Where to find hat blocks

Gulice · Post by **Gulice** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:56 am

I have been looking around for a 7 3/4 hat block everywhere, i just cant seem to find any. Any suggestions on where i can get one, or can I modify a smaller one to work??

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:40 am

Ebay, antique stores, flea markets, or make your own. You can make a smaller block larger by covering it with epoxy-resin found at thee hardware store. I wear a 7 5/8, so I know what you mean. Not too many big sized blocks out there. There is also a company that makes plastic blocks. Do a search here on blocks for more info.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:35 pm

You might have to make your own or send your fedora out to be reblocked.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:49 pm

Good advice so far. Nowadays, if I wanted a Raiders block, I would have one made. I have the supplier if interested. You would have to send diagrams. Marc's block profile that he created last year would be a good one to use as the pattern. The custom made wooden block in your size would run you a little over a hundred dollars. You can even get the tie down groove on the bottom of the block if you want. I will give the name of the company to serious folks. I am told they don't want to be bothered with folks just asking questions with no intent to buy. A good investment that will pay for itself if you wear hats like me. Fedora

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:58 pm

Hey Fedora, not to put you on the spot, but maybe those of us here in certain sizes (7 1/2) could pass a plate around and buy a block and have you keep it for reblocks. Are you willing to provide reblocking services for another few head sizes if we manage to get hold of the block?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:05 pm

Hey Fedora, not to put you on the spot, but maybe those of us here in certain sizes (7 1/2) could pass a plate around and buy a block and have you keep it for reblocks. Are you willing to provide reblocking services for another few head sizes if we manage to get hold of the block?

We might could work something out if several of you guys decided to do that. Fedora

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:08 pm

I've just learned that there might be a possibility to obtain cost-effective plastic blocks, made to Indy-specs. The company does have a basic block shape in practically all sizes and circumferences. The main thing is the height of the crown - they might be able to make a taller block without taper. The block itself is originally intended for hatmaking, but it can easily be converted into a reblocking device.

I'll get back to y'all with additional info as soon as I have any. Just for the sake of argument, how many here would be interested in a gearhead-specified block with a price tag well below $50?
/SJ

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:33 pm

I am interested

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:44 pm

I'm interested in knowing the possible disadvantages to plastic over wood... and if there are none then I'm interested

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:09 pm

Scandinavia Jones wrote:I've just learned that there might be a possibility to obtain cost-effective plastic blocks, made to Indy-specs. The company does have a basic block shape in practically all sizes and circumferences. The main thing is the height of the crown - they might be able to make a taller block without taper. The block itself is originally intended for hatmaking, but it can easily be converted into a reblocking device.

I'll get back to y'all with additional info as soon as I have any. Just for the sake of argument, how many here would be interested in a gearhead-specified block with a price tag well below $50?
/SJ

Yes, I am in. I have a real interest in an authentic Indy block in sizes 7 1/2-7 7/8 !

Ken

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:12 pm

Fedora wrote:Good advice so far. Nowadays, if I wanted a Raiders block, I would have one made. I have the supplier if interested. You would have to send diagrams. Marc's block profile that he created last year would be a good one to use as the pattern. The custom made wooden block in your size would run you a little over a hundred dollars. You can even get the tie down groove on the bottom of the block if you want. I will give the name of the company to serious folks. I am told they don't want to be bothered with folks just asking questions with no intent to buy. A good investment that will pay for itself if you wear hats like me. Fedora

Equally interested in a wooden block in sizes 7 1/2 and up

Ken

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:27 pm

I am interested in checking out all of the options. I am another with a huge coconut. So, the chances of me finding a vintage block are slim.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:58 pm

Which ever way you guys decide to go, just remember to pay very close attention to the block shape. While you will want a straight sided block, this does not mean the sides are parallel. And the radius on top of the crown has to be right with the breaking point of the sides to the top at the right place. When I was first hand making my block, I was surprised to find the perfectly straight sides did not work. The reason, is because when you put the side dents in, this pushes the crown outward. You can end up with a mushroom shaped hat if you don't watch it.

