Adventurebilt: Official Alden retailer

michaeljcr · Post by **michaeljcr** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:04 am

I've only just seen this thread and obviously congratulations to Marc for making it possible to get 'the' boot. I must confess though that I've been a little puzzled by the negative feedback around cost, the reasons for which it seems were made pretty clear by Marc. These boots cost a little more to manufacture because they're a special order, but the real cost is because they're being retailed in Europe. American brand goods cost more in Europe when retailed through official distributors.

To give you what I hope is a useful example from the UK, a standard pair of six inch Timberland nubuck boots retails for $150 in the USA, according to their website. In the UK, I have to pay £130 for the same boots, which is $256 (rounded up). Now, why am I paying nearly twice the price? Partly it's down to exchange rates, partly due to import/export cost and partly, on a very mercenary level, because they know that they can get away with it. Electronics, clothing, DVD's and just about every other type consumer good simply cost more in Europe.

Those of you based in North America, the USA in particular, are being asked to pay double the price because you're buying US goods via Europe. No hidden agendas, no cynical extra price inflation, just the normal cost of buying at European prices. It's frustrating, it must seem very wrong for the US customers especially, but welcome to shopping the European way!

sneakertinker · Post by **sneakertinker** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:34 pm

I just cannot wait to get my pair...

RichardSK · Post by **RichardSK** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:02 am

I found this post rather late, but Texas Raider is on the mark. Who, besides Indy fans, actually buy these shoes? Uh, no one? So, what is up with Aldens that they don't make the 405's in the correct color? (Who cares about the SA lining?) Marc can keep his $700 custom shoes (and the Hawaii store's $650 shoe) and Marc's Deluxe hat versus Steve's hat.

We want the truest item that we can get, but there is a limit. Take a step back, look at what is available, choose wisely, and realize that we aren't Indiana Jones and it isn't 1981 (or 1936). Whether everyday clothing, or Halloween costume, or prom attire, take all of this with a grain of salt and some sensibility. No one will will have and look, ever, like Harrison Ford in Raiders except for Harrison Ford 27 years ago. Live with it.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:09 am

Finally found a possibility to go after me again Richard?

Would you mind telling me what exactly your problem is with me? Asside from calling me a selfish pig (or something similar) in the Fedora section, I never really understood where your problem origins from...

Regards,

Marc

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:00 am

You know me, and I love a good stirring of the pot, but I think this thing needs to go to PM's.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:24 am

If I am called out by someone who doesn't know me nor my products but take the liberty to question both publically, then I believe it's my right to know what exactly is going on, no?

Regards,

Marc

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:56 am

Yes, without question, but you also should first try to do it with a bit of class. That's not supposed to sound as crass as it does, but if it were me, I would first try to deal with it privately, allow the admin to deal with it here publicly, and then if all else fails deal with it however you need too.

I may be wrong, but this person seems to be calling into question your perceived tendency to be a tad...ummm...quick to act, and from where I am sitting, you're not exactly helping your case.

Again, I suggest you take it private, as well as PM admin and get them to clean this up ASAP.

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:29 am

Marc wrote:Finally found a possibility to go after me again Richard?

Would you mind telling me what exactly your problem is with me? Asside from calling me a selfish pig (or something similar) in the Fedora section, I never really understood where your problem origins from...

Regards,

Marc

I don't see where Marc DIDN'T use class in this response. He's asking why Richard is singling him out. Like Richard stated, if he thinks there is a limit, why do we bother buying an AB at all. Plenty of Dorfmans out there that could use a good home on someones head. Considering we aren't Indiana Jones.
'Blues

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:55 am

I don't see where Marc DIDN'T use class in this response.

I think what I meant is it's not the best thing in my opinion to respond to this kind of thing on the forum. Use PM's and sort it out there...

What Richard is saying, isn't really the point.

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:20 am

He's asking why Richard is singling him out. Like Richard stated, if he thinks there is a limit, why do we bother buying an AB at all.

And to address this; I think Richard is making a valid point. Indy Gear collecting is something that everyone should do with a gain of reality as well as fun.

In my opinion, when someone makes gear for the sole purpose of selling it to Indiana Jones fans I think there is a responsibility to make sure that the items being sold are done so with everyone in mind.

Making replica gear in my opinion is a privilege, not a right. Many people make money of the hard work of others and that is fine, if it's done so with respect.

If anyone selling gear decides to offer a deal no matter what the item is, that drives the price up, for whatever reason to the point of almost insanity, then I think it's perfectly legit for someone to ask why.

I think what Richard was getting at was that this deal doesn't sound right for the end result. If I am reading it right, Richard is making a the point that sometimes people need to take a big step back and be positive that the item being offered is valued what it is because of legit reasons, and not because of some other motive.

Again, I think this comes back to what I was saying before. Marc feels singled out because people keep asking the same questions over and over again, and, well.....it seems that Marc is choosing not to answer them for whatever reason, and implying that people should drop money on his deal for who he is, and not what he is offering.

I have yet to see photos, read specs, or have any reason at all why these boots are priced at what they are. And, I know many of you have said it's all about the exchange, well...turns out a few others have been looking into this a little more, and it turns out that maybe this deal isn't as amazing as it first sounds.

I for one have a source for the exact same boot, for no more than $50 - $150 on top of the regular price. Not only that, but I have the exact specs, shipping times, and on pretty good authority that Alden DOES in fact want more business/customers, and is looking to expand it's market.

People have been accusing me of going after Marc for no reason at all, and this has been the furthest from the truth. I don't know Marc, I don't own one of his products, I have had no prior dealings with him, and I have no reason, or care to single him out for the sole purpose of making trouble.

I am happy for the success he has had, I find his posts and such to be courteous and professional, and I think he's doing great things for the community.

The reason I am posting is because I have been asking for SOME justification of this price. I am asking why the boots are doubled in price. I want to know, down to the material, mark up, shipping, exchange, etc...WHY this deal was made that in my opinion is taking advantage of the people of this forum, and until I get a straight answer, then I'll continue to ask...and asking, seems like a pretty legit thing to do when $700 is involved.

michaeljcr · Post by **michaeljcr** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:40 am

RichardSK wrote:I found this post rather late, but Texas Raider is on the mark. Who, besides Indy fans, actually buy these shoes? Uh, no one? So, what is up with Aldens that they don't make the 405's in the correct color? (Who cares about the SA lining?) Marc can keep his $700 custom shoes (and the Hawaii store's $650 shoe) and Marc's Deluxe hat versus Steve's hat.

We want the truest item that we can get, but there is a limit. Take a step back, look at what is available, choose wisely, and realize that we aren't Indiana Jones and it isn't 1981 (or 1936). Whether everyday clothing, or Halloween costume, or prom attire, take all of this with a grain of salt and some sensibility. No one will will have and look, ever, like Harrison Ford in Raiders except for Harrison Ford 27 years ago. Live with it.

