Anyone Recognise this? Oh Gun Experts? Rrr Shiver ma timbers

IndyTaz · Post by **IndyTaz** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:01 am

G'day folks! A friend of mine gave me this piece. He picked it up in his travels from Malaysia or the middle-East. I can't remember which. I think it has had rebuild ie. the wood. What the heck is it? It has seen many firings that's for sure. It is a genuine firearm as well. Although I would be a little bit dubious using it myself LOL The rod under the barrel comes out to tamp the ball ect in the barrel. It cocks and the trigger ect work. Although not Indy...Umm...I didn't know where else to turn LOL

I couldn't find any markings or dates on it...well that I could discern anyway.

Regards
TAZ

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:14 am

Hmm, it's an old flint-lock pistol.Who knows what model. If they even called them models back then. Definitely not state-of-the-art!

Of this century anyway! Hope this helps!

don't mention it!

TR

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:40 am

Like TR said - a flintlock pistol. Asian style, my guess would be sometime in the 19th century. Typologically and historically, this kind of weapon should be from the early 1800s, but since there's a certain "development lag" between European and Asian firearms, this specimen could be from a period in time when corresponding weapons in Europe were already obsolete.

The corrosion on the side plates and lock are unfortunate - can't really tell much about the decorations or their context. I somehow get the feeling that the decorative elements of the barrel don't really correspond to the ones on the side and grip plates, but that might just be me...

What makes you think that the wooden stock is not original? Are the side plates not properly aligned, are there any tells of a removed, earlier assembly? Does the ramrod and it's fasteners look original? The shape of the stock is typical for the 1800s, although again, I'm not too certain about the typologies of Asian-made ancient weapons...

You mentioned that the lock mechanism works. That flint looks rather worn... does it give any spark? While I wouldn't recommend to even think about loading and discharging this gun, it's always nice to have a fully functional weapon in one's collection. Try to unscrew the top of the cocking lever and remove the flint... if it doesn't budge, leave it at that. Otherwise, replace with a sharper stone.

Anyway, it's a nice pistol. Check for any "live" corrosion and take precautions to prevent any further damage. I wouldn't try to polish anything - keep it in it's current shape.

IndyTaz · Post by **IndyTaz** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:23 am

Wow! Thanks guys, Texas Scandanavia

That's the best info I have had so far.

Everything moves and clicks...I took the sound advice and removed the flint. Actually, I don't know if the faintness of detail in the patterns is because of corrosion. I think it is a bad cast LOL. I was told this pistol might have been made from a few different pistols, possibly salvaged to make a working one a few hundred ago. I dunno. it was free, I was there, what more can I say? Anyone got any shot they care to sell me? just 2 or three balls to put in the shadowbox? What else do I need? A powder bag/purse/horn thingy? LOL

The designs on the barrel are weird. Reminds me of those Turkish brass coffe sets that were big in the 80's

I was surprised that the barrel isn't round on the outside but that hexagon shape. It has an inner core that is round. I was also interested in that it has a laynard ring ala Indy LOL It is a big mutha and really really heavy.

Any other ideas? Anyone seen anything similar? Links? I'll see if I can get any other info from the guy who gave it to me:) BTW Is it worth anything? i guess not LOL

Warm Regards
Christiian

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:02 am

WOW it looks really fantastic, fake or not fake it's a wonderful piece! Time for Pirates of the Caribbean gear Taz?

Solo4114 · Post by **Solo4114** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:26 am

You can replace the flint, but I'd expect the barrel to be in pretty lousy shape. It does look like just a basic flintlock pistol. I've got a similar item (an old blunderbuss).

Don't bother checking for rifling -- these things were smoothbore. Unless the item was military issue (and based on the engraving, I'd be pretty surprised if it was), most firearms back then didn't have "models" exactly.

There's european weapons issued to the armies of the day that were based on certain patterns or certain models (IE: the Baker rifle, the Brown Bess musket, various pattern light and heavy cavalry sabres, etc.), but unless there's something unique about the weapon that would identify the manufacturer, you probably won't know who made it.

Artisans were still making these things in the 18th and 19th century, before the advent of larger manufacturers.

IndyTaz · Post by **IndyTaz** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:58 pm

WOW!!! Yet more wonderful information and observations!!! Thank Erri, it's not a fake...umm, I think LOL

Any other final comments? More pic requests?

