CHECK YOUR HATSIZE

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:32 pm

Just FYI........Hatsdirect has advised that due to the age of the blocks they are using for the new FED 4, that you need to check your hat size. Because they are older blocks, and because we evolve, you may have a different size head than the block was made for 60 years ago. If you haven't gotten your email, go check it out on the Fed page of their website.

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:58 pm

Which should work out perfect for moi. Standard 60 cm is too loose and 59 is too tight, but 59.5 cm is just right!

So the size 60 that comes in at true 59.5 cm is great!

Yeah Baby! (oops, wrong screen hero!)

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:00 pm

I have to second Piker's position. But I'm waiting to see the finished product before considering it. Can't wait to see the pics start rolling in.

Treadwell · Post by **Treadwell** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:29 pm

? Are you saying a size 7 3/8 head in 1940 was smaller than a size 7 3/8 head in 2008?

I can accept that people's heads might, on average, be a different size nowadays, but a size 7 3/8 is a size 7 3/8 no matter what year it is, unless I'm missing something.

:

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:32 pm

http://www.hatsdirect.com/federation/size.html

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:28 am

Yes, I am saying that sizes do fluctuate..........just like every 2-4 years, clothes makers have to change sizes in clothing, due to the 'bigging up' of people..............as we have better diet, healthier living, and so forth, we are overall larger than all those years ago, and so the clothing(and hat industry) must make clothe larger sizes, and number accordingly. I have a WWII Borsalino fedora that fits me just fine, but is marked as 7 3/8, yet as I measure it, it is exactly 22 5/8, or 7 1/4 as seems to be the current standard 7 1/4 measurement. Yes, some blocks are different; I can only tell you my experience. When I buy vintage hats, I always have to buy a size up, because my head is bigger than they guy it was made for 60 years ago..........................

BoilermakerJones · Post by **BoilermakerJones** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:41 am

Perhaps it is due to the hat shrinking some over the years. I think I read it here, but for American hat sizes take the circumference of the head and divide by Pi. So hat size is actually the average diameter of the head. That should hold true in 1948 or 2008.

I don't know about the sizing of the new Federations though. You would think that 59cm would be 59cm. Perhaps people expected a more tight fit back then. The company also might have made allowances for longer hair styles over the years so people could still buy the same hat size.

Matt

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:06 am

thats really odd.

thats like saying

"I can Make the Kessel run in less than twelve par-secs!"

The kessel run is 18 par-secs long, no matter how fast you go,
its still 18 par-secs.....The hair size does make sense. Guys back in the day had slicked back haircuts all the time. Right?

I've got a couple of vintage hats myself, they fit me perfectly at one point, one of them was even a old new stock 1945 stetson (receipt was in the sweat) but I wore it on a hot day, and the next time I put it on, it diden't fit. I know my head diden't change size because my akubra that I've had for 5 years still fits me. so that woulden't make any sense. I'm guessing the sweat shrunk because of the moisture. I've had this happen to 3 different hats. Anyone else have this problem?

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:11 am

Well, time measurements vs. weight and scale measures aren't exactly comparible.

Time DOES remain the same, as you point out, but it's dependent on what is being used to time an event. You may be suprised that your '18 par secs' is actually faster when using a digital timer than if you timed it with a mechanical timer, due to the physical nature it takes to make the mechanical timer work. The more friction is introduced into an equation, the slower that unit becomes. Therefore, no, '18 par secs' is NOT the same everytime you measure it.
Granted, all timers must meet a standard, and therefore, theoritically, ALL timers shold prove to hold the same measurement....but reality has a way of kicking that in the head when the 'rubber meets the road' at an actual event.

Same with anything else you measure. It's all dependent on the agreed upon device being used to make that measurement, and how many agree to that particular designated measure.

Shrinkage can be a big factor! The International Bureau of Weights and Standards has to make adjustment every so often. (Yes this does happen. It actually happened just last week when it was discovered that the master measurement of the kilogram had actually lost a fraction of it's original weight since being set in the 1960's! No explaination of why, and it was just a very few decimal points of a difference, but it HAD changed! So, the master scale had to recalibrated for comparison to new international scales being sold from this week on. The scientists stated that it ws not enough for them to require recalibration or recall of the existing standard weight scales being currently used....but an offical change had to be made to the master scale listing, and any weight scales made from that time on. Complicated, ain't it?

)

As has been already ponted out, the Bureau also makes adjustment for general size changes in the human form and size, so those scales are adjusted as well.

In the world of weights and measurements, there are absolute standards, but not necessarily FIXED standards when it comes to mans need to measure something. It's what ever is required at any given moment in history.

Did that make sense?

Regards! Michaelson

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:16 am

I have the perfect picture to post, but can't till I get home. Watch this space this evening! Film at the 6 O'clock News!!

