Two and a half years ago I was a full-time student working part-time and supporting a wife and two kids. Others have been in this same boat too, so I'm sure you'll understand how difficult it can be to put aside any money at all. I received a bonus at work that I set aside as my "jacket money". I had to dip into the "jacket money" from time to time, but about six months later I had finally saved enough to buy a Wested leather jacket.
Now, I don't think I need to describe the excitement and the nervousness that comes from buying a new Wested jacket. Especially when it is your first one. On May 4th 2002, I called Peter personally and placed my order for a standard size 48 regular Last Crusade style jacket. I asked for the cotton body/satin sleeves option and antique brass hardware. I only asked for two modifications. One was for a Raider's collar, and this was done by Peter's own recommendation. The other was that the jacket be slightly tapered at the bottom since I am larger through the chest and shoulders than the waist and hips. This was also Peter's suggestion. Otherwise, my order was pretty straightforward. I was told that my jacket would arrive in three weeks. I couldn't believe it! After 20+ years of searching, I was only three weeks away from owning THE Indiana Jones jacket.
Like many others on this board, I was concerned about my order and there was something nagging me in the back of my mind. I don't typically ignore these feelings, so I emailed Wested to confirm the details of my order. The other cause for my concern was that I had a poor connection on the phone when I called and I wanted to verify that all the information was included on the order. I sent along the order number Peter gave me and the details of my order. Imagine how I felt when I received an email back saying that my description did not match the order number I provided. I emailed right back and gave them the date and time that I called and they said that they had no record of my order.
I called Wested again and spoke to someone named Sally who told me that Peter must have taken the order form with him on vacation. We redid the order with all the original specs and I was assured that my credit wouldn't be charged twice, but now I was looking at 5 to 6 weeks for my order to arrive. I was disappointed, but still looking forward to getting my jacket.
Seven weeks later, I still had no jacket and was beginning to be very worried about it. I emailed Wested and explained that I was concerned because of the whole order number mix up and wanted to know the status of my order. I was told that my jacket was sent out on June 17th. I was relieved, and excited. The jacket would shortly be mine.
I received my jacket June 24th, and these were my first impressions:
- The fit was excellent
- The leather was the best I'd ever felt
- The collar looked too big
I emailed Peter, thanked him for the jacket, told him the fit was great and asked about the collar. He said that the order was placed for the Raider's collar but he wasn't sure if it was actually fitted with one since he didn't see the jacket before it left the shop. I emailed him the measurement of the collar and he said that it was in fact the Last Crusade collar since the Raider's collar is a half an inch smaller. I decided to keep the jacket the way it was since the collar didn't look bad with the size 48 jacket.
Since this was the beginning of the summer season, the jacket was hung up and not worn until early October. Once I started wearing the jacket, I began noticing other things that were not right. The first thing I noticed was that the lining from inside the left cargo pocket was showing through to the outside of the pocket. That is to say, that the interior lining of the pocket could be seen on the outside of the jacket around the bottom and up the side of the cargo pocket. It was sticking out a good quarter of an inch. I also noticed that some of the seams were not finished correctly and looked very ragged. The seam on the storm flap was especially bad and was not only finished poorly, but also crooked. I called Wested and spoke to Peter about it, and he said that they had a couple of new people in training on the machines and that my jacket was probably made by one of them. He instructed me to simply snip off the excess material around the cargo pocket. I also asked him about the little white marks all over my jacket and how I might get rid of them. He said that the marks are from cutting the leather and they are usually removed before the jacket leaves. He suggested I just take some water and gently rub them off. When I mentioned the seams, he said my jacket must have slipped through quality control.
The white marks came off pretty easily for the most part, but when I trimmed the excess material off around the cargo pocket, the lining inside the cargo pocket came loose. I was very upset about this and called Peter right back. He told me not to worry and to simply send the jacket to him and he would take care of it. He assured me that I would get the perfect jacket back.
November 7th, I sent the jacket back to Wested with a detailed note of what had happened and what needed to be fixed. I also asked them to clean up the seams. Imagine my surprise when I got my jacket back a short 2 weeks later! Now, imagine my immense disappointment when I opened the package and saw that absolutely nothing at all had been done to my jacket! It was sent back to me in the exact same condition that I had sent it to Wested and there was no note or anything to indicate why this was done. I called Wested immediately and left a message for Peter. For days I waited and received no phone call back. I emailed and received no response. Finally, I broke down and called Wested again. I spoke to Peter, and he told me that he had no idea what had happened. He apologized and said that I should send it to him again with another detailed note and that he would refund both of the shipping costs to me.
