Watch America's Got Talent Tomorrow Night and See WHIPS!!!!!

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:46 am

Thursday, July 20th on NBC 8pm central time

Gery and Barbara Deer(Who run the Ohio WWAC convention) will be performing on the America's got talent results show, and it's LIVE! So if they screw up it won't be edited, and we can all laugh,

Be sure to watch and cheer them on!

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Ripper · Post by **Ripper** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:31 am

That show is sooo screwy...I love it ! Ill look for it on Thursday. Thanks for letting us know.

USNavyBlueAngel · Post by **USNavyBlueAngel** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:22 pm

I'll be tuned in for sure!

Thanks, Paul!!

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:29 pm

No worries!

And Cathy, As long as nothing unexpected happens, I'll be seeing you next weekend!

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:00 pm

Paul Thanks for the reminder, I heard about this last week but it slipped my mind.

Dan

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:00 am

I watched the Thursday show last week. What they do is reveal which performer from the Wednesday show was voted by the audience to go to the finals. Before that they show about 5 acts that are not competing for the million dollars, but are still neat to see.

Last week they had on a guy who jumped rope 22 times while having three women holding on to him.

It seems to do well, you have to have both a lot of talent, and a lot of charisma. An equal blend of both seams good.

I recently finished a run of 4 weekends performing at a local ren fair, about 3 shows a day each weekend. After watching a lot of good entertainers, I could see that audience members would come back to see repeat performances from the entertainers that were the most charismatic. In some cases, the good entertainers had a good joke to go along with every trick.

I've never seen one of Gery's shows before, so I don't know what his stage presence is like, but I'm sure he'll impress a lot of people with his double-handed candle-snuffing routine.

-Adam

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:09 am

winrichwhips wrote:
I recently finished a run of 4 weekends performing at a local ren fair, about 3 shows a day each weekend. After watching a lot of good entertainers, I could see that audience members would come back to see repeat performances from the entertainers that were the most charismatic. In some cases, the good entertainers had a good joke to go along with every trick.

How was that?
Ive been asked by a local Renn whip cracker to join a routine thats planned for next years fair with skip san souice. Ive never done anything like this before so im not quite sure what to expect.

Ill be watching tomorrow for sure!
Adam

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:30 pm

Pretty short act,

They did a nice job, but they sure did not get the credit
they should have gotten.

s10lamarr · Post by **s10lamarr** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:47 pm

I havnt seen the show yet but i will thanks for the info.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:24 pm

@#$%, forgot about it. Can anyone post it?

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:49 pm

I recorded it on VHS,
Ill see if i can convert it over to a MPG
file.

s10lamarr · Post by **s10lamarr** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:28 pm

it wasent good you didnt miss anything.

USNavyBlueAngel · Post by **USNavyBlueAngel** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:30 pm

s10lamarr wrote:it wasent good you didnt miss anything.

Pretty bold statement there from a newbie!

Normally I'm pretty easy going, but you just insulted my friends!!! I know both Gery & Scout, and Gery is a very respected whip coach. I thought he did a great job, not only technically, but entertainment wise.

Who are you to come on here & say it wasn't that great? Could you have done better???

ANY positive coverage our sport can get on TV is good!!

Since you made such an idiotic statement, why don't you share with us exactly what you thought Gery didn't do right, and tell us how you would have done better?!?!

As you can tell, I am very proud of, and happy for Gery & Scout, and I DO NOT TAKE KINDLY TO PEOPLE INSULTING MY FRIENDS!!!!!!!!

Ripper · Post by **Ripper** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:39 pm

agreed !

s10lamarr · Post by **s10lamarr** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:21 pm

sorry about that froger but i wont reply here anymore i was expecting more then what i saw thats all i was just making an opinion didnt mean to disrespect any1 like you just did to me.

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:44 pm

s10lamarr wrote:it wasent good you didnt miss anything.

What were you looking for?

They did a great job with the time that they had on there,
and they deffinatly should have been picked as the best act.

s10lamarr · Post by **s10lamarr** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:04 pm

I agree they did do very good and yes they should have had it hands down but i guess i was hoping for some crazy two handed techniques. And again sorry for being the downer. I didnt mean it like dark angel made it out to be.

