A Sad day for My Keppler Fedora :( - Update.

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:40 pm

So yesterday I got my Keppler (Thrilled)And since I now have 2/3 of my ordered hats I ordered some Rain & Stain from NogginTops. Met up with my wife after work and went for a walk in the park next to our home. It was a pretty nice day and I said why not...
We were already deep in the park when... The sprinklers turned on.
We ran away as fast as we could be we were soaked by the time we got out, and of course, MY HAT was drenched.
By Lee's instructions I left the hat to dry on the shelf with the brim down. I came home now after letting it dry for 6 hours and to my disappointment the hat has been changed.

Here were the pictures taken just a few minutes ago.

And for comparison purposes, this is what it looked like JUST yesterday

So karma is a B!@#&. The hat no longer appeals to me so I dunno what to do. I'm thinking of selling it, obviously at a great loss. What do you think?

UPDATE:

Spoke to Lee. HE IS ONE TRULY AMAZING GUY. He explained to me what could've happened and what my options are. While the outcome of this situation is atypical, it's not beyond Lee's ability to mend. He knows his craft and will offer his services to make sure you're satisfied. For those who choose Lee, you will not be disappointed. He will take care of you from beginning to end (just be sure to call him and don't rely on email)

TheChimp · Post by **TheChimp** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:17 am

Do as you will, but if it were I, I would keep the hat. That doesn't mean I wouldn't save up and buy another (I probably would), but the way I look at it is, as well as being a fashion statement, a hat also protects you from the elements, so go ahead and wear it on another rainy day without fear. It's darkened, but the the hat doesn't look seriously deformed, and still very wearable. What more can really happen to it?

edit: looking at it again, it's a little worse for wear than I first thought, but really I still think you've got a wearable hat that you can "throw around" if you want to. No?

Argonaut · Post by **Argonaut** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:27 am

Is re-blocking an option? Experts?

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:57 am

No expert here, but all my hats have taken a good taper after they have been soaked and a good reblock has always straightened them out. The only one that I have that has been truly stable is my 30+ year old fedora I've shown to this group. If this hat is fairly new, the felt is going to be prone to contracting, and may need to be reblocked a few more times before it ages and stabilizes.

Don't get rid of it man! Re-block it, wear it, let it develop some character, and re-block it again if the taper bothers you. It may eventually settle down so this doesn't happen every time you get soaked. Again, I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure the knowledgeable ones will tell you the same thing.

Weston

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:04 am

Yeah, seriously, Don't get rid of it. Send it to Steve, Marc, PB or Optimo and let them reblock it. Trust me when I say this: your hat is NOT ruined...it just needs a tune-up. :junior: -M

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:19 am

I put it up on the bazaar. If I don't have a buyer within a week, Ill see what I can do about a reblock. The hat feels deliciously soft and smooth and it's just a joy to hold, but I need something that can stand up to punishment. My old wool BCF, which is now long gone, stayed with me for a year and that hat was with me when I was dragged by my motorcycle(LONG story) and when I fell in the pool while fighting with my cousin. I only got rid of hit after getting a DP, and then got rid of that because I found COW and knew what a real Indy hat was supposed to be like. I LOVE Lee's hat, I wanted to hug it when it came in but I might get the new fed ONLY because its an akubra and I KNOW can stand up to some crazy !@#$.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:51 am

I am glad I waited for Lee's new fedora. I hope it won't happen to me when I recieve mine as I live in South Florida and rain storm come in unannounced and unexpectedly.

I'm sorry for your loss Solo. But I agree with eveyone else, I think a good reblock will do the hat some good. Just break it in.

Dave

Luke Warmwater · Post by **Luke Warmwater** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:38 am

Gee whiz, I can't see anything wrong with it, but then my eyes are still untrained.

Farnham54 · Post by **Farnham54** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:39 am

I certainly wouldn't sell that thing--it's a great hat from a great vendor, all it needs is a little TLC to get it back in prime shape.