First, I very much doubt it's only Indy fans that buy the boots, but even if it is, I bet members of forums like this one are in the minority of the total number of buyers. Also, you have to remember that as far as Alden's are concerned, the Indiana Jones fan market is not their priority. Now I agree it would be nice if they offered the original boot, especially as the current colour doesn't appeal to me personally, but why on earth persecute the guy who's made it possible for people to buy the correct colour and specs? The issue continually being brought up here is price, which I think has been established isn't Marc's decision to make, so why make it personal?

Also, if I understand your second point correctly, you're suggesting that there's an acceptable limit to how much a person should spend on Indy gear. Why is that? People spend vast amounts of money on other hobbies, why should this be any different? You also seem to implying that people who spend more on these deluxe or just plain expensive items are trying to 'be' Indiana Jones or live in the past. I've got an AB from Steve and an AB Dlx on the go with Marc and I'm looking forward to that Roo hide sweat band! I like Indy's Fedora and saw Marc's as the best possible quality on offer, so I bought one of each. Speaking for myself, I have no delusions about my status as a hat wearing adventurer of the 1930's and simply enjoy owning good quality items. I would genuinely like you to explain in a reasonable and rational way what you think is wrong with that, otherwise who are you to lecture me or others on how we spend our money?

Finally, your use of 'we' is a bit much, implying as it does that you speak for a collective group. Your post above is your opinion, perhaps shared by others, but essentially nothing more, just as mine is nothing more than one person's view.

WeeMadHamish · Post by **WeeMadHamish** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:47 am

crazy-man:

On one hand, I see your point. On the other... NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE BUY $700 BOOTS. If the price is that big of a deal, DON'T BUY THEM.

It's that simple. They're replica boots for an Indiana Jones costume, not gas or bread or some other commodity that no-one can survive without.

The vendor is not the only one that needs to step back and look at the hobby with a bit of realistic perspective. None of us actually NEED any of these things.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:48 am

An 'in and out' question, if I may.

How much are you folks in Europe paying for a standard pair of 405's? I have no idea what the exchange rate or customs cost is, so this is an honest question.

What are you having to shell out to order a pair of standard run of the mill new 405's?

Regards! Michaelson

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:04 am

First, I very much doubt it's only Indy fans that buy the boots, but even if it is, I bet members of forums like this one are in the minority of the total number of buyers. Also, you have to remember that as far as Alden's are concerned, the Indiana Jones fan market is not their priority.

Maybe you missed my previous post. I said that from the information I am getting, Alden does in fact take the Indy fans seriously. I have been told that the owner himself has been talking to someone and they might be a little more open to this idea than it may seem.

Now this is just hearsay right now, so keep that in mind.

Now I agree it would be nice if they offered the original boot, especially as the current colour doesn't appeal to me personally, but why on earth persecute the guy who's made it possible for people to buy the correct colour and specs? The issue continually being brought up here is price, which I think has been established isn't Marc's decision to make, so why make it personal?

I am telling you, they DO offer the original boot, and for WAY less than $700! And the reason I am "prosecuting" him as you call it, is for the same reason I just said 5 seconds before. There has been no reason given why the price is what it is, other than someone saying that Alden said so.

Also, if I understand your second point correctly, you're suggesting that there's an acceptable limit to how much a person should spend on Indy gear. Why is that?

I like Indy's Fedora and saw Marc's as the best possible quality on offer, so I bought one of each.

No, I think he was saying, or at least I am, that there should be reasonable limits for the price gear is set at, not only because it's the right thing to do, but also because like Ebay, there are some people who, for whatever reasons will buy anything put in front of them for any price and this drives up the cost for the responsible buyers.

NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE BUY $700 BOOTS. If the price is that big of a deal, DON'T BUY THEM.

I think you're not seeing the whole picture. This is not about me being forced to buy anything or not...it's about someone making a deal that could potentially set the price so high that I will never have the option of ever getting them.

I will NEVER spend $700 on a pair of boots that are 100% the same as the other boots. If they're not the same, then what Alden is telling us is that the boots we were buying before aren't the best quality. I want to know why these boots are worth so much more....and not for the bad reasons given.

michaeljcr · Post by **michaeljcr** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:05 am

And to address this; I think Richard is making a valid point. Indy Gear collecting is something that everyone should do with a gain of reality as well as fun.

I'd agree with the sentiment, but to have someone else feel the need to lecture me on hanging on to reality is essentially insulting, especially when it concerns what I spend my money on and why.

In my opinion, when someone makes gear for the sole purpose of selling it to Indiana Jones fans I think there is a responsibility to make sure that the items being sold are done so with everyone in mind.

Making replica gear in my opinion is a privilege, not a right. Many people make money of the hard work of others and that is fine, if it's done so with respect.

Again, I respect the sentiment, but it's hugely unrealistic to expect items marketed and advertised as high end goods to be affordable to everyone or, perhaps, even most people. There are cheaper alternatives, the AB Dlx stuff being offered are high end goods that cost more to produce.

If anyone selling gear decides to offer a deal no matter what the item is, that drives the price up, for whatever reason to the point of almost insanity, then I think it's perfectly legit for someone to ask why.

Well, he has answered the price question. Alden's set the price.

I think what Richard was getting at was that this deal doesn't sound right for the end result. If I am reading it right, Richard is making a the point that sometimes people need to take a big step back and be positive that the item being offered is valued what it is because of legit reasons, and not because of some other motive.

Again, I think this comes back to what I was saying before. Marc feels singled out because people keep asking the same questions over and over again, and, well.....it seems that Marc is choosing not to answer them for whatever reason, and implying that people should drop money on his deal for who he is, and not what he is offering.

I have yet to see photos, read specs, or have any reason at all why these boots are priced at what they are. And, I know many of you have said it's all about the exchange, well...turns out a few others have been looking into this a little more, and it turns out that maybe this deal isn't as amazing as it first sounds.

I for one have a source for the exact same boot, for no more than $50 - $150 on top of the regular price. Not only that, but I have the exact specs, shipping times, and on pretty good authority that Alden DOES in fact want more business/customers, and is looking to expand it's market.

I find the last point here most interesting, but I'd love to know if the alternate supplier is in Europe or North America. If it's Europe that would seem to be a very valid point, it it's in North America it just doesn't mean anything. Nearly all manufacturer's charge more in Europe for consumer goods, just like the Timberland example I listed above. I'm typing this on a Macbook that cost considerably more than if I'd bought it in the USA. It's not all about exchange rates, USA companies in particular set higher than justifiable European retail prices simply because that's a normal business model. Presuming Aldern's have followed their normal European price plan for this special run of boots, you can't realistically expect them to change their entire pricing plan just to appease a few Indy fans. Business just doesn't work that way, despite the fact that we might all wish it did!

People have been accusing me of going after Marc for no reason at all, and this has been the furthest from the truth. I don't know Marc, I don't own one of his products, I have had no prior dealings with him, and I have no reason, or care to single him out for the sole purpose of making trouble.

I am happy for the success he has had, I find his posts and such to be courteous and professional, and I think he's doing great things for the community.

