WESTED 1998 VS. WESTED 2008!

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:56 pm

Hey all,

Finally, after 10 years, I ordered another Wested jacket. Yes, my first Wested was bought in 1998, before FS and before Todd's. I didn't know about U.S. Wings then and I wasn't interested in a Disney. This Wested has all the now-hated features. The low straps, the leather facings, the thick zipper, and it was way too big for me and wore like a sport coat too far below the belt.

Then the jacket wars started and many developments were brought to the surface as well as new vendors. I waited and waited - wanting a new jacket, but just couldn't bring myself to do it yet. I even got fitted at Flightsuits, but didn't purchase anything. Then came Chris King's discovery and the resurgence of the 1980s pattern. Finally, this year, it was the time.

And it's HERE! Fits like a dream! Finally, a Raiders jacket that fits me like it should!!! I'm stoked (figuratively)! Check out the comparison pictures below! On the LEFT is the 1998 Wested and on the RIGHT is the 2008 Wested! Above for color reference is a Cairo Beaver AB with 10' David Morgan and up in the far left corner is a Cabelas Safari shirt in stone color.

Peter, Gemma, you all NAILED this jacket! I hope you're reading this because I can't thank you enough! Fit like a glove right out of the bag with NO FUSS!

I didn't see any "x" stitching on the strap attachments, but frankly, I could care less about that detail. I'm not really an SA obsessee to that degree. This jacket is in the 1980s pattern in Authentic Raiders Lambskin without the leather facings inside and the smaller gauge zipper. Truly awesome work, Wested!

And check out the OBVIOUS differences 10 years has made to Wested jackets! Be sure to thank all of those who toiled for so long to get the jacket right!

LEFT - 1998 / RIGHT - 2008

RIGHT - 2008 / LEFT - 1998

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:06 pm

Congrats IndyFrench! And thanks for the pic.

:junior: Raider

ortiz344 · Post by **ortiz344** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:08 pm

wow that color sure is different, was it 'treated'?

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:46 pm

yes there is a big difference in those jacket's...
jacket 98 has bigger pockets, not so very sculpet pocket flaps...press studs.(LC style)and the color is darker..

I don't know if the jacket 98 is a dark brown lamb...it shure looks like it..

anyway..gongrats on your new ROTLA jacket...it shure looks great

high regards
Holt

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:57 pm

Actually, despite the photo being less than clear (sorry) there aren't any press studs on the jacket. It was a Raiders style and no, it wasn't treated\ with anything. That was THE COLOR back then and we didn't know any better.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:24 pm

Nope, we didn't, but we were sure happy to get them at the time!

Regards! Michaelson

S William · Post by **S William** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:59 pm

I've got a 99 Wested, and when my brother got his New Wested two years ago it was clear to see how much improved the Wested has become. I wear my Wested to work (it has gotten naturally distressed very well working in a wood shop). I now wear the Todd's standard the other times, but a new Wested may end up in my closet some day...

S William

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:03 am

I think the darker colour is considerably more screen accurate for all three films. The first one looks quite sharp.

SD

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:57 am

yesI know the color is ore screen accurate in all 3 films...but the authentic is the real color to go with if you want a spot on real Indy jacket..

and if you look closely you can actually see the authentic brown color on the jacket in all three films,in warious scenes...it's just the lighting that makes it darker

high regards
holt

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:24 am

indiana holt wrote:yesI know the color is ore screen accurate in all 3 films...but the authentic is the real color to go with if you want a spot on real Indy jacket..

and if you look closely you can actually see the authentic brown color on the jacket in all three films,in warious scenes...it's just the lighting that makes it darker

high regards
holt

I don't follow.

viper80134 · Post by **viper80134** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:36 am

Yes a truly great jacket from wested, a big improvment from what i can see in the pics. I just got mine last month and haven't stoped wearing it since. Like you said "Fit like a glove right out of the bag" thou mine is modeld after the last crusade style.

Vivli · Post by **Vivli** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:32 am

Congrats! That new jacket looks great!

Mind you, the old one still looks pretty awesome too. Regardless of screen accuracy, I love the colour of the older jacket. It looks suprisingly undistressed for ten years old!

The new jacket looks great too, and is obviously better, especially if it fits you properly. But I reckon, all things considered (considering this was before a lot of research into the jackets and competitive vendors and such), Wested still did a great job on the old one too!

