Club Obi Wan

OK, so this is kinda cool, and also a bit spooky in some ways.

These past few weeks I've pulled an A2 flight jacket out of my wardrobe that wasn't a great fit when I bought it a few years back but, having dropped a little weight in recent times, I wondered how it fared these days. To my delight, it was a really nice fit and I've been wearing it a lot, trying to wear-in the goatskin a little (and failing), but really enjoying the vibe.

Which, of course, put me in mind to pull out my Wested horsehide which I hadn't worn for many years (having grown out of it long ago), and to my delight it fit really well too, although was a little dry and stiff after years in the wardrobe. You can see where this is going, huh? Wearing all these new-old jackets made me think... man, I should really get a new Indy jacket.

So last night I was leaping around threads here and videos on YouTube, picking up on where things were at - I don't even remember S&J being a thing last time I thought about jackets - and reacquainting myself with details that used to come so easily to mind when discussing 'the jacket', but which had dribbled out of my brain over the years. It was a fun thing to do.

And... I'm going back to the well. I've ordered up a custom Wested Raiders jacket in plain old lambskin. Never had a Raiders jacket before. Never had lambskin before.

So this thread will grow in the future with the arrival of the jacket, pics, and thoughts. All the usual stuff. But you know what's weird and spooky? When I looked up when I bought that Wested horsehide (from the first time Peter experimented with horse, incidentally), I noticed it was August 23, 2004 - see https://indygear.net/cow/viewtopic.php?t=9102 for more.

Give this new Wested a few weeks to be made and lob down here to Australia and, bugger me, it's going to arrive within weeks of the 20th anniversary of me getting that horsehide jacket. What are the odds of that? If you'd asked me a day ago when I got the horsehide, I'd have said maybe it was 2000? Maybe it was 2005? I had no idea. I had no idea my anniversary was at hand.

More on this unintentional 20th anniversary jacket, why I went this route, how it turns out, etc, when it arrives. Until then... it feels good to be getting a new jacket!

Looking forward to reading your review!

Times flies, whether we’re having fun or not!

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:17 am Times flies, whether we’re having fun or not!

Aint that the truth? 20 years. Crazy. Good to see you, Michaelson!

I always thought it was the mileage, not the years.

But am anxious too, for you in hopes Wested makes a winner.
But when you’re ready for yet another jacket, do try S&J, they make a fine jacket.

Looking forward to your pictures.

Croft

Rob wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:23 am

Michaelson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:17 am Times flies, whether we’re having fun or not!

Aint that the truth? 20 years. Crazy. Good to see you, Michaelson!

You too, old friend!

Regards! M

Indiana Croft wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 6:37 pm But am anxious too, for you in hopes Wested makes a winner.
But when you’re ready for yet another jacket, do try S&J, they make a fine jacket.

I totally understand that - on both counts. I will say more when it all arrives.

So the day has come. I promised I'd say more when the jacket actually arrived but, to prolong the suspense a little bit longer, let's start with an FAQ because, haunting this place for over a couple of decades now, I know the kind of things that some of you will want to ask or will just flat out say to me

(It might also be a useful thing for people to find in the future, rather than relying on older threads about buying Westeds. I know I love using this place as a reference from time to time.)

Why did you go with Wested?

To begin with - personal nostalgia. It's true, it runs deep. Even though Peter is gone... even though the patterns used over so many years were never quite right, even when they got tweaked from time to time... even though there are plenty of options on the market these days... there was something about going back to Wested after 20 years (not that I knew the exact timeframe at the time I ordered), that I found really appealing, so I did. It might not seem rational to some of you (I know some of you feel very strongly about Wested and I notice the tide has changed A LOT over two decades around here regarding the company on a number of levels), but emotions are seldom rational, so sue me

But... but you know about S&J, right?

I do indeed! It was never a thing when I was last buying jackets, so I took a crash course in all things S&J and I'm really impressed with what they do. If I went for a cheap leather option with them, I wouldn't even be paying THAT much more than Wested, relatively speaking. But... something I noticed was the focus on extreme screen accuracy, weathering, and so on. And that's not actually what I needed right now. I wanted a 'normal', unweathered jacket in a light leather that I could wear to work. So, with memories of how the standard Westeds were cut to be very forgiving day to day jackets, at the expense of some screen accuracy, plus the waiting time of getting an S&J put together, it just didn't make enough sense to go with S&J at this time. Going basic just felt right. I've never even owned an Indy jacket in lambskin before. Isn't that nuts? In the future, if I want something cut a little different, that wears a little different, and maybe that looks like the Smithsonian jacket... hey, great, get S&J on the line. They look gorgeous, and they'd do a great job for me, I know.