The reason I am posting is because I have been asking for SOME justification of this price. I am asking why the boots are doubled in price. I want to know, down to the material, mark up, shipping, exchange, etc...WHY this deal was made that in my opinion is taking advantage of the people of this forum, and until I get a straight answer, then I'll continue to ask...and asking, seems like a pretty legit thing to do when $700 is involved.

I guess the problem here is that, as I mentioned above, people don't seem to accept the fact that Alden's have set the price (for whatever reason) and seem to feel that Marc is cashing in in some way. I imagine if a US retailer had done the deal the price would be lower and everyone would be happy. It just seems like Marc is getting raked over the coals because he's geographically inconvenient to many fans!

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:10 am

And to address this; I think Richard is making a valid point.

No. He's crossed the line.

Making replica gear in my opinion is a privilege, not a right.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion. A privilege is a right that can be taken away and unless I missed something, nobody here has the right or the ability to take away Marc's ability to sell this stuff. If he sells them, he can sell them for the price he demands. If you don't like that price, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY FROM HIM.

Personally, Marc's prices are a bit out of my league, so I go to other retailers, but that doesn't mean I feel the need to attack him for charging what he does.

I think what Richard was getting at was that this deal doesn't sound right for the end result....Marc feels singled out because people keep asking the same questions over and over again

No, he feels singled out because Richard said, and I quote "Marc can keep his $700 custom shoes and Marc's Deluxe hat versus Steve's hat." That IS singling him out, no two ways about it. If he'd said "The Alden store can keep their $700 custom shoes," that would be one thing, but by saying Marc, he's blaming Marc, especially since he's brought the hats made by Marc into the discussion. If Richard had been getting at the idea that the deal doesn't seem right for the end result, he shouldn't have brought Marc into this. As it is, I think he should get a warning from the mods for making a personal attack.

it seems that Marc is choosing not to answer them for whatever reason

Have you been listening? He told us REPEATEDLY that Alden doesn't care about making more money, they're happy with the market they have. When you factor in the weak US dollar, Marc's explanation makes absolute sense. They're doing us a favor by making these boots, and yet when Marc brings this deal to the table, he gets attacked for it. If you don't want to buy these boots, then DON'T BUY THEM, but that's no reason to lay into one of COW's most upstanding vendors because of that. :junior: -M

michaeljcr · Post by **michaeljcr** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:11 am

Maybe you missed my previous post.

Hi crazylegsmurphy! I think we've been typing at almost the same time, as your post went on just before I'd finished typing mine!

The perils of forum posting...

Regards

M.

Tron7960 · Post by **Tron7960** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:27 am

crazylegsmurphy wrote:
I don't see where Marc DIDN'T use class in this response.
I think what I meant is it's not the best thing in my opinion to respond to this kind of thing on the forum. Use PM's and sort it out there...

What Richard is saying, isn't really the point.

I don't know the background on this, but as Marc is a member of this forum and not just a "vendor", I think that he has a right to "publicly" defend himself, or at least raise his concerns about statements directed at him. If I was to only read the statements by Richard without a response from Marc, I might assume there was some validity to them. I believe Marc has the option of dealing with this matter through PM's or moderators, but I support his decision to address it in the same arena that Richard chose, that is the Forum.
I believe Marc is more than capable of doing so civilly, and with "class".

Tron

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:44 am

I'd agree with the sentiment, but to have someone else feel the need to lecture me on hanging on to reality is essentially insulting, especially when it concerns what I spend my money on and why.

Fair enough, but you're not the only one on this forum. We're all adults here, but that doesn't mean everyone makes the best choices. We're not here to babysit, but we're a community...and that community needs to look out for each other for this to continue being fun for all. Driving up prices because we can, doesn't help everyone.

I guess the problem here is that, as I mentioned above, people don't seem to accept the fact that Alden's have set the price (for whatever reason) and seem to feel that Marc is cashing in in some way. I imagine if a US retailer had done the deal the price would be lower and everyone would be happy. It just seems like Marc is getting raked over the coals because he's geographically inconvenient to many fans!

I'm trying to explain to you, that there IS a few people that have been looking into this and you CAN get the boots for WAY less than this cost. Even with exchange, the boots are not the same price.

As well, the people that have been contacting me have been telling me that as they talk to the Alden people, they're getting a different story. Alden wants new customers, they like the Indy crowd and they would never turn away anyone. Something else is going on here.

Again, I respect the sentiment, but it's hugely unrealistic to expect items marketed and advertised as high end goods to be affordable to everyone or, perhaps, even most people. There are cheaper alternatives, the AB Dlx stuff being offered are high end goods that cost more to produce.

Sure...then show me where these boots are so much more high end than the regular boots.

Have you been listening? He told us REPEATEDLY that Alden doesn't care about making more money, they're happy with the market they have. When you factor in the weak US dollar, Marc's explanation makes absolute sense. They're doing us a favor by making these boots, and yet when Marc brings this deal to the table, he gets attacked for it. If you don't want to buy these boots, then DON'T BUY THEM, but that's no reason to lay into one of COW's most upstanding vendors because of that.

This is not the complete truth. You're accepting that as truth so you can defend this point and I continually tell you that it's not. Alden has said in direct response to this post, that they DO want more customers and are always looking to expand.

The exchange is another bad reason as I have said before. I can get the exact same Aldens being offered here for $450 U.S. before shipping. You go to the currency converters online, and do the math please.

They are NOT doing us a favor, they are trying to make money...that is what business' do. They're not doing anyone a favor here because they're in the business of hugs and handshakes. Alden put up a price and from my point of view Marc accepted it without thinking of the whole, and now, there are so many conflicting stories and reasons why the price are what they are (and still no actual specs on the boot), that it just looks 100% shady.

You want to know the exact reason why I am saying all this, I'll tell you. The reason is that I once got taken pretty bad. I don't talk about it because it' embarrassing for me, but the fact is that someone decided to put the price of something I wanted to badly regarding Indy Gear that I spent almost $500 on a piece of junk.

This deal sounds shady to me....maybe it's legit, but you tell me, where in any of these posts this product was explained in every detail. The deal is not transparent on almost every angle and there are people who I feel are getting completely screwed over because of it.

I will be the first to admit if I am wrong. I don't want Marc to have to deal with people like me, but please, someone explain to me what is going on....and by that someone, I mean Marc. Please tell us why these boots are priced at what they are.

Break it down for me. Make me understand why these aren't just any old Alden boots. Convince me that the quality and differences are worth the cost. Show me photos, let me see something that indicates that this isn't some scheme for Alden and Marc to put a few bucks in their pockets at the expense of the Indy fan.

That is all I am asking......I don't give a flying cheese doodle from South Texas about exchange, I am smart enough to figure that out on my own. I get exchange...Canada used to have a pretty crappy dollar and my Indy Bags cost me $350.00 after exchange...

And don't tell me "because Alden said so" The ONLY reason I haven't gotten on the phone myself and talked to the president of that company asking for a reason for the difference is out of respect to Marc. Others, I am sorry to say have, and the story that they're getting are not the same as the one we're being told here.