Regards
TAZ

Terryhimself · Post by **Terryhimself** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:41 pm

From the pictures,this would appear to be a tourist gun. We used to see about one a month at the gun shop I used to work for. They were made in various middle eastern countries and sold to tourists.
Generally they were made from bits and pieces and poor quality castings. NEVER INTENDED TO BE FIRED! Looks great on a wall and the price was right.....Terry

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:15 am

Final comments you ask? Here it is...

"that pistol looks great!"

montana · Post by **montana** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:49 am

My best guess is late 18th century or early 19th. Of coure I can't be sure it isn't a fake tourist prop, and judging by those strange ..things.. inscriptions or whatever it is on the barrel it is a possibility. But anyway... I think that the hexagon-shaped barrel was pupular in the 19th century. Don't want to spoil the fun but do not fire the gun! If it's a modern fake it surley wasn't built to be fired, if its like 200 years old it would probably blow up in your face. But, if you want to buy bullets or other stuff for the gun http://www.cabelas.com have 'em.

montana

montana · Post by **montana** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:32 am

IndyTaz wrote:WOW!!! Yet more wonderful information and observations!!! Thank Erri, it's not a fake...umm, I think LOL

you can vener be sure of it's age, regardless what everyone says. My buddy has a cool knife from Morocco that appears to be at least 200 years old, but it's actually 30!

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:25 am

The "designs" on the barrel have an Islamic influence to them. As has been said before, your pistol came from North Africa of Southwest Asia somewhere. The rest of the pistol has more of a Persian / Turkish type "flavor" to it, so my guess would be that region, even possibly Afghanistan, as they still produce firearms like these in mountain villages all over. Because of that, your pistol could be anywhere from two hundred to ten years old. Too bad the sideplate and lock are so corroded, though. They would have had more detail like the barrel. I wouldn't bother looking for any hallmarks or maker's marks, however, as few gunsmiths from this region marked their wares in this way. They simply decorated their weapons in a personal style, and left it at that. That is a great looking piece, by the way! Enjoy!

IndyTaz · Post by **IndyTaz** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:41 am

Hey guys!!! I just want to thank you all once again for all your insights and observations!!! Thanks ever so much. If I can find out exactly where it was purchased I will chime in againg:)

Warm Regards
Christian

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:29 pm

Well, at last everyone ruled out it being a bow and arrow.

Regards! Michaelson

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am

Hm. Ya know, Michaelson, that "thing" beneath the barrel kinda looks like a crossbow bolt...

Fatdutchman · Post by **Fatdutchman** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:01 pm

Wow, I come here and find flintlocks! In my "other life", I am a flintlock gunsmith. I build 18th century flintlock rifles. http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ ... Flintlocks
I agree, it's probably a "tourist" gun. From where, I couldn't say exactly. North Africa or the far east. It doesn't have the typical North African look. It's not all that old, either. Even in new shape, it may not be a good idea to fire it!

Magnum Jones · Post by **Magnum Jones** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:26 am

Is that smooth bore? or rifled? The flint lock time era wont be rifled. If it is rifled it is a replica. also are there any markings or symbols stamped on the parts? and one more question. if any markings do the all match? You may have to take it apart to see.

JEEP · Post by **JEEP** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:01 pm

Fatdutchman wrote:Wow, I come here and find flintlocks! In my "other life", I am a flintlock gunsmith. I build 18th century flintlock rifles. http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ ... Flintlocks

Just checked out the pics. My compliments; you are a fine craftsman.

I am considering getting into black-powder shooting. Do you have a homepage?

/Jakob

Fatdutchman · Post by **Fatdutchman** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:01 pm

I don't have a webpage, just my photo albums. By the way, feel free to browse through all of them http://photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman Just go there and you can click on any of the sub-albums...Flintlocks, Original Flintlocks, PA German, Jaeger, etc.

Some of the Traditional muzzleloading message boards that I frequent:
www.americanlongrifles.com/forum
www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/fusionbb.php
http://muzzleloadermag.infopop.cc/eve

MUCH can be learned on these boards. Hope to see you there!

And you all think that Indygear people can really be "into it" and "detail oriented"... wait till you get to know some of us 18th century folks!!!

JEEP · Post by **JEEP** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:45 am

Fatdutchman wrote:And you all think that Indygear people can really be "into it" and "detail oriented"... wait till you get to know some of us 18th century folks!!!

Yup - and some of us medieval folks.....

Being a re-enactor, the extreme nitpicky-ness that can be encountured on this board is actually a relief - compared to what you can encounter on various re-enactment board and at fairs.

/Jakob