Club Obi Wan

What do you look for when looking at an Indiana Jones hat?

It sounds, at first, to be a simple question. But when you consider the different options and styles from all the different movies,
it is difficult to answer. In this post, I am going to cover some the characteristics I personally look for when looking
at an Indy hat in general. Some things you may know, some you may not.

Also, I’ll touch on things that frustrated me when I would try to shape a hat to look like a particular scene. Keep in mind that
some things are, to me, more important than others. These are things that, when I watch the movie, my eye is always drawn to.
At the same time, I am going to cover some things that I don’t feel are discussed enough.

As far as hats go, I like the profile of the Raiders hats the most and some of the LC hats. Whereas, I don’t find the TOD
hats very interesting. Simply because I don’t think there was much thought that went into the hat for that movie.

BTW, this turned out the be the biggest nitpick I have ever written. So, I will apologize in advance for the length and download
time. With that being said, let’s get started.

The Hat
There are, in my experience, 5 basic parts to the overall appearance of the Indiana Jones hat. Those parts are the
front view, the side view, the pinches or bashes, the ribbon and the brim. I am not going to talk about the liner simply
because I don’t feel, at this time, it plays a major part in the over all look of an Indiana Jones fedora. I will talk briefly
about the sweatband in conjunction with the brim.

The Front View
The front view is the most common view because it’s the one most viewed in the movies and the one you see when
you look in the mirror. It’s this view that is in many of the photographs and stills we model our hats against. When
I think of the best front view, the Raiders hat is the one hat that comes to mind.


Pictures courtesy of MK

The crown is untapered. Meaning, the edges (in a 2-D view) appear to be parallel. Some people have termed this
a “stovepipe” look.



The crown also has two heart-shaped bumps on the top. These are often seen from straight on. However, if the hat,
head or both are tilted back, it could appear to be straight or slightly rounded. Before I understood what was
going on, this was a frustration for me depending on what scene I was shaping my hat to emulate.



Here are some photos of some hats that I feel have had really good front views.



Here are some photos of some hats (all mine) that I feel have had some really bad front views.



Even Indy had his share of bad front views.



The Side View
This view is often overlooked. It’s only after several reblockings does one notice this view. You really need two
mirrors to see this view as the hat is sitting on your head. For the side view, I often pull a little Last Crusade influence
into the mix.


Pictures #1 & #3 courtesy of MK

Again, the crown is again untapered. The back of the hat will always be straight as well as some or the entire front.
Sometimes it is even more so. In some scenes, the back of the hat is almost a reverse taper. Meaning, the 2-D line
or edge leans away from the hat rather than towards it. The front of the Raiders’ hat has a backwards slant that starts
just above the ribbon. In almost all cases, the part that is covered by the ribbon is always parallel with the back
of the hat.


Picture courtesy of MK

The Last Crusade hat is straight all the way to the top and parallel with the back of the hat.



The top of the hat will have a nice curve across the top.


Picture courtesy of MK

Here are some photos of some hats that I feel have had really good side views.



Here are some photos of some hats that I feel have had some really bad side views.



(Note: The only reason the Pre-Blocked H.J. is listed is because it just didn’t look like any of the hats from
the trilogy.)

There are a few anomalies observed many times with the Raiders hat. The hat can have a very tapered appearance
depending on which angle the hat is viewed.



Additionally, the observance of a reverse taper has been seen in some still photos. Reverse taper is where, on
the front view, the edge of the crown appears to be moving away from the base of the hat rather than remaining
parallel as seen earlier. This creates an additional indentation just above the ribbon of the hat.



Some theories that cause reverse taper are:
• Over tightened ribbon
• Actor’s hair on the inside pushing out on the hat.
• An additional bash on the backside of the
hat that, when viewed from the front, causes this effect.
• Stretching or distorting the hat lengthwise out of its oval form.
• Side bashes pushing the felt further out
• Small little bash or dent towards the back of the hat.



The Bashes or Dents of the Hat

The bashes or dents of the hat are probably some of the most difficult things to create properly in order to make
an Indiana Jones hat look correct. Pushing a bash in one direction may make the hat distort in unpleasant ways
in another. The thickness of the felt is a key and often missed factor of successful hat bashing.