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:11 pm

While I agree that the statement lacked a bit of tack, it is your opinion, and I respect that. Though I would very much like to know why you thought it stunk. As far as I know Gery is only one of two people I know who has put out candles(or cut targets) using the two handed crossover. The only one I know of who has done it with bullwhips(instead of stockwhips), the only one who had a live person holding it, and the only one who has performed it on television(twice now). Not that there aren't plenty of people who can do it, because there are, but I haven't seen anyone else do it.

I will say that I really don't like the show, did anyone else notice how much they stalled and drug out the results?!!! When Gery and Barbara were on Steve Harvey's big time show, they had much more time to talk, and there was more whipcracking, and it went a lot smoother, it was a much better performance/appearance all together.

But back to the point, it is your opinion and you are definitely entitled to it, but I would be interested to know your reasons for coming to that conclusion.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:16 pm

I didn't see it but would like to, so Mola Ram countin' on you (btw nice to see you back, been MIA for a while there).

s10lamarr,

Your comment on their performance bit condescending, I don't know your whip cracking skills but if you could have offered a piece of constructive criticism that may have gone over better. Just like in your topic “This is the first whip i ever made and I will make more” Simon Martin praises you on your first attempt and then just points out a few things that you could work on. I don’t think you’d be happy if he ripped on you for all the work you put into it.

Best,
Herr Jones

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:19 pm

Sorry I was in the middle of posting when you posted a reply.

No worries, you didn't mean any harm by it, it just came across that way due to the whole non verbal, internet, communication thing.

And just to make sure that my next statement isn't taken the wrong way:

Welcome to the group! And tell us a little about yourself, I hope you enjoy the forums here, the people here are really great!

And congrats on the purchase of the Simon Martin whip, he's a great guy, and an excellent whipmaker!

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:06 pm

s10lamarr said: "it wasent good you didnt miss anything."

While I might have used different words, I think I have to agree with s10lamarr. I certainly believe he has a right to voice his opinion. I don't think any of us truly believe he was out to insult anyone.

After looking forward to the program, and leaving numerous reminder notes around my apartment, I was disappointed. Not with Gery's performance or his technique; I am not qualified to judge that, but with the program- the presentation itself.

Firstly, due to what I would consider flawed camera work, I had difficulty seeing precisely what was happening- keeping track of the action. Also, I would have liked for Gery to have had the opportunity to "set-up" the act, to explain his routine- to discuss in more detail what he would be doing.

I felt that Gery's act was short changed. Too bad Gery didn't wear a feathered boa, he would have gotten more air time.
-ATB-
Boggsstandard

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:44 pm

I side with Boggstandard on this one.

I've seen Gery practice this trick, and it is a cool trick, but the way the trick came across on the show didn't do it justice.

I have a feeling that they give each Thursday night 'novelty' act a strict time-limit, and Gery really shortened his set-up of the routine to make sure that he'd have enough time to put out all the candles. The camera work and sound could have been better, as well.

I think the guy playing 'Axel F' on the water glasses won in no small part thanks to his costume, which was really over the top.

I'm planning on going to Annie Oakley Days, so it should be interesting to hear Gery's story about the experience.

-Adam

PS: For anyone interested, in the trick Gery was doing a crack called the Queensland Crossover. There are four seperate cracks performed in this sequence, and I believe Gery only uses one of the cracks, the flick with the right hand, to target the candles.

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:35 pm

Herr Jones wrote:I didn't see it but would like to, so Mola Ram countin' on you (btw nice to see you back, been MIA for a while there).

Heres the video
WMV file

You noticed i was gone 8-[
Yea, I had end of the year exams, and I never got a chance
to view the site. Its nice to be back

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:58 pm

Thanks for the clip Mola Ram! I'll check it out tomorrow.

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:18 pm

Wow, Tempers have been running hot in Club Obi Wan of late, glad to seen this misunderstanding cooled down before it became worse. There wasn’t anything specifically insulting to Gery or his wife, just someone’s opinion that they didn’t think the show was anything spectacular. I was a bit disappointed too. Gerys whip work is always impressive but its pretty obvious it was rushed, I am sure we would have all liked to have seen a longer segment that showcasing more whipcacking then just one trick, even if it was a good one. While the camera work could have been better, it’s was still good to see the sport portrayed in such a positive main stream light.

Dan

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:38 pm

Thanks Mola Ram, for posting that. I meant to set the DVR to record it and I forgot. I am glad that I got to see it.