Get it reblocked and cleaned, but don't sell it!

Cheers
Craig

Honolulu Jones · Post by **Honolulu Jones** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:13 am

Aside from a bit of taper -- which you could probably re-bash yourself with a bit of steam -- what's the problem? The hat looks fine to me from the pics.

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:53 am

Solo,

Sorry for your frustration. As an aside, you need to resize your photos - 640x480.

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:28 am

The hat is literally BRAND SPANKIN NEW. A reblock from PB goes for $80+
Marc uses Euro so his would be even higher. Steve is stacked with orders. Plus it would take at least 6 more weeks. Unfortunatley there is no fedora insurance in existence. While the hat is indeed wearable and still fresh, That it no longer looks like the hat I bought...

Lee did a beautiful job and I hope he can forgive me. I think someone here would love to have it.
I was also about to post my Adventurer for sale. I guess fate loves throwing curveballs.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:39 am

IndianaSolo wrote:The hat is literally BRAND SPANKIN NEW. A reblock from PB goes for $80+
Marc uses Euro so his would be even higher. Steve is stacked with orders. Plus it would take at least 6 more weeks. Unfortunatley there is no fedora insurance in existence. While the hat is indeed wearable and still fresh, That it no longer looks like the hat I bought...

Well who's is? Sorry if I'm sounding unsympathetic, but you're coming off as a bit whiney. The whole POINT of an Indy hat is that you love it and still spend time with it no matter how weather-worn it looks - kind of like a spouse

If you're just going to get rid of it because it got tapered, then I'm sorry to tell you that it never was an Indy hat to begin with. An Indy hat is about more than just having a perfect screen-accurate look, it's about wearing and loving a hat even when it's had the tar kicked out of it. Based on your buying and selling habits, I'd say you're never going to find a real Indy hat, whether you buy a Dorfman or an AB deluxe. :junior: -M

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:45 am

I'd touch bases with Lee first. One soaking and it tapering that bad is NOT normal. Even my Millers took several soakings before they gave up THAT much curve, and that's saying something, as Millers are notorious for giving up the ghost after a soak.

Lee may have received a bad batch of felt in that order.

Mulcber, sorry, but I can't agree with you this round. One time out and it to go like this is NOT normal, and to have paid that much for something that has always been touted as being able to take it like Lee's hats have, only to have it taper (make that 'shrink) with one dousing is just not acceptable to my way of thinking.

If Lee can't do anything, I'd offer it for sale too.

Regards! Michaelson

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:57 am

I checked out the photos you had of it up in the Marketplace and it is pretty bad; it looks much worse than I thought it was. Sorry for your loss Solo. You lost today, but it doesn't mean you have to like it.

Talk to Lee, as Michaelson said. I'm sure that he would be more than willing to work something out with you. You shouldn't have to take such a huge loss on a brand spanking new product, as you put it.

Dave

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:58 am

Michaelson wrote:I'd touch bases with Lee first. One soaking and it tapering that bad is NOT normal. Even my Millers took several soakings before they gave up THAT much curve, and that's saying something, as Millers are notorious for giving up the ghost after a soak.

Lee may have received a bad batch of felt in that order.

Mulcber, sorry, but I can't agree with you this round. One time out and it to go like this is NOT normal, and to have paid that much for something that has always been touted as being able to take it like Lee's hats have, only to have it taper (make that 'shrink) with one dousing is just not acceptable to my way of thinking.

If Lee can't do anything, I'd offer it for sale too.

