D-Rings on the Raiders MKVII

[IJJTM]

I’m not sure if this has been discussed before, if it has please link it since I couldn’t find any.

But, after looking closely in Raiders, it looks like Indy’s bag has D instead of O rings. It’s easiest to see it when Indy fights the swordsman, topples the Anubis statue, and before he enters the Hovito temple. Part of me thinks the rings could have been dented to be a little flatter on the bottom, but they definitely don’t look like standard O rings to me.

Has anyone ever received a MKVII with D-rings?

[Canyon]

I think my bags have D rings, but I'd have to check.

[Western New York Indy]

Well this is fascinating- I hadn't ever noticed before, so I just checked a few screenshots from the movie, specifically the shots right before Indy shoots the swordsman... It really looks like they are D-rings.

My bag (it's a WPG reproduction bag) has O-rings.

-WNY Indy

[Indiana Jon]

Well, I'll be ...

I just checked all three scenes you mentioned, and they certainly look like D-Rings. Good catch! I wonder if that was just one of the bags they used, or all of them.

[Hollowpond]

My eyes might be playing tricks on me in that screen cap, but that doesn't look like a rivet either. Looks more like a post style closure like on the raiders holster...

[WConly]

My eyes might be playing tricks on me in that screen cap, but that doesn't look like a rivet either. Looks more like a post style closure like on the raiders holster...

By jove... I think you may have something here. It does look that way. Interesting. W>

[Canyon]

No, it looks as if the rings on mine and Chewie's bags are round.

[IJJTM]

If I’m not mistaken all the times it looks like D rings, I think it’s the same bag strap with the 3 distinctive tally marks a little above the buckle.

[ChrisW]

Wow! Nice catch!

Pretty amazing how Raiders always has all these unique little details that don’t carry over to the sequels.

[Western New York Indy]

My eyes might be playing tricks on me in that screen cap, but that doesn't look like a rivet either. Looks more like a post style closure like on the raiders holster...

Wow, good catch- I think you may be right. It does look too rounded off and protrudes a bit like the closure on the holster. It's hard to tell for sure, but I'm seeing the same thing you are now that you mention it.

-WNY Indy

[Hollowpond]

I've been pouring through HD screenshots trying to find something definitive...no dice. It's either the post style or a much smaller brass rivet than what we traditionally see put on repros. What's even more curious is this; Look at the D-ring (and it is 100 percent a D-ring) from these three sequential shots (all of these come from the swordsman scene)




You may have to open in another tab and zoom in, but there is a break in the D-ring in the center shot and not in the location where you would traditionally find the break in a D-ring. And then it disappears...

[bearbeast]

That is an interesting find... There's always something new to discover.

Also, that break in the D-ring looks fishy indeed. The break would normally be in the middle of the straight bar...

Cheers,
Bear

[makeitjones]

If it's the same bag as exiting Well of the Souls you can see the back of the fitting on that side of the strap:

That's the rear of a single cap tubular rivet - quite distinctive:

The front is a domed cap - 7 mm diameter would be most likely size (as that's a standard size and it's visibly not as big as a 9 mm) .

fpriv.jpg (6.7 KiB) Viewed 478 times

A Sam Browne stud uses a hole with a slit (as you'd see on holster closing strap) so you'd be looking for that on the strap:

sam b hole.jpg (2.52 KiB) Viewed 478 times

[Hollowpond]

That's definitely it MakeIt!!!

More rounded and less flat than I'm used to seeing. This morning when I was pouring through the screencaps, I was looking for the Sam Browne slit to no avail which led me to believe I was incorrect.

[Indiana Jeff]

I’m not seeing a D ring. I think it’s a trick of the light. The fabric of the bag is bunched up indicating a round ring to me. I would expect the fabric to be flatter if the bottom of the ring was the flat side of a D ring.