I had to wait until after Christmas to send the jacket back. Money was still tight. This time, not only did I send a detailed note about the pocket and the seams, I also sent a diagram indicating the specific areas that needed attention. I sent copies of the shipping receipts as well. This time when I got the jacket back, I saw that they had fixed the lining in the pocket, but in doing so had not sewn the pocket back on flat! There was now a permanent wrinkle in the leather at the hand warmer opening and it was more difficult to get my hand into and out of the pocket. The seams had not been fixed either. In essence, I now had a jacket that worse off than when I had originally received it. And, to top it all off, there was no refund of the shipping charges.
I tried for weeks to contact Wested and received no reply from anyone there. I contacted IndyGear and enlisted the help of one of the staff in trying to get this resolved. He contacted Wested and tried to get the situation resolved as well. Given this person's relationship with Wested and Peter himself, I was surprised that he received no reply either. I called Wested leather again and spoke to a person named Jerry who seemed to know of my problem and knew who I was before I ever gave him my name. He told me that it wasn't his problem and that Peter would deal with it when he returned. I couldn't believe what I was being told. "It's not my problem"? This isn't the kind of customer service that I'd heard about, but it was what I was coming to expect. Eventually, the staff member at IndyGear who had been trying to help me out got a hold of someone at Wested and was told that Peter was out of town taking care of a sick father. I can respect that, so I waited awhile before trying to contact Wested again. But by this time I was becoming very discouraged.
After not hearing anything for months and getting no resolution on the IndyGear front (despite numerous attempts), I gave up. I had in my possession a jacket that looked like a factory second, I had wasted money on shipping it back to England twice, I had wasted money on phone calls to England, and was getting no satisfaction from Wested. I decided it wasn't worth it anymore. I was disgusted with entire affair and in May of 2003, almost a year to the day of my original order, I wrote a last email to Peter telling him how disappointed I was. He finally replied to me, apologized, and offered me a "hefty discount" on my next purchase. My next purchase? Why would I even consider ordering anything from Wested again? I emailed him back and told him that instead of getting a discount on another jacket, how about I send him my jacket one more time and he send me a replacement. I received no reply.
You would think that this is where the story ends, but it isn't. Fast forward one year. During this year, I'd been reading all the posts by happy Wested customers. I'd read about lengths to which Peter had gone to satisfy his customers. I'd read about the shirt and the pants that were being offered and how much Wested was doing for the Indy community. On every front, Peter and Wested were receiving praise. So what was it about my situation that made Peter not able/willing to help me? I'm not demanding, unless you consider wanting what I paid for to be demanding. I'm not picky unless wanting a quality leather jacket to be picky.
During this year, I also graduated from school and got myself a full-time job and ordered myself a jacket from Gibson and Barnes. Everything about the experience and the jacket was completely opposite from Wested. The quality and workmanship of this jacket are unbelievable. And it came a full week sooner than they had said it would. Not only that, but G&B even called me to ask me if I was happy with the jacket. It was all around a better experience. It got me wondering though, if this company can put out a quality jacket, why can't the original maker of the jacket? I also had the opportunity to meet a fellow gearhead and see his Wested. It was nothing like mine. He saw mine and agreed that it had some problems. And he also agreed that they were problems that Wested should/could have taken care of.
Hearing all this praise and reading all the posts, seeing another Wested jacket, and knowing that I wasn't wrong about my jacket, I decided that I should give Wested leather another chance. Now, almost two years later, I sent Peter an email telling him that I really wanted to be a fan of Wested leather seeing as how they made the original jacket and had been doing so much for the Indy world. I proposed that I send my jacket to Peter himself and have him take a good look at it. If he decided that he was comfortable having this jacket in the public as an example of his work, then I would keep it and never say another word about it. If, however, he saw the things that I saw, I asked that he do the right thing and replace it.
I received an email back from Gerry saying that Peter was out of town and that she was not familiar with my situation. I emailed a summary of everything that had happened and attached all the email messages that had been sent to and from Wested leather. I didn't hear anything back from her for a week, so I sent a follow-up asking if Peter would accept my proposition. Her reply to me was that she had spoken to Peter and that "Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about re-making the existing jacket." She offered to sell me a jacket at a reduced price and reduced shipping. And that was all they could do for me! I thought that Wested leather was Peter's company. Doesn't he call all the shots? What did she mean that there is nothing they can do about remaking the existing jacket? If a company makes a mistake, they eat that mistake and supply the customer with the product that they paid for.