Where does the term bash come from?
Seeing as how most people, including me, in the hat community hadn’t heard of the term bash before, this
question is often asked. The first time most IndyGear fans read the word bash was probably in the following description
on the IndyGear main page.

“Last Crusade saw the return of a fairly distinctive hat profile. While not as dramatic as the Raiders hat, the
LC sported a tall (though not quite as tall as the Raiders?) untapered crown, and more of an unbashed look, i.e.
not the tight pronounced pinch and bash of the Raiders fedora. In addition, the brim appears to be slightly
narrower with more of a prominent upward curl - really more of a snap-brim as compared to the Raiders fedora.
The Raiders hat had more of a permanent downward curl to the front of the brim, rather than a true snap-brim.”

From the front, the Raiders hat had a very tight crease down the center. In the other movies, the center crease was
not as defined.



The tight front crease is primarily created by the side bash. That style calls for the felt to be pulled closely
together in the front of the hat. This also produces the rearward slant that was earlier mentioned.


Picture courtesy of MK

The Last Crusade hat also has a center crease but it’s less defined than Raiders. The felt is pinched near the top.
But, then it flares out, as it gets closer to the ribbon.




From the side, the dents are not as deep and defined as in Raiders. If fact, many of the desert shots in LC appear to
little or no bash to the hat whatsoever.



The LC style will help keep the front and back edge straight and parallel due to the fact that the felt is only pinched
at the top.
The center dent of the hat has been the cause of confusion and concern for a good deal of time. If you make the
bash too deep, on some hats, it will case the sides to taper. If it’s not deep enough, it doesn’t create the correct
looking profile. I have found that if the felt is flexible enough, you can create a very deep center dent without
concern for taper.

Below are photos of center dents from the three movies. The Raiders is deep and pointed. In Temple of Doom,
the center dent looks like it was almost an afterthought. In LC, the dent looks very shallow and undefined except
for the front.



The Ribbon
According to the IndyGear mainsite, the ribbon was 1½ inches.


Picture courtesy of MK

For the most part, the ribbon that ships on the Federation and Fed. Deluxe are, for me, ideal. I really like the
double bow. It gets really high, like the back of a 1957 Chevy and calls attention to itself. I like tri-fold on the
center of the bow. And, I even like how some of the ribbon from underneath shows through.
I think it gives it character.



The “Flying V” isn’t that important to me. It is where 2 creases in the material flare out from the center of the bow.



You can read all about that on Dalexs’ website.

It has been observed that the bow of the hat is slightly towards the front of the head in Raiders. This is not observed
in any of the other movies. The cause for this, I feel, if from the hat being turned. 3thoubucks has a website dedicated
to and explaining the Raiders turn and other possible modifications. I am only going to discuss the turn and what
I see from it.

The Brim
I truly believe the brim of the Raiders hat is as flat as flat can get when the hat is setting on a table (or office chair).



It’s only when the hat is placed on the head that the head “deforms” the sweatband. This combined with how the hat
is placed on the head and the dimensional cut will cause the classic Raiders “swooshes” that we see and take on
a completely different appearance.



So, what exactly are we supposed to see?
The first thing to look at is what is happening over or above the right ear. There is a very pronounced swoop that starts
almost in the back of the hat. And, peaks over the eye and then starts down and doesn’t stop till it reaches
the brim front.


Picture courtesy of MK

On the left side where the bow is at, the brim does something different. It folds or bends up towards the side of the hat.
It’s different from the right side. There are some shots in the movie where the brim on this side seems rather flat.
I personally believe that it’s due to wear-and-tear or not turning the hat.



So, when the hat is viewed from the front, there are two different shapes going on. One side is straight and flat and
the other side is swooped up.



The front of the brim has a few unique things going on. First, is the additional little swoop over the right eye
of the wearer.



The second thing is a small hump in the brim around the forehead.



Finally, the back of the brim is rounded all the way around. The felt actually dips down slightly before it makes
it way back up and ends.







