Official Factory Produced KotCS AdventureBilt Fedora (Henry)

[WeeMadHamish]

Taking a step back. Rereading.

Is international shipping included in the price (that's how it reads)?

Otherwise, does a little extra hand-work, premium leather sweatband and a splash of beaver fur make it worth an extra $180 over the cost of a jackrabbit hat with a similar shape that is presumably just as tough?

That's really all I want to know.

[DR Ulloa]

Worldwide shipping is included. That would normally run about $40. Not that bad a deal, really. Asnfar as if it is worth an additional $180, if you think so then yes, if not, then no.

Dave

[WeeMadHamish]

Alright, let's not say worth. Let's say VALUE. Are those features actually valued at an extra $180?

No wait... that's the other way around, isn't it?

[DR Ulloa]

If you dish out the extra cash you will be getting a better quality leather sweatband that is hand sewn and (correct me if I am wrong) a SA ribbon that is also hand sewn. In my eyes, this is worth the extra $180, though still a lot of money. That is like saying "hey I am going to buy an Aston Martin without the performance package." I think it is alot of money, but well worth it.

Dave

[crazylegsmurphy]

Could someone with a better knowledge of these things please do a quick product compare breakdown?

Eg.

AB Factory Made Hat

* 20% beaver body
*

Tentative total - $280 (Shipping included?)

The Camptown Model 1957 "Legend" Fedora, with Crown by AdventureBilt™

* An Illinois Brown beaver/rabbit blend hat body of moderate thickness to take styling and hard use with ease.
* A 5 ¾ inch crown and 3” non-dimensional brim to allow a multitude of styling options. Click here for styling options.
* A roaned leather sweatband, ventilated to let the adventurer’s head breathe as he/she races from wild natives or rolling boulders !
* A Bridal Satin liner with sweatcap (no stains on your crown !) adorned with the cobalt blue Camptown Hats Emblem for the Model 1936
* Shipped in a sturdy hat box, suitable for storage of your hat.
* Includes two thicknesses of sizing tape and Camptown Hat Company’s styling instructions.

- $X.XX ($35 International shipping)

- TOTAL - $X.XX


If anyone knows others that are comparable then please fill in this list. I think since many are talking about how this is a good deal, then it should show in side by side comparisons with other hats in the same price range.

[DR Ulloa]

I think the hat that would compete most directly with the Henry is the HJ Poet. I'm not sure of the beaver content, but it runs about $300.

Dave

[crazylegsmurphy]

Todds Costumes states the Poet is:

Soft, shapeable, fine quality rabbit fur felt.

[DR Ulloa]

I know it is rabbit, but the Henry will probably be in more direct competition with the Poet than anything else. We don't know how much the Camptown Legend will cost but if I had to speculate, given the cost of the Fieldmaster, I would say it will run about $260. When you consider that the Henry is $280 shipped (and yes, reread Marc's post, that price includes worldwide shipping), it is not a bad deal. The beaver content will be higher in the Legend, but who says that the Henry can't be as tough? Akubras are pure rabbit (hare) and they have been proven to be just as tough as any blend and some beavers.

Dave

[crazylegsmurphy]

I know it is rabbit, but the Henry will probably be in more direct competition with the Poet than anything else. We don't know how much the Camptown Legend will cost but if I had to speculate, given the cost of the Fieldmaster, I would say it will run about $260. When you consider that the Henry is $280 shipped (and yes, reread Marc's post, that price includes worldwide shipping), it is not a bad deal. The beaver content will be higher in the Legend, but who says that the Henry can't be as tough? Akubras are pure rabbit (hare) and they have been proven to be just as tough as any blend and some beavers.

Dave

The FAB is $280 shipped anywhere? So it's the same shipping cost to Canada, U.S. Germany, etc?

I don't think anyone said the FAB couldn't be as tough, but because it has no "field experience" at this point it's really just speculation as to it's ability to hold up.

If the beaver content in the Legend is higher, and the materials are higher quality and it has the CS block, then is it considered above or below the quality mark of the FAB?

I'm trying to get a sense (and educate myself and others) a little better on the differences in these comparable hats. If in fact the FAB (even at European prices) is a great deal, then I'll shut up. But it seems to me, from where I am sitting the HJ isn't a $300 quality hat anyway, it just has the price tag because of the name (I'm basing this on the reason I can't find any other information on the blend of the hat and by the experience of the people here).

