Ravenwood's Hat

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:24 pm

I just wanted to clear up a point for my own understanding.

Is the hat that Indy wears supposed to be the same one that Abner Ravenwood (Fedora) placed on his head as a boy in "Last Crusade"?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:31 pm

That's what I originally thought, but there are two camps of thought on the subject....it's either the hat reblocked and worn all those been years, or just started him on the road, and the 'crown' had essentially passed from 'Fedora' to Indy with that one gesture. Your choice. Regards. Michaelson

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:30 pm

So "Fedora" in LC is supposed to be Abner Ravenwood?

English Adventurer · Post by **English Adventurer** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:39 pm

So "Fedora" in LC is supposed to be Abner Ravenwood?

Uh oh, here we go again.............

Ian

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:43 pm

Did I open a can of worms?

I never liked LC that much, so I never gave it much thought. But it's interesting to think that could be Abner.

Colby · Post by **Colby** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:55 pm

I think I read somewhere that the earlier scripts had "Fedora" as Abner but they changed it.

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:01 pm

Fedora was originally 'Abner' in the script, but they changed it later. Some folks still like to think of Fedora as Abner Ravenwood, me being one of them, but the choice (as they say) is yours.

I always thought the passing of the hat was purely symbolic, rather than that hat being 'the' hat, but Spielberg maybe thought differently...

Colby · Post by **Colby** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:04 pm

I also consider "Fedora" as Abner Ravenwood.

It is dissapointing that they would do such a thing as change that

jjkillin · Post by **jjkillin** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:07 pm

ob1al wrote: I always thought the passing of the hat was purely symbolic, rather than that hat being 'the' hat, but Spielberg maybe thought differently...

Well, I'm of the belief that if Spielberg wanted it to be "the hat", they would have actually used "a hat" (for what it's worth). But then again, Luke Skywalker's [Anakin's] lightsaber changes from ANH to ESB (but that's two different movies).

-James

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:13 pm

Well I suppose all they really did was change the name in the script, but it doesn't mean they decided it wasn't Abner...after all, he's never given a name in the movie so regardless of what the script called him, he can still be Abner.

The young Indy series would have been much better if they had set the episodes with young Indy was following Abner on his relic-hunting adventures and 'learning his trade' along the way IMO! But I digress...

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:19 pm

I think it's totally plausible that it's "the hat" despite how different it looks. Sure he would have grown, but when it's placed on his head they never show if it actually fit or not, which it probably didn't. And, just look at the miracles our own Fedora can work with old hats. several years and a few reblocks... sure, that cowboy-looking thing could be "the hat". Maybe that's part of the reason it was too tall and never quite looked like a fedora. Maybe Indy just had reblocked and the ribbon changed to suit the times/his own tastes. Maybe it was never a fedora at all!

(can of worms, part II)

By the way, where are you guys getting the Indy font to write your john Handcocks on your posts? That's cool.

PropReplicator · Post by **PropReplicator** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:52 pm

I, for one, am glad that "Fedora" isn't Abner. I have come to think of Abner as a kind man who has a love and respect for history, especially since he was a major mentor for Indy and passed that love and sense of respect down to him. "Fedora" showed that he was only after the money.

Wayne

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:14 pm

I think that's the reason Steven and George also decided not to call him Abner Ravenwood. :junior: -IJ

Kentucky Mason · Post by **Kentucky Mason** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:50 pm

You know I recall reading in the novelization of Raiders a great deal about Indy's hat. In the novelization Indy lost his "lucky hat" after departing the Bantu Wind and riding to Goose Step Island (is that a bad name for a new Dizney attraction...) We never did see the hat returned to Indy (lest I spark the Brown hat Gray hat debate again). I always thought a great end to a teaser for Indy 4 would have Indy loosing his hat and going to HJ and seeing him purchase a new Poet and then hand shaping it himself.

Ripper · Post by **Ripper** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:13 am

That wouldnt work...they would just peg him as a "fan" and then give him bad service. Not to mention the hit and miss taper............If he goes anywhere for a hat , he needs to go to Fedoras........

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:54 am

Ravenwood or not, This man is somone the Indy character decided to emulate in a multitude of ways.

I suppose Spielberg hat set out making those boyscout scenes with that as the idea.

this guy was idalized by Indy... maybe not at first. Though if this is the case, to back it up they should have had some stories with Ravenwood to show their connection.

Too bad there is not much info on the subject.