I don't know the background on this, but as Marc is a member of this forum and not just a "vendor", I think that he has a right to "publicly" defend himself, or at least raise his concerns about statements directed at him. If I was to only read the statements by Richard without a response from Marc, I might assume there was some validity to them. I believe Marc has the option of dealing with this matter through PM's or moderators, but I support his decision to address it in the same arena that Richard chose, that is the Forum.
I believe Marc is more than capable of doing so civilly, and with "class".

I am also a member of this forum and I get warning letters when I try to defend myself. Regardless, he has the right to do whatever he likes, but from my point of view, when someone calls you out, and you respond, it usually means there IS some validity. It's called damage control.

If Marc wanted to defend himself, then he should have contacted Admin and said that someone was attacking him specifically and let Admin deal with it. The forums are not the place in my opinion to have an all out brawl about some personal attack.

And before any of you think I am attacking Marc...well, if you think that, I really can't help you. I'm not attacking Marc, I'm asking a question about the boots....once he explains that to me, I'll post how I was wrong, and shut my trap.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:44 am

An 'in and out' question, if I may.

How much are you folks in Europe paying for a standard pair of 405's? I have no idea what the exchange rate or customs cost is, so this is an honest question.

What are you having to shell out to order a pair of standard run of the mill new 405's?

Regards! Michaelson

Thank you for a good question Mark, that I'll be glad to answer.

I haven't seen the 405's available at all here in Germany. However I have visited several places selling shoes from Alden. Both cordovan and calfskin. From what I recall the prices I've seen in shops (plural) throughout Germany start at 599 Euro and the highest price I can remember is 980 Euro (or round about). Translated into U.S.$ that is between 935$ and 1530$.

Regards,

Marc

Post by **Holt** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:46 am

jeg synes du gjør det utrolig bra!stå på!

bests
Holt

sneakertinker · Post by **sneakertinker** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:49 am

Mulceber wrote:
And to address this; I think Richard is making a valid point.
No. He's crossed the line.

Making replica gear in my opinion is a privilege, not a right.
How on earth do you come to that conclusion. A privilege is a right that can be taken away and unless I missed something, nobody here has the right or the ability to take away Marc's ability to sell this stuff. If he sells them, he can sell them for the price he demands. If you don't like that price, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY FROM HIM.

Personally, Marc's prices are a bit out of my league, so I go to other retailers, but that doesn't mean I feel the need to attack him for charging what he does.

I think what Richard was getting at was that this deal doesn't sound right for the end result....Marc feels singled out because people keep asking the same questions over and over again
No, he feels singled out because Richard said, and I quote "Marc can keep his $700 custom shoes and Marc's Deluxe hat versus Steve's hat." That IS singling him out, no two ways about it. If he'd said "The Alden store can keep their $700 custom shoes," that would be one thing, but by saying Marc, he's blaming Marc, especially since he's brought the hats made by Marc into the discussion. If Richard had been getting at the idea that the deal doesn't seem right for the end result, he shouldn't have brought Marc into this. As it is, I think he should get a warning from the mods for making a personal attack.

it seems that Marc is choosing not to answer them for whatever reason
Have you been listening? He told us REPEATEDLY that Alden doesn't care about making more money, they're happy with the market they have. When you factor in the weak US dollar, Marc's explanation makes absolute sense. They're doing us a favor by making these boots, and yet when Marc brings this deal to the table, he gets attacked for it. If you don't want to buy these boots, then DON'T BUY THEM, but that's no reason to lay into one of COW's most upstanding vendors because of that. :junior: -M

I agree 100% with you michaeljcr...

I think that it's absurd that people ridicule Marc for selling a pair of 405's with Raiders specs from 1975 and not setting the price point at what they think it should be.

Bottom line it's a custom shoe and Alden is going to charge a higher price to construct them. Alden does custom order's through their stores all the time at, guess what, a higher price. Leather Soul Hawaii has been doing various incarnations of the boot since 2005 at a higher price. The price of 405's has gone up over the years and will continue to do so. If you think that's absurd then simply DON'T BUY THE SHOES. The custom nature of the shoes Marc is selling coupled with the weak $ is what sets the price so high. NOT MARC.

If you think this boot is just a general 405 with a different color I would encourage you to contact Marc and get the specifics of the boot he is selling. Numerous people on this board have been wearing the 405 for a great many years and have seen subtle changes on the boot itself...I.E. Color, less leather used on heel strip, smaller speed lace hooks, just general changes. The boot Marc is selling is 100% accurate to the boot that was being sold at the time of Raiders...They are specific all the way down to the lining used on the boots at the time...Of course Alden is going to charge more...They have to spend more money to source the material needed for the boot and have to vary from their general method of construction to conscruct them in a different way...The leather is even being treated differently than they do on the current 405's

Marc went out of his way to get into contact with a representative of Alden to obtain the exact specifications from their archive and persuaded them to re-produce the boot for himself and his customers. Do a search for "Alden" on this forum and take a look at the results...There are numerous threads from over the years with people talking about, and asking questions on how they can make their 405's more screen accurate...We now have that thanks to Marc and all the sudden he is the bad guy? Also where does any person on a message board get off by telling somebody else how they should spend their money? Sorry had to vent but these attacks on Marc are out of line.

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:52 am

If you think this boot is just a general 405 with a different color I would encourage you to contact Marc and get the specifics of the boot he is selling.

Seriously....if this were possible, don't you think he would have responded to the 50000 million posts asking that exact question on here? Is is some kind of trade secret?

Bottom line it's a custom shoe and Alden is going to charge a higher price to construct them. Alden does custom order's through their stores all the time at, guess what, a higher price.

Yup, turns out it's about $50 - $150 U.S more....lets see....$350+$150=.......carry the one.....fraction....cosign.....$700?

michaeljcr · Post by **michaeljcr** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:10 am

I am telling you, they DO offer the original boot, and for WAY less than $700! And the reason I am "prosecuting" him as you call it, is for the same reason I just said 5 seconds before. There has been no reason given why the price is what it is, other than someone saying that Alden said so.

In Europe or North America? I'm not being argumentative for the fun of it, I think this is a key point in the pricing that needs clarifying. If someone can offer it cheaper in the USA or Canada that's great, but it's only really relevant to Marc's price if it's another European retailer. Marc is in Germany, different economic rules apply and ignoring that, which seems to be what has happened on this thread, is just unfair and unrealistic. Also, it was 'persecuting', not 'prosecuting')

No, I think he was saying, or at least I am, that there should be reasonable limits for the price gear is set at, not only because it's the right thing to do, but also because like Ebay, there are some people who, for whatever reasons will buy anything put in front of them for any price and this drives up the cost for the responsible buyers.

I think this is a point that really speaks to the excellent community spirit that Indy fans, COW members in particular, have towards each other and the hobby. I just don't think it's a realistic thing to advocate as it would certainly limit, in some cases, what was available in the form of materials and quality (although I accept that 'quality' is a subjective term past a certain standard of functionality and manufacturing cost and materials). It also would affect the ability of people to make an actual living out of their business, rather than it being just a hobby, not to mention that you assume all or most of their business come from forum members. I also have to say, again not in an argumentative way, that anyone who tries to tell me how to spend my money, or what value I should put on an item has stepped over a line in a big way as they're essentially telling me their opinion in this matter is more important than my own. That is sheer arrogance and really, really impolite.

NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE BUY $700 BOOTS. If the price is that big of a deal, DON'T BUY THEM.
I think you're not seeing the whole picture. This is not about me being forced to buy anything or not...it's about someone making a deal that could potentially set the price so high that I will never have the option of ever getting them.

I will NEVER spend $700 on a pair of boots that are 100% the same as the other boots. If they're not the same, then what Alden is telling us is that the boots we were buying before aren't the best quality. I want to know why these boots are worth so much more....and not for the bad reasons given.

Again, this wasn't a quote from me as far as I remember, but is still interesting. As I said regarding price in an earlier post, welcome to the world of shopping in Europe. US goods sold retail cost more, so unless someone has proof that another German or continental European retailer can sell the same boots at a much cheaper price, then all this talk of a $700 boot is nonsense. It's not a question of worth, it's geography. What is so hard to understand about that? No one is saying it's a great price, it's just the cost of doing business in Europe. This need to find a more exotic reason for the cost is just counter productive as, if a US fan or retailer had thought of it first we wouldn't be having all this finger pointing and discussion. The reality of it is Marc was the only one who bothered to ask the question so they're being sold from Germany.

It's a 450 Euro boot, for the European market, as far as Alden's will be concerned, not a $700 boot for the North American market. Those people in North America who can't get to grips with the difference in price that this results in should look to the original post I replied to and take Richard's last comment to heart, is not perhaps not as he intended, and 'Live with it'.

sneakertinker · Post by **sneakertinker** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:12 am

crazylegsmurphy wrote:
If you think this boot is just a general 405 with a different color I would encourage you to contact Marc and get the specifics of the boot he is selling.
Seriously....if this were possible, don't you think he would have responded to the 50000 million posts asking that exact question on here? Is is some kind of trade secret?

Bottom line it's a custom shoe and Alden is going to charge a higher price to construct them. Alden does custom order's through their stores all the time at, guess what, a higher price.
Yup, turns out it's about $50 - $150 U.S more....lets see....$350+$150=.......carry the one.....fraction....cosign.....$700?

Just like I said contact Marc and I'm sure that he will be more than happy to tell you what is different. He told me when I asked him and I'm sure that he has told other people as well. Maybe he would respond to that question in this post if he knew he wasn't going to be attacked no matter what.

If there is any other argument you have with anybody on this board (Myself included) I think you should follow your own advice and take it to PM.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:20 am

I'm not sure if I should apologise for ever contacting Alden here or what now... As of now, I really regret that I ever did

I just wanted a single pair for myself and perhaps some for my buddy Kim who always wanted a pair of authentic / SA Aldens for private use as well.

I contacted Alden in January and asked if that would be possible. Got the reply that they'd have to make a special run and that I'd have to take a dozen min. However first of all I would need to be accepted as a retailer. Drove to Düsseldorf with my wife to meet with John, paid for hotel, food and gas on my own dime. Met with John who accepted me as a retailer and listened to a two hour monologue of me wanting a different thread on the welt, a different color on the welt, a different color a different liner and a few other details that obviously no-one but me cares about. He wrote everything down and told me the price to charge. 450Euro. I converted that into Dollars immediately and told him that I could sell MUCH more if the price wouldn't be so steep (at that time I didn't even know my cost price, but I was almost begging him to let me sell them for less). Answer: no (due to Alden not wanting to grow etc. that's what *I* was told). So I could walk away with empty hands or sell them for the price I was given. I chose the second option. Got back home. Posted what I had experienced and have been attacked ever since. All I wanted was a pair of Raiders accurate boots. If I could have gotton them elsewhere - believe me - I would. Of course, if the Dollar would be 1.2 Euros as it used to, I'd be the hero of the day for "only" charging 375$ for the same boots. However right now you think that I'm a greedy ##### who's only seeing his profit, but nothing could be further from the truth. I work very hard every day to keep my turnaround times for hats below a year and yet I cannot even make a living from this. Of course this is not your problem but mine. However I'm comming to the point where I'm not sure if it's worth hardly seeing my wife for the sake of earning 100-200bucks more a month. I've have the hat I wanted when I started this hobby 18 years ago. And asside from the pants I've got pretty much all the stuff together. Perhaps I should just let it go and call it all a day...

Regards,

Marc

sneakertinker · Post by **sneakertinker** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:25 am

Marc and AB is appreciated over here...Who is with me?

Tron7960 · Post by **Tron7960** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:31 am

I don't have to tell you to correct me if I'm wrong Crazylegs, but are you telling us that the exact same boots Marc is offering are available elsewhere and for considerably less? If I'm understanding your statements, you have been contacted by individuals who claim to have spoken to some authority at Aldens and told that the information given out by Marc is in fact not true?
As someone who ordered a pair of these and is a member of the COW community, I would appreciate you providing specific details and contact information on the availability and price of the "original" raiders 405's.
I'm sure Marc would also like this information as he will likely have stiff competition from this less expensive competitor.

Thanks

Tron

Tron7960 · Post by **Tron7960** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:38 am

sneakertinker wrote:Marc and AB is appreciated over here...Who is with me?

I am.

He's been first class with me and I have nothing but respect for his accomplishments.

I was one of the first to question what would make these boots special. Marc answered this question a long time ago. I guess my problem is he gave me the answer I wanted.

I can't wait for my 8D's

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:45 am

sneakertinker wrote:Marc and AB is appreciated over here...Who is with me?

No offence, but stick it....we all appreciate Marc, there isn't a need to turn this into a pep rally.

I'm not sure if I should apologise for ever contacting Alden here or what now... As of now, I really regret that I ever did Crying or Very sad I just wanted a single pair for myself and perhaps some for my buddy Kim who always wanted a pair of authentic / SA Aldens for private use as well.

Marc, thank you for the story. All I am saying is that if you want to convince us that the value of the boot is worth what you're offering it for, then just tell us what is different with the boot.

We know exchange *****, we know you just wanted a boot for yourself....but how I am reading it is that you wanted a boot for yourself, and Alden told you sure, but it's gonna cost you. So you agreed to a deal, then came on here and hoped the good people of COW would cover your butt, all the while passing it off as a "deal of the century".

I have been in this position myself. I once was in Make-up artistry school and I ordered something from the states. Problem was, they made me order like 5 gallons of the stuff and it cost me almost $3000. I worked my ### off to sell what I could to the other students because I wanted it to make my career better.....I got stuck with the bill in the end, so I get it.

I have said before, I think you should have walked. You should have come here and used your influence to get the ball rolling on a better deal to bring to them. Alden set a high price because from where I am sitting you basically put yourself as putty in his hands. You showed your card in business and he realized he could throw some random number out there and you, and some others would go for it.