Regards! Michaelson

Pretty Much what I was about to say.

ztmario · Post by **ztmario** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:57 am

reminds me almost exactly of my camptown. the second serious outing it had was for a halloween party up at rutgers.. I woke up in my friends driveway completely soaked from a rainstorm and the hat was not only DRENCHED, but crushed into a ball underneath me.

needless to say, I was a little annoyed, but it didn't really bother me because I had no idea it would taper and I figured what kind of indiana jones hat would it be if it couldn't take a soaking and crushing or two? well.. when it dried, it had a pretty bad taper that was very apparent when I wore the hat. however, I was able to just wet the felt and stuff the crown with toilet paper to dry and a lot of the taper came out. I'm sure I could have done even better with steam, but I'm lazy. also, after intentionally crushing the hat every once in a while and rebashing it, I think it has a lot more character now.

although, I guess if you want a perfectly straight hat, your best bet is to just sell it. my hat is almost 100% for costume purposes, so I'd rather it be a bit beat up. I always thought it looked kind of wrong when it was perfect.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:04 pm

....the second serious outing it had was for a halloween party up at rutgers.. I woke up in my friends driveway completely soaked from a rainstorm and the hat was not only DRENCHED, but crushed into a ball underneath me.

needless to say, I was a little annoyed.....

Uh, I'm not sure that you can compare a hat tapering from a single soaking from sprinkler system to this pretty extreme situation that your Camptown experienced.

By the way...what in the world were you doing waking up in your friend's driveway soaking wet?

No, never mind.

Regards! Michaelson

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:10 pm

Sad thing.. yeah, I'd talk with Lee he's a great guy to deal with so it should go ok.

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:19 pm

Hey Solo,

Definitely reach out to Lee. That's very odd indeed. Maybe there was an error in the felt run? He'd be the one to check it out for you.

Ken

ztmario · Post by **ztmario** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:36 pm

Michaelson wrote:
....the second serious outing it had was for a halloween party up at rutgers.. I woke up in my friends driveway completely soaked from a rainstorm and the hat was not only DRENCHED, but crushed into a ball underneath me.

needless to say, I was a little annoyed.....
Uh, I'm not sure that you can compare a hat tapering from a single soaking from sprinkler system to this pretty extreme situation that your Camptown experienced.

By the way...what in the world were you doing waking up in your friend's driveway soaking wet?

No, never mind.

Regards! Michaelson

oooh no.. they're two completely different situations. knowing nothing about fedoras, I have no idea how much the felt should be able to take without tapering. I was just saying how the taper really isn't the worst thing in the world. but I guess that depends.. if he wanted a dress hat, the taper is a bad thing. if he bought it to be an indiana jones hat.. well, it would taper eventually anyway, right? I dunno. my camptown is in the dryer right now as we speak, so what do I know about hats, right?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:50 pm

I would invest in a block, one size smaller than your hat size. Use my block on file with Lamode West. If your hat gets really wet, just pull it down over the block to dry. No reblock fees, ever!!

And if you expect rain, be sure and treat the hat heavily with a water repellant like Scouts before you get caught in a rain.

The Raiders block is a very straight sided block, and will tend to taper more than a hat that came with a taper to it to begin with. All hats start out as cones. The straighter sided the block used to make the hat, the more the hat has a tendency to taper once it gets soaked,and dries.

For you guys who want your hats to remain as straight as the day you got them, please invest in one of my blocks. It will pay for itself in a couple of years, and you never have to be without a hat!! Fedora

Canasta · Post by **Canasta** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:45 pm

Sorry if you have mentioned this before Steve, but how much are your blocks and are they available?

All the best,
C

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:12 pm

i'm sorry to hear about the taper monster getting to you. my fed reg was victim to it so i know how you feel.

a question for you......why did you let it dry brim down? i would never rest a hat on it's brim regularly let alone when it's soaking wet.

if my fed ever got soaked, i'd punch out the dents and stuff it with paper and let it dry sitting on the crown.....isn't that what your suppose to do to avoid taper? resting a hat on its brim just provokes the taper no?

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:15 pm

resting a hat on its brim just provokes the taper no?

Yep.

Regard! Michaelson

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:35 pm

Besides a block, what else can be used to dry a wet hat and still help prevent taper?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:09 pm

Besides a block, what else can be used to dry a wet hat and still help prevent taper?