OK, so what did you order up from Wested?

Standard Raiders 48"
Back Length : 27.5" 
Sleeve Length : 25.5"
Skin Option : Brown Lambskin
Lining: All Brown Cotton
Side Straps: Brass Buckles
X-Box Stitching: Yes
Extra Inside Pocket: No
Gussets : No

Um, you basically got an OTR. Only the cotton arms, buckles, and X-Box stitching are variations?

Well spotted. Maybe you can start to see from the order above how basic I was aiming with this jacket? It's not meant to be tailored to the 'nth degree', in an exotic leather, with weathering to match scene 27 in Raiders, specifically the first 20 seconds of that scene. I have always had the utmost respect for people who go to those degrees but it's just not where I was aiming, this time around. It's not what I needed this jacket to be. And, yes, could I have saved some money by going full-on OTR and ignoring the X-Boxes, going with D-rings (which I could change to buckles later on if they really bothered me on a Raiders jacket), and sucking it up and just having satin arms instead? Sure. But I didn't, LOL. And yes, I recognise the oddness in making a slight custom job of something that didn't need to be a custom job. Again, sue me

So, just confirming, you didn't want a hero cut? Did you at least consider it?

Considered it, yes. It wouldn't have cost me much more, but I found plenty of examples on here of people saying if they had their time over, they'd have ordered a regular Raiders jacket, rather than the legacy hero cut due to x, y, and z reasons. I noticed quite a few comments like that - usually relating to how the jacket sat on them. While it might be more screen accurate in some areas (and again, kudos to everyone who follows that dream), I noticed some folk just didn't like it as much - for their purposes, primarily - versus a jacket that fit more like a regular jacket and which has touches as simple as leather facing on the zipper (the original Raiders jacket missing that facing was a goof not a design feature, LOL). So while I like the idea of the hero jackets conceptually, and I respect what they're emulating, and I REALLY like the look of that Berman and Nathans tag, I thought it would be safer - again, for the jacket I was trying to create for the situations I wanted to be wearing it in - to go with the regular Raiders cut this time.

But you know about S&J, right?

We've been over this

OK, but getting a custom is always risky with Wested.

I wouldn't say 'always' as plenty of people on here... on YouTube videos... and elsewhere, have clearly got jackets they love through the custom process. So 'always' is an overreach. But I acknowledge others have had total disasters. I myself had a Wested disaster around 2013 when I ended up with a real 'waiters jacket' kind of cut on a jacket I ordered. Combined with me being at my heaviest - way heavier than I am today - I just looked absurd in the thing and I sent it back, taking a bath in the process with postage back to the UK and also a restocking fee Gemma slapped on me because of the strange measurements the jacket had. Fair play to them. I was probably the reason custom jackets were banned from returns, LOL. At least I got some money back although, looking back, it did put me off dipping my toe into Indy jackets again for over a decade.

What I did this time is use the measurements for an OTR jacket in the belief that if they were going to get something right, it's going to be the kind of jacket they make for OTR sales, so I stuck to the OTR measurements for everything, notably back length and sleeve length. My take is that when custom jobs have gone off the rails it's because folk have tried to tweak a number of areas and I think it's just bamboozled the person putting it together, working from a standard pattern, and it's ultimately thrown the whole design out of whack. If I used the OTR measurements, surely it would be hard for them to muck up the kind of jacket that they already make, quite successfully, for their OTR range?

But you know about S&J, right?

I'm ignoring you now. Let's take a look at my new jacket! (Click the pics to enlarge them!)

Straight off the bat... the arms are right... the body is right... I'm only 6' tall, but that 27.5" back wouldn't want to be any shorter.

And it feels GREAT. Having never had a lambskin before, I can't believe how 'second skin' this feels, and how unlike my Wested horsehide it feels.

I've been sitting for a few hours in it now and, particularly on my arms, it doesn't even feel like I'm wearing a jacket. Feels more like a cotton Harrington jacket.