Now, the deal is the standard and to make a new deal will be hard for the rest of us. If I were to approach the company with this deal, they would charge me $700 US...because it's on the books someone will pay it.

Now, with that said....the deal is done...so do what you should be doing.....sell it.

You were lucky in that you were able to get some people on board based on your reputation alone, but the reason I am going on and on about this is that it's not a good standard for this community to follow. Who's to say the next guy won't get a "deal" on Indy clover lighters and charger $200 per lighter.....and doing so based on his rep alone.

Make a post, outline the boot exactly. Outline the cost, the differences, the reason, everything. Sell the product...not because you have to, but because you should, for the sake of the community. Keep things in this community transparent and real. Don't use your reputation to sell things regardless of the cost.

If you're wondering why you're being "attacked" it's because (and this is my opinion only), you're offering a deal that isn't coming across to everyone as a deal. It's insulting to a lot of people to go "above our heads" and make such a deal with a company using your pull. You have stated outright that you wanted a pair for you, and your friend and Alden wouldn't do it for you, so you had to bring in others and this is what people were picking up on.

I think people felt they were being taken advantage of. That someone was dealing with the company and making it impossible to ever get a decent deal from that point.

I want things to work out for you Marc. You're having awesome success in your life right now with things relating to Indy, and I don't want to see that go badly. I don't have anything against you personally so know that this isn't a personal thing for me. If you were here in North America, I would order a hat from you in a second and stand by it based on who you are alone.

Now, to add one final thing. I don't think the "Oh whoa is me" is needed. You just got the biggest chance in the world for some of these people, so I don't think it's the time to be complaining about it. Everyone wants you to see your wife and have a life....but you make the choice to do what you do, or you get out, but I don't think it's cool to complain about where you are.

sneakertinker · Post by **sneakertinker** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:46 am

Tron7960 wrote:
sneakertinker wrote:Marc and AB is appreciated over here...Who is with me?
I am.

He's been first class with me and I have nothing but respect for his accomplishments.

I was one of the first to question what would make these boots special. Marc answered this question a long time ago. I guess my problem is he gave me the answer I wanted.

I can't wait for my 8D's

Ditto on that Tron...I can't wait for my 11E's

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:51 am

I don't have to tell you to correct me if I'm wrong Crazylegs, but are you telling us that the exact same boots Marc is offering are available elsewhere and for considerably less? If I'm understanding your statements, you have been contacted by individuals who claim to have spoken to some authority at Aldens and told that the information given out by Marc is in fact not true?
As someone who ordered a pair of these and is a member of the COW community, I would appreciate you providing specific details and contact information on the availability and price of the "original" raiders 405's.
I'm sure Marc would also like this information as he will likely have stiff competition from this less expensive competitor.

Thanks

Tron

How do they say it..."I'm sorry, but I can't reveal my sources."

From the contact I have had (through this post others have contacted me and let me know there are alternatives), it seems that from the limited information Marc has provided in regards to the boot specs, that if one were to look to alternate channels, these same boots can be acquired for quite a bit less.

This is what I was told by two different people, in two different places. My understanding is that one of those people is in direct contact with the president of Alden, and is in the process of figuring out what kind of deal can be made for all. If it turns out it's the same deal, he'll walk. There is also a retailer that I have been put in contact with that will put in orders for this exact boot (long since asked for by others) for no more than $150 customization fee.

sneakertinker · Post by **sneakertinker** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:03 am

crazylegsmurphy wrote:
sneakertinker wrote:Marc and AB is appreciated over here...Who is with me?
No offence, but stick it....we all appreciate Marc, there isn't a need to turn this into a pep rally.

I'm not sure if I should apologise for ever contacting Alden here or what now... As of now, I really regret that I ever did Crying or Very sad I just wanted a single pair for myself and perhaps some for my buddy Kim who always wanted a pair of authentic / SA Aldens for private use as well.
Marc, thank you for the story. All I am saying is that if you want to convince us that the value of the boot is worth what you're offering it for, then just tell us what is different with the boot.

We know exchange *****, we know you just wanted a boot for yourself....but how I am reading it is that you wanted a boot for yourself, and Alden told you sure, but it's gonna cost you. So you agreed to a deal, then came on here and hoped the good people of COW would cover your butt, all the while passing it off as a "deal of the century".

I have been in this position myself. I once was in Make-up artistry school and I ordered something from the states. Problem was, they made me order like 5 gallons of the stuff and it cost me almost $3000. I worked my ### off to sell what I could to the other students because I wanted it to make my career better.....I got stuck with the bill in the end, so I get it.

I have said before, I think you should have walked. You should have come here and used your influence to get the ball rolling on a better deal to bring to them. Alden set a high price because from where I am sitting you basically put yourself as putty in his hands. You showed your card in business and he realized he could throw some random number out there and you, and some others would go for it.

Now, the deal is the standard and to make a new deal will be hard for the rest of us. If I were to approach the company with this deal, they would charge me $700 US...because it's on the books someone will pay it.

Now, with that said....the deal is done...so do what you should be doing.....sell it.

You were lucky in that you were able to get some people on board based on your reputation alone, but the reason I am going on and on about this is that it's not a good standard for this community to follow. Who's to say the next guy won't get a "deal" on Indy clover lighters and charger $200 per lighter.....and doing so based on his rep alone.

Make a post, outline the boot exactly. Outline the cost, the differences, the reason, everything. Sell the product...not because you have to, but because you should, for the sake of the community. Keep things in this community transparent and real. Don't use your reputation to sell things regardless of the cost.

If you're wondering why you're being "attacked" it's because (and this is my opinion only), you're offering a deal that isn't coming across to everyone as a deal. It's insulting to a lot of people to go "above our heads" and make such a deal with a company using your pull. You have stated outright that you wanted a pair for you, and your friend and Alden wouldn't do it for you, so you had to bring in others and this is what people were picking up on.

I think people felt they were being taken advantage of. That someone was dealing with the company and making it impossible to ever get a decent deal from that point.

I want things to work out for you Marc. You're having awesome success in your life right now with things relating to Indy, and I don't want to see that go badly. I don't have anything against you personally so know that this isn't a personal thing for me. If you were here in North America, I would order a hat from you in a second and stand by it based on who you are alone.

Now, to add one final thing. I don't think the "Oh whoa is me" is needed. You just got the biggest chance in the world for some of these people, so I don't think it's the time to be complaining about it. Everyone wants you to see your wife and have a life....but you make the choice to do what you do, or you get out, but I don't think it's cool to complain about where you are.

"No offence, but stick it" If that's not a personal attatck I don't know what is. I did take offense to that.

michaeljcr · Post by **michaeljcr** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:04 am

Marc wrote:
A question 'in and out' question, if I may.

How much are you folks in Europe paying for a standard pair of 405's? I have no idea what the exchange rate or customs cost is, so this is an honest question.

What are you having to shell out to order a pair of standard run of the mill new 405's?

Regards! Michaelson
Thank you for a good question Mark, that I'll be glad to answer.