So, these are just some of my observations. If you are like me, you are never satisfied with the look of your hat and
will spend countless hours in front of a mirror tweaking, pushing and adjusting. Hopefully, what I have learned
will help make your time a little more productive.

High Regards,
Pyroxene

Wow...this wud be be considered the "defined" post on Dewbak Wing's ASAP boards....very comprehensive. I'll definitely have this page handy when I am bashing my federation this week!

WOW!!! Now THAT is what I call going into detail. If there is anything that should be added to the hat section of the main site, this write-up is it. Thanks Pyro

"All here who say Pyroxene has way to much time on his hands say Aye!
Everyone: AYE!
Anyone here think someone else has more time on their hands?
[room is silent]"

Okay, sorry for the (lame) joke but WOW what a comprehensive guide! :junior: -IJ

great analysis Prox. That is awesome! going to file this...

I got a bit of a question regarding the brim. If putting the lid on the head is what causes that great brim swoop, and if the brim really is flat when placed on a table, then isn't it necessary for:

a) The felt to be very floppy - and-
b) The hat to be tight?

If the felt isn't thin and floppy I just think it wouldn't deform very much when you put it on your head. And I KNOW the brim wouldn't deform if your head wasn't pushing the hat out of shape, and therefor the hat must be slightly tight. The floppy felt I get, and I think a nice floppy fed is something that many of us are looking for, but this is more or less the first time I'm hearing that you might want your fed to be slightly too small. Not tight enough to give you a headache or anything when you put it on, but tight enough so that the brim deforms when you wear it. I think this bums me out a bit, because my keppler fed fits too nicely for the brim to be much distorted. On the other hand it means I can start getting lids blocked by Fedora, as the next size down from me is 7 3/8" which I believe he has.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't suggest getting the fed too floppy. Because, when you do, you get this:



See how all the elements of the brim are there but too distorted? All the stiffner has been washed out of this hat. And it can't even hold a brim curl in back. I have a BCF hat that's even worse. There is no stiffner whatsoever and the brim just does ghastly things.

The hat I have gotten the best results, to date, is the Fed. Deluxe (seen in the above post and in $3K's "Gallery of Turned Hats"). It's never been washed, reblocked, steamed..nothing. Just worked the brim with my hands when I wasn't wearing it and used a spray bottle of water to do the shaping.

I wear a 7 1/2 and ordered a 60 from Hats Direct. It was a little large on me about 1/4 a size(if there ever is such a thing). When I turned the hat, it snugged it up a little.

The hats I couldn't turn are the Peters Brothers hats. Their di-cuts were too good and didn't allow for pleasant brim warping. When that happens, you can simply shape your brim similar to the Raiders hat and it will look good.

I look forward to getting a PBBM or an Optimo one day to really see what can be done. I would imagine that particular weight of felt would yield some impressive results.

Pyro.

Pyro, I am speechless. This is definitely a thread that needs to be preserved for all to see.

Pyro

Great post! I agree should be added to the main site or at least somehow preserved. A great resource and I even learnt something I never knew - the mystery of what the Flying V is, solved, thanks to Pyro!

Ken

Amazing work, Pyro! Very extensive and definitive. I think this should be on the main site.

Don't forget the most important element in a great "Indy" lid - the felt. the Raiders hat was extremely soft with with looks like little or no stiffener in the felt - brim or crown. Screen shots are good, but to get a real idea of what the hat is - you have to see it in the wind and in the sun light.

The subsequent two films had fairly stiff felt - LC being the worst and TOD had several different hats both with and without taper. Everybody picks on the plane scene fedora in TOD while it seems that nobody notices the hideodorous taper and deformation of the Raiders hat in several scenes. If you have the DVD's check out the nast taper when Indy looks down to pick up the fertility idol - yeeuccckk! Frankly (I know I am opening up a can of worms here), aside from the loose pinch, the rope-bridge fedora looks better than the feds used in Raiders. But, people have problems differentiating costume quality from script quality I guess...

Pyro, I think it was you that pointed out the different costume designers - one for Raiders and one for LC & TOD - in an earlier post. I meant to ask you there, but are the designers on the set when filiming? I doubt it, but I may be wrong.

