Club Obi Wan

My apoligies for being absent for so long on this board, I do enjoy dropping in now and then though to see what my old friends are up to! Received my first Wested late last year and decided it was just too darn pretty to distress, I just couldn't do it! I was thinking about possibly getting a U S Wings Cowhide jacket as a second jacket representing a more worn look. Wondering if any of you "Indy's" ouy there have one of these jackets and how do you like it? Are their sizes pretty accurate? It's a pretty "stiff" jacket isn't it? What if any other jacket on the market in your estimate, is the best option for a ready made "distressed" Indy jacket? Any input is welcome.

M.L. Jones

Wings, solid, well made jackets. Not totally screen accurate, but as close to a TofD jacket made to date, in my opinion. Sizing? Well, they're a bit on the large size in this chart, so if you wear a size 42-44, go with a large rather than they're suggested XL size. You'll get lost in the XL. Once you get hold of one that fits, it will serve you well for years to come, and they're not all that stiff right out of the box. The pre-distressed is actually pretty limber from the get/go. Good jackets.. a bit pricey compared to Wested jackets, but still, a good value over the long haul. Regards. Michaelson

I agree on the USWings. Built like a tank to take abuse. Here's a pic of my USWings Goathide and Distressed Cow, the cow (on the left) is the lighter color of the two. Just be forwarned, it's a thick, heavy leather. Perfect for winter time, but I wore the Cow to a Convention once and I was dying. Lamb is much better for summerwear. But that Cow is a sweet jacket.

These gents are right-the Wings distressed cowhide is a WONDERFUL jacket. I've owned two or three of them (I can't remember exactly how many I've owned, actually-that's either a sign of memory loss or having owned too many jackets )....anywho, I love how well made the Wings jackets are. Good stuff.

Later!
Indydawg

Hi...All the raves about the US Wings jacket are encouraging. I've never owned one myself but am considering it. Question: How different is the "old" Cooper jacket US Wings formerlly subcontracted to from the the "in house" Indy jacket they now do?

Question: How different is the "old" Cooper jacket US Wings formerlly subcontracted to from the the "in house" Indy jacket they now do?

Do a search of the US Wings jackets here. You will find that Wings
does not actually make the jackets "on site" as you might think. There is
another company that makes the Indy jacket for Wings. A current gearhead
posted his experience with the current Wings Indy jacket, with his
own contact with Wings and what happened to him when he contacted
Wings with a few quetions about their Indy jackets. Wings own customer
service reps told this gearhead that the jackets where made "off site",
and that any questions should go to that vendor.

Cooper used to make the Indy jackets for Wings, which were actually called
the "Pioneer" jacket. Wings does not make the Indy jacket that they
sell on their website. The current Wings Indy jackets are contracted
out to an outside vendor. Its just like the A-2 jackets and other jackets that
they sell. They are made by companies like Averix and others. Cooper
used to make the Indy (Pioneer) jackets for Wings, but Cooper no longer makes the
Pioneer jacket, so Wings can't sell it, so they looked for another vendor
to make it.

If you do a search for US Wings Indy jackets on this site, you will see
that the latest versions of this jacket fall way off of the Cooper jackets
that they used to sell. The current versions have problems with their
hems coming loose, and falling down below the bottom of the jacket,
and the sleeves doing the same thing, where the glue that supposed to
hold the hems in place coming loose and hanging down.

The formally mentioned gearhead that purchased his Indy
jacket from Wings asked these very questions of Wings. When this
gearhead asked a few questions about the make of the jacket, the
person on the phone from Wings did not know the answers to the
questions, and refered this gearhead to the vendor that was making
the jackets for Wings.

Wings customer service has really gone downhill in the last year or
so. If you look up US Wings on the BBB, you will see that they have
quite a few unanswered complaints against them for customer service
and return issues.

If you want to confirm this information for yourself, you can contact
Wings, and ask where their Indy jackets are made for yourself. The
person you get on the phone will tell you the same thing. That the jackets
are not made "in house", but are actually made offsite by someone else.

If you want an Indy jacket that is custom made for you only, and is made
by the same person that made the jackets for the movies, and is cheaper
than any other immitation Indy jacket on the market, then you have to by
a Wested.

If you want an inferior copy, with a bunch of hassles if you have a
problem, with a price tag of about 30 percent more than an real Wested,
and god forbid if you take the tag off the jacket, and you can
no longer return it for an exchange or refund, and you like a one size
fits many jacket, then by all means buy a Wings jacket.

Wings used to sell a great version of the Indy jacket. And all the people,
including myself, who have a Cooper version of the Indy (Pioneer) jacket
are talking about that actual jacket. But if you contact any of the people
who have a current issue Wings version of their Indy jacket, and not one that
is an older version, will tell you that these jackets fall way short of the
old versions.

I don't mean to sound cruel, but everyone who has told you about their
great Wings Indy jacket are all people who owned one from years past,
that were actually Cooper made jackets, and not a current issue Wings
issued jackets.