I haven't seen the 405's available at all here in Germany. However I have visited several places selling shoes from Alden. Both cordovan and calfskin. From what I recall the prices I've seen in shops (plural) throughout Germany start at 599 Euro and the highest price I can remember is 980 Euro (or round about). Translated into U.S.$ that is between 935$ and 1530$.

Regards,

Marc

I can't find anywhere in the UK selling them, or any other Alden's shoes for that matter.

RichardSK · Post by **RichardSK** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:11 am

Geez. I can't believe that I stirred up that much trouble before going to bed last night.
A. I'm not attacking Marc (personally or professionally)
B. If you have the money to spend without making your children go hungry, do it.
C. I do believe that an extremely high percentage of 405's are purchased by Indy fans and Indy fans alone (the majority of which are members of this site. How may members are there? 2,327.)
D. Based on the assumption put forth in C., I fail to understand why Aldens just doesn't make them in the right color.
E. In response to michaeljcr, my use of "we" is due to my, our, multiple personality disorder. I would never presume to speek for you Mike.

michaeljcr · Post by **michaeljcr** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:14 am

RichardSK wrote: E. In response to michaeljcr, my use of "we" is due to my, our, multiple personality disorder. I would never presume to speek for you Mike.

High Regards!

M.

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:16 am

"No offence, but stick it" If that's not a personal attatck I don't know what is. I did take offense to that.

I'm sorry, but there is a conversation going on here and I don't think we need to turn it into a "YA ME TOO!" thing. Marc is an adult, he can handle himself. He knows people appreciate him, so there is no need to make a "ode to Marc" thread....if you want to make one, go make a new one in Lao Che's section.

sneakertinker · Post by **sneakertinker** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:24 am

crazylegsmurphy wrote:
"No offence, but stick it" If that's not a personal attatck I don't know what is. I did take offense to that.
I'm sorry, but there is a conversation going on here and I don't think we need to turn it into a "YA ME TOO!" thing. Marc is an adult, he can handle himself. He knows people appreciate him, so there is no need to make a "ode to Marc" thread....if you want to make one, go make a new one in Lao Che's section.

Yet another personal attatck...

Post by **COW Admin** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:38 am

This stops now. It doesn't matter now which member(s) continue this thread off topic, or who said what... Anymore can and will result in vacations. The staff are watching this thread closely. Don't make us lock this thread down.

Again, this ends now.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:44 am

Marc wrote:
A question 'in and out' question, if I may.

How much are you folks in Europe paying for a standard pair of 405's? I have no idea what the exchange rate or customs cost is, so this is an honest question.

What are you having to shell out to order a pair of standard run of the mill new 405's?

Regards! Michaelson
Thank you for a good question Mark, that I'll be glad to answer.

I haven't seen the 405's available at all here in Germany. However I have visited several places selling shoes from Alden. Both cordovan and calfskin. From what I recall the prices I've seen in shops (plural) throughout Germany start at 599 Euro and the highest price I can remember is 980 Euro (or round about). Translated into U.S.$ that is between 935$ and 1530$.

Regards,

Marc

So, if I'm reading this correctly, there ARE no Alden dealers in Europe (besides yourself), and you're currently ordering them from dealers in the U. S. to ship to you overseas for between $935 and $1530 U. S. D., am I correct?

Regards! Michaelson

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:53 am

Who, besides Indy fans, actually buy these shoes? Uh, no one? So, what is up with Aldens that they don't make the 405's in the correct color?

It appears you are underestimating Aldens, have no idea about the way they do business or the clientele they cater to. They area HIGH end business with high roller clients who don't care about spending $500 on a pair of shoes. They could care less about what us Indyfans want. Most Indyfans (no offense to anyone at all) have to save up to get a pair of Aldens. See where I'm coming from? It's pure business. They have no need for us Indyfans. Sure, we buy alot of 405's but you are naive if you seriously think we're the only ones buying them. They put out a product and if you like it, you buy it. It seems somet people around here would rather complain about that then just shake your head and find another alternative.

(Who cares about the SA lining?) Marc can keep his $700 custom shoes (and the Hawaii store's $650 shoe) and Marc's Deluxe hat versus Steve's hat.

What you need to understand is that just because you don't care about it doesn't mean there aren't people who do and are willing to pay for it. As you said, "Live with it".

We want the truest item that we can get, but there is a limit.

Really? Thanks for speaking for the rest of us. Maybe there is a limit for you, which is fine, but know that some others don't have limits.

Take a step back, look at what is available, choose wisely

I did. I decided to buy Marcs Aldens.

realize that we aren't Indiana Jones and it isn't 1981 (or 1936).

Am I supposed to take this seriously? I think maybe you're taking this all too seriously.

Whether everyday clothing, or Halloween costume, or prom attire, take all of this with a grain of salt and some sensibility.

I do. It's not anyone elses problem that you can't come to grips that there are people out there who like the most SA stuff we can find and have the money to pay for it. If you think it's crazy or can't afford it, then there is nothing at all wrong with that. Just leave the rest of us alone with it.

No one will will have and look, ever, like Harrison Ford in Raiders except for Harrison Ford 27 years ago. Live with it.

I do, everyday. This doesn't stop me from persuing my hobby. You must take everyone else a fool.

The reason I am posting is because I have been asking for SOME justification of this price. I am asking why the boots are doubled in price.

I thought this has already been answered. Aldens said that if they're going to do a small run of boots then this is what the cost to sell them will be. If you do not sell them at this price then there is no deal. What exactly is it you refuse to understand? Marc is not setting the price, ALDENS IS!

WHY this deal was made that in my opinion is taking advantage of the people of this forum

You obviously don't have any idea of what kind of guy Marc is. His very first concern is always that of pleasing the fans with the highest quality product. Every time I've ever spoken to him about any project, this is his primary concern. Anyone here knows I'm no arse-kisser, but I have to say that your statements about Marc are very offensinve to me. I know you don't care, but they are. Marc is far from taking advantage of anyone. He's offering a deal as a middle-man through Aldens. They set the price point, not Marc. If you don't like it, move on to another thread.

Crazylegs,
Please take the time to answer for the rest of us if you are seriously considering purchasing a pair of the Aldens that Marc is offering?

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:56 am

Well crazylegs, you win, in as much as I'm not going to waste an more of my time asking you to clarify your posts or read rude and unfriendly posts like these last ones. You obviously don't know or can't prove if the boots would be available in Europe at a cheaper price and it's clear you're either unwilling or unable to admit that there's no conspiracy about it. You don't respect other people's point of view and selectively answer questions or respond only to further your own, not help clarify things. Your position on what Marc should or should not have done is really unimportant in the real world, as is my own.

You're right. I just consider jutting into a conversation people are having with pointless off topic posts like, "Who's with me!" just as rude. It was a poor attempt at directing the conversation and didn't need to be there. I may have come off as rude, or unfriendly, but I am trying to reply to what is going on here and can't really find the time to sugar coat my every response.

To address your other point. I am trying to address as many points as I can considering the way they're being responded too. Not only is it very hard to respond to stuff when some people don't understand that you don't have to quote an entire post to get the point, but it's pretty hard when I have to juggle thing in between work and 5 or so people replying to me.