Great job, Pyro! Very comprehensive!
After reading it, I can't wait to get home and start tweaking my Akubra Fed Reg again, and just when I thought I had gotten it right. Posts like yours are inspirational.

I agree with everybody else: This needs to be on the main site.

You did a terrific job on this. It is by far the most extensive and accurate fedora workup I have ever seen.

Great googly-moogly! Yes, indeed, it should be on the main site. If anything, at least make this a sticky post in the forum! I plan to reread this when I have the time to really sink my teeth into it, but I like how you compare the hats from all three movies. I'm sure I'll also be tweaking my Fed soon enough. bink

About the reverse taper in the Cairo scenes: you can see while Indy is putting Sallah's children in the truck that there is a very distinct dent on the side of the hat, only visible from a certain angle. This could be one of the causes of the Reverse taper. Though I've found that pushing down on the sides of the crown and causing the side dents to bend back creates the reverse taper effect.

I was most impressed by your brim work Pyro, I've yet to successfully create a good Raiders brim effect, very well done. But that's beside the point, This is a great article, this should be added to Indy Gear's Fedora section right away, excellent work!

Cooler King wrote:About the reverse taper in the Cairo scenes: you can see while Indy is putting Sallah's children in the truck that there is a very distinct dent on the side of the hat, only visible from a certain angle. This could be one of the causes of the Reverse taper. Though I've found that pushing down on the sides of the crown and causing the side dents to bend back creates the reverse taper effect.

This is true. I commented on a different thread about that theory. I have added it to the top post.

Thanks,
Pyro

Well now you did it, you rekindled my intrest in the hat! Looks like I will need to get that second job to purchase more hats. Thanks Pyro!

That was a great post, Pyro. Thanks for posting it.

Everybody picks on the plane scene fedora in TOD while it seems that nobody notices the hideodorous taper and deformation of the Raiders hat in several scenes. If you have the DVD's check out the nast taper when Indy looks down to pick up the fertility idol - yeeuccckk!

Fedoraman,
We all have our own opinions of what we like best that is for sure. I like the deformities of the Raider's hat. It shows that it was soft. Do you have a screen grab for that taper? The only picture I could find quickly for that scene was here:

http://www.theraider.net/showimage.php? ... ns/r01.jpg

Obviously, the only thing tapered here is the idol
I am very curious since I never noticed that and I thought I had studied this hat pretty well! Thanks in advance,
Rick

Thanks for all your kind words and input on the subject matter.

I don't think it's just that one particular scene from TOD.



I use the airplane example a lot because it's the most extreme occurance of it gets the point across.

And, not all the hats are bad. The rope bridge hat is very nice. They probably got the hang of shaping a hat.

You catch a glimpse of some taper in LC too. In the shot below, Spielberg's baseball cap appears bigger than HF's fedora.

http://www.theraider.net/showimage.php? ... /mo_04.jpg

However, I don't see it as bad when I watch the same scene in the movie. Go figure.

Pyro.

I have to agree, this kind of hard work should be featured on the Front Page.

You catch a glimpse of some taper in LC too. In the shot below, Spielberg's baseball cap appears bigger than HF's fedora.

http://www.theraider.net/showimage.php? ... /mo_04.jpg

However, I don't see it as bad when I watch the same scene in the movie. Go figure.

Boy, Lucas was thin in those days.

Wasn't he! He almost looks thinner than Harrison.

Pyroxene wrote:I wouldn't suggest getting the fed too floppy. Because, when you do, you get this:



...I look forward to getting a PBBM or an Optimo one day to really see what can be done. I would imagine that particular weight of felt would yield some impressive results.

Pyro.

I echo the sentiments of the fantastic write-up. Given your potential, future, Optimo or PBBM purchase, how does your PB Merc perform for you based on your criteria? Or is that the "overly-floppy" hat in the pic here?

Thanks. And again, great dissertation.

Cab

Pyroxene, absolutely excellent post! It is good to see some fresh, well thought out and very well written Indy fedora info find it's way to this site again. I also vote for this info to be included in the eventual Indygear site update. This information is priceless for both the newest of newbies trying to bash their first fedora and the most seasoned of Indy Gear veterans trying to tweak the look of their fedora for the umpteenth time. Positively invaluable, well done!