[DR Ulloa]

Even basing this on beaver content is pointless; again I bring up the Akubra argument. If you are using the "no 'field experience'" argument on the Henry, then that argument must also be extended to the Legend. Ken makes a great hat, but the Legend is not the Fieldmaster and so no one knows how it will hold up. The point is, that we have an idea of how it will because of the hatters' reputation. Now, we can't base things solely on reputation, but it is safe to say that AB will not be producing a poor quality hat. I think the hat will be worth $280.

Dave

[that_dog]

Bear in mind that styling on the Camptown costs extra (as far as I know... if JerseyJones is reading this and wants to correct me, he should feel free). That includes putting in the dimensional brim, which I believe the factory AB will have as standard. (The factory AB may come unbashed, too, though, so the hats may be comparable in that respect.) Also, my understanding is that the new Camptown will have Steve's old Raiders block, but that only the ABs will have the (slightly different) block used in KotCS.

Knowing that Steve and Marc have helped Ken with the new Camptown, I have a hard time believing these hats are meant for the same market, but I can't say either way.

Of course, value is in the eye of the beholder, and some people may come to put a premium on the AB name being on a hat, much as people continue to buy HJs because that's the name on the original Raiders hat. I personally don't care as much about the name as such, but that doesn't mean that these people are wrong or that the hat isn't "worth" the asking price.

[GCR]

Of course, value is in the eye of the beholder, and some people may come to put a premium on the AB name being on a hat, much as people continue to buy HJs because that's the name on the original Raiders hat. I personally don't care as much about the name as such, but that doesn't mean that these people are wrong or that the hat isn't "worth" the asking price.

Another fine point...you just saved me from writing a lengthy reply of my own.

If people want a quality beaver blend fedora with an excellent blockshape and a fairly quick turnaround time, and they don't want to spend more than $200 or so, they can buy a Camptown.

If they want a quality beaver blend fedora with an excellent blockshape and a fairly quick turnaround time, but they also want the same brand Indy wore in Crystal Skull, then they pay $70 - $80 dollars more for the AB. What's the big deal?

-GCR

[Mr. Z]

One thing that is important to remember: we don't quite have all the facts yet. It will all flesh itself out soon enough though, which is very cool.

[crazylegsmurphy]

What's the big deal?

The others who want the same brand Indy hat used in the film, endorsed by the guys who have a proven track record in making hats, with a fairly quick turn around time, and at a price that mirrors the level of quality in the hat.....not a price that is what it is because of the location it was chosen to be made.

That's my reasoning anyway. I would love to have one of these hats, but if in the end I'm simply paying for exchange rates instead of that cash going into improved quality, then it doesn't seem worth it in my eyes, AB name or no.

Edit: This basically sums up most of my AB Deluxe reasonings. Marc offers great stuff no doubt, but if I was to order something from him, half my cash just goes up in a puff of smoke. Is this his fault, no...but it really becomes a pain when things that are, or could be made closer to home are made in Germany (which would benefit everyone), they're not and so that's when I pipe in and say..."Awesome, is this products manufacturing location conducive to the main target market?"

[DR Ulloa]

Lets not forget Lee's blended fur fedora. The Keppler is a great value at $175. I'm hoping to recieve mine before the premier.

[DR Ulloa]

You are not paying for just the exchange rate. That does jack up the price but we would be recieving a hat that's price is indicative of its quality.

Dave

[crazylegsmurphy]

You are not paying for just the exchange rate. That does jack up the price but we would be recieving a hat that's price is indicative of its quality.

Dave

Right, and that brings me back to my main question I suppose. What are the benefits to ordering a AB factory hat being a Canadian (meaning the price is much higher because of exchange rates) over the many other hat vendors including a genuine AB 100% beaver hat?

It seems to come down to one thing, and one thing only.....time.

[The Aviator]

I'm getting a headache

[crazylegsmurphy]

I'm getting a headache

Order some Advil from Germany...it's a good deal!

