Why does the MBA shirt look pinkish???

Doctor_Jones · Post by **Doctor_Jones** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:19 pm

That is a thing that holds me back to order one of Noel's shirts.
I don't want to go to the hassle of redying the darn thing myself, if you know what I mean.
Can't he do anything about it? So then I can order a shirt which looks perfect from the beginning.

Kind regards

DJ

Post by **Ken** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:40 pm

Well when we were at Noels the other week MK asked him the very question. There was a display in Noel's office with the original shirt. MK was maintaining it was a different colour to the ones Noel sells whereas Noel kept trying to convince him otherwise. So it doesnt look like he has any plans to change the colour.

Ken

MaryonRavenwood · Post by **MaryonRavenwood** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:44 pm

Keep in mind also that colors can appear different behind the eye of a camera, under various lighting sources, etc.
Regards--Maryon

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:49 pm

You want a shirt that looks like this, right?

Rick Blaine asked me are people looking for screen accurate or costume accurate?

Lighting can change the way fabric looks on screen.

These two photos are of the same shirt.

One was taken without the flash and the other was. There is another color that is not displayed here. It's the actual color of the shirt.

So, I guess what I am saying is that the shirt probably is the same color but only under the right lighting conditions.

Cheers,
Pyro.

Marcus Brody · Post by **Marcus Brody** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:54 pm

My non-Indy khakis actually look a bit pink in certain lighting conditions. Keep in mind that cameras have an affect on the actual of something. A good example is the Robocop suit, it looks silver in the movies, but is actually greenish in tint.

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:04 pm

Pyroxene, that's a great camera illustration!

Ken, did Noel let you guys take pics of his display of the original Indy costume?

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:36 pm

Ken, did Noel let you guys take pics of his display of the original Indy costume?

You guys should have fed Noel alot of Turkey so he'd pass out, then all of you could have 'raided' his stuff and taken turns trying on his original gear just like in that Seinfeld episode with the toys.

My question here is how could Noel look at his shirt and the original shirt and see two different colors? So, everyone was comparing the two and they were different? Yet Noel says they are identical? This just doesn't make sense. While I can't comment on what the original color is, I can't say since I've never seen it but it sure as heII isn;t white!!! All you need to do is look at backround color in Raiders to tell you that its a creamy, off-white, VERY similar to what Noel offers. Look at Sallah's house and at his kids' white hats (beanies?) and clothes and then look at Indy's shirt in the same frame. Or, Belloq's suit and Indy's shirt together in the same frame. You can see white from off-white very easily.

Post by **Ken** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:00 pm

Yeah we all took pictures. My films still getting developed but the others with their flashy digital cameras should really have the pics up by now <not so subtle hint.

Ken

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:03 pm

MaryonRavenwood wrote:Keep in mind also that colors can appear different behind the eye of a camera, under various lighting sources, etc.
Regards--Maryon

Agreed.

Pyr, great illustration.

Reminds me of a digital video I just saw of myself last week from the weekend of Thanksgiving. I was wearing a seal chrome goat Expedition from Flightsuits and yet the jacket color appeared very, very dark on the TV. It reminded me of Indy's jacket on-screen color in the opening Temple scene in Raiders.

TheOther Jones · Post by **TheOther Jones** » Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:35 am

You should remember that not only the lighting affects the color of the shirt, but also the colors of objects in its surroundings.
I'm wearing a Noel Howard shirt in my profile pic. Does it look pinkish?

Post by **Dalexs** » Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:54 pm

I will say this again because it needs to be clearly stated:

While the NH shirt upon up-close "visual" inspection does not look like the right color, after the wardrobe dept, cinematography dept, film processing dept, all get thru with it, there is no telling what the original color may have been.

So I say that the NH shirt is probable the right color, it just photographed differently, depending on changes scene to scene, due to the lighting and location.

I have also stated before that the Redye Process was started to try to achieve a more "accurate color as seen on the screen" when viewed in person.

I have included the following photos of my shirt newly redyed: (I just took these 15 minutues ago)

This is a side by side with the Cabelas just for reference.

Inside, 1) natural/filtered sunlight 2)With flash

Outside 1) Unfiltered Direct Sun 2)Filtered Shade 3)In shadows.

This shirt has been redyed to reflect what I think is the best match to "Screen Accuracy"
using a newly modified recipe of Grey/Taupe Rit Dye 4:3.

You can see how the shirt changes color under the various conditions.

Hope this helps. Any questions class......

Dalexs

Doctor_Jones · Post by **Doctor_Jones** » Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:47 pm

Thanks all...

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Fri Feb 07, 2003 6:03 pm

Wow Dalexs! That about sums it up! It's amazing how much of an effect the setting and lighting can have on one's perception of the same item.

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Fri Feb 07, 2003 6:12 pm

Good one, Dalexs. Your's is a good example of color changes by type of light. Then there are filters, type of film, batch number of film, etc.

There is also the perception issue.

I still like this diagram that Rob DFW posted awhile back:

-S

Post by **Indy Magnoli** » Fri Feb 07, 2003 6:44 pm

Take a look at this one!

This shot reminds me of the RobDFW colour illusion... compare the shirt to a white jacket and... Voila! A brown Indy shirt!

Kind regards,
Indy

Indiana Philip · Post by **Indiana Philip** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 1:49 am

Sergei wrote:
-S

A and B are the same shade of gray? Uhmm....no they're not. They are obviously different. Can someone enlighten me on this

Indiana Philip

geordie jones · Post by **geordie jones** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 4:32 am

Deep down, my heart says that this is the correct coloring once it has been worn,washed and bleached by a little sun, but my head says different.
I dont know If I would be breaking any patent or copyright, but I am in the process of asking a very good taylor in England to see if he can make a couple of the same design but from a different material mix as I feel that when looking and also having a NH shirt, the material its made from seems not to be heavy enough.