As mentioned above, NEVER sit a wet hat on its brim to dry. It pushes in the sides and if it dries like that, instant taper.

The other thing is, to dry a wet hat, don't dry at a very high temp. Dry at a low temp. Even a 75 degree house may be too hot if the hat sits in front of the air vent. Try to dry at 65 degrees. It will take a few days to dry, but you will get less taper, or none at all by slow drying.

The run of felt can be the culprit, and is beyond Lee's control. My bodies are pretty consistent, but every now and then I get a couple in that I can tell were not felted properly. So, I over stretch after shrinking it up, and then shrink up to the right height, but this takes extra work. A hat factory is not apt to do that. They just run em' and you get what they make.

The nature of felt is to shrink, and shrink, and shrink. But usually if a hat shrinks real fast, the blockshape was not "set" well enough, or it was not run through the feltmaker machine enough times. I see this in the HJs I do for Indy Mag. The felt is highly unstable, but once you stabilize it, the felt ain't half bad. This is NOT the case with Lee's felt though. His felt from my experience is not unstable at all.

I think at least part of the problem with your fast taper on Lee's hat is the way you dried it out. It should have been sit on its crown, once you popped out the creases, and then dried at low temps. Should have taken a couple of days or more to dry completely. Just my opinon. Fedora

PyramidBlaster · Post by **PyramidBlaster** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:38 pm

I would invest in a block, one size smaller than your hat size.

If I may ask...Why a size smaller? Especially when hats tend to shrink...?

I totally need to invest in a hat block....

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:39 pm

So ya don't have to take out the sweatband, probably.

Shane

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:47 pm

Canasta wrote:Sorry if you have mentioned this before Steve, but how much are your blocks and are they available?

All the best,
C

Check it out;http://www.lamodewoodhatblocks.com/index.htm

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:52 pm

PyramidBlaster wrote: If I may ask...Why a size smaller? Especially when hats tend to shrink...?

I totally need to invest in a hat block....

Fedora, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was told that normally when a hat is first made, it's blocked on the actual sized block, without the sweatband in. But for reblocking, using a size smaller allows for the thickness of the sweatband. Using the same size would actually stretch the hat.

Anyone know if I'm misinformed?

PyramidBlaster · Post by **PyramidBlaster** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:58 pm

Guess that makes sense...

Lee Keppler · Post by **Lee Keppler** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:41 pm

I heard the drying instructions from someone in a hat store many years ago, and now see I was misinformed. Fedora, your drying tutorial has been printed out. I bow to the master. My sincere thanks

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:58 am

I wouldn't e too hasty in wanting to offload the hat. I would try to see what can be done to correct the taper first and talk with Lee, I'm sure he can resolve the situation. From what I hear his customer service is A+ and that is the end all be all for me. Best of luck to you!

Cheers!

Dan

Magnum Jones · Post by **Magnum Jones** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:15 am

I avoid getting my hat wet. You can buy a hat cover for just a few dollars. Toss one in your mkVII and it's not an issue for me.

PyramidBlaster · Post by **PyramidBlaster** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:24 am

You can buy a hat cover for just a few dollars.

Yeah, that works...But it's not really in the spirit of things, is it? Me personally, I'd get no end of cr@p from my friends if I pulled that one...

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:07 am

Yeah...I'm not so sure about that one either. I'm sure it works well, but if I buy a fedora, I want it to stand up to the elements as best as possible without any sort of help from plastic.

Dave

Magnum Jones · Post by **Magnum Jones** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:15 pm

I agree it is not the best looking thing, but unlike Indy I dont have 40 hats. I try to avoid getting in serious rain, but if it happens I'm not going to ruin my lid or send it out for work. Just pull the cover and it's dry. Some day I'd like to get an AB but I think with the new movie coming out they are going to be very hard to come by for quite some time.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:41 pm

Well, the sooner you order the sooner you'll get it. Not that hard to come by, you just have to wait.