[DR Ulloa]

Thats funny. But seriously, if you don't see any advantages to buying the Henry then don't get it. There are other options. I am probably going to purchase it. I was taken aback when I first saw the price also, but I do think that this is a good deal. If you would prefer to order the Legend, then by all means go ahead, but I think at this point you are no longer giving input to the boys at AB rather than simply trying to find a reason as to why not to buy the Henry. If I am way off base, then let me know.

Dave

[that_dog]

The others who want the same brand Indy hat used in the film, endorsed by the guys who have a proven track record in making hats, with a fairly quick turn around time, and at a price that mirrors the level of quality in the hat.....not a price that is what it is because of the location it was chosen to be made.

That's my reasoning anyway. I would love to have one of these hats, but if in the end I'm simply paying for exchange rates instead of that cash going into improved quality, then it doesn't seem worth it in my eyes, AB name or no.

Edit: This basically sums up most of my AB Deluxe reasonings. Marc offers great stuff no doubt, but if I was to order something from him, half my cash just goes up in a puff of smoke. Is this his fault, no...but it really becomes a pain when things that are, or could be made closer to home are made in Germany (which would benefit everyone), they're not and so that's when I pipe in and say..."Awesome, is this products manufacturing location conducive to the main target market?"

Well we HAVE tried everything humanly possible in the US and there are just so and so many factories who can actually make the hat we desire to call an Adventurebilt and those that we spoke to weren't up to it. Period. Steve and I tryed HARD to get it done, helping out with tips and hint. Still, what we got were prices that would end up BEYOND 280$ sales price or plain something that was below the quality of what we wanted.

You keep harping on the location of the factory, but there can only be so many hat factories in the U.S., particularly ones that deal in higher quality hats. I have no difficulty in believing that Marc tried to source the hats in the U.S. but couldn't find a factory that would make a hat up to his high standards. What then would you have him do? Wait until another American hat factory opens that can make an AB-quality hat at a price you consider reasonable?

[crazylegsmurphy]

If I am way off base, then let me know.

Ya, kinda..I wanna get both....but I also wanna get a Wested before Peter decides to give us all the finger and tell us where to go...so there is a bit of a budgeting thing here.

If I had my ultimate way, the FAB would be around $180 like Steve wanted, the quality would be as awesome as possible, and me and a bunch of others here could order them, and love them more than our own kin.

When I heard about the $280 (and saw the "meh" prototype) that's when I started asking if there is anything that could save this and not make it so expensive...cause in MY eyes....if it stays at $280, I'll just wait and get a real AB with the CS style. (And this doesn't seem to help Steve stick to his 100 hats a year thing).

What then would you have him do? Wait until another American hat factory opens that can make an AB-quality hat at a price you consider reasonable?

Well first off, I don't seem to be the only one here that is a little disappointed at the current pricing.

Secondly, there are more places in the world than just America. Canada is somewhere above the U.S. from what I'm told and our dollar is almost on par with the U.S.

Australia, and some other countries seem to have some pretty good exchange rates and such as well.

But, there is a key word you put in there....and it's the SAME word I was saying in the $700 Aldens thread...and that word is WAIT! Yes, this gear collecting has been around for like...well, before I was old enough to do it, and I'm sure it'll go for a while yet.

There is NO rush to get these AB's out as quickly as possible. There is no rush to have the $700 Aldens made ASAP. These are all good ideas, but it seems to me the timing is all off.

[GCR]

What's the big deal?

The others who want the same brand Indy hat used in the film, endorsed by the guys who have a proven track record in making hats, with a fairly quick turn around time, and at a price that mirrors the level of quality in the hat.....not a price that is what it is because of the location it was chosen to be made.

That's my reasoning anyway. I would love to have one of these hats, but if in the end I'm simply paying for exchange rates instead of that cash going into improved quality, then it doesn't seem worth it in my eyes, AB name or no.

Edit: This basically sums up most of my AB Deluxe reasonings. Marc offers great stuff no doubt, but if I was to order something from him, half my cash just goes up in a puff of smoke. Is this his fault, no...but it really becomes a pain when things that are, or could be made closer to home are made in Germany (which would benefit everyone), they're not and so that's when I pipe in and say..."Awesome, is this products manufacturing location conducive to the main target market?"

The answer is simple...MOVE.