-GCR

P.S. Oh, I only included this because I see it has come up in this thread, but my take on the taper in the TOD fedora has always been this:

Someone once pointed out the possible reason for the taper in the plane hat could have been because Willie crumpled it up while waving it in front of Indy's face (to wake him up). Indy then puts the hat on, and the film continues without a moment of rest for the three main characters, thus allowing no time for Indy to fix the bash on his hat. Long story short, the hat ends up soaked while still on Indy's head and is not reshaped to it's original state but instead remains tapered and dries that way on Indy's head in the bright Indian sun. Thus, it's tapered to some degree throughout most of the film. And yes, I am aware that in reality there were several different hats used in the actual film, but if you consider the circumstances in terms of the story, from the standpoint of an avid hat wearer, all of this seems very plausible. Although I doubt very much that the costume people put THAT much thought into the design of the TOD fedora. But then again, who knows?

Cabinetman wrote:Or is that the "overly-floppy" hat in the pic here?

Thanks. And again, great dissertation.

Cab

Nope. That's a Fed Deluxe that has been reblocked many many times. It's been retired as a yard work hat.

The Merc Indy is really nice. It acts really funny because however you touch it, the hat will take on that shape.

What a great compedium about Indy's hat. This "work" should be included in the "Hat section" of the main site ...

A good help for bashing an open crown hat.

Holy Moses!!!!!!!! What a great post Pyro. Now, explain to me why this did not show up on my PC until just a few minutes ago. I smell a conspiracy. Seriously, Rick mentioned this post yesterday, and it was not on my page at all. Great work!!!!!! I agree 100 per cent. Fedora

Shhh! Guys, keep it down... I think Fedora's on to us!



Mike

Course' it could be due to the fact that I am blind in one eye, and can't see out of the other one. Fedora

Pyroxene, I have one observation that maybe you or someone else may have noticed...

As for the front swoop of the brim, some of the Raiders hats seem to have more of a rounded front--from the side it looks like a duck's bill. It's hard to put into words, but look at the three side view images you've posted. The edge of the Raiders brim from the Raven Bar looks set further back, giving the front of the brim a more rounded look--the other two look pefectly flat, meaning that one can only see the edge as it curls over the eyes. It's even evident in the two images you've posted regarding taper in the Raiders hat, the brim looks more molded and less curled in the front.

I'm not sure if I've made any sense, but if someone knows what I'm taling about, maybe you can tell me how I can produce the look with my hat?

Falstaff, I think it's just a matter of the angle you look at it. In the three side-by-side pics, the bar scene visual angle shows the top of the brim whereas the other two are either straight on, or somewhat lower in visual perception. Also, I think it's a matter of the upward curl you give the sides of the brim, as seen in the top, front angle shots. Does that make any sense? bink

EDIT: I just picked up my Fed and gave it a good looksee from different angles while also exaggerating the upward curl of the brim with my hands. That, and pushing outward a little on the hat (front to back) produced the "duck bill effect" for me at the same visual angle.

Pyroxene, you and quite a few others on this board have elevated this all into the domain of the connoisseur.

It always reminds me of wine tasting, 'ah yes, a 1994 Herbert Johnson I believe with a Streets of Cairo/Raven Bar blend in the bash, with a cheeky mix of Venice pier swoop in the brim and a Raiders turn... Not too heavy on the screen accuracy of the ribbon- but leaves a good deal of contrast. I taste a light wash of Fuller's Earth in there too... and oh, he's added an ever so subtle reverse taper... all in all a good Fedora that would go nicely with any Authentic Lamb Wested for any archaeological adventure.'

Thankyou for taking the time to post this!

Neolithic, that was great!

Pyro:

Much thanks. I asked for something like this a few weeks ago. I had started collecing some screen shots, but hadn't made it nearly this far.

Very helpful.

Fedoraman wrote:Everybody picks on the plane scene fedora in TOD while it seems that nobody notices the hideodorous taper and deformation of the Raiders hat in several scenes.