I couldn't believe what I was reading! Peter's resolution to the situation was to have me send him more money for another jacket, and to charge me shipping for the third time! I'm not an unreasonable person, but this solution did not sound very reasonable to me. The reduction in price would not even come close to making up for all the shipping and phone charges I had incurred while trying to get the original jacket fixed or replaced. And, he was not even willing to look at my jacket. For some reason, Peter Botwright refuses to deal with me in an honest and fair manner. In good faith, I did everything I was told and asked to do and I still have a jacket that is not what I paid for. If there is any doubt about anything I've written here, I still have all the emails, the shipping receipts, and the phone bills to prove it. Not only that, I still have the jacket that says it all.
My experience may be unique, but let this stand as a warning to anyone who is thinking about buying a Wested jacket or who might be considering returning one for repairs. Ask yourself if it's worth the hassle. And ask yourself why most people will recommend selling it and buying a new one rather than trying to get it repaired.
I'm not a fan of Wested leather!
My Wested Story (It's a long one)
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Mike, Indydawg
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FLATHEAD
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 723
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 7:18 am
- Location: Central New Jersey
Man, what a bummer!!
I can absolutely feel your pain. I had an identical experience with a
company called Real McCoys of New Zealand.
I had heard so many good things about this place, and I joined a few
WWII leather jacket forums that all recommened RMNZ to me, and that
they had the best reputation and customer service.
Well, I forked over about $650.00 bucks for a B-6 Shearling jacket from
them, with only one alteration. I needed the sleeves to be shortened by
one inch.
They said they would do this, but I could then never return the jacket.
I said as long as the jacket fits right, and there was nothing else wrong
with it, I was fine with that.
Well, what I got was a long/tall size jacket, that had the sleeves shortened
to fit me, but the jacket was so long, it looked ridiculous! It also had
areas where the shearling was starting to fall out at the bottom, and
it had cracks in the outer hide!
When I told them about this, their response was, and I quote: "Sell
the jacket on e-bay, and buy another one". I was FLOORED! I too, still
to this day, have those e-mail messages from them so I could actually
show people what they had said.
The worst part was, when I took pictures of the defects, and told people
about my experience on the WWII jacket forums, those people tore me
a new a-hole! They bad mouthed ME for badmouthing RMNZ even
though I had all the proof, pictures, and replies from this vendor!
Then, I did what you said, and suggested that I send the jacket back to
RMNZ and let them look at it, and if they thought it was o.k., then I would
live with it. But if they saw all the flaws, and the fact that it was not the
correct size to begin with, that I wanted a new one.
They refused.
I then contacted Aero Leather, and they not only said they could fix it,
but that it would not cost that much to boot!!
When I told RMNZ that I was doing this, and that I would never, ever
recommend RMNZ to a single person, guess what? They said that I
should send the jacket back to RMNZ, and they would look at it!!
Only after I sent it off to one of their competitors, did they even offer
to look at it. It was to late for that. Aero already had it to fix it.
Then, the best part was, as Aero was fixing it, they took pictures of it
to show me how badly the jacket was put together. Then, they posted
those pictures on the WWII jacket forums to prove all along what I was
saying. That the jacket was made wrong, was the wrong size, had cracks
in the finish, and had shearling falling out.
It was only then, that the forum people believed my story. But up until
that time, they all critisized me for badmouthing their beloved RMNZ.
Your experience is yours, and you have to share it with others so that
they can better see what to do, or not to do, when making a big purchase
like this.
Thats why I posted mine about RMNZ. I will never buy from them again,
nor will I recommend them to a sole. They robbed me, they knew it,
and they would not come clean until their shoddy workmanship was found
out by a competitor.
I am sorry for what happened to you. I know EXACTLY what you went
thru!
Flathead
I can absolutely feel your pain. I had an identical experience with a
company called Real McCoys of New Zealand.
I had heard so many good things about this place, and I joined a few
WWII leather jacket forums that all recommened RMNZ to me, and that
they had the best reputation and customer service.
Well, I forked over about $650.00 bucks for a B-6 Shearling jacket from
them, with only one alteration. I needed the sleeves to be shortened by
one inch.
They said they would do this, but I could then never return the jacket.
I said as long as the jacket fits right, and there was nothing else wrong
with it, I was fine with that.