Don't like it? Well, neither do I, but it's really the only solution to your issue. The economy isn't going to fix itself overnight and until it does, this is just the way things are. Steve and Marc tried to get this hat produced in the US. IT DID NOT WORK OUT. Plan B is Europe, right now Europe costs more...so it's either plan B or nothing, I'm afraid. At this point further debate over the pricing seems pointless until we actually know what the final price will be. I'm more than certain Marc has gotten the message LOUD and CLEAR that some folks aren't happy with the price. Even when the final price is announced, I'm sure there will be people who still are not satisfied. There are always folks who refuse to alter their expectations to suit reality, it seems.

-GCR

[crazylegsmurphy]

so it's either plan B or nothing, I'm afraid.

Ok, then I just have one more question, then I'm going to go work on MY special project (that you'll all get the chance to slam me on if it works out).

At any time did Marc/Steve come to COW (or the other Indy Forums), and say something like, "The U.S. factory isn't working out, does anyone out there have any leads on an alternative factory that we might be able to talk to?"

[Long John Tinfoil]

Isn't a lot of this sort of like the arguing the price of the Porsche Boxster?

It's a Porsche, it's a lot of fun to drive, most will never get a chance to explore the limits of performance without going for a track weekend and getting a whole bunch of skills training. It isn't a 911 Turbo. It won't run with the 911 on the track.

It's more affordable, more accessible, most people who see it will say "Nice wheels!"

It's still a pretty expensive car for a lot of us and not something we'd use as a Monday-to-Friday grocery-getter.

I want a Boxster. I can't afford it right now. Same with a Henry. But I CAN see saving up the money for a Boxster, for a 911 I have to win a lottery.
The Henry is equally achievable.

$0.02 Cdn. Worth every penny you paid for it.

[that_dog]

there is a bit of a budgeting thing here.

If I had my ultimate way, the FAB would be around $180 like Steve wanted, the quality would be as awesome as possible, and me and a bunch of others here could order them, and love them more than our own kin.

When I heard about the $280 (and saw the "meh" prototype) that's when I started asking if there is anything that could save this and not make it so expensive...cause in MY eyes....if it stays at $280, I'll just wait and get a real AB with the CS style. (And this doesn't seem to help Steve stick to his 100 hats a year thing).

...I don't seem to be the only one here that is a little disappointed at the current pricing.

Everyone wants things to be cheaper than they are. No offense, but Marc and Steve can't let their business be driven by the budgetary constraints of one potential buyer, no matter how vocal. As I wrote earlier, if there is a market for this hat it will sell; if not, Marc and Steve will have to adjust.

There is NO rush to get these AB's out as quickly as possible. There is no rush to have the $700 Aldens made ASAP. These are all good ideas, but it seems to me the timing is all off.

I'm sorry, murph, but you're just wrong about this. There is a definite time issue here -- the premiere of KotCS is less than a week away. Marc and Steve have a golden opportunity to sell hats to new and rejuvenated Indy fans and maybe make a profit from this hobby they've poured so much of themselves into. They'd be crazy to not try and capitalize on this chance. The gearhead community should be supporting the heck out of these two guys, who have given us phenomenal hats at phenomenal prices for years. If the factory AB is priced a little higher than we'd like, well, there's always Akubra... or Camptown... or Jimmy Pierce... or Lee Kepler... or Dorfman Pacific... or any of the other myriad options now available.

[crazylegsmurphy]

K fine, I don't care anymore.

[DR Ulloa]

Don't stop caring. This is going to be an amazing hat. If you are not going to purchase one, then that is cool, but care about the effeorts of fellow COW members. Like that_dog said, we should be proud of what AB has done, but that doesn't mean we have to buy their products. Not everyone can afford one and that stinks, but that is the caveat of buying the best. Again, lets wait and see what Marc can get done in the price department. That price is not set in stone. And even if that is the final price, I think it is fair.

Dave

[that_dog]

What Dave said.

[KJB]

Yeah, I would just remind you guys that despite the dying dollar as compared to the Euro and the Australian dollar, the choices out there now for GREAT Indy hats are amazing compared to even when I got into this. Just revel in the choices you've got! This one is like icing on the cake.