Hideodorous taper? Is that taper that has a hidden smell?

Thank you all for your kind words.

On an additional note, I just received my regular Federation. I was able to produce the same results as in the Fed Deluxe photos above.

So, it is possible to achieve a really nice Raiders look right out of the box.

I'll post some step-by-step details soon.

Pyro

Here are the steps I took to get, what I feel, a screen accurate Regular Federation

1.) When I pulled the Federation out of the box there were two thoughts that occured to me. The first what I was suprised at how stiff the brim was. The second I was suprised at how much taper there was on the front and back of the crown.

I was, however, not concerned. I was confident I knew this would turn out well in the end.

2.) The next thing I had to do is get the brim flat. Out of the box, the Federation comes with sizeable curl from the flange that blocked it. I tried working it out by hand to soften it with no luck. I would put hat on and it would still snap and flex in some of the right and wrong places.

I took my trusty spray bottle of cool water and wetted the entire brim down. I did this on both sides. I then weighted it down similar to JohnNdy's post. http://www.whyaxis.net/indy/hatshaping/hatshaping.html

I put the whole project under a ceiling fan to dry over night. The next morning the brim was still a little moist so I let it continue drying. Coming home in the afternoon, the brim was completely dry.

3.) I softened the brim by bending and folding it. This works out the initial stiffness that the stiffner has.

4.) Once the brim was soft and flexible, I misted the crown just a tad with my water bottle. I put the hat on and started the turn. The hat turned about as far as my Fed Deluxe and it started to produce the features mentioned in the first post.

5.) While still wearing the hat and standing infront of a mirror, I made a small dent in the crown where the center dent should be.

6.) I then took the hat off, lightly misted the crown and began bashing according to my liking. This only took 10-15 minutes. One pleasant after-effect is that the taper in the front and back were now gone. Thanks in part to the turn.

I am extremely happy with the results of this experiment. I am 100% convinced that it's possible to get an extremely screen fedora.

And, I am personally pleased that what happened to me earlier with my Fed Deluxe wasn't just a happy accident.

Cheers and good luck,
Pyro.

Umm, I guess I'll be the one to ask... pics? I think the next time I mess around with bashing a fedora, I might try the spray bottle technique instead of the steam, just to compare and see how it works out for me. bink

binkmeisterRick wrote:Umm, I guess I'll be the one to ask... pics?

Don't you trust me? Just kidding...

Here you go. Regular Federation. Right out of the box. I made some bashes and turns. No steam.


A little blurry...sorry. I am seeing a little taper on one side and RT on the other...




Needs some work on this side. A little too much curl in towards the back but no complaints.



Cheers,
Pyro

Looks great!

Thanks, Easter Bunny! BAWK! BAWK!

Great pics! I'll have to try the "no steam" method! bink

Pyroxene, are you saying that all you need to do to get the correct brim swoshes and curves is to first flaten it second make the stiffner go away and then finally just turn the hat on your head. The turning of the hat will cause the wanted effects on the brim?????

Brendon

That's what works for me. The brim has no shape to it when it's off my head.


But when I put it on and turn it,

..there it is. Exact same hat, exact same day photos are only minutes apart.

I wouldn't make the stiffner go away completely, but it does need to be floppy. Too much flop and you some really humorous results.

Woah,

That is indepth!! What I personally look for in a Fedora is something that makes me feel awesome when I wear it. I mean I could nit pic over the bends, bumps, dents, etc...but I really just want to look in the mirror and smile because I have a hat that takes me back to when I was a wee lad, running around the hiking trails pretending I was Indy.

I want the hat to look good on me. I mean If I were Harrison Ford I could get away with wearing a lot more (and getting the ladies) but I'm not, so for me to expect I am gonna look like him, with "his" hat is always going to be a disapointment.

I just want it to suit me.

Ok ok, and I'll admit, I look for a hat that doesn't look too wide. I see a lot of hats that look far to wide and they start to look cowboyish.

Thanks Pyroxene, that cleared up a lot. I hope that idea works the same for me cause it is the coolest way of shaping the brim that I have heard of.

Brendon