I told you, I can't tell you who the people are right now. It is not my information to share, nor do I think it would be right to clog up this thread with random information that I have gotten third party. The people who are working on their own deals will probably come out in their own time.

And no, I don't think my position is unimportant, in fact I think it's very important.

If you want to ask me specific questions then feel free to do so, just make sure it's related to this thread and I'll do my best to answer them. I will say before that however that I really don't know what answers you're looking for from me, I have written what I can almost 5 times here, the only questions that need answering are what are the specs on these boots.

They could care less about what us Indyfans want. Most Indyfans

Again, this appears to be wrong

Please take the time to answer for the rest of us if you are seriously considering purchasing a pair of the Aldens that Marc is offering?

Please go back and read all the posts in this thread as I have stated that if I was actually being told what I was getting for my $700 then I might consider it. I also said I found alternate sources for much less, but am still posting here in the hopes that perhaps in the future a deal can be worked out for all.

michaeljcr · Post by **michaeljcr** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am

Michaelson wrote:
Marc wrote:
A question 'in and out' question, if I may.

How much are you folks in Europe paying for a standard pair of 405's? I have no idea what the exchange rate or customs cost is, so this is an honest question.

What are you having to shell out to order a pair of standard run of the mill new 405's?

Regards! Michaelson
Thank you for a good question Mark, that I'll be glad to answer.

I haven't seen the 405's available at all here in Germany. However I have visited several places selling shoes from Alden. Both cordovan and calfskin. From what I recall the prices I've seen in shops (plural) throughout Germany start at 599 Euro and the highest price I can remember is 980 Euro (or round about). Translated into U.S.$ that is between 935$ and 1530$.

Regards,

Marc
So, if I'm reading this correctly, there ARE no Alden dealers in Europe (besides yourself), and you're currently ordering them from dealers in the U. S. to ship to you overseas for between $935 and $1530 U. S. D., am I correct?

Regards! Michaelson

I've just checked the Alden's website and there seem to be quite a few official German stockists, but I've tried the one UK stockist they list before and not had any joy finding Alden's on their website. I might do a bit of internet geeking later today and see if I can find a European stockist with a website.

michaeljcr · Post by **michaeljcr** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:01 pm

crazylegsmurphy wrote:
Well crazylegs, you win, in as much as I'm not going to waste an more of my time asking you to clarify your posts or read rude and unfriendly posts like these last ones. You obviously don't know or can't prove if the boots would be available in Europe at a cheaper price and it's clear you're either unwilling or unable to admit that there's no conspiracy about it. You don't respect other people's point of view and selectively answer questions or respond only to further your own, not help clarify things. Your position on what Marc should or should not have done is really unimportant in the real world, as is my own.
You're right. I just consider jutting into a conversation people are having with pointless off topic posts like, "Who's with me!" just as rude. It was a poor attempt at directing the conversation and didn't need to be there. I may have come off as rude, or unfriendly, but I am trying to reply to what is going on here and can't really find the time to sugar coat my every response.

To address your other point. I am trying to address as many points as I can considering the way they're being responded too. Not only is it very hard to respond to stuff when some people don't understand that you don't have to quote an entire post to get the point, but it's pretty hard when I have to juggle thing in between work and 5 or so people replying to me.

I told you, I can't tell you who the people are right now. It is not my information to share, nor do I think it would be right to clog up this thread with random information that I have gotten third party. The people who are working on their own deals will probably come out in their own time.

And no, I don't think my position is unimportant, in fact I think it's very important.

If you want to ask me specific questions then feel free to do so, just make sure it's related to this thread and I'll do my best to answer them. I will say before that however that I really don't know what answers you're looking for from me, I have written what I can almost 5 times here, the only questions that need answering are what are the specs on these boots.

They could care less about what us Indyfans want. Most Indyfans
Again, this appears to be wrong

Hi crazylegs, I deleted my earlier post after the mods gave us the warning, but needless to say they're quite right that we should get it back on topic. No hard feelings, just a bit of friendly banter on my part.

Cheers!

M.

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:04 pm

Hi crazylegs, I deleted my earlier post after the mods gave us the warning, but needless to say they're quite right that we should get it back on topic. No hard feelings, just a bit of friendly banter on my part.

Cheers!

M.

I have no hard feelings, I consider this a conversation. This is good...it's fun, it gets people involved, it breaks up the, "Just ordered a Wested" threads and gives us all a chance to voice opinions on slightly heated topics. It's all good.

I just hope the mods don't decide to lock it down and hand out vacations because we're talking more heated than normal. I think if everyone who has something to say about it says it, and the people with not much to say sit back and observe for now, it'll all be good.

Oh...and please PLEASE guys...if you're going to quote something, take the time to break down the quote. It gets super hard to read when you quote 40 other quotes, or break up each quote into every little sentence. I can go back and re-read what was originally posted if I'm lost, but it fills up the page pretty bad just block quoting everything.

sneakertinker · Post by **sneakertinker** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:18 pm

You're right. I just consider jutting into a conversation people are having with pointless off topic posts like, "Who's with me!" just as rude. It was a poor attempt at directing the conversation and didn't need to be there. I may have come off as rude, or unfriendly, but I am trying to reply to what is going on here and can't really find the time to sugar coat my every response.

Another personal attack by Crazylegs...Looks like I struck a nerve...I even broke this one down for you this time as you requested. Feel free to email me any time you wish Crazylegs.

Until then my best regards...

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:59 pm

This thread makes me wonder whether I should sell my pants for $500.

Kidding!!

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:12 pm

I TRULY(!!!) feel for you guys in the US. For you it HAS to look plain weird why a pair of boots (even a pair of special made boots) all of sudden costs twice the price for having it send to Europe and back again. The 30$ for shiping them here and the 75$ for getting them back are really just a small part. Also, the 19% import rip off taxes or yet another 20% personal taxes are only a small part again. As always, one could also mention the weak Dollar, that is responsible for round about 35% of the price - though a bigger part, it's still not 50%. I understand all this very well. I've been suffering from the weak Euro for years and now - being a vendor - I'm suffering from the weak Dollar :evil:

However, if you sum all these things together, you'll see WHY Alden ask their retailers to charge such price. Once the Dollar is back to it's old strength, there wouldn't be ANY profit margin left at all otherwise and Alden in interested in long term partnerships with their retailers. Does that make any change for you? - No. Of course not. While for the guys living this side of the big water, these boots are like 30% more than ordering a pair of standard 405s from the U.S., compared to what Alden boots can cost over here (please see above) this is not even outrageously expensive. It's as much as 4 pair of jeans (American trademark with a red tap

). That's what a good replica gun costs over here

Regards,

Marc

michaeljcr · Post by **michaeljcr** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:29 pm

Marc wrote:That's what a good replica gun costs over here

Regards,

Marc

Off topic I know, but over here in the UK we can't even have replica guns anymore!

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:47 pm

Ummmm.... two pair of Nike's is what I wanted to say

Regards,

Marc