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:05 am

St. Dumas wrote:
indiana holt wrote:yesI know the color is more screen accurate in all 3 films...but the authentic is the real color to go with if you want a spot on real Indy jacket..

and if you look closely you can actually see the authentic brown color on the jacket in all three films,in warious scenes...it's just the lighting that makes it darker

high regards
holt
I don't follow.

St. Dumas, indiana holt means that what you've seen (regarding colors) in the Matrix, doesn't mean the world is green, what you've seen in Black Hawk Down, doesn't mean Somalia is a bit off-color and what you've seen in Ocean's 13, doesn't mean Las Vegas has a greener grass and carpets are more red than in LA

.
This is a world of movies. A world of art and vision of the makers. Most of the fans already know that THE jacket wasn't as dark as it seems on screen.
It's all about the vision of environment and way of telling us the story by Steven Spielberg and Douglas Slocombe ("Famous for never using a light meter on the set of "Raiders Of The Lost Ark"")...

Cheers,

:junior: Raider

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:59 am

St. Dumas wrote:
indiana holt wrote:yesI know the color is ore screen accurate in all 3 films...but the authentic is the real color to go with if you want a spot on real Indy jacket..

and if you look closely you can actually see the authentic brown color on the jacket in all three films,in warious scenes...it's just the lighting that makes it darker

high regards
holt
I don't follow.

hey....for instance...take a look at this screen grab from Raiders...
Now almost in everyscene the jacket is very dark almost black,because of the lighting effects...
but in some sceenes you can see that the jacket has the authentic brown color on the jacket..
see the difference

authentic brown

authentic brown with heavy lighting and realized as a darker jacket

high regards
holt

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:53 am

Yes, that does bring up an interested perspective - What is more accurate - The color of the actual jacket or the color as perceived under the on-screen lighting conditions....?

Frankly, I'll go with the actual color, because then my photos will look better. Sometimes the darkened Wested from the late 1990s would look purple in certain environments, and that was always kind of bothersome.

Oh, and Holt, GREAT screengrabs. Is there any way you can shrink them to 640x480? I don't want to erase them because they're such good examples, but there's a resolution maximum for posting. Thanks and thanks to everyone for your input and feedback.

IndyFrench

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:08 am

of course

..I have resized them...It only takes a little time before it updates to the smaller picture...

they will be updated soon...photobucket you know....not so very fast with updates....

high regards
Holt

lingarn · Post by **lingarn** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:21 am

Interesting topic, and interesting discussion.

For most props, I prefer to have something that looks like it did on screen; given that many props are actually somewhat... rough, when seen up close, I prefer an idealized version of them.

I think that for this prop, the "authentic brown" jacket looks better for Indy, but I freely admit that I am not the expert others are.

Thanks for posting the pictures!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:26 am

Frankly, I'll go with the actual color, because then my photos will look better.

BINGO! Most people don't think that way, but to me, its the best way to go. If you try to wear the costume in the colors worn on screen then your pics will probably look a little off.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:28 am

I agree with you jay

High regards
Holt

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:13 pm

Yes and the first jacket has this dark colouring.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:14 pm

now I dont follow.hehe
what do you mean?

high regards
Holt

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:09 pm

Dumas,

The photo you are referring to has the jacket with that coloring due to two things - The lighting for the photo and the post-development of the image itself. Look at Indy's hat too, it's much more charcoalish brown in this photo than anything seen in the actual film. Hence, the color of the jacket in the photo is affected too, but both the hat and jacket are actually a much different color and it is one that is seen on screen often - Just look at his jacket in the opening scenes in Peru when he's walking up to the temple and starts filling the bag of sand - very "authentic brown" - His jacket only looks dark in dark scenes or else it is covered in Fuller's Earth during the wing and truck chases, which is of course going to throw off the color a lot. Add to that the fact that they used all sorts of brushes and chemicals on it to age it that would also affect the way it is seen on screen. Imagine taking that same process to the 1998 Wested and what will you end up with? Not the Raiders look, I can almost guarantee...

Rom Hunter · Post by **Rom Hunter** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:22 pm

IndyFrench,

Did the 2008 come with D-rings or rectangular buckles?

Also, do the piped pockets have zippers?

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:44 pm

Amazing stuff, French. Also incredible you held out for so long in ordering your second one!

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:10 pm

My 2008 has the black rectangular buckles, unlike the 1998 version which has D-rings. No zippers on any of the pockets.