I realize these bags were made by many makers over the course of the war and there are some variations, but in all the decades we’ve been collecting vintage bags, no one has ever come across one with D rings.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[makeitjones]

I had a Mk VII by Woods with D rings but that's the only one can recall seeing - it had other small differences from most VIIs so seems to be an exception. As you say, with so many companies making them there's all sorts of possible variations.

The Mk VI can be either brass D rings or steel O rings. The VII is a move to a simpler design for wartime expediency so seems to be almost exclusively steel O rings.

The period brass D rings are visibly smaller diameter than the steel O rings - as a rule of thumb if the strap fitting is grey or shiny it's probably steel.

They are prone to rust though so the production swapping out one for a different fitting has to be a possibility.

[IJJTM]

I’m not seeing a D ring. I think it’s a trick of the light. The fabric of the bag is bunched up indicating a round ring to me. I would expect the fabric to be flatter if the bottom of the ring was the flat side of a D ring.

I realize these bags were made by many makers over the course of the war and there are some variations, but in all the decades we’ve been collecting vintage bags, no one has ever come across one with D rings.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I also saw the fabric bunching up, and part of me wonders if production at one point switched the rings, because in the other films I definitely see O-rings, but it’s weird how on the fence I am about Raiders.

[makeitjones]

For comparison here's a period VI brass D ring against a VII steel O ring:

If it's an O ring they have a visible weld which could be the black line?

[makeitjones]

Also noticing if the O ring is tilted back at an angle it looks less like an O and more D-ish.

[Hollowpond]

I agree with IJJTM. To me the smoking gun is the way the webbing bunches up in the corner of the D-ring in the OP screencap.


There ain't many corners in a circle...

[Indiana Jeff]

I think the bright light on what could be perceived as the left corner of a D ring is a trick of light reflecting at that moment. To me the bunching is still consistent with a circle, especially as the bunching is across the width of the webbing and not only on the one side/corner.

To makeitjones' point, the round rings tend to be steel and the D rings tend to be brass, this looks silver/steel to me.

As we know, ROLA was shot fast and loose. They didn't have dozens wardrobe pieces so it's unlikely to me they had one MKVII with D rings they used for this scene that isn't visible in any of the other scenes filmed in Tunisia.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Western New York Indy]

I was looking through screenshots just trying to see if there were other scenes where the rings on the bag looked different. I found a frame during the flying wing sequence where they look considerably smaller than what I'm used to seeing. Maybe it's the angle, but it seems like the strap fills up most of the width of the ring, whereas I am used to seeing the ring being quite a bit more wide than the strap.

Indy bag 2.jpeg (11.03 KiB) Viewed 302 times

Maybe this is just me seeing things, but it sure is fun to speculate

-WNY Indy

[IJJTM]

In that shot it kind of looks like an upside down d ring.

[Western New York Indy]

It certainly doesn't look like a regular O-ring... It just looks too compact. I guess it is possible that the O rings just got bent/flattened on accident, so maybe that's what we're seeing.

-WNY Indy

[IJJTM]

Yeah, I thought that was a possibility too.

[Indiana Jon]

It would have to be a very specific set of circumstances for an O-ring to be bent enough to look like a D-ring. I think it's more likely that they had one bag with D-rings like the one Makeitjones posted above.

I have to respectfully disagree with Jeff on this one. I think we're seeing more than a lighting effect here. True, the webbing does bunch up, but it doesn't look like the same bunching we see on the O-rings. That webbing is typically somewhat rigid, but if it were flexible enough it could still bunch up on a D-ring.

[Indiana Jon]

It would have to be a very specific set of circumstances for an O-ring to be bent enough to look like a D-ring. I think it's more likely that they had one bag with D-rings like the one Makeitjones posted above.

I have to respectfully disagree with Jeff on this one. I think we're seeing more than a lighting effect here. True, the webbing does bunch up, but it doesn't look like the same bunching we see on the O-rings. That webbing is typically somewhat rigid, but if it were flexible enough it could still bunch up on a D-ring.

That being said, I do agree with Jeff that the ring in the swordsman screen grab does look more silver/nickel than brass, which only adds to the mystery.