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:18 am

...Thanks, Piker! and now, over to bink for the weather.....

Regard! Michaelson

WeeMadHamish · Post by **WeeMadHamish** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:26 am

Michaelson wrote:You may be suprised that your '18 par secs' is actually faster when using a digital timer than if you timed it with a mechanical timer, due to the physical nature it takes to make the mechanical timer work.

Actually, a parsec is a measure of distance, not time, which I think was his point. Lucas misused the word in that quote.

So if hat size is based on the circumference of the head, divided by pi, you have to ask whether a 1930's inch was shorter than a modern inch!

Yeah, it seems logical that it's more likely the old wood has shrunk in well over half a century, making them half a size smaller than they were originally.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:55 am

Yep. You can tell I'm up on my SW info!

Well, my point is still valid, though. It's a matter of true standards and actual standards keeping/usage.

Regards! Michaelson

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:41 am

OK - lets say a par-sec is a distance measurement in the fictional world of Star Wars. What if the "Kessel Run" is physically 25 par-secs in the normal speed passage path.

If you travel fast enough, who is to say that space doesn't bend? That is to say, the faster you travel, the shorter the distance between two objects becomes. Therefore, the speed the Falcon travels actually bends the space around it and creates a shorter path and traveling time all at once. Therefore, a distance measurement can be used as a time measurement. A "normal" space craft uses 25 par-secs to travel the "Kessel Run" whereas the Falcon only needs to travel 12 par-secs as it's speed warps space(which is already curved) to make the distance shorter.

So maybe old Lucas wasn't so silly after all - huh, huh? Unbelievable...

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:45 am

Oh great. The 4th dimensional space continium argument!!

That said, would it also have to factor in that you had to be sure you were traveling in the right direction, as if you went backwards, you'd end up finishing at the exact time you began, therefore negating the measurement totally?

My head hurts now.

Regards! Michaelson

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:49 am

I have a mental, "block," when it comes to trying to follow this.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:14 am

Michaelson wrote:...Thanks, Piker! and now, over to bink for the weather.....

Regard! Michaelson

Here's todays forecast, folks! Brighter during the day and darker at night. Now to Minnesota for sports!

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:19 pm

Back to the topic... The Fed IV hat sizing relative to modern day hat sizing.
My Akubra Adventurer 58 fit me perfectly after a few wears, but from what I hear my Fed IV won't fit the same way. I've measured my head MANY times and it's never exact. Sometimes its 22 1/2 sometimes it's 22 3/4. Either of those fits the FED IV 58 which I ordered. But now when I think about it, band shrinkage makes me second guess.
My fieldmaster 7 1/4 fits me pretty well now, after a week of wearing, sweating, slight stretching, and leather softening. When I flip it inside out and measure it, I get 22 1/2 and it fits fine, snug would be the word.
I dunno if it's too late to change my order size to 59 but should I be so concerned?While It may fit out of the box, I'm afraid it'll shrink and pancake my head.

Iowa · Post by **Iowa** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:32 pm

IndianaSolo wrote:Back to the topic... The Fed IV hat sizing relative to modern day hat sizing.
My Akubra Adventurer 58 fit me perfectly after a few wears, but from what I hear my Fed IV won't fit the same way. I've measured my head MANY times and it's never exact. Sometimes its 22 1/2 sometimes it's 22 3/4. Either of those fits the FED IV 58 which I ordered. But now when I think about it, band shrinkage makes me second guess.
My fieldmaster 7 1/4 fits me pretty well now, after a week of wearing, sweating, slight stretching, and leather softening. When I flip it inside out and measure it, I get 22 1/2 and it fits fine, snug would be the word.
I dunno if it's too late to change my order size to 59 but should I be so concerned?While It may fit out of the box, I'm afraid it'll shrink and pancake my head.

I could certainly be wrong, but the way I understand their size guide a size 58 would actually measure 57.5 cm. If your head is 22.5 in, that translates to 57.15 cm, so I would think you'd be fine. And for shrinkage, while I haven't owned an Akubra before, my experience with hats in general is that as long as you wear it regularly it shouldn't shrink beyond just conforming to your head, because each time you put it on it stretches/shapes the band to fit you. If you get it really wet then it would probably be a good idea to put it on a hat jack or your noggin every few hours as it dries to keep it from shrinking too much, but day-to-day it should be fine.

I hope I'm not wrong with all this, because if I am then my hat probably won't fit me either!

I measure from 59 cm to 60 cm, and anything in between, so I stuck with my order of a size 60, thinking that if I average my measurments it should be 59.5 cm, which is right on for a 60.

BoilermakerJones · Post by **BoilermakerJones** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:10 pm

In my order I stated that my head measurement was 23 1/4. Deb said that they would look for a large 59 or a small 60 for me.