Neo', it was a LONG wait. For years and years I was an old timer only by virtue of the fact that I have been around with the guys this long. But the inside joke back then was I was the guy with all the outdated gear - A PB from the pits of hades, the outdated Wested, the NH bag with the big square buckle and the NH gunbelts and holster. (I did have the David Morgan though - BAM!)

But there was so much going on with the jackets in those early Internet years I knew it was better to wait - and I was forced to because I was fresh out of college and poor! Meanwhile _'s closets filled up with dead animal hides with sleeves, Michaelson and Chris King and Agent5 and many others were testing jackets and debating their merits. I luckily remained poor.

But now the jacket is at a level of accuracy that I can more than live with...and I ain't poor no more!

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:26 pm

IndyFrench wrote:His jacket only looks dark in dark scenes or else it is covered in Fuller's Earth during the wing and truck chases, which is of course going to throw off the color a lot.

I have an authentic brown lambskin Raiders Wested from 2001 and the colour is the same as the first one in the top photo, so I know what it looks like. Watch the scene in Raiders where Indy breaks out of the Well of the Souls (broad desert daylight) -- my point is simply that the jacket in the left of your photo in broad daylight looks considerably more like what we see on screen than the jacket on the right. Regardless of how a new Wested is artificially aged, the on-screen jacket looks darker than the photo of your jacket on the right. Just saying is all.

I like the jacket on the right as well, no question, and I've seen some of the newer browns Peter offers (yes, in daylight). I'm just saying the one on the left looks more like what's on the screen. Could be a matter of opinion, I suppose, but I doubt it. Either way, those are two classic jackets.

SD

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:00 pm

Aeris - I have added photos above - Check 'em out.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:29 pm

St. Dumas wrote:
IndyFrench wrote:His jacket only looks dark in dark scenes or else it is covered in Fuller's Earth during the wing and truck chases, which is of course going to throw off the color a lot.
I have an authentic brown lambskin Raiders Wested from 2001 and the colour is the same as the first one in the top photo, so I know what it looks like. Watch the scene in Raiders where Indy breaks out of the Well of the Souls (broad desert daylight) -- my point is simply that the jacket in the left of your photo in broad daylight looks considerably more like what we see on screen than the jacket on the right. Regardless of how a new Wested is artificially aged, the on-screen jacket looks darker than the photo of your jacket on the right. Just saying is all.

I like the jacket on the right as well, no question, and I've seen some of the newer browns Peter offers (yes, in daylight). I'm just saying the one on the left looks more like what's on the screen. Could be a matter of opinion, I suppose, but I doubt it. Either way, those are two classic jackets.

SD

I see where you are coming from...it's just a matter of personally taste of what you see as the SA jacket...
but in the end there was only used ONE jacket thru out the film...and that was the authentic brown color jacket......brown...not dark brown.

and IndyFrench nice photos...I like the 08 wested on you...much better fit and suits you well

high regards
Holt

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:41 pm

Thanks Holt! It was a night and day difference when I put the new one on. I thought to myself - "Ah, so that's what it should be like!"

My old jacket always felt like a dead animal hanging off me.

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:25 pm

No problem my friend. I live to serve.

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:31 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:...but in the end there was only used ONE jacket thru out the film...and that was the authentic brown color jacket......brown...not dark brown.

You do know that "authentic" brown is the name Peter gave the hide he buys, don't you? He sources the brown lambskins he feels best matches the brown he used on the Raiders film jacket and makes it available to his customers under the name "authentic brown". The darker hide he makes available he calls simply, "dark brown".
SD

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:37 pm

Right - he sources "the brown lambskins he feels best matches the brown he used on the Raiders film jacket..." No argument from me on that point.

CM · Post by CM » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:13 am

A bunch of us are surprised by how cool the older jacket looks. Pocket size is bad - but the rest of the jacket is charismatic. It has has the correct feel.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:27 am

St. Dumas wrote:
Indiana Holt wrote:...but in the end there was only used ONE jacket thru out the film...and that was the authentic brown color jacket......brown...not dark brown.
You do know that "authentic" brown is the name Peter gave the hide he buys, don't you? He sources the brown lambskins he feels best matches the brown he used on the Raiders film jacket and makes it available to his customers under the name "authentic brown". The darker hide he makes available he calls simply, "dark brown".
SD

yes I know

high regards
Holt

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:34 am

A bunch of us are surprised by how cool the older jacket looks. Pocket size is bad - but the rest of the jacket is charismatic. It has has the correct feel.