US Wings has had many problems recently with quality issues, and
customer service issues. If you want to look past that, thats up to
you. I hope you have better luck than the recent people who have
ordered a Wings Indy jacket.

Flathead

That's a great response, Flathead. Whenever I hear of people talking about their Wings jackets, I forget that they are usually reffering to the older jackets, too. It's good to be reminded of these things from time to time. And even though no company has an absolute perfect service record (there's at least one in every crowd, it seems) you really can't go wrong with Wested. I, for one, have no reason to shop for my leather jackets anywhere else than Wested.

bink

M.L. Jones wrote:My apoligies for being absent for so long on this board, I do enjoy dropping in now and then though to see what my old friends are up to! Received my first Wested late last year and decided it was just too darn pretty to distress, I just couldn't do it! I was thinking about possibly getting a U S Wings Cowhide jacket as a second jacket representing a more worn look. Wondering if any of you "Indy's" ouy there have one of these jackets and how do you like it? Are their sizes pretty accurate? It's a pretty "stiff" jacket isn't it? What if any other jacket on the market in your estimate, is the best option for a ready made "distressed" Indy jacket? Any input is welcome.

ML, if you've gone through the Wested experience once, and like their work... why aren't you buying one of their pre-distressed models, for example, rather than paying more for a US-made one

Michaelson...you seem happy with your US Wings jackets, wondering if they are older jackets? Flathead, your comments regarding US Wings recent quality and service are well taken, how a company deals with customer problems regarding it's products is of paramount importance. Indy Irwin, yes you have a good point there. I AM satisfied with my 1st Wested jacket...so why not give them another go? I guess I was just interested in learning more about any other options for an "aged" new jacket. Any comments on the current Wested Pre-Distressed leather, they only have one type of leather they will do this with, correct? Does anyone know if Wested keeps customers measurements from previous jacket orders on file so they can reorder with the same sizing?

Many thanks for all of the detailed answers..as usual, Flathead is a font 9sic?) of wisdom and data! I actually called Cooper and they confirmed that they no longer made the jacket for US Wings. One wonders what it might take to get them to make a few from time to time? Cheers--Feng

FLATHEAD wrote:

If you want an inferior copy, with a bunch of hassles if you have a problem, with a price tag of about 30 percent more than an real Wested, and god forbid if you take the tag off the jacket, and you can no longer return it for an exchange or refund, and you like a one size fits many jacket, then by all means buy a Wings jacket.

Flathead

I wanted to exchange a #44 A2 Horsehide for a size #42. It was about 2 months after their 30 day return policy. I had never even worn the jacket outside since I bought the jacket in May and lost 15 lbs during the begining of the summer. US Wings was adamant about sticking to their return policy. They congratulated me on my weight loss and said they would sell me another jacket that fit better. I told them all future purchases would be from Wested.

Actually, M.L., mine have been the newer jackets, and on the contrary, Wings told me they DO make their own jackets now. I also contend that my comparison of the new against the old are exactly opposite as posted above, as most of the Cooper jackets details are wrong, and always WERE wrong. The newer jackets have the corrected items (thought still not perfect, MUCH more screen accurate than any of the Cooper offerings)...but then that's me and MY opinion, and should be taken as such. Cooper has been their jacket maker for years, but due to a riff between Wings and Cooper, CEO David Hack built their own production line inhouse in Stow, Ohio, and began turning out jackets under their own hand 2 years ago. Unfortunately, last year during the HUGE rain storms they had in Northern Ohio, the shop was completely flooded, destroying most of the production equipment, as well as computers and computer files, etc. It has taken them a LONG time to get things back in shape, and they had to depend on subcontractors to pick up the slack as they get things back on track. But, the Indy jacket is/was made on site at Wings.

As to their customer service, I have NO clue what has happened there. I can not add anything to what has already been stated so clearly by Flathead. When dealing with David Hack directly, there is a seamless transaction. Of their jackets...once you get one that fits and is in good shape, you'll have it until you either give up the ghost, or the jacket disinegrates. They're just GREAT jackets...it's the trip GETTING that perfect Wings jacket is the rocky road. I can not add anything new at this time. In attempts to contact David directly regarding jackets, unless he generates the initial contact, his staff replies to all emails now, and most replies are generic in nature.

Regards. Michaelson

If you do a search for the Pioneer jacket, there are still a few of these
Cooper made jackets floating around.

After I bought my Wings jacket three years ago, I needed to have the
sleeves shortened by about an inch or so. I contacted Wings, and their
own customer service rep sent me to Cooper to get it fixed, because thats
were they got the jackets at that time.

So, I found out that this Cooper jacket was called the Pioneer, and
there were other places that sold this same Pioneer jacket for about
a hundred bucks LESS than Wings!

I found it at a bunch of places that were selling it for about $249.00, and
it came in all the different leathers that Wings was offering too.

