Can I ruin my EC Whip if I don't use pecard etc. ?

IndianaMike · Post by **IndianaMike** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 4:43 pm

Why is pecard so important ? please tell me the disadvantages when I don't use leather (creams.)

The_Edge · Post by **The_Edge** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 5:08 pm

Can I ruin my EC Whip if I don't use ecard etc. ?

Is this a trick question?

Seriously, from DM's website:

3. Leather dressing is important. A dry whip loses its strength, and one with the wrong dressing may lose strength and/or stretch out of shape. Do not dress a whip with tallow, neatsfoot oil, or any light oils. We recommend Pecard Leather Dressing. Whips to be stored should be kept in light cool conditions, and given a thin coat of Pecard Dressing every six months. Whips in use may be dressed somewhat more often. Whips used in hot, dry, or dusty conditions, and whips used in the wet, may need frequent dressing. Falls on whips last better if kept well dressed at all times.

http://www.davidmorgan.com/whipcare.htm ... ence=37089

-Kyle

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 5:10 pm

Well leather breaks down. If you refuse to condition the leather it will dry up. It's a matter of when and not if. The natural oils in the leather and from the tanning process will dissipate. The leather will then dry up, become brittle and your investment gone. It doesn't matter whether it's a whip, jacket, boots, etc. you will have degradation. I am just curious, why the question?

IndianaMike · Post by **IndianaMike** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 5:13 pm

I knew that someone would think its a trick question ;-)
No, I really wanted to know because I have no idea of careing for a whip.

thanks

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Thu Sep 05, 2002 11:43 am

I think Kyle once on a similar thread posted this reply to a very similar question.... should you put oil in your car's engine?
Not to get too graphic, but yeah, leather was once part of a living thing. And we all know what happens when animals die, they decay, break-down, rot, decompose. Leather needs to be treated to keep it's flexibility and it's "moisture." Why do old leather jackets get all flakey and "distressed" looking?

But whips untreated will end up doing the same thing. And also remember, you don't crack your jacket at 700+ mph, that will greatly take it's toll on a whip after awhile if not treated. Just like driving a car with low oil or no oil, eventually you end up with a 5000 pound paperweight...

IndianaMike · Post by **IndianaMike** » Thu Sep 05, 2002 4:44 pm

OK, I don't know by myself why I've asked such a silly question.

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 8:47 am

No, it's not a silly question. It's just that we all want our whips to stay in good shape, and everyone elses too. How else can I crack someone else's whip at a summit if it's not taken care of?

Hope you didn't take any of this as an attack. We have two camps on distressing vs. natural distressing and caring for your gear. But there's only one camp for whips, treat 'em.
Hope I didn't go too far getting my point across. We argue enough around here about crown heights and where pleats are measured from...

IndianaMike · Post by **IndianaMike** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 9:53 am

great to hear that it wasn't a silly question , so hears my next

No really, how long does it take that the whip looks like the one in the movies ? Is it a long aging progress. And did they put fullers earth on it because in TOD the whip looks very dirty and kind of greyish. Can I speed up the aging progress ?

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 10:12 am

[quote="IndianaMike"]great to hear that it wasn't a silly question , so hears my next

No really, how long does it take that the whip looks like the one in the movies ? Is it a long aging progress. And didey put fullrs earth on it because in TOD the whip loks very dirty and kind of greyish. Can I speed up the aging progress ?
quote]

OK, dirt, sand, mud and Fullers Earth would fall into that category as being very bad for a whip. It will get in between each lace of the whip and slowly cause abrasion in between each lace. It's important to have laces to lay tight in between each other. With sand particles, they act like tiny diamonds that will eat up your whip.

Your natural hide whip will probably turn into a nice mahogony patina color within a 6 month timeframe. It depends on the use. The more use you have, the quicker it will become more supple and darker with exposur from the outside. My recommendation is regularly put Pecards on the fall. You don't want that piece to dry out. And make sure to dress the thong of the whip with Pecards when it appears to be drying. Once every 6 months should be OK for the thong. But since this is a new whip, the new fresh hides tend to dry out more so I perhaps do it monthly on the new whips. But again, very small amounts go a long way.

I would avoid heat of any kind to darken your whip. Please don't do that. If you want to darken your whip and just can't absolutely put up with the nice natural blonde color and seeing it transform to a beautiful mahogony color in a natural way. Well you can try Pecards new product that has a brown tint to it. Look for a post done by KyleS that shows a new piece of leather treated with the regular Pecards and the new brown tinted version.