When I started out, all I knew was that when "hat day" at my high school senior year rolled around, I was without a proper fedora to complete my not-so-close-enough, last-minute Indy outfit. This was just an abomination, wearing everything BUT the hat... Luckily I borrowed an OLD borsalino from the theatre department, but it left me wanting to find one for myself! I was one or two clicks away from buying a Dorfman-Pacific "fur felt" version on the big auction site when I stumbled across this place. I lurked for a good year and a half, I checked out the options, and the best out there in my price range was this (imho) unsatisfactory Indiana Miller, or an Akubra offering that I would have to take some scissors to in order to get it right... But then there was the Federation, glorious thing that, and affordable! My brother sprang for that (this was before the slow, painful death of the dollar).
But I knew there was a holy grail of hats waiting for those who made the leap of faith...so I put my trust and my paycheck in with a budding new hatter, Steve Delk. Never looked back.

The gist of all this is, Steve and Marc (with a lot of help from this community and its Knowers of Things) have done WONDERS not only in supplying us with a top-notch, SA hat, but in revitalizing these boards and interest in gearheadedness. We've come a long way!

So whatever you choose, be glad we've got tons of options today. Heck, seems they're popping up all over the place! Just recently, Canyon posted something about Hornets Hats, or something? And don't forget the "Old Guard", as I think of em, the guys who have been offering us their top-notch stuff for years. Ron at Hatsdirect, Lee Keppler, Noel Howard. You guys are awesome! (Is NH still in biz?) In any event, looks like we'll finally have a relatively affordable hat for the masses that can be ordered pretty quickly and officially linked to the movies. I'm excited!

Also, shameless plug: we've gotta have a thread going after the premiere in which everyone posts their photos!

[Piker]

....and the Australian dollar....

There are Federation III's left. Buy now before the US Buck drops even more. Converted the $$$ American vs the AU$ and OMG! the 70's are here again. Canada $$$$ saved me 20 cents!!!!! Canada $'s are worth more than US $!!!

Yo, Ron pimp this to the Europeans.

where are those Confederate War Bonds granddad had? Fiddle dee dee!

[bigrex]

The thing I value the most about an AB is the shape, (the block it came off of and the bash) -those elements give it most of the feel and special look of an Indy hat. All the actual materials are of secondary value and subject to alteration depending on price in my opinion. Sure you don't want a felt hat that will look like a dunce cap in a few months, but, speaking only for myself, when it comes to factory built, things like sweatbands are kind of, of lesser import. But I'll quit giving my two cents here, I know it's pretty much been decreed that the quality will come first, and that's ok by me, but I think many will just go out and by the real thing, a handmade AB for that, and have a lesser reason to get a second hat and make it the factory model, except for the fact that the waiting list may make a difference, for the $70 price difference in many instances probably will not.

[DR Ulloa]

Well, that is exactly what I am doing. I have an AB from Steve on order but am just as excited about the Henry as I am about the regular AB. Its a different hat with a different feel. I may get another custom AB later on, but it will probably be a Deluxe from Marc. I do value the look of the AB, but it is the quality that really sold me on my initial purchase with Steve. I had heard so much that I HAD to have one. I feel the same about the Henry and I don't even have the regular AB yet! This is shaping up to be something spectacular. I hope everything works out Marc.

Dave

[bigrex]

Well, that is exactly what I am doing. I have an AB from Steve on order but am just as excited about the Henry as I am about the regular AB. Its a different hat with a different feel. I may get another custom AB later on, but it will probably be a Deluxe from Marc. I do value the look of the AB, but it is the quality that really sold me on my initial purchase with Steve. I had heard so much that I HAD to have one. I feel the same about the Henry and I don't even have the regular AB yet! This is shaping up to be something spectacular. I hope everything works out Marc.

Dave

That's fine, I'm glad I may be wrong, no problem there if that's the case then they don't have to lower the price. I'll probably make my second hat either another hand built AB or a Camptown, but if the factory AB block and bash look really unique in a good and "can't put your finger on it" way, then I may still be up for one of these, never say never.

[Piker]

Why fiddle as Rome burns?

The US Dollar is dropping against everything except the Kazakh UAH.

Buy an Akubra now. Did a conversion, and the Canada $ trumps the US $. And Steve gets felt from where?

US $ still beats the AUS $, but ....... Snooze and you lose.

Just saying.