Dave

ztmario · Post by **ztmario** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:50 pm

I'm probably in the minority, but I really don't think the taper is that bad of a thing. when I got home with my camptown, I put it on for my mom, and the first thing she said was "that's a HUGE hat". and she was right. I trimmed the #### out of the brim (even after ken had trimmed it himself out of the trunk of his car at a parkway rest stop

) and that made it a little better, but even after wearing it out on halloween a couple of times, I still thought the crown was just overpowering for my head. and to be honest, even though I'll be the first to admit that brand new AB's look awesome on everyone, I think that the crowns are too overpowering for 90% of the people I see wearing them on here. it's hard to explain why.. I just think that they look weird being that straight and tall on most people's heads.

now after I got the taper BAD.. the hat looked stupid and ugly on me. but after spraying it down with water, stuffing the crown with hand towels and throwing it in the dryer on low heat for 30 minutes, the hat looks the best I've ever seen it. it's not that tapered anymore, but it doesn't look like it was just chiseled out of wood either. it's straight and rounded and beautiful. even the brim seems to fan out better now. so basically, I think a little taper is good for everyone!! just my .02 though..

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:38 pm

Again, honestly, it doesn't look all that bad. The back shot of the hat sort of looks like the one AC posted of his JPD. I would just go ahead and wear the hat, play with it & see if you can either reduce the minor taper or makes something that looks like Ac's JPD. Worth a shot anyway.

Cheers!

Dan

Alathea · Post by **Alathea** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:52 pm

I guess I don't know what to look for-its a great looking hat. Maybe you are letting it bother you more than it should, since about 98% of the population wouldn't know how to wear it, much less what to look for in a taper, block, or felt type.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:57 pm

It's not that it's bad. Most all of our hats end up with the taper we're seeing on this hat. It's just not quite right to see this much after one, single wetting!

Alathea, look at the before and after photos of the hat again, and pay particular attention to the very top of the hat where the curve is from sides to top of crown. Instead of looking like this "l l", it now looks like this
"/ \". That's due to the natural tendency of a hat cone to attempt to return to it's original shape after being wet then drying again.

Steve and Marc 'kill' their felts by some special proprietary method so this taper does not happen, or SLIGHTLY occurs. Otherwise, it's natural in hats, but usually takes a LOT of wetting and a LOT of time for it to occur.

One has to wonder what this hat would do should it receive yet another like wetting. Might look like a dunce cap!

Regards! Michaelson

Alathea · Post by **Alathea** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:14 pm

Those were before and AFTER? Ill go look again-thats probably what I missed. I scrolled through rather quickly....

Ken-Obi Wanabi · Post by **Ken-Obi Wanabi** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:29 pm

Michaelson wrote:Alathea, look at the before and after photos of the hat again, and pay particular attention to the very top of the hat where the curve is from sides to top of crown. Instead of looking like this "l l", it now looks like this
"/ ". That's due to the natural tendency of a hat cone to attempt to return to it's original shape after being wet then drying again.

Thanks for the informative post - being a hat newbie, I couldn't spot the taper either, until I read your post Michaelson.

I have one of Todd's Costumes hat stands - is that good for storing the hat to dry on? My hat will probably sit on that 90% of the time (while it's on display), but I will wear it costuming and I might wear it when I'm out hiking for fun.

Sorry about your hat IndianaSolo - I hope it works out for you! I'm expecting my AB within a couple of weeks and I'd be really ticked if it got messed up within a day of getting it.

gabrielle · Post by **gabrielle** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:19 pm

I have a Keppler too and have been out in the rain twice at least with no ill effects. I didn't know about pushing the dents out and letting it dry slowly, I just set it away from the heat on a hat stand and let it dry. It looks the same as the day it arrived only softer and the brim is floppier. I used Scout on it so maybe that's the key to avoid shrinkage and I have a hat stretcher I use when I'm not wearing it for a couple days due to work.