INDIANA_7 · Post by **INDIANA_7** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 4:35 am

Indiana Philip wrote: A and B are the same shade of gray? Uhmm....no they're not. They are obviously different. Can someone enlighten me on this

Hey,

They probably are the same if you're under the influence of alcohol or a controlled substance!.

Best regards,
INDIANA 7

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 10:23 am

INDIANA_7 wrote:Indiana Philip wrote: A and B are the same shade of gray? Uhmm....no they're not. They are obviously different. Can someone enlighten me on this

Oh, yes A & B are the same shade of gray!!!! This diagram was developed from MIT just to prove the point of how eye's work and how they perceive color. If you don't believe A & B are the same, don't take my word for it. Print down the diagram. Then cut out the A square and then the B. Place A and B next to each other, and you will see the results.

And you don't need to be under any influence of any legal or illegal substance!

-S

MK · Post by MK » Sat Feb 08, 2003 10:57 am

I saw the TOD film shirt in person at Noel's next to the one he sells.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME COLOR!

The film shirt looks like what we see on screen. The other looks pinkish.

Enough said.

Indiana Cojones · Post by **Indiana Cojones** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 11:11 am

Sergei wrote:
INDIANA_7 wrote:Indiana Philip wrote: A and B are the same shade of gray? Uhmm....no they're not. They are obviously different. Can someone enlighten me on this

Oh, yes A & B are the same shade of gray!!!! This diagram was developed from MIT just to prove the point of how eye's work and how they perceive color. If you don't believe A & B are the same, don't take my word for it. Print down the diagram. Then cut out the A square and then the B. Place A and B next to each other, and you will see the results.

And you don't need to be under any influence of any legal or illegal substance!

-S

I didn't believe it either, but I took it into Photoshop and, sure enough, they're the same color. That's one of the most interesting optical illusions I've seen in a long time. Thanks!

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 11:25 am

Further description of the illusion from MIT:

The visual system needs to determine the color of objects in the world. In this case the problem is to determine the gray shade of the checks on the floor. Just measuring the light coming from a surface (the luminance) is not enough: a cast shadow will dim a surface, so that a white surface in shadow may be reflecting less light than a black surface in full light. The visual system uses several tricks to determine where the shadows are and how to compensate for them, in order to determine the shade of gray "paint" that belongs to the surface.

The first trick is based on local contrast. In shadow or not, a check that is lighter than its neighboring checks is probably lighter than average, and vice versa. In the figure, the light check in shadow is surrounded by darker checks. Thus, even though the check is physically dark, it is light when compared to its neighbors. The dark checks outside the shadow, conversely, are surrounded by lighter checks, so they look dark by comparison.

A second trick is based on the fact that shadows often have soft edges, while paint boundaries (like the checks) often have sharp edges. The visual system tends to ignore gradual changes in light level, so that it can determine the color of the surfaces without being misled by shadows. In this figure, the shadow looks like a shadow, both because it is fuzzy and because the shadow casting object is visible.

The "paintness" of the checks is aided by the form of the "X-junctions" formed by 4 abutting checks. This type of junction is usually a signal that all the edges should be interpreted as changes in surface color rather than in terms of shadows or lighting.

As with many so-called illusions, this effect really demonstrates the success rather than the failure of the visual system. The visual system is not very good at being a physical light meter, but that is not its purpose. The important task is to break the image information down into meaningful components, and thereby perceive the nature of the objects in view.

Indiana Philip · Post by **Indiana Philip** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 12:11 pm

Wow, that is really mind boggeling! I can't wait to get back home on Monday and have access to my printer, so that I might check it out more to my satisfaction.
Thanks for the MIT description and explanation of this intriguing phenomenon Sergei. It is truly enlightening, and quite amazing.
Where is it said that we are fearfully and wonderfully made? This sure proves it.
Indiana Philip

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 1:15 pm

I also didn't believe the diagram and imported it into Photoshop. Sure enough, they are the exact same shade of grey! Unbelievable! Just makes you wonder how many gear items on the screen are different colors than what we think.

Regards,

Dr. J

Post by **Dalexs** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 1:46 pm

Dr._J wrote:Unbelievable! Just makes you wonder how many gear items on the screen are different colors than what we think.

Regards,

Dr. J

Lets see... the brown, no wait, black, ribbon on the hat... no I mean dark brown/black... hmmm what else...the jacket, definately black, no wait only under certain light, its dark brown....

Dalexs

PS Hey thanks for reposting that Sergi, I always like that thing because it was mind boggling after I did it.

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:34 pm

Dalex, don't forget the socks...black or brown?

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 11:21 pm

Indiana Philip wrote: Where is it said that we are fearfully and wonderfully made?

Psalm 139 verse 14:

"I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;

Marvelous are Your works,

And that my soul knows very well."

Indiana Philip · Post by **Indiana Philip** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:08 am

Thanks Schwammy! And this illusion certainly does prove it. I printed this illusion on an Epson Stylus Photo 820. I then cut out square A and placed it along side square B in an effort to disprove the statement that square A was the same color as square B. You can imagine my consternation dissoving into lucidation when square A and square B turned out to be the very same shade of gray.

Indiana Philip

Why does the MBA shirt look pinkish???

Why does the MBA shirt look pinkish???

Wow!!!

Re: Wow!!!