[DR Ulloa]

I would still love for the price to be reduced. If the price can be lowered at all that would be amazing. I would love a Federation. The new ones look amazing and for the price, it really can't be beat. But the Henry is on a completely different level.

Dave

[bigrex]

Why fiddle as Rome burns?

The US Dollar is dropping against everything except the Kazakh UAH.

Buy an Akubra now. Did a conversion, and the Canada $ trumps the US $. And Steve gets felt from where?

US $ still beats the AUS $, but ....... Snooze and you lose.

Just saying.

Maybe I'll exchange my dollars for Iraqi Dinars?! Heh, heh unfortunately that may be one of the more risky investments one could make.

[DR Ulloa]

So, on the hat itself, I plan on giving it a SOC bash, since my handmade AB is a Crystal Skull bash. Should I leave things as they are or switch the bashes around and have the Henry be a Crystal Skull hat and the handmade AB a Raiders? The AB won't be ready until the Fall so I have time to change the bash.

Dave

[Mr. Z]

What's the difference between the bash and the pinch?

[DR Ulloa]

Essentially the same thing. The bash is the overall look of the hat while the pinch is more specific. The Raiders hat has a tighter pinch, the CS hat has a moderately tight pinch but it doesn't run the length of the crown. The bash refers to the pinch, dents, and anything that affects the overall look of the hat. I think this is all right , but I am not 100% certain. Maybe somone else can chime in?

Dave

[Bruce Wayne]

i cant believe that i just wasted 30 minutes of my life listening to you guys complain about price.
i want those 30 minutes back (eh, who am i kidding. i would just waste them anyways...)

seriously, i am looking foward to a factory bilt adventurebilt, that is well within my price range...

[Alan]

And Steve gets felt from where?

Tennessee

[DR Ulloa]

I thought Steve got his felt from Canada.

Dave

[IndyBrit]

I see you chaps are still moaning about the price. As I pointed out benchmark this against the current HJ.

Please let Marc conclude his investigations on this.

The AB Henry will be a quality offer from the brand that made the hats for the new film. Even now the price is fair.

[DR Ulloa]

I don't believe anyone, save possibly one person, was ever complaining about price. Just about everyone has said that $280 is a fair price. That being said, any suggestions on my previous question? Any help with the bashes?

Dave

[Mr. Z]

Essentially the same thing. The bash is the overall look of the hat while the pinch is more specific. The Raiders hat has a tighter pinch, the CS hat has a moderately tight pinch but it doesn't run the length of the crown. The bash refers to the pinch, dents, and anything that affects the overall look of the hat. I think this is all right , but I am not 100% certain. Maybe somone else can chime in?

Dave

Thanks DR. That is kind of what I suspected. Are the dents the things on top of the hat?

[Indiana G]

I thought Steve got his felt from Canada.

Dave

the best beaver pelts come from canada, but i believe steve's felter is a local source who uses canuck beavers.

please correct me if i'm wrong.

[DR Ulloa]

I remember a thread that popped up not too long ago where someone was saying he had a moral issue with buying fur hats. Steve chimed in saying that beavers in Canada had been protected so long that they now have a beaver problem, so buying his felt from canada is not so much an issue of "we are killing beavers for their fur" as "we are helping Canada with their beaver control problem." Don't take that word for word. I can't remember where I read that, but it was something to that extent. Maybe Fedora himself would like to put an end to this?

Dave

[Piker]

viewtopic.php?t=27997&highlight=tree

And Steve gets felt from where?

Tennessee

Wrong again, Lounger.

Was a retorical question, he gets the felt from Canada. Hence the comparison of the US and Canadian $. The Canadian $ dollar has actually risen to just slightly more than the USD. This has not happened in over 30 years.

Noticed it when converting AUS $ into US $ to snap up a couple remaining Federation III's in my size and for fun I converted Canadian $'s too. Would have saved 20 cents if I were a Canuck. But this also means that Steve will be paying more for felt in the future.

[Alan]

viewtopic.php?t=27997&highlight=tree

And Steve gets felt from where?

Tennessee

Wrong again, Lounger.

Was a retorical question, he gets the felt from Canada.

Spend more time on your reading comprehension. He says:

Canadian beavers are the best, hands down and I am proud to say my bodies are made from this fur.

The fur may be Canadian, but the production of the bodies is in Tennessee, Lounger.