placement. So yes, if the term Product Placement is going to be used in that sense, it is slightly askewed.

Officially licensed merchandise and product placement in a film are not the same thing and do not go hand-in-hand.

It's doubtful DP insisted "anything" take place in order to sell hats beyond being happy in receiving the contract to make mass produced "Indiana Jones Hats" and offer them to officially licensed vendors for resale. Showing one on screen to make it "official" and sellable contractually seems a FAR stretch.

This is different than sticking a hat on Harrison Ford's head in a photo shoot and selling the hat right then and there at some autograph session.

Either way, if you can't read "which" hat it is it is still not product placement.

But this is a Collector's hat thread.

DP's hats are $30-40. They have no need to make claims like "As worn/seen in Indiana Jones"... anyone that goes to Disneyland will buy one just as a souveneir. They have a bunch of those awful ones at savemart and they sold them.

blueoakleyz · Post by **blueoakleyz** » Thu May 29, 2008 8:19 pm

Aeris_Canon wrote:Yes...

That is called "Officially Licensed Merchandise". This is not the same as product placement.

DPs are enorsed by Lucasfilm for mass sales with the Indiana Jones name on them. From what the others are saying, Stetson used a campaign that claimed specifically, "As seen on Indiana Jones" in their advertising - which is still not product placement, either, actually. But if that was the agreement for their "then" merchandising campaign, it seems like a necessity.

Were they similarly priced or over $100?

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Fri May 30, 2008 7:28 am

Aeris_Canon wrote:Yes...

That is called "Officially Licensed Merchandise". This is not the same as product placement.

DPs are enorsed by Lucasfilm for mass sales with the Indiana Jones name on them. From what the others are saying, Stetson used a campaign that claimed specifically, "As seen on Indiana Jones" in their advertising - which is still not product placement, either, actually. But if that was the agreement for their "then" merchandising campaign, it seems like a necessity.

According to several costumers I know who worked on TOD, and my research with Stetson, Stetson had submitted thier hats for consideration before filming began, while wardrobe tests were being conducted. They were originaly turned down, and HJ was the supposed to be the only hat used in the film. Not sure in what order this happened but, apparently Lucas finalized a merchandise deal with Stetson, and now wanted Stetson as the only hat for the film, but Stetson could not fill the required order. According to Stetson they were given 6 days notice to create 45 custom hats, and had to decline. They had already submitted the three hats for use, so they could still get in the film with no problem. I am not certain of the frame work of thier merchandising contract, but Stetson was used in the film, and thats why Stetson specificly states "As seen in the movie." Having the hats appear in the film could certainly have been a legality for the claim itself, but I think it was simply a better way to salvage the lucrative marketing move for both Stetson and Lucas. Its still a form of product placement, all be it a strange way of advertising a hat in a movie that looks like all the others upon first vewing, but thats Hollywood. A place where normal rules don't apply, and things are never as they seem as on the silver screen.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:24 am

Henry, that lines up with what Steve Delk and I were told back in the mid 90's by Stetson. It's also why all those Stetson 'Temples' ended up in the hands of companies like Cabella and U. S. Cavalry after the film came out, as the hat deal fell through with Lucas, so they had to 'dump' their hats in several venues other than through the LF line of marketing.

The Stetson hat was still given official license for after market sale by LF, and it DID appear in TofD as well, so product placement was also claimed by the Stetson co.

Like you say, they do what they want, as the rule of thumb is, there ARE no rules in Hollywood.

I think the confusion that is going on is a product does not HAVE to appear in a film to receive licensing. Quite the contrary. ANYONE can apply for licensing and get it if they can prove the potential of sales and return, and Lucas decides to go with what you're offering. It's just that many of the companies include the clause in their contract that their product must appear SOMEHWHERE on screen at some point in a film in order to add that little bit more spice to their marketing approach.

Believe me, the competition between hat and jacket companies for this kind of licensing and product placement is unreal!
I've seen it in action, and it's brutal!

Regards! Michaelson

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:26 am

Michaelson wrote:Henry, that lines up with what Steve Delk and I were told back in the mid 90's by Stetson. It's also why all those Stetson 'Temples' ended up in the hands of companies like Cabella and U. S. Cavalry after the film came out, as the hat deal fell through with Lucas, so they had to 'dump' their hats in several venues other than through the LF line of marketing.

The Stetson hat was still given official license for after market sale by LF, and it DID appear in TofD as well, so product placement was also claimed by the Stetson co.

Like you say, they do what they want, as the rule of thumb is, there ARE no rules in Hollywood.

I think the confusion that is going on is a product does not HAVE to appear in a film to receive licensing. Quite the contrary. ANYONE can apply for licensing and get it if they can prove the potential of sales and return, and Lucas decides to go with what you're offering. It's just that many of the companies include the clause in their contract that their product must appear SOMEHWHERE on screen at some point in a film in order to add that little bit more spice to their marketing approach.

Believe me, the competition between hat and jacket companies for this kind of licensing and product placement is unreal!
I've seen it in action, and it's brutal!

Regards! Michaelson

Sounds right to me. I do know that Paramount Studios had thousands of these hats sitting on the shelves in bags, literaly. Frankly I like the Stetson hat that Harrison wore, but I am biased in that one.....LOL!

Chewie Louie · Post by **Chewie Louie** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:48 am

Henry wrote:Either way, makes no never mind to me, its not my money........LOL! (I wish it was, then I could build "Indiana Ranch" right across from Lucas himself and throw half eaten hot dogs at his windows.)

Just about one of the funniest posts I've read on COW.

Just curious, have you posted pics of any of your collection on COW?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri May 30, 2008 10:39 am

I do know that Paramount Studios had thousands of these hats sitting on the shelves in bags, literaly.

