What's Wrong Here? .... Advice Needed

JulianK · Post by **JulianK** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:57 pm

At this point I'm seriously reconsidering my purchase of my Federation. No matter how I try to bash it, it just doesn't look right on my face. When I try to shorten the crown by making deeper humps, my head just pushed them back up.

Frankly I just think that the crown is too tall and that's why it doesn't look right. I've also measured the brim and it's 2.75 inches all the way around. I though they were supposed to come dimensionally cut. The profile doesn't look too bad but head on I just don't like the way it looks.

Any professional advice here? Is it too tall? Is it the bash? Is it the brim? Otherwise I'm tempted to send it back as I don't think it looks that good on me. Steve, if you read this I'd certainly appreciate your feedback.

Cheers guys.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii27 ... CN1378.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii27 ... CN1377.jpg

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:15 pm

I don't think the crown is too tall at all and it looks darn good - especially from the side. The top point of the pinch seems a bit high (like mine). Bring that down a bit and it'll help it come together.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:21 pm

the crowns on the feds are pretty tall. my guess is that you are pushing the center crease in too deep which is causing the stovepipe sides to collapse in on themselves. for me, the center dent will never hit the top of my head on the feds i have.

your profile looks great but i believe that you have sacrificed the straight sides in order to get the back of your center dent down low enough to give you this nice profile....hopefully there will be a good in between spot for you. nice camel humps do not weigh heavily on the fact that you have a deep center bash, but more along the lines of how your center pinch meats the side dents (the Y formation at the center, top part of the hat).

i don't think you are anywhere close to giving up on a federation. the thing will take so much abuse and morph its shape so many times that you'll be surprised that your not calling for a reblock already.....just stay away from the kettle when working the crown.

good luck and keep plugging away at it.....enjoy doing it as you will pick up alot of skills and tricks that you will need later on......say when steve accidentally sends you an open crowned hat....those skills will definitely come in handy

(just kidding steve.......i actually liked bashing that hj and may request open crowned hats point forward

).

Post by **Dalexs** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:53 pm

My initial response (added after the fact): Nothing.

When you say, "you don't like the way it looks" (head-on) what exactly don't you like?

Do you mean you don't look exactly like the man himself?
Is this the first hat you've ever worn?

Based on the picture above, a few observations:
You have a wide face (OR you just got a dang big head, take it however you want it

)

You could probably wear a wider brim and pull it off very nicely.
BUT, on you, this hat has a very traditonal, vintage look about it.

IF you really need to... I would try to push the center dent down a bit more and tighten the front pinch.
You might also try swooping the side brim a bit more.

Dalexs

Arkansas Russell · Post by **Arkansas Russell** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:15 pm

For what little I can offer, I think it looks great!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:26 pm

Unless something's changed, once you bash the Federation out of its open crown state, they won't take it back, since they won't be able to resell it as a new hat. After you shape and crease it, the felt retains a certain amount of memory even when you pop it back out. That's why they tell you to try it on first before bashing it, in case it doesn't fit. However, fit and bash are two seperate things.

I tend to agree with Dalexs regarding the particulars, though.

fulltangninja · Post by **fulltangninja** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:43 pm

The hat looks great to me. I think you've done a good job, and it DOES look right with your face. Good job

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:28 am

I agree with Dalexs. I think you have a round head, and the Fed is a long oval. They used to make round oval hats when everyone wore a hat- That's a niche market waiting to be exploited. Why don't you become a vendor Julian? Make round oval hats. Round oval heads are common among Asians, Native Americans, Germans, Middle Easterners, and others. Short of that, make your own personal block. Many here have.

Rusty Jones · Post by **Rusty Jones** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:56 am

For what its worth, I thought it made my fed closer to stove pipe look when I deepened the crown dents and extended them a bit back....

mufflowne · Post by **mufflowne** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:38 am

Eh, JulianK, I wish i pulled it off half as well as you do. It seriously fits you, you're just not used to it yet.

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:43 am

If I had to guess, I'd say it's because the whole hat's too small for your head, but if it feels right to you then it probably isn't.

JulianK · Post by **JulianK** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:35 am

When you say, "you don't like the way it looks" (head-on) what exactly don't you like?

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I'm just not used to such a tall crown. This is my first real fedora since all my other hats are Tilleys. To be honest, it looks much better in the pics than it does to me in the mirror! Yup, I know too darn well that I have a big head! I keep telling my wife that its that way to house my gigantic brain but I gather from the look she gives me that she doesn't buy that story!

Great advice on pinching the front a little tighter. I think that'll remove some of the roundness (dome shape) that I see looking head on. I certainly want to try to get it looking good because it's a perfect fit and frankly one of the most comfortable hats I have!

Cheers guys. I'll post more pics when I try again.

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:31 am

Yea, the Federation is extremely comfortable, that's the first thing I thought when I put mine on the first time.

