Club Obi Wan

update !...bottom of the thread.


well, after seeing the Cooler King's whip, I am inclined to go with Joe's whip, especially after seeing that larger knot. These are the specs I was going to go with :

- 10 Foot
- 12 Plait
- Natural Hide
- Custom Raiders handle with larger knot (VERY nice)

Is there anything else I should throw in there ? I have already called Joe and he said its not a problem to do any of this again...BUT....

and this is where I wanted to ask you guys...he doesn't know when he could get Natural Hide back in again. He has this color called "Saddle Tan" coming in, which he desbribes as a natural hide looking aged over time. Now my argument is, we all sort of look for this aged look anyway through time, expecting our whips to get darker. Is this color the way to go or should I stick with what we know best, Natural hide ?

Below are some colors of "Saddletan" I was able to pull up :







Saddle Tan being the color to the far left :

Joe's natural colored whips are pretty yellow looking in person, so I think that this "saddle tan" should make a great looking whip. It should be the perfect medium ground between:

Natural:



and the Whiskey:



The natural is Aaron's whip, and the whiskey is mine; it has the larger knot as well. It's next to a mkvii with keppler strap for color reference. IMO, the whiskey color looks closest to the old looking whips from Raiders. However, this "saddle tan" sounds like a really beautiful color that will really catch the Raiders look just as well, if not better.

Maul,

I don't know if this will help or not but here's a picture of a snakewhip I made in saddle tan and brandy (brandy is one shade darker than whiskey).


Natural leather, to my eyes at least, appears more 'blonde' while saddle tan looks more 'orange'.
-Mark

I just talked to Joe and went ahead with the downpayment. What a great guy to talk to ! I dare say that it was the phone call that committed me. Anyhow, he said he would send me a pic of what the actual leather looks like...before we go with the final go ahead ! I can't wait...I am so excited, this should be a sweet piece !

The natural hides along with other hides are scarce and high priced since the severe drought in Australia. The wait from the tanneries is high too.
It may come next to impossible to get decent hides anymore and especially with the price going thru the roof.
I had to wait about 5 months for 20 natural hides. Actually it was about 6 months.

People will occasionally order saddle tan instead of natural tan. If that's what they want i sell it to them. My opinion of saddle tan like many people is that it has a reddish tone to it and not quite acceptable for a good authentic color. If I were you and you really want Joe to make it, wait on a natural tan for authenticity. Joe can make you a great looking whip. My two cents is to wait for natural tan and don't be in too much of a rush.

The whiskey is much darker brown. I might liken it to calling it tobacco.

Brandy is so dark that it is a shade away from being black and won't sell it.

I am just not sure you would want the reddish tone on your whip.

good points Duke. Thanks for sharing. That's the thing, I am not sure myself. I mean, the natural hide that joe uses is a little on the yellow side from what I understand and the saddle is on the orang-ish side...what a conundrum. No less, joe said the color of the saddletan is a bit different than what I have pictured...he should have a pic of the actual leather this friday.

You zany whip guys! Whisky. Brandy. Tobacco. Naming your colors after alcoholic beverages and cancer-causing substances. I am starting to get the wrong idea about these whipmakers . It is sort of like when Budweiser sponsors an auto race.

so, I just got an email from Joe. He received the saddle tan and didn't even bother taking a picture because it looks just like the natural hide. So my options are...whiskey or natural hide. This makes my life easier ! Natural hide it is...and the best part is, he said he found some to hopefully make a ten footer.

Now, in response to the yellowing of whips, he was saying that it was due to the shellac that was being used. I had a few options here (of which I seeking the whip experts opinions on, because I know NOTHING about shellac)...he said I could go with a clear shellac, which will produce a paler appearance, the shellac that cooler king has on his whip, OR an amber shellac, although initially a honey color, is what makes the whip darken over time to that warm brown everyone wants.

To me it seems as though amber is the winner here, but being a non-shellac-er, I could be dead wrong...what's you opinion ?

I can tell you a bit about shellac. There's a variety of scale insects that secrete a natural resin, which is lac. Those insects can be harvested and boiled. The resin is seperated from the insect bits and pieces, and commonly drawn into thin sheets or flakes. I use shellac (for my sealing wax) on occasion, and I use two kinds. One is dark brown, the other one, which is the more refined version, is almost clear or white. Shellac dissolves easily in alcohol and makes a very durable varnish that can be used on jewelry to prevent tarnishing, and of course on wood. No acrylic finish will ever look as good on wood as many layers of shellac, applied by hand. Shellac is also in all sorts of food stuff. If you look at M&Ms or other glazed chocolates and candy, they often have a protective layer of shellac. Shellac is non-toxic.