My feeling exactly. It's the leather. The old English leather Peter used to use until about 2000 or so was perfect. I pray that someday Peter will source stuff that is at least similar. Someone used the term 'lifeless' to describe the leather Wested is and has been currently using. I have to agree when comparing it to the old leather used.

Notice how the back pleats hang off the old jacket exactly how they did in the film. My 1999 Wested is exactly the same. Why the pleats don't seem to react the same when given the same measurements today stumps me. I think it just may be the leather. Of course, I'm no expert here, though.

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:41 am

So wait - Are we saying here that after all the development and improvements to the jacket over the years, while the specs are now correct the leather itself is all wrong, contributing to a jacket that at its very essence lacks the Indy feel?

I just can't seem to get my head around that. To me, this jacket just needs some breaking in (maybe 10 years or so

) and it will be the Raiders jacket dead on. Keep in mind, that 1998 Wested didn't always look that way- Fresh out of the bag it was rather rigid and lifeless too.

Vivli · Post by **Vivli** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:13 am

I tend to think it's more a case that both jackets are great. The new one obviously looks more like Indy's real jacket, but the old one is just a great jacket. Okay, maybe it's not a great Indiana Jones jacket, with the extra length and incorrect back, but it's a great jacket regardless that looks good on you. The extra length looks good (despite being inaccurate to the movies) and the colour looks great too (even if the colour isn't the colour of Indy's jacket, it's just a good looking jacket).

Being old definitely helps in regards of giving the jacket an 'essence of Indy'. But you can't really prejudge the new jacket in comparison. As you say, in ten years, I bet your new jacket will look equally worn and cool looking.

I think they're both great jackets. Your new one is obviously more Indiana Jones's than the old, but the old is still a great jacket regardless. I'd be proud of both!

As in terms of colour, I think there's no reason to be concerned either way, because I think in some scenes Indy's jacket looks the colour of the old one, and in some, it looks the colour of the new. (Although I agree the actual film jacket was probably a very similar colour to your new one there). So both work and you should be very proud of both your jackets!

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:24 am

Vivli - You're a voice of wisdom! Keep up the good work!

High regards,
IndyFrench

Vivli · Post by **Vivli** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:56 am

Heh, thanks. I'm glad I was talking some sense rather than out of my rear end! I really don't know too much about this hobby still, I only have one Indy jacket, and don't plan to get another, so I'm not exactly an expert. But the community seems great and I really like trying to make a contribution.

I do think there's an interesting debate about the colour of the jackets, and whether you'd want a jacket that looks like it does on the screen or is the actual colour the jacket was, but to be honest, there's no solid answer to that anyway, so it's going to be personal preference. And since Wested still offer darker coloured jackets anyway, talking about it in this thread is a little irrelevant since it's not a change between old Westeds and new Westeds, since you can still request new Westeds in dark brown.

So really it comes down to terms of shape and detail, and it's easy to see your new jacket is more accurate. But I wouldn't be put off your old jacket, because as baggy and long as it is, as I said, it looks ace on you still, and that longer look is a great look to have as an alternative to your newer, more accurate jacket.

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:35 pm

OK guys, I see this discussion got really interesting

Indiana Holt posted nice screen shots but... one may always say "ok, Mr. Ford could have chosen from several jackets on set"

Anyway, we know the jacket wasn't as dark as it seems on many takes.
I had a great walk today with my wife and my new-born Mike (he's just waiting for his first box from Wested. Yes, I am serious

), we've taken a few pics. Now, look at these two, taken the same day, wearing the same Wested jacket (authentic lamb), just two different lighting conditions.

It says it all.

Take care,

:junior: Raider

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:09 pm

Raider - THANK YOU!

That says it all! You're the hero of the day!

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:51 pm

IndyFrench wrote:Raider - THANK YOU!

That says it all! You're the hero of the day!

No IndyFrench. The hero is the little guy waiting for his first Wested in this very baby carriage

He's the reason of a walk and the pics!
And seriously, I'm glad finally a few people will believe

Cheers,

:junior: Raider

WESTED 1998 VS. WESTED 2008!

WESTED 1998 VS. WESTED 2008!

color differences - pics