Matt

Iowa · Post by **Iowa** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:12 pm

BoilermakerJones wrote:In my order I stated that my head measurement was 23 1/4. Deb said that they would look for a large 59 or a small 60 for me.

Matt

You can't beat service like that!

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:29 pm

Michaelson wrote:

Time DOES remain the same, as you point out, but it's dependent on what is being used to time an event. You may be suprised that your '18 par secs' is actually faster when using a digital timer than if you timed it with a mechanical timer, due to the physical nature it takes to make the mechanical timer work. The more friction is introduced into an equation, the slower that unit becomes. Therefore, no, '18 par secs' is NOT the same everytime you measure it.
Granted, all timers must meet a standard, and therefore, theoritically, ALL timers shold prove to hold the same measurement....but reality has a way of kicking that in the head when the 'rubber meets the road' at an actual event.

Same with anything else you measure. It's all dependent on the agreed upon device being used to make that measurement, and how many agree to that particular designated measure.

Shrinkage can be a big factor! The International Bureau of Weights and Standards has to make adjustment every so often. (Yes this does happen. It actually happened just last week when it was discovered that the master measurement of the kilogram had actually lost a fraction of it's original weight since being set in the 1960's! No explaination of why, and it was just a very few decimal points of a difference, but it HAD changed! So, the master scale had to recalibrated for comparison to new international scales being sold from this week on. The scientists stated that it ws not enough for them to require recalibration or recall of the existing standard weight scales being currently used....but an offical change had to be made to the master scale listing, and any weight scales made from that time on. Complicated, ain't it? )

As has been already ponted out, the Bureau also makes adjustment for general size changes in the human form and size, so those scales are adjusted as well.

In the world of weights and measurements, there are absolute standards, but not necessarily FIXED standards when it comes to mans need to measure something. It's what ever is required at any given moment in history.

Did that make sense?

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:32 pm

Oddly enough, THAT photo makes perfect sense.

Regards! Michaelson

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:35 pm

Is the Color on the Pancake SA?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:16 pm

I just want to know if the bunny is brown or gray.

BoilermakerJones · Post by **BoilermakerJones** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:24 pm

Are you planning to make a seaplane hat out of it?

Matt

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:55 am

How long does it take to get the brim swoop right on that pancake?!?!?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:59 am

About three minutes on each side.

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:05 am

I tried to avoid waffle cone tapering.

Indiana Jess · Post by **Indiana Jess** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:09 pm

Perhaps the bunny is attempting to convince HatsDirect to cease it's use of rabbit fur.

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:27 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:Here's todays forecast, folks! Brighter during the day and darker at night. Now to Minnesota for sports!

Ummmm... okay!

The Vikings aren't playing at this time, the Minnesota Wild lost in the playoffs, the Timberwolves lost too. And the Twins.... well, I don't follow them either!

So.... that's all I have.

imagine671 · Post by **imagine671** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:33 pm

Last week, I received an e-mail saying my order had been processed and my hat was going to be shipped the next day, however I never received an e-mail regarding this hat size issue. After taking a look at the site, I see that if your head measures between a 57 and a 58, they recommend the 58. Okay, so TECHNICALLY, my head measures 57.5, so the 58 should be fine, right? That said, I have owned a Christy's size 58, and it's a little snug on me. If my measurement didn't land EXACTLY on the higher limit to the Fed IV '58' and the lower limit to the Fed IV '59', I would feel a lot better about this! Actually, after writing all this, I realize it's a waste of everyone's time, as the only way we'll know if the hat will fit me or not will be when it's on my head. Sigh...oh well...just voicing a concern, I guess. Take care, all!

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:32 pm

Okay, so TECHNICALLY, my head measures 57.5, so the 58 should be fine, right?

That is how I took the email. 60's are sloppy on my head and 59's leave a mark. So a size 60 that comes in true at 59.5cm is spot on. So, as Goldilocks says, "This one is just right."

oswd · Post by **oswd** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:51 am

Hello
If my head measured 58'5 cm, the size is supposed to be the 59.
¿:-|?

imagine671 · Post by **imagine671** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:08 am

That's the way I see it, oswd. Get the size 59. It will be close, but I can't imagine recommending going all the way to a size 60. Ron sent me a message saying my hat had been sent out as size 58 (my head measures 57.5) and I should be fine, but then...I received notification that the hat had been shipped BEFORE finding out about this size discrepancy thing. Oh well, I'm not too bothered. It will all work out. =) Good luck!!

oswd · Post by **oswd** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:15 am

Sorry for my english.

Thank you for your reply imagine671

I've seen in his page
http://www.hatsdirect.com/federation/size.html
Fed IV Size: 59
True Size: 58.5
Your cms size: 22 3 / 4 - 23 1 / 8
Your cms size: 58 to 59
Order: 59

The size seems to be 59.

Greetings