Fedora

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:24 am

I would be willing to donate some $$$ to get a 7 1/2 "Raiders" block in Fedora's capable hands. Anybody else?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:27 am

I'd be interested in a block, though money is currently tight... But are there advantages/disadvantages of a plastic block versus a wood one?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:13 am

But are there advantages/disadvantages of a plastic block versus a wood one?
_________________

You know, I don't have a clue. I recall Rundquist bringing this up once and it seems that he said the nature of the wood affects the block, or the final outcome. Of course, my custom block is a wood/bondo hybrid, and it works fine. Perhaps someone else knows. regards Fedora

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:13 pm

I just did a basic google search and found this:
http://www.hatshapers.com/

They even have a mould for an "adventurere" hat.

bink

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:22 pm

Looking at it even further, the above hat block is "based" off our favourite lid!
http://www.hatshapers.com/Product%20Pag ... fedora.htm

It looks like an interesting site, although I have yet to really read much about their product. Was this the site you were trying to find again, IM?

bink

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:01 pm

I purchased the explorer fedora shaper. Here it is. And, yes it is tapered and bashes are really shallow.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:40 pm

Yep, Hatshapers is the business I'm in contact with regarding a cheap, custom reblocking device (based on their "Classic Dome", not the "Explorer"). I didn't want to go public on anything before I discussed things with them. However, we have exchanged some e-mails now, I have explained the need for a tall, untapered block and also hinted that there might be several others interested in purchasing one, so right now, they're thinking about it. The blocks are made of vacuformed ABS plastic and must be completed at home in order to be able to use them for reblocking. They are originally intended for hobby-making wool felt hats and as such, they are not recommended for serious hat pulling. If they are filled with something (epoxy resin, plaster or whatever) and thus made solid, they would more than suffice - durability-wise - for our needs.
There are two problems: first, I have not got a final answer whether they can cast an untapered block, due to production methods. The vacuformed block must be loosened from the mold - preferrably in one piece. That's why their standard blocks have some degree of taper. My limited experience of the vacuforming process tells me that it should be possible to make a straight-sided block. A block with reverse taper can't be done - it would be stuck to the mold because of the mushroom shape and couldn't be pulled off in one piece.
Second, there's the question of design and dimensions. There won't be any problems with the "standard" dimensions - crown height and circumference. The hard part would be to provide Hatshapers with exact measurements for an Indy block - Fedora named some of the problems in his above post. However, If we can provide an exact "blueprint" of our preferred block shape, and Hatshapers decide they could make one, then this could be something...
Bink wrote:

But are there advantages/disadvantages of a plastic block versus a wood one?

I see one major advantage - the low cost. I'd love to order the ultimate Indy block from the States, but can't really spend $100 on a heavy piece of wood (and God knows how much for the shipping - and customs fee...). For $25, I'm willing to give the plastic block a chance...

/SJ

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:20 am

Just got another mail from Hatshapers - due to the low taper tolerance, there are still some thermoforming issues to deal with. Apparently, the mold release is a problem. However, there's a plan to make our hat block block in two separate halves and fuse them together. This way, tapering won't be a problem and we could get any block shape we want.

To be continued...

/SJ

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:05 am

Glad I found the right website! Keep us posted!

bink

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:54 am

The taper issue is the same problem that arose a couple of years ago. Perhaps that can do the two piece. Good luck. Fedora

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:28 am

I would rather keep the people who do the reblocking for a living in buisness, such as Art (who has a beloved Akubra as we speak) Optimo and Peter Bros.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:55 pm

Renderking Fisk wrote:I would rather keep the people who do the reblocking for a living in buisness, such as Art (who has a beloved Akubra as we speak) Optimo and Peter Bros.

They sell hats for a business. They will still have customers for reblocking services. Just like everything else, some people prefer to pay and have something done. Others, prefer to be do it yourselfers.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:14 pm

That's true... there are somethings I would rather let a professional do. Like fixing my breaks and reblocking my hat.