Well, what I got was a long/tall size jacket, that had the sleeves shortened
to fit me, but the jacket was so long, it looked ridiculous! It also had
areas where the shearling was starting to fall out at the bottom, and
it had cracks in the outer hide!
When I told them about this, their response was, and I quote: "Sell
the jacket on e-bay, and buy another one". I was FLOORED! I too, still
to this day, have those e-mail messages from them so I could actually
show people what they had said.
The worst part was, when I took pictures of the defects, and told people
about my experience on the WWII jacket forums, those people tore me
a new a-hole! They bad mouthed ME for badmouthing RMNZ even
though I had all the proof, pictures, and replies from this vendor!
Then, I did what you said, and suggested that I send the jacket back to
RMNZ and let them look at it, and if they thought it was o.k., then I would
live with it. But if they saw all the flaws, and the fact that it was not the
correct size to begin with, that I wanted a new one.
They refused.
I then contacted Aero Leather, and they not only said they could fix it,
but that it would not cost that much to boot!!
When I told RMNZ that I was doing this, and that I would never, ever
recommend RMNZ to a single person, guess what? They said that I
should send the jacket back to RMNZ, and they would look at it!!
Only after I sent it off to one of their competitors, did they even offer
to look at it. It was to late for that. Aero already had it to fix it.
Then, the best part was, as Aero was fixing it, they took pictures of it
to show me how badly the jacket was put together. Then, they posted
those pictures on the WWII jacket forums to prove all along what I was
saying. That the jacket was made wrong, was the wrong size, had cracks
in the finish, and had shearling falling out.
It was only then, that the forum people believed my story. But up until
that time, they all critisized me for badmouthing their beloved RMNZ.
Your experience is yours, and you have to share it with others so that
they can better see what to do, or not to do, when making a big purchase
like this.
Thats why I posted mine about RMNZ. I will never buy from them again,
nor will I recommend them to a sole. They robbed me, they knew it,
and they would not come clean until their shoddy workmanship was found
out by a competitor.
I am sorry for what happened to you. I know EXACTLY what you went
thru!
Flathead
Flathead said it best:
This is how I feel about Wested leather. I was lied to, cheated, and dealt with unfairly. If I were Steven Spielberg and had complained to Wested about a jacket, I bet Peter would have sent out three brand new ones. Maybe now that this experience has been made public Peter will come forward and explain why he refuses to treat me honestly and fairly. In any case, as I stated in my original post, my story will stand as a warning to others who may be considering buying from Wested or thinking about sending a jacket for repairs.Your experience is yours, and you have to share it with others so that
they can better see what to do, or not to do, when making a big purchase
like this.
Thats why I posted mine about RMNZ. I will never buy from them again,
nor will I recommend them to a sole. They robbed me, they knew it,
and they would not come clean until their shoddy workmanship was found
out by a competitor.
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FLATHEAD
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 723
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 7:18 am
- Location: Central New Jersey
This is absolutely correct. Each vendor is due their turn in trying toWhile the vendors are due respect they’re not Greek gods incapible of making mistakes.
resolve any problems with a product they make.
I tried this with RMNZ, and they refused to do anything about it. And in
my example, I had immediately wrote to them the day I got the jacket
and voiced my concerns. I did not wait a long time to do it. I wanted
to let them know what was happening, and what they were going to do
to fix it.
Now, in my case, their fix for me was to sell the jacket on e-bay, and
put out more money on another jacket. They wouldn't even attempt to
fix their own product. That was until I had sent it to one of their
competetors to fix.
But I will say that I have had nothing but excellent customer service
from Wested and Peter. That is directly because each time I had a
problem with my Wested, I wrote to Peter within a few days to let him
know what was going on. And each and every time he got back to me
within a day or so, and said to send the jacket back, and they would
take care of me.
I will always recommend Wested to all my friends, and I am going to
buy the horsehide jacket once Wested gets the authentic colored leather
for it instead of the plain brown they have now.
Each persons experience is worth reading, as its this type of forum that
brings people together to share their love, or hate, of something that
is important to them. Especially if you are spending a large chunk of
money on something like a leather jacket. And it gives people the most
valuable thing in the world, information, and then they can weigh each
and every experience in order to make up their own mind as to whether
this vendor will get their business or not.
But you have to give Peter a chance to tell his side of this story. They
say there are three sides to every story. Your side, their side, and the
truth, which is usually somewhere in the middle.