Bemo · Post by **Bemo** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:26 am

Julian, thanks for the reference pic. I too wear almost exclusively Tilley's and am about to receive my first Fed (it's under the tree as we speak) and am worried about crown height as well. The Tilley's have a flat top so visually you're not used to seeing a hat with any height on your head. I think it looks good but with your round/oval face you could do with a bigger brim IMHO.

Peaceful thoughts everone!

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:49 pm

Keep it! I think the hat looks good proportionwise, and would add nothing to the brim sides on other hats you buy. Sometimes, some of us actually need more brim on the sides, and some of us need less than the film hats.

From the side view, it appears the hat is not too tall at all. To get some of the taper out from the front view, flatten out the top of the hat more, by hitting it with a ruler, on the top. Many times this will straigthen the hat up more, and get rid of some of the taper. IMPO, you look as if you need a round oval hat, instead of the common regular ovals. Same with GCR, who looks better with the AB Deluxe due to Marc using round ovals for his original Raiders fedora. Most folks don't need a round oval, but a few of us do, just to match the facial width.

If your head is more of a round oval, this would account for the taper on your new Federation. Your round head pushes out the bottom of the regular oval that the hat came with which lead to instant taper.

To me, round ovals with full faces are the hardest shapes to match the hat to, unless you have a set of round oval blocks(which I don't) The next best thing to do in this case is for the hatter to use the next largest size block for your head size, and then drum in the sweat to fit. Larger hat sizes of course are wider hats across the front. Since we are stuck with regular ovals on most factory hats(due to most folks haveing this head shape) a round oval person could move up to the next hat size, and then pad the front and back, under the sweat to make the hat fit, while the wider crown would match the head width better, and look better. Hope this helps. Fedora

JulianK · Post by **JulianK** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:15 pm

Thanks for the input Steve....I greatly appreciate it!

Ok, I did little tweaking on the bash from everyone's advice. Tightened the pinch a little and creased the front (took my inspiration from Steve's avatar on the crease). I think it's a lot better.

I do have a question though about that whole round oval thing. If I understand correctly, if my head was round oval, the sides of my head would touch the sweatband before the front/back. However, every time I put the hat on it makes contact almost immediately around my whole head. In any case, Steve, I sent you an e-mail to arrange a time for me to call. I'd certainly like to talk to you on this because now I'm considering getting my AB from Marc since he has the round oval blocks.

So what do you guys think? Is it any better and are there any suggestions for improvement>

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:12 pm

You did a great job. Even though your hat didn't look bad at all before, the improvement you made is quite striking. There's no mistaking it for anything other than an Raiders hat now. Raising the brim a little on the bow side near the back is an option you may want to consider, but you've got a fine looking Fed there right now.

Jack

Dr.Seuss · Post by **Dr.Seuss** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:01 am

JK:

Vast improvement! Do a search for Canon's explanation of the "sides," or "supports." Further defining the dent/sides should put the final "tweak," to your lid.

You are well on your way. Great job.

Sincerely,

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:40 am

The tweaking solved the problem to me. I think the hat now looks good. From your description of how the hat fits, I would now say you are NOT a round oval but a regular oval. But, you do have a full facial shape, and the brim dimensions on the sides are the right specs for you.

Few people actually need round oval hats. And that is why you don't see them often in factory hats, unless you have the ability to specify this from a factory hat.

Marc's round ovals were made in error, which turned out to be what a few folks like GCR needed. I am talking about his original block. He now has the CS block, which to me, makes a better Raiders fedora anyways, plus he has his set of round ovals. Don't overthink this round oval shape. Many times on a reg oval head, the width of round oval crown is just TOO WIDE to be accurate. Indy's hat fit his face in a very streamlined way. That is what a prime consideration should be when getting the hat to look right.

I am gonna have a few round ovals made in the popular hat sizes, just to have on hand in the rare case of a round oval being needed. Generally speaking, the more business you do with Oriental folks, the more the need for round ovals. Head shape is tied in with race, believe it or not.
When I had my blocks made, I had regular ovals and long ovals made since this is more common than round ovals. I have been able to make the reg. oval look good on some round oval heads, when I knew up front that the customer was a round oval.(by using an oversized, thus wider block, and then drumming in the sweat to fit the head size) Most folks don't know what their head shape is, unless they have bought custom hats prior. And as stated prior, most folks were given regular oval heads. It is by far the most common head shape, at least in America and Europe, where most of my business comes from. Fedora

Post by **Dalexs** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:52 am

That made a huge difference. It's always amazing wehat a few minor tweeks can do forthe look ofthe hat.
(And again, I didn't think the original was that bad either.)

One suggestion I'd like to make to eveyone reading this:
Take picutres of yourselves in natural light (preferably outdoors)
Point and Shoot flash almost never makes anyone look good.

Dalexs