More power to you guys.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:39 pm

I see your point Ren, and must say that I wouldn't mind my hats being blocked by Fedora, Art Fawcett or some other authority on the subject... my sole problem is of the logistic kind. I'd rather not send my hat overseas for an overhaul. I see no problem paying a professional for the reblock - the shipping costs however, is something I'd rather be without. Besides, the possibility of losing the lid during transport is unbearable.
Then of course, the idea of learning how to reblock appeals to me...

/SJ

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:33 am

Renderking Fisk wrote:That's true... there are somethings I would rather let a professional do. Like fixing my breaks and reblocking my hat.

More power to you guys.

Ren, I can't fix BREAKS, I usually leave that to a Doctor. But, the BRAKES on the race car were real easy, could do them in about 5 minutes.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:06 am

Ok, Smart asp... (Thanks for the correction.)

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:40 am

Congratulations, Bufflehead! You graduated from a dumb asp to a smart asp! Your diploma will be in the mail shortly.

I like being able to give business to our favourite hat gurus around here. I don't feel comfortable yet with sewing in sweatbands and tacking on ribbons, but the idea of learning to reblock a hat appeals to me. I can see where it would be cost prohibitive for those overseas to send a hat to the U.S. At that point, you may be better off buying a new hat! In these cases, it would make sense to be able to do your own basic reblock.

I don't think it would be taking away from our resident hat folks (it might give them a rest, though!) and it could eventually lead to even more hat gurus on the forum! How cool would it be to have someone on the other side of the pond to offer quality hat reblocking services to those who find it too costly to send them over here?

bink

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:31 am

No problem, Ren. Actually, I carry an asp when I'm working.

Bink, you brought up some good points. I think I could do everything that was in Fedora's tutorial. Finding and knowing what a good hat block would be, is something I would need help with. I would be more concerned with my ability to sew in the sweatband and sew on the ribbon and bow than I would blocking the hat. I don't think the liner would be that difficult.

We are fortunate to have more places here that can give us help with our hats than the European Gearheads seem to have. Someone over there could almost start a part time job it seems if they learned how and had the blocks. You would think that there would already be a company over there that could do an outstanding hat block, it seems that noone has found them, yet.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:42 am

Asps. Very dangerous...

A little update - this just in from Hatshapers:

Lets give it a try. Give me all the dimentions you have. Photos would be nice as well.
I have an idea that will allow me to make an untapered blocks with a tie down groove. I'll have to do a bit of plastic welding but it should be strong and durable.

I have got some of the figures graciously PM'ed over by Fedora and Pyro, but I still need a picture of a hat block, originally provided by Marc. I know Pyroxene must have posted this pic here before, and he also PM'ed it to me, but his and my ISPs do not get along. I never see any pictures posted by the good Pyro.
If you, Pyro, or anyone else who knows what I'm talking about could please PM me that picture (provided you have another pichost than Herzing.com), I'll compile the data and hand it over to Chuck at Hatshapers.

There is a millinery tradition in Europe, naturally, but the milliners have become few and old and, frankly, a near-extinct species. I'm sure some good old detective work might turn up a blockmaker or two in Sweden, but I suspect the prices might be extremely high.

More to come...
/SJ

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:57 am

I have looked for that diagram, but can't find it. I hope someone else has it saved because I need it as well. Fedora

Band Director Jones · Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:36 pm

Is this the right diagram? I hope Marc doesn't mind me posting this (after all it is from his website).

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:53 pm

Thanks, BDJ! I guess it's the block shape on the far right we're after...

Now... just to make sure - would a side view of this block have the same proportions around the crown? If so, then this diagram with more than suffice.