Flathead
I don't get what's so hard to understand here. I posted an experience I had with one of our vendors. It happens all the time on the forum. In my case it was a negative experience. I wanted to let people know what happened. I waited a long time to post the experience so that I could tell the whole story from beginning to end. And that is exactly what I have done. It’s over. I have no desire to have any more dealings with Wested leather. Their resolution was for me to buy another jacket from them and I’m not going to do that. I thought this was clear in my original post.
As far as I'm concerned, the whole thing was over and done with when Peter refused to look at my jacket. That was the end of the story. There is nothing further to be had unless Peter wants to come on here and explain why nothing can be done about the current jacket. Even then, I already said that at this point it doesn't matter. If he chooses to respond to this thread, that’s his choice. I really don’t expect that to happen.
I'm not looking to sell my jacket right now either. If I were, I would have posted this in the classifieds. As I stated above, if I sold it, it would be for a significant loss since a lot of money went into trying to get it repaired. Right now I'm not willing to take that hit.
I expected I’d be getting a certain amount of grief from some of the Wested fans on the forum – similar to what Flathead experienced on the other forum. The fact that I didn’t says a lot about the type of people we have here. What I didn’t expect was to have my motives for posting my story questioned, because there is no ulterior motive. I'm not backing out of any thread. I said what I had to say. I shared a story. I roll my eyes because there seems to be some suspicion about my motives, and the questions asked were answered in other posts. What do I expect to happen? Nothing. What do I want to do? I already did it – I shared my experience. That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Could there be further resolution to this story? That’s entirely up to Wested. It would depend upon what they offered. But like I said, I don’t expect anything to happen. I guarantee you that if there is eventually more to the story, I will post it.
Unless Peter posts to this thread and it requires a response from me, or someone has a question about the specifics of my story and not my motivation for posting it, I have nothing further to add.
As far as I'm concerned, the whole thing was over and done with when Peter refused to look at my jacket. That was the end of the story. There is nothing further to be had unless Peter wants to come on here and explain why nothing can be done about the current jacket. Even then, I already said that at this point it doesn't matter. If he chooses to respond to this thread, that’s his choice. I really don’t expect that to happen.
I'm not looking to sell my jacket right now either. If I were, I would have posted this in the classifieds. As I stated above, if I sold it, it would be for a significant loss since a lot of money went into trying to get it repaired. Right now I'm not willing to take that hit.
I expected I’d be getting a certain amount of grief from some of the Wested fans on the forum – similar to what Flathead experienced on the other forum. The fact that I didn’t says a lot about the type of people we have here. What I didn’t expect was to have my motives for posting my story questioned, because there is no ulterior motive. I'm not backing out of any thread. I said what I had to say. I shared a story. I roll my eyes because there seems to be some suspicion about my motives, and the questions asked were answered in other posts. What do I expect to happen? Nothing. What do I want to do? I already did it – I shared my experience. That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Could there be further resolution to this story? That’s entirely up to Wested. It would depend upon what they offered. But like I said, I don’t expect anything to happen. I guarantee you that if there is eventually more to the story, I will post it.
Unless Peter posts to this thread and it requires a response from me, or someone has a question about the specifics of my story and not my motivation for posting it, I have nothing further to add.
There are indeed two sides to every story and each reads differently.
This jacket has been returned to me twice for repair over the past 2.5 years and the repairs have been carried out and shipped at my expence, so I have already lost money on it.
The bottom line is that having worn it for 2.5 years he wants a free replacement which I have refused, but when I offered him one at cost the reply was I am not giving your company another penny. Hence his posting on this site to pressure me.
I have a sign in my shop and it says ' Prices may change according to customers attitude' and that relates to this problem 'Attitude'
Cheers
Peter
This jacket has been returned to me twice for repair over the past 2.5 years and the repairs have been carried out and shipped at my expence, so I have already lost money on it.
The bottom line is that having worn it for 2.5 years he wants a free replacement which I have refused, but when I offered him one at cost the reply was I am not giving your company another penny. Hence his posting on this site to pressure me.
I have a sign in my shop and it says ' Prices may change according to customers attitude' and that relates to this problem 'Attitude'
Cheers
Peter
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Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44456
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
Ok, there's the other side to the story. It's now up to folks to either settle or drop offline. I don't think anything else can be done here except drag things around, and there's nothing more to be gained one way or the other. Just digest what you've read. To quote our leader...'nothing more to see here. Move along....' Regards. Michaelson