Are you practicing your whipping? Or are you more interested in seeing how it looks on your belt?

-Sergei

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 11:06 am

Minnesota_Jones wrote:No, it's not a silly question. It's just that we all want our whips to stay in good shape...

Hey, MN_Jones, do I dare bring up the Vegetable Oil story?

I remember Sebastian recommended that you 1.) Clean the dirt off with soapy water, 2.) Dry, 3.) Apply Saddle Soap, 4.) Dry, 5.)Apply Bees Wax or Pecards. And, you do it after every pratice session.

Sombody asked about Neatsfoot oil he said, "We wax our whips. Not oil them."

He may wish to comment or add something to that but that was the care advise as I understood it from the summit.

Now, here's a question. In ROTLA, when Indy reaches for his whip after tossing Marion into the hay cart, in the close up shot the whip seems to swing back and forth almost like a towel might. Is this because the has been well used and cared for? Would a whip get this "loose"?

Just wondering,
Pyro

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 11:26 am

Pyroxene wrote:
Minnesota_Jones wrote:No, it's not a silly question. It's just that we all want our whips to stay in good shape...
Sombody asked about Neatsfoot oil he said, "We wax our whips. Not oil them."

Now, here's a question. In ROTLA, when Indy reaches for his whip after tossing Marion into the hay cart, in the close up shot the whip seems to swing back and forth almost like a towel might. Is this because the has been well used and cared for? Would a whip get this "loose"?

Just wondering,
Pyro

Neatsfoot oil! Avoid it like the plague. I have heard horror stories that this oil will just disintegrate the whip. The leather fibers get destroyed by the oil. Neatsfoot maybe good for saddles and general tack gear. But it's well known that neastsfoot is extremely bad for whips.

As far as the whip getting real loose. Yes, some of mine are that way. Like a towel. And frankly, I really don't care for them being that loose. I find that I have less control in direction with the tension in the junction area of the thong is loose.

-Sergei

IndianaMike · Post by **IndianaMike** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:52 pm

well, I'm very interested in cracking a whip. The only thing is that I have to search for a place to crack. Its hard to find a place where I live. There is no person who could explain me how to crack and I don't know if whipcracking books are useful enough. I tried it once and I hit myself badly on my back. Its hard to get whip videos in Germany. If somebody would see you cracking a whip, they would laugh( where I live). Whipcracking is not very popular in Germany, I think.

PS: do you always wear eyeprotection ?

regards. Michael

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 6:21 pm

IndianaMike wrote:well, I'm very interested in cracking a whip. The only thing is that I have to search for a place to crack. Its hard to find a place where I live. There is no person who could explain me how to crack and I don't know if whipcracking books are useful enough. I tried it once and I hit myself badly on my back. Its hard to get whip videos in Germany. If somebody would see you cracking a whip, they would laugh( where I live). Whipcracking is not very popular in Germany, I think.

PS: do you always wear eyeprotection ?

regards. Michael

Starting out, it's important to wear eye protection. Also, wearing your Fedora or any wide brimmed hat will protect your ears, head and face. It is surprising how much a hat really helps. I'm surprised you have not heard of any customs in Germany that use the whip. Below is an excerpt of an article that I kept, that mentions some German customs.

"In Southern Germany whip cracking has been practiced at Shrovetide
since the Middle Ages to generate noise and used besides other instruments like bells, rattles and drums to contrast the following Lent, a period of silence and contemplation. The popular conception that the rite of noise generation has pagan roots and was originally practiced in order to cast out the winter demons has not yet been proved scientifically (Mezger 1991). In Upper Bavaria Aperschnalzen, a distinguished kind of whip cracking is celebrated annually as a competition (Kapfhammer 1977), and was first demonstrated worldwide in 1972 at the open ceremony of the Olympic Games in Munich. – In Switzerland whip cracking is used traditionally in some alpine valleys for communication purposes and applied besides cow-bells and alp horns, while in some central areas it is practiced at St. Nicholas’ Day in a particular, rhythmic manner."

-Sergei

IndianaMike · Post by **IndianaMike** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 6:32 pm

well, I didn't know that. Nice to hear that whips are popular in German too.
But the first thing I do is to buy pecard.Should I use especially a cream for whips or can I use a cream for all kinds of leather.

mike

WhipEnth · Post by **WhipEnth** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:41 pm

Ok, to clear up a few comments I made at the Texs summit,
Here is how I take care of my whips.