/SJ

SHARPETOYS · Post by **SHARPETOYS** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:19 pm

There is a site called Hatchat and this fellow has made blocks for several hatters in many styles and all in wood.

http://users.erols.com/fjraab/

It may be worth your time.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:41 pm

I saw that site when I did my basic search. I think the issue here is that folks want a less expensive hat block than the average wood block. The plastic blocks above are shaping up to be a viable solution for folks wanting a cheaper hat block. I'd, personally, like to get a wood block someday, and I've seen several places online which offer them, though I'm a bit sketchy on what sites they are at the moment.

dkwd · Post by **dkwd** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:00 pm

From what site was that picture?
What's the diference between the three sets of measurements?

David

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:19 pm

SJ, did you ever get any further with your talks about a new vacuformed plastic block?

:

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:28 pm

From what site was that picture?

From mine, which due to a hdd crash that occured last year, hasn't been updated for... well... too long time 8-[

Quite a lot has changed in my collection since, but... well, as I said.

What's the diference between the three sets of measurements?

Ok, I was playing a little with AutoCAD and made some frontviews of a nonexistent block with different domes. For my headshape 6 1/2" works great (measured from side to side on the inside of the crown) and that's 165mm. 5 1/2" open crown works great for me as well, so this is where the 140mm come from. From left to right the radius on the dome starts out with an extreme amount and then comes down to only be as little as 50mm. This was originally only to demonstrate several dome shapes.

Regards,

Marc

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:11 pm

Marc wrote: This was originally only to demonstrate several dome shapes.

Yea I vaguely remember the conversation. The topic started on different dome shapes and nobody was understanding what you were saying. Then you made that illustration and it all became clear.

And, after working with the medium for a while, I would look at your drawing and bash a hat that shape in my mind. And, everytime I did, it came out looking like the Raiders hat.

That's when I knew I had to get one.

And, when I received it I ordered a Federation Regular 2 sizes bigger than I ususally wear and reblocked it. I am 100% pleased with the results time and time again.

I even used the same block on my green hat and it looked great too.

Many thanks,
Pyro

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:55 pm

ob1al wrote:SJ, did you ever get any further with your talks about a new vacuformed plastic block? :

Actually, yes. I have a couple of prototypes at home, and will post pics of the proceedings as soon as there are any.

6 inch and 5 3/8 inch block prototypes. Review coming up shortly.
Pecard products in background have nothing to do with said blocks.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:35 pm

I want one!

I like the one on the left! I opted not to get a tie line on my block but not I am kinda thinking about it.

Let us know when the come available!

Great work,
Pyro

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:15 am

Well I'm glad I asked! I want one too, even if only to tug my hat over when its been caught in a rainstorm.

Are they available yet in different sizes?

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:20 am

...if only to tug my hat over when its been caught in a rainstorm

I wouldn't recommend doing so Al. You're either gonna stretch the sweatband or the block will not be big enough beyond the sweatband.

Regards,

Marc

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:33 am

Ah OK - thanks Marc.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:22 pm

Scandinavia Jones wrote:
ob1al wrote:SJ, did you ever get any further with your talks about a new vacuformed plastic block? :
Actually, yes. I have a couple of prototypes at home, and will post pics of the proceedings as soon as there are any.

6 inch and 5 3/8 inch block prototypes. Review coming up shortly.
Pecard products in background have nothing to do with said blocks.

Any word on these?

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:29 pm

Yes and no. The proto blocks depicted above have a nice shape but the circumference is WAY off. I was in touch with the manufacturer some time before christmas, and he was going to make another proto block with altered dimensions. Haven't heard anything since - perhaps it's time for an update!

swcrazyfan · Post by **swcrazyfan** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:47 pm

Scandinavia Jones wrote:Yes and no. The proto blocks depicted above have a nice shape but the circumference is WAY off. I was in touch with the manufacturer some time before christmas, and he was going to make another proto block with altered dimensions. Haven't heard anything since - perhaps it's time for an update!

I think it is time for an update. what, three years after.

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:46 pm

I ordered the straight sided dome form today. I should have it by the beginning of next week. I'll be sure to document any success or failure.

Ron