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:46 am

PropReplicator wrote:I, for one, am glad that "Fedora" isn't Abner. I have come to think of Abner as a kind man who has a love and respect for history, especially since he was a major mentor for Indy and passed that love and sense of respect down to him. "Fedora" showed that he was only after the money.

Wayne

I see where you are coming from Wayne, and agree to an extent, but remember Indy went after a few relics himself for the love of money - remember that job he did for Lao Che? That's not so different to Abner getting the cross for 'Panama'. And in TOD, Indy was mostly interested in 'Fortune & Glory' before deciding to rescue the kids from the mines.

Just because Abner did the occassional 'bread and butter' job for private clients doesn't mean he didn't have an equal respect for history and artifacts.

They could have used this as a running theme for young Indy's adventures with Abner - 'Remember the Cross of Coranado?' (or something like that...). Or maybe a subplot could have been to retrieve the cross and track down Panama, who always seemed to alude Indy and Abner, as the moved from place to place and encountered new advantures along the way...

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:07 pm

Same hat? dont think so.....

NO WAY JOSE

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:11 pm

Why do you say that, Indianafred?

: Regards. Michaelson

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:36 pm

I have always tought of it, that it only was the gesture, like you wrote Mickaelson.
When "abner" passed over his fedora, indy know at an instance what he was going to dedicate his life to and how he was going to be dressed up.
It changed his life literally

I have hard to beleive that the fedora indy wears as a grown up, is the very same fedora he was given 1912

But then again who knows?

Regards
Fred

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:38 pm

Very good. I was just curious, as your last line seemed like a strong thought on your part, and was just wondering why. We're on the 'same page', so to speak.

Regards. Michaelson

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:56 pm

But i do think that indy saved "abners" fedora all those years only as a symbol of his long gone mentor, even if he didnt intend to wear it.

Another strong thought

Regards
Fred

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:19 pm

Intersting opinions, gentlemen. I too think the giving the hat to Indy is a symbolic act, a preview of things to come, if you will. On the other hand, it's not like Indy figures "Hey! That cool tomb robber guy gave me a hat! From his day on, I will wear one too and make it my trademark!" Everybody wore a hat in those days - nothing special there...

If he got a quality fur felt fedora from Abner in 1912, who's to say he didn't cherish that particular lid an have it reblocked every once in a while?

I'm all for the Abner theory! It makes sense, in some weird way... I can see Wayne's point, but then again... the antiquarian outlook in those days differ pretty much from our view of things. "Archaeology" in practice meant "to remove historically interesting and/or valuable items from their respective sub-par cultures/homelands and put them on display where white folk can see them" Selling a couple of artifacts to get a ticket to Marrakech could very well have happened...
In this sense, both "Abner" and Indy are explorers/archaeologists in a very typical way for their era...

VP · Post by VP » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:54 am

Shawnkara wrote:By the way, where are you guys getting the Indy font to write your john Handcocks on your posts? That's cool.

http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/%7Ee9125985/I ... Fedora.zip

http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/%7Ee9125985/I ... enture.zip

http://www.theindyexperience.com/Zips/Safari_Fonts.zip

JAN · Post by **JAN** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:04 pm

I agree on the "Abner-theory".

As I see it we shall as far as LC (the battle on the boat for the Cross of Corenado) before we see any sign of Indy thinking of anything else than
selling of the artefacts he snach from varios places.

Even Harrison called him "a graverobber", and he should know as he blew life to the figure.

So Indy was never supposed to be a knight in shinning armour, but rather a gifted bum who was seeking fortune and glory.

And I see Fedora/Abner the same way (in his younger days at least).

Best regards

JAN

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:24 pm

In Abner's case, probably more so, as the laws for the protection of antiquities were practically non existant prior to 1920...Abner's heyday in the field. Heck, there was an archaeologist that would have been Abners peer who used dynamite to excavate. He came within an eyelash of blasting off the head of the Sphynx to see if there was a hidden chamber in the body. Fortunately, the charge misfired, and he changed his mind. So, compared to Abner, Indy was literally a babe in the woods in terms of field work as known by folks like Ravenwood and his group. Regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:57 pm

Well, that's ONE way to go fishing, I suppose.

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:59 pm

Oh, that's STILL done...to HECK with the laws to protect antiquities, or wildlife...er...never mind.

Regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:07 pm

And think... they're already cooked by the time they hit the ground!

$\:D/$ 8-[

bink