I actually was looking for another one not too long ago, and one of the
places that still had it on their website said that since Cooper is not making
this jacket any longer, that they were getting harder and harder to come
by, and that he was sold out of the jacket. He offered me a 20 percent
discount on any other jacket he had, but I didn't want any of the other
ones that he had, which was too bad, because he was a really helpful
guy. He even said he talked to Neil Cooper, and told him that there
were alot of people asking for this jacket, and that they should make it
again as it would sell very well.

U.S. Calvalry has a few of these jackets left, and they are selling for
about 40 to 50 bucks less than Wings. As a matter of fact, if you look
at the this picture:
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?p ... =3&pos=112
it even has a Cooper tag in it!

Here is another vendor that says they still have a few:
http://www.leathercompany.com/cgi/display.cgi?bomber

I guess because Cooper makes so many other high volume selling
jackets, like their A-2, that they don't need to make these anymore.

Its a shame too. The old Cooper jackets, which also were the ones that
Disney sold years ago, were very good jackets.

I wanted to exchange a #44 A2 Horsehide for a size #42. It was about 2 months after their 30 day return policy. I had never even worn the jacket outside since I bought the jacket in May and lost 15 lbs during the begining of the summer. US Wings was adamant about sticking to their return policy. They congratulated me on my weight loss and said they would sell me another jacket that fit better. I told them all future purchases would be from Wested

This is one of the reasons for Wings bad BBB reports. This is also why
Wested and places similar, will always get repeat customers. Because
Wested tries hard to make their customers happy!

I could see if you had worn the jacket, and it could not be sold as new
anymore, then they would have a valid point.

But they could have easily said for you to send the jacket back, they
could have looked it over, and desided then if you could have traded
the jacket for one of a different size to keep you a happy customer.

I know Wested does this. Aero Leather of Scotland does this. Even
Eastman Leather in England will do this as long as the jacket is in new,
sellable condition.

Save yourself some money, and get an accurate copy of an Indy jacket,
and get a Wested. Not only that, but you will be saving yourself alot
of hassles along the way...

Flathead

on the contrary, Wings told me they DO make their own jackets now

But, the Indy jacket is/was made on site at Wings.

Now this is really odd. Just to settle my own curiosity, I called them today
to ask about their Indy jackets, and where they were made.

The person on the phone told me that they were not made at the same
place as where they sell them from.

I took this as they do not make them inhouse, but the jackets are made
offsite of Wings.

Wings is probably having someone make the jackets for them, and to
the specs that Wings wants, and they may consider that "in-house".

But the woman I talked to today said they did not make any of their
own jackets. Not the A-2's, not the B-3's, and not the Indy jackets.

This is another reason to stay away from these people. One hand does
not know what the other hand is doing.

When dealing with David Hack directly, there is a seamless transaction...

Now I can agree with this statement 100 percent. When I bought my
jacket 3 years ago, I dealt with the man himself, and my very first
transaction with Wings was great. It was the two others that I tried, and
got the goofy customer service reps, that turned me off.

Flathead

I can remember one other person there beside Sarge that was really
good with any questions and items pertaining to Wings.

I used to get this person answering my e-mails when Sarge was not
around. I think his name was Mike, and he was good.

This was during my initial contact with Wings, prior to me buying the
jacket from them. This guy, other than Sarge was great.

And just to answer a question I got as a pm from someone, I actually
saw IndyDawgs "Old Cow" Wings jacket that he posted links to pictures
of his jacket on the Indy Fan forum about 3 and a half years ago.

I saw that jacket, and it was pre-distressed, and looked great! He had
a great write-up on it, and the pictures were great too.

Now thats when Wings had great customer service...

Flathead

I used to own the prototype of the Old Cow Wings jacket, and it's probably one of my favorites of the Wings jackets...3rd in line. First, the VIP, second, Goat, and third, Old Cow. It had a definite reddish cast to it, but unlike the 'roo, it wasn't all that unacceptable.

Wish their dang medium sizing had 25 inch sleeves, though!! :evil: Medium sizing fits perfectly otherwise! Oh well. Regards. Michaelson

Thanks you all for your revealing comments regarding your experiences with US Wings. When one does business with a company by mail order, customer service is so very importiant. Peter B. at Wested seems to know this, and I think tries very hard to accomodate his customers. It seems as though US Wings is having trouble in this department and unfortunately will lose business because of this. Maybe US Wings has so many other products for sale that they cannot spend as much time "specializing" on one or two products as can Wested in England. It is truly a shame though because it seems to me that with a little more service effort on their behalf, Wings could do very well selling their Indy jackets. I am seriously thinking that Wested will get repeat business from me, would love to support a U.S. business, but not if they don't treat me right.

M.L. Jones

I can understand that. If an Aussie company tried making the jackets, I would certainly give them a look. At the end of the day, however, the thing that always swings me is that, hey, it's Wested; it's Peter bloody Botwright; it's the guy who made thejacket.

That's just such a compelling thing to me... and I'm not even a screen-accurate type of person (otherwise I wouldn't have gone with the russet-toned horsehide!); I just love the history and backstory to the people behind my jacket.