Wow! The dude has whipcracking skills. Knowing something about cracking a whip, I can really appreciate that. I am sure that most of the folks out in the audience were totally clueless as to how hard that is.

I agree that it was rushed, but you have to understand how many acts they try to cram onto the show.

I also agree that the setup could have been better, if they would have allowed more time. The camera work also did not exactly set the screen on fire, either.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:19 am

Yeah, I was wondering what was going on for a second. It would have been nice if they let him do some cutting and/or cracking or something to lead in to that.

s10lamarr · Post by **s10lamarr** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:08 am

Hi dan i couldnt have said it better my self as we already know i didnt. LOL

And to Boggsstandard im happy that you understood what i was trying to say and your right i could have said better then i did.

dr. tyree · Post by **dr. tyree** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:12 am

IMHO, the routine was technically very impressive. It was TERRIBLY mic'ed by the show's crew, to the extent you couldn't hear the whips cracking well.

There was insufficient time allowed to set it up, while the guy who looked like he had jumped out of a Dr. Seuss book to play the glass harmonica seemed like he had forever for his deal. I deal with the sound thing all the time choreographing combats for large productions. If, for example, there is a sword fight under way on a stage 100 feet from our seats and no mics are up so we can hear the clash of blades, it tends to fall flat, through no fault of the actors.

The only thing within GD's control that could maybe have come across better on tv is a flashier costume look for himself. Of course, Scout looked like a million bucks.

So overall, I thought Gery&Scout did a great job and represented whipcracking very well. Kudos to the Deers.

Robert Duke · Post by **Robert Duke** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:53 am

Saw the clip, missed the show.
Good whipcracking act for the Deers.

One of the producers for the show called me a few months ago about performing also. They were going to come to Houston, but changed apparently. So, I suppose its in New York now, still?

All the best,
Robert Duke

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:39 am

Yeah, Robert. Things seemed to keep shifting around with that show. It seemed no one really knew where they were going or what was going on with it. They were shooting in LA at Paramount's old studios.

I have yet to see the clip because I've been in D.C. all week, (touring and scouting out Ph.D. programs for the missus. Georgetown and American U look promising,) and have dialup at home, (GACK!) Thanks to Mola Ram for posting it! I'll take a gander later this week from work.

Not surpised to hear about the miking. The sound coming off a whip is like a gunshot. It's all percussive. You not only hear it with your ears, but with the deep tissues of your body. Plus, with a large stage with a big light grid and sound baffles on either side of them, that sound gets all swallowed up. Chris "Canasta" Camp didn't have this problem so much on the Tonight Show, (the crack sounded good,) because Leno's set has a VERY low ceiling, (if you saw the ep, you'll notice that Chris was leaning way forward when he cut the flower out of the girls mouth. That was to keep the whip from fouling in the light grid. It also didn't help that Chris is a rather tall fellow!)

Gery and Scout had the same problem in the Steve Harvey show, and ended up going out into an alley between two studios and recording a couple cracks for the sound guys with all the reverb off of the surrounding buildings, (incidentally, that's also how they got the foley for the cracks in the Indy trilogy. Just took Harrison out back of Elstree and said "Do that....OK...Again.." for a couple hours.)

Gery was told when they called him about the show that had only 30-45 seconds from the time he hit the stage.

We talked for a while about how to make the act more showy, and they considered doing something else entirely for a while, as the candle snuffing takes a bit to set up. But there were a couple of producers from the Steve Harvey episode that Gery and Scout were on, and who are now on Americas Got Talent, that SPECIFICALLY wanted that trick, (the act on Harvey wasn't live, and was actually was more involved, relaxed, and they had a lot more fun with it.)

The candle snuffing bit takes about :30 when everything goes right, (meaning they get the candles lit with no problems, and there's no wind, etc. etc. etc.) They practiced to get it shorter, and considered using fewer candles, and possibly having a second "target girl," (hate that term,) out there, so Gery could cut a couple green bananas or cucumbers to show that these things ARE dangerous while Scout was getting the candles lit, but that just didn't happen due to time and logistical constraints, (and Adam is right. When Gery does the trick, it's CRACK CRACK CRACK SNUFF CRACK CRACK CRACK SNUFF. He's been working on getting it down to every OTHER crack, but that throws his rhythm off, and so at this point, he's going for consistancy rather than speed.)