First and foremost, don't crack them on gravel, sand, concrete or any other abrasive surface. keep tot he grass if you can. Or, roll out a tarp, old carpet, astro turf, anything you can use that will help protect the whips from abrasive damage.
2) try not to muscle your whip, while loud deafing cracks seem cool, it puts more strain on your whip than is really nesscesary. let's face it, you paid quite a bit for a good whip and you want it to last as long as you can.
3) Ok, practice 9or showing off) is over and it's time to clean up. use a clean cloth towel and wipe your whip down, starting at the handle and moving to the tip. why? the cracking end will get the dirtiest and you don't want to move that dirt further down towards the handle.
next, look over your whip carefully for section that have been abraded, or bits of sand, grass, whatever that might be caught in the plaiting (braiding). You might need a pair of tweezers to remove particles.
if you got your whip really dirty, you might want to use another clean, damp cloth and a little saddle soap to clean the leather. Read the direction on the saddle soap. You don't dunk your whip in the water. Damp cloth and a little saddle soap will work up a nice lather. Buff off the white powder when it dries. (it takes the dirt with it)
Finally, use a little leather dressing (whip wax). a dap on your hands and again work it into the whip startign above the handle and progressing towards the tip. You'll need to get another dab of wax from time to time and pay special attention to the fall. Add a little more wax as it take most of the strain of cracking. The whip shouldn't feel really greasy but a little is ok. To much wax can trap dirt and grime and reduce the overall beauty of your whip. (it shoudn't be building up between strands)
Set the whip aside for an hour or two (out of the sun) and let it absorb the food it needs from the wax. If the fall is dry or 'furring', apply a little more wax.
After a bit of time to absorb what it needs, wipe of any excess wax with another clean towel. (it won't be clean after that) Again, from handle to tip.
You will never get your whip as clean as the day it was made, so don't try. Over cleaning can dry out the leather quickly.
The key here is moderation, both in cracking power and maintenence. Unless you use your whip a lot you generally don't need to wax them often, nor every time you use them. Wipe them down each time, but unless they are drying out, a bit of wax every couple of months should do you.
Don't panic if your whip gets wet, set it aside out of the sun in it's relaxed coils or hang it from it's wrist strap (if it has one). If you've taken good care of your whip and waxed it when it needed it, a little water won't hurt it much. The imprtant part is to not let it form a a kink when it dries or you'll need to roll the thong using a board and some excess hide. A kink or crimp in the whip will cause it to roll improperly and a better chance of it coming back and hitting you.
I hope that helps.

Smiles,
Seb~

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 12:04 am

Sebastion,
You have written quite a tutorial. All you whipsters that are reading, copy the above post, print it and read this religiously. This is how you take care of a whip that will make it last. I will make sure that this gets included in the main gear section, under the whip faq. I'm especially inspired since I spent about 2 hours cleaning, waxing, replacing falls and crackers, fixing knots, etc. to my whip collection today.

-Sergei

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 9:21 am

This tutorial would be something good to keep in your whip bag so you can take it where ever you go.

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 9:46 am

Pyroxene wrote:Hey, MN_Jones, do I dare bring up the Vegetable Oil story?

NO, DON'T! Ok, I'll tell. Here's what N O T do to with your whip, unless you want to destroy it... Years ago (back in high school) I purchased a 12 foot swivel-handle bullwhip. It was my pride and joy. Didn't know how to care for it and didn't know how to crack it, but it sure looked cool on my gunbelt! A couple years later, I wanted to care for it as it was looking pretty dry hanging on a nail in my room (yes, a nail, and I know that's bad too....) so I went to a shoe shop and inquired about leather care. Somehow "oil" came up. I don't know where I got the idea planted in my head, but I poured a bottle of WESSON OIL into a pan and SOAKED my whip in it for a day or so. Needless to say, bad. Very bad indeed.
The whip was "greasy" with "wessonality!"

And it wouldn't come off. After a while being stored in a dark and musty basement (another no-no) it finally dried, and cracked, and died a horrible death. I buried it in the backyard with a neighbor playing taps on his horn. (actually I just tossed it in the trash but a funeral sounds better...

)

So that's a lot of great tips if you want to kill your whip in a totally evil and cruel way. And remember that whip in the ToD picture you posted, like the hats, jackets, etc the whips were probably "movie distressed" too, not caring how long they lasted and just wanted them to look good for the camara. And we all know "movie distressing" is bad for keeping gear in good shape. Especially whips. Here endith my story. Enjoy.