You were aware of the original plan that Lucas had was to sell those Stetsons in the lobbies of movie theaters when TofD came out as part of a Stetson/Paramount/Lucasfilm promotional, weren't you? When the Stetson deal 'fell through, the plan was canned and those hats were sold by lot to outside dealers.

Regards! Michaelson

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:18 pm

Michaelson wrote:
I do know that Paramount Studios had thousands of these hats sitting on the shelves in bags, literaly.
You were aware of the original plan that Lucas had was to sell those Stetsons in the lobbies of movie theaters when TofD came out as part of a Stetson/Paramount/Lucasfilm promotional, weren't you? When the Stetson deal 'fell through, the plan was canned and those hats were sold by lot to outside dealers.

Regards! Michaelson

Yes I was aware of that, but I am not sure what particulars shut that down. My best guess is that Lucas wanted to include some sort of action figure on the band, so the deal eventualy ended.....LOL!

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:19 pm

Chewie Louie wrote:
Henry wrote:Either way, makes no never mind to me, its not my money........LOL! (I wish it was, then I could build "Indiana Ranch" right across from Lucas himself and throw half eaten hot dogs at his windows.)
Just about one of the funniest posts I've read on COW.

Just curious, have you posted pics of any of your collection on COW?

Thanks. No I have not posted any items. I did have some pieces on yourprops and my own personal webpage, but took everything down. Too much hassell between people wanting to buy everything even after reading the NOT FOR SALE part, asking for measurments, wanting more photos, other members debating among themselves authentisity asking for letters etc etc etc. The list goes on and on. Not to mention I got letters from certain entities (we all know who) asking/ demanding me to remove photos of the KOTCS hat and other props of the film from my personal site. It was simply too much to deal with, so I took everything down. Live and learn, and boy I learned. I did come to this site years ago and stated I had the Stetson TOD hat, and I was torn to shreds because I would not provide photos etc, so I never bothered again. I understand now, but you know how that is. Indiana Jones movie props/ costumes create a lot of discontent because everyone has an preconcieved idea on what something "should be" vs sometimes what it actully is. That can create confusion, and bad feelings among collectors/ fans. Some people argue way too much over this stuff, and that takes all the fun out of owning any pieces. At least for me.

On a side note, I was asked by Mann Theaters to borrow some of my pieces for the opening of Indy 4 in Hollywood, but that deal fell through. They contacted me through Paramount Studios where I had purchased some Indy pieces in the past. Mann theaters wanted me to donate my pieces for a "History of Indiana Jones's Adventures" exhibit, and were not willing to paying me. Not to mention they also wanted me to pay for the insurance on the items while on display. Keep in mind they approached me....LOL!

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:55 pm

I guarantee they were horrified that you didn't jump at the chance to take the deal, Henry!

Regards! Michaelson

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Fri May 30, 2008 1:30 pm

Michaelson wrote:I guarantee they were horrified that you didn't jump at the chance to take the deal, Henry!

Regards! Michaelson

HA! To say the least. How could I refuse such an honor! The funniest part about that whole thing, is that they tried billing ME for the rental of 5 display cases! Even though nothing was ever finalized, and no deal had been struck. LOL! As they say in Hollywood "that's show buisness..."

Chewie Louie · Post by **Chewie Louie** » Fri May 30, 2008 7:22 pm

What a shame. Sounds like you have some real treasures many here at COW would appreciate. The thread regarding the hero ROTLA fedora was well received I thought. You should consider asking the powers that be at COW to post some of your collection anonymously so you don't have to deal with the headaches of responding to every doubting Thomas. Then again, there is always going to be a certain measure of disbelief by some. Everyone likes a good mystery or puzzle to solve, and sometimes a little controversy can be fun. At the end of the day, who cares what other people think as long as you know the truth.

It certainly sounds like you have a lot of interesting behind the scenes information. Would love to hear more and I hope you reconsider sharing photos in the future. Best Wishes.

Henry · Post by **Henry** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:47 am

Chewie Louie wrote:What a shame. Sounds like you have some real treasures many here at COW would appreciate. The thread regarding the hero ROTLA fedora was well received I thought. You should consider asking the powers that be at COW to post some of your collection anonymously so you don't have to deal with the headaches of responding to every doubting Thomas. Then again, there is always going to be a certain measure of disbelief by some. Everyone likes a good mystery or puzzle to solve, and sometimes a little controversy can be fun. At the end of the day, who cares what other people think as long as you know the truth.

It certainly sounds like you have a lot of interesting behind the scenes information. Would love to hear more and I hope you reconsider sharing photos in the future. Best Wishes.

Thanks I appreciate the info. I am not concerned about authentisity in the least, its simply having to full fill 10,000 requests for various info/ photos etc. Of course there will always be those who doubt items, and thats ok, its healthy. The problem comes in to play when those who are hyper aggressive begin to insult personaly and call your integrity into question. That was the final factor (or straw) as to why I no longer have any of my collection online. When my pieces were on your props, and on my website, I had nothing but great feedback, but then one "expert" comes along, that person does not like one of the many items, and begins smashing everything, because they know a guy who knew a guy, that their uncle worked on the film, so naturally they know everything there is about a specific piece. So if that piece specificly, does not conform to thier "expert" info, then everything is now called into question, regardless of provenance etc. It would be funny, if not so absurd, and true. That was one of the few instances where that has actually occured, but that episode made me relize it's just easier to keep the material private, share only with friends and people who I really know, rather than a public exhibition online where every "expert" becomes the savior or executioner (in a manner of speaking). The Raiders hat was well recieved, I am glad Desi was so accomdating. I enjoyed the thread quite a bit.