Unfortunately, Borton and Bufflehead are right. The camerawork on that show is pretty bog-standard, (no offense, Bogg) and that's on top of trying to get a device that's taking only 30, 2-dimensional, still pictures per second with a default shutter speed of 60 to capture the dynamic and fluid power of piece of leather travelling at speeds upwards of 750-900 miles per hour.

Normal video of whips just doesn't come close to whips in person. Trust me, I've videotaped some of the most talented whip crackers in the world, and with all the trickery that I've learned, (with shutter speed, camera angles, framing, background compression and depth of field,) I still can't equal the effect of "being there."

There's also so much misunderstanding, misinformation, and general ignorance of the whip arts by the general public that it's difficult to impress folks if they don't understand the danger factor. Typically, most whip performers in live shows display this and talk about breaking the sound barrier, and how a bullwhip can cut like a scalpel in the hands of an experienced whip artist. But those kinds of things can't be easily conveyed in nice, neat soundbites. And certainly not in 30 seconds, (the candle snuffing bit is part of a larger, 40+ minute act.)

With the general lack of knowledge about whips by the general public, and the dominant image of the whip as a fetish tool, (when we think whips, we think Indy and Zorro. Most people think...ummm...other things...) the whip arts have fallen out of the spotlight since the cowboy series of the 50's, (currently writing an article for the "Journal of Technology and Culture" about this.)

However, steps are being taken in an attempt to correct this problem. All will become clear in about a week.

Thanks for making it this far, and if you're gonna be there, see you at Annie Oakley!

All the best,

(The "King of Parenthetical Asides" Himself,) The "Other" Dan

Robert Duke · Post by **Robert Duke** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:04 pm

Nice write up Dan. The show's executive producer is Simon Cowell of American Idol fame and of Fremantle Media. Do you think Simon is making any money?

You know this new network is starting a new show besides launching their network. They requested 2 custom made bullwhips by me and originally wanted something like 8 or 10 feet long. Knowing a little about stage performance I know that's too long. When you have a set full of equipment and people and you want a tight shot of someone cracking a whip?? I advised them to go for 6 foot whips as they are usually very adequate and also since it would be a girl cracking them. Contact me privately and I will tell you more, but since it has not launched yet, I don't want to give out a lot of details in public. Also it is going be ADULT related. You must be an adult. Its supposed to launch in Fall of 2006 with a girl superhero.
I sent the two bullwhips to Beverly Hills a week and a half ago and they said they looked Fabulous. So that's nice to hear. I may never watch any of the shows, but did ask for any promo relating to the girl superhero picture shots or whatever to be sent to me. Its kinda cool.

I think what Adam was saying about the QLX's are difficult to get every pop, let alone every pop to snuff. Is that what you meant Adam? Or just that he was hitting the candles with the right hand while the other was doing the crossovers?? I don't even think his left hand was cracking the whip at all. Cute trick. Ideally the QLX cracks are spread a good distance apart and don't come near each other. When I do the QLX (Queensland Crossovers) their are cracks at 10 and 2... not at 12. That is if one understands how the clock works, where you face and where the cracks go off in an ideal situtation. Thus, to get both whips hitting the same close vicinity with both whips CRACKING is virtually impossible.
Ask Ben Hughes, or Simon Martin or someone else who is accomplished at the QLX. Simon, do you concur on that?

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:23 pm

Robert,

Gery does all four cracks in the crossover, balanced time, with both hands, and keeps it going throughout the routine. He only targets, however, with only one of the cracks in the sequence, which would be the flick with the right hand that goes off at about 10. So, the cracking in the left hand, and the overhead crack (reverse horizontal, or whatever you call it) in the right hand are for show.

I have this video of a guy doing target cutting on some variety show back in the 50s. He had a cut assistand and a pair of white stockwhips. He would do all the cutting with his right hand, and while the assitant was getting out more targets or moving them around, he would keep the noise going by cracking with his left hand. So, in really showy targeting, it helps to have two whips going as it double the action.

I've been practicing targeting cups with both hands at the same time, with one cup for the right and another for the left, but I always seem to hit one cup before I get the other. I've also been messing around with doing a flash of multiple cracks and then trying to hit the target on the last crack, which is usually the circus crack.