Cheers,
-Relic Raider

good info man ! Makes sense now how this stuff is protective...then again, now that you tell me that, I am not sure if I will be indulging in M&Ms anytime soon !

Good to know. Protein with my sugar. Good argument to support my next purchase of M&M's when my wife gives me a side ways look at the store. Regards. Michaelson

I keep M&Ms in my MkVI along with notepad and books, etc.

Bugs! Snakes! Rats!

Lions, tigers & bears, oh my!

Don't forget the Ice cold can of Rootbeer,
also goes with everything,
.


Jim J.

you all have to see these pics Joe just sent me ! Its of the AMBER SHELLAC he put on his last whip and what it looks like nine months later ...I am blown away !

A fresh Raiders Whip with Amber Shellac the day after its application "



Amber Shellac on a miniwhip nine months later after application, notice the nice darkening of the whip :




Is it it me, or are those some of the damnest fine whips you've seen in a while ! The shellac color (to me) seems fantastic !!! All this while , he said he has been putting on a clear Shellac. I think I am going to go with this amber stuff, what do you think ?

that is an absolutely gorgeous color, i say go for it!

Great looking whips indeed!
About the shellac treatment... how well does it stick to a whip that is uncoiled, cracked, and coiled several times? Will the leather itself darken, or is it just the shellac that's changing color? If it wears off, should the whip be treated again?

/SJ

Now is the amber shellac on a saddletan whip in those pictures?

Whatever it is, it looks great.

oh sorry, those whips are actually natural hide...both of them. Both are natural hide with amber shellac, the first pic being the DAY AFTER application of shellac, and the second being NINE MONTHS AFTER...notice the darkening. Just for reference the cooler king received the clear shellac on his whip.

None of those whips that joe sent pics of are of saddle tan. He and I abandonned that idea after he received and realized that their color was almost exactly the whiskey color.

okay, got bored this evening, so I thought I would put something together to as side by side comparisons. Trust me, when I did this, I saw how the color could be a bit too whiskey at the end of all things....here's a pic with cooler's clear shellac, the amber shellac and the 455 from DM...I don't know what shellac, if any.

kinda makes you wonder,,...if joe has a non shellac option...it seems like the DM has no shellac on it...hmmm.

I must admit, this is the first time I have heard of anyone using a shellac on their whips. I sorta like it. It gives the whip a durable looking finish.

However, I'm wondering if any other whipmakers use shellac? What might be the pros and cons to it? Would it get flaky, or does it evenly wear off? Might the shellac inihibit the "breathability" of the leather? Or does it simply impart a durable/protective sheen? Could it actually add to the whip's life and durability?

Regardless, those are some mighty fine looking whips.

exactly ! I didn't even know shellac existed before joe said anything. All of sudden, its like discovering a new word, you see it everywhere. I will call him today and ask.

I was just wondering the same thing. We have enough whipmakers on this forum, come on guys, what's the pros and cons of this shellac deal?

Both my JS Whiskey and my JS Nat. Tan 455 clone are shellaced. The beauty of shellac, as an Vintage Guitar nut will tell you, is how it ages through, use, light and wear, taking on an individual characteristic for each instrument, or whip in this case. I think it protects and shines the outer plaits well and makes the whip age nicely.

There may be a more technical reason beyond the aesthetic, but that's why JS, EcWhips, and Messrs. Stenhouse and Duke are here !


JJ/Ken

Got Maul wrote:exactly ! I didn't even know shellac existed before joe said anything. All of sudden, its like discovering a new word, you see it everywhere. I will call him today and ask.

Actually, I don't know of too many whipmakers who don't use shellac on their whips. It adds a nice finish to the whip that can still be penetrated by the dressing. Eventually it flakes off with use and it won't hurt your whip, so don't be worried about that.

Jim

Is this a certain sort of shellac? Or is shellac just basically, well, shellac.

MaxPlague wrote:However, I'm wondering if any other whipmakers use shellac?

And if so... is Paul Stenhouse one of them? I love that color!

In Christ,
Shane

well, why not throw up the Stenhouse as well ! You are absolutely right though, its a beautiful color !




So, mr. Stenhouse....do you use a clear shellac ?