-Adam

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:34 pm

Mola Ram wrote:

Heres the video
WMV file

Can you convert it to MOV or something other than WMV3 please, MS has designed that specifically to stop people not using Windows from seeing the content.

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:22 pm

Kt Templar wrote:
Mola Ram wrote:

Heres the video
WMV file

Can you convert it to MOV or something other than WMV3 please, MS has designed that specifically to stop people not using Windows from seeing the content.

http://www.archive.org/details/gerydeerandscout

Thats the actual page its hosted on.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:31 pm

Mola Ram wrote:
http://www.archive.org/details/gerydeerandscout

Thats the actual page its hosted on.

Good man, thank you very much!

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:35 pm

Kt Templar wrote:
Mola Ram wrote:
http://www.archive.org/details/gerydeerandscout

Thats the actual page its hosted on.
Good man, thank you very much!

No problem

I actually had it in 6 diffrent formats before,
but the files were taking to long to upload to the server,
so I ended up just uploading the smallest 2 videos.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:48 pm

Kt Templar wrote:Can you convert it to MOV or something other than WMV3 please, MS has designed that specifically to stop people not using Windows from seeing the content.

Why is there a Mac Windows Media player then? I know, youd don't want to corrupt yor Mac with MS software.

I'd say there's something that will play them on Linux too.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:21 pm

IndyDoc wrote:
Kt Templar wrote:Can you convert it to MOV or something other than WMV3 please, MS has designed that specifically to stop people not using Windows from seeing the content.
Why is there a Mac Windows Media player then? I know, youd don't want to corrupt yor Mac with MS software. I'd say there's something that will play them on Linux too.

There is a Windows Media Player on the Mac but it doesn't play WMV3/ Typical, they don't even support their own format. They have not released a codec for WMV3 for the Mac weird huh?

Far superior are H.264 and Divx. Small files and much better resolution.

The video is short and sweet, they really didn't have a lot of time to show off their whip skills. Good to see though.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:29 pm

Ah, ok. I guess I don't know what the difference is between wmv and wmv3 (or that there was such a thing). I'll take your word for it.

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:21 am

Thanks for the clip Mola Ram.

It wasn't flashy but impressive. I don't recall reading it but does anyone know the specs of the whips?

Best,
Herr Jones

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:39 am

The specs for the whips Gery used, Herr Jones?

Haven't seen the clip, but I've seen Gery do the trick dozens of times, (trust me. I've shot and edited a bunch of demo footage. They both got REALLY sick of "relight the candles and do it again!") and the whips he USUALLY uses, (and I can't imagine him changing oars in the middle of the stream for a live TV performance,) are 2 of Joe Strain's standard 6' Indiana Jones whips that Western Stage Props carries. One in black, and one in natural tan. 2 plaited bellies and a 12 plait overlay, 8 inch handle.

-Dan

GeryDeer · Post by **GeryDeer** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:02 am

I was pretty much silent on this topic because I've been too busy to comment on the amount of notice our 40 seconds on AGT got on these various forums.
But, there does seem to be alot of speculation about how the whole thing came about and what we chose to do on the show. In light of that, I have posted a blog that explains how the whole thing worked in pretty good detail, in case anyone's interested. You can read it at http://www.gldenterprises.net/blog.htm

PS: Since someone asked, I used two 6-ft Joe Strain Indy-style whips for the double candle routine - one black and one brown. They're about as far as you can get from a 'matched pair.' The brown one is about 10 years old and is my favorite whip. It's well broken in and is the whip that gets the most work on the family cattle farm. The black whip, which was originally brown but hand-died black because of a film project it was used in, was a whip used by Antonio Bandares in the "Mask of Zorro." You can see it in the mine elevator scene when Bandares uses it to swing across the shaft to safety. Of coure this is his 'real' whip and what he did his swinging on was the 'stunt' whip - a steel safety cable with a whip braided around it for appearances. This whip was also Halle Berry's training whip in Catwoman.

Hope this answers some of the questions. Sorry it took so long.

Gery L. Deer

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:57 pm

Gery, Welcome to Club Obi-Wan. I enjoyed reading your blog, interesting stuff. Thanks for taking the time to personally post here on this topic and answer some of the proposed questions.

On a separate note. Any chance you could post a picture of the whips you used on the show? Especially the black Joe Strain bullwhip. I was under the impression David Morgan made all the short handled bullwhips for the Mask of Zorro, well at least all the 8ft and longer bullwhips; and that Joe Strain only made the bullwhips that Alex Green and Anthony Hopkins used. I’d really like to see them.

Dan

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:07 pm

Gery,

I didn't know you used the "Zorro" whip on the show. Most of the time, you use that standard 6' Strain whip. But I guess you now have documented proof to Alex that the whip is actually seeing some use, (one of Alex's requests in selling the whip.) There you go! Live, Prime-Time TV! ;-)

Dan,

I've been a little confused on the Strain/Morgan deal on "Mask of Zorro" as well. I know that Joe made the "Zorro" whip for Alex, (though at the time it was just the "Alex Green" whip.) but the other details are a little fuzzy.

I can tell you that the whip Gery has is NOT a Morgan. The strands are the much narrower Joe Strain signature width, and the knot is done Joe Strain two-strand rather than Morgan's signature three. And there is no doubt as to the authenticity of the whip being used in Zorro, OR that Halle used it in preparation for Catwoman. That's direct from Alex.

Here's what I've pieced together. Sorry if it's redundant. Hopefully, Gery will be able to shed further light on this issue.

Hopkins, who'd known Alex from a previous film together, were talking one day, and Alex was doing some whip stuff. Sir Anthony said, "That's interesting, can I give that a try?" and he took to it so fast, and enjoyed it so much, they worked it into the training/exposition scenes in the "Lair of the Fox." Alex also contacted Joe Strain and had Joe do ANOTHER whip for Anthony as a gift, (believe it's #AG 002. #AG 001 is the 16 plait one that Paul Nolan now owns. Lucky #$@&**!) So, that's where the silver collared whip comes in.

Now, all the long whips in the first fight sequence with Hopkins/Green as Zorro, and then later at the end when Banderas uses it to escape the gold platform were Morgans. That slow, sinewy roll-out in that opening scene right before Zorro swings from one building to another is a dead giveaway as a Morgan as well

But the 6' whip Gery now has was an afterthought. The propmaster miscalculated or missed something and when they got to the mine location, they had a problem. They had the long Morgans for the wrap shots and the steel cored one for the actual swinging, but they didn't have a hero prop to pull from the belt.

Alex frantically called SOMEONE, (I've heard David Morgan, but because of the whip, it could also have been Mark Allen or Joe himself,) and ordered a 6' whip. In the frantic pace, a communication error occured and it arrived in natural tan. It was quickly re-routed to Vegas so Mark could give it a fast dye job, and sent back for production.

The thing here is, it WASN'T the propmaster calling to get the whip. It was Alex himself. Alex paid for it out of his own pocket. Therefore, while Dave Morgan supplied the whips to the production, this one likely wasn't, as it was Alex that made the call, not the propmaster. As he was already in process of, or was planning to order another of the "Alex Green" whips for Sir Anthony, why wouldn't he call Joe Strain?

It is because of this confusion that I made the claim about a year ago that Joseph Strain had WORKED FOR David Morgan early in his whip making career. I knew that David supplied the whips for Zorro, but the whips I'd seen from the film were obviously Joe Strain's work. They're close geographically, and Joe certainly credits David above others for helping him get started. I assumed, Joe made them and Dave sold them, and you know what assuming get's you ;-)

I was corrected by people here who spoke to directly to David and Joe themselves. While Strain learned a lot FROM David, it is my understanding now that he never worked FOR him.

So that's the story as I understand it, and certainly clears up a lot of things. Bear in mind, however. This is speculation pieced together from the facts I have. I could be way off here. Gery? You want to shoot holes in my pet theories now? ;-)

-"The Other Dan"

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:08 pm

Thanks Dan, I had a feeling that might have been the situation, or something similar. I don’t have any doubts that Joe made Gery’s Zorro bullwhip. I do enjoy hearing the stories and seeing pictures behind this sort of stuff though

From what I understand those kinds of situations do pop up in the film industry from time to time and though its just speculations on our part, it makes sense that it would have been easier for Alex to call up Mark and have WSP send out one of there 6ft Indy whips out to production ASAP, rather then special order another black bullwhip from David which would have A. cost more and B. taken longer to get to the set or location. Not to mention Alex likes a lighter whip then David makes.

Dan

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