On we go and... uh oh... a mistake did creep into the order. Can you see it? I'd requested buckles... and got D-rings. I've dropped Wested a line to let them know.

Not the end of the world by any means - as the text above ought to show, screen accuracy was not the goal with this, so D-rings on a Raiders? I think I'll live, folks.

(EDIT: I've spoken with Mick at Wested and in addition to apologising, he's more than happy to send out some buckles to swap over. So it's a total non-issue to me now.)

And apologies for the clothes I was wearing - that polo shirt is ridiculously long. The jacket is absolutely sitting at belt height. 27.5" is basically right... for me!

Something else I noticed is a snugger fit than my Wested horsehide, which is a Last Crusade pattern. It's true when they say the LC is more accommodating, but I like this fit.



That's probably enough show and tell for now. Congrats if you actually kept reading this far. I am REALLY happy with how this turned out.

Can't wait to naturally weather it over time

Your (or anyone's) reasons/choices for what jacket company you go with are yours and no one should fault another fan for that choice. You did your due diligence and went with your gut and I think the results speak for themselves. Looks great!

Now go and tuck in that shirt!

Excellent jacket and reasoning. I’m occasionally torn about replicating my original Wested lambskin and would have ordered exactly the same jacket, with the exception of adding gussets (screen accurate, but more so because I drive a lot, and with arms raised a jacket without gussets rides up terribly on my body.)

I would also opt for a zippered extra pocket.

Otherwise, that’s exactly what I would have ordered in a size 44 with 25” sleeves!

Well done!

Regards! Michaelson

P.s I hear S&J offered a good alternative

Michaelson, you beat me to the S&J joke.

Jacket looks great and your decision making totally makes sense. Get what you want.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

That really looks great. Congrats on a good fit.

Mike wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 8:13 am Your (or anyone's) reasons/choices for what jacket company you go with are yours and no one should fault another fan for that choice. You did your due diligence and went with your gut and I think the results speak for themselves. Looks great!

Now go and tuck in that shirt!

Hahahaha, I was going to do a photo in the office lift mirror this morning (it's winter here and I had a real Mystery of the Blues vibe with jumper and scarf, not to mention tucked in shirt!), but of course someone got in the lift with me! Murphy's Law. 7.30am, no one else in the building, and six lifts to choose from... and I get someone in mine!

Michaelson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:03 am Excellent jacket and reasoning. I’m occasionally torn about replicating my original Wested lambskin and would have ordered exactly the same jacket, with the exception of adding gussets (screen accurate, but more so because I drive a lot, and with arms raised a jacket without gussets rides up terribly on my body.)

I would also opt for a zippered extra pocket.

Otherwise, that’s exactly what I would have ordered in a size 44 with 25” sleeves!

Well done!

Great taste! Driving to work today I had the sleeves riding up a little. Enough that it was noticeable, but it didn't drive me crazy. C'est la vie. The main thing I noticed was, similar to sitting at my desk and typing yesterday, I could barely feel the arms of the jacket. So soft, so light. Definitely like no other leather jacket I've ever worn. I really like it. I get the trade-offs when it comes to the lambskin, but when I'm just getting in and out of a car, walking to an office, and sometimes wearing a backpack, I think I'll be fine. Read enough threads on here, and you're left with the impression that lambskin explodes if you so much as look at it and I've never felt that was going to be the real story, and it's definitely not!

Michaelson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:03 am P.s I hear S&J offered a good alternative

Ha!

Indiana Jeff wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 12:44 pm Michaelson, you beat me to the S&J joke.

Jacket looks great and your decision making totally makes sense. Get what you want.

That's the thing, it's easy to follow trends - especially when so many others are getting 'x' style of jacket at any given time in COW history and there's lots of information about said jacket, so it feels like - and probably is - the safer purchase. I just had to block it all out and go my own road; even if I knew some of the potential pitfalls that could befall me. A leap of faith.

indianajohn007 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 2:52 pm That really looks great. Congrats on a good fit.

Cheers! I really think the secret wasn't doing anything funky with my chest size (I measure pretty much as a 47" and thought 48" was safer than 46" particularly as this is a Raiders jacket and not a Last Crusade), and going with the 'proportional' measurements for the arms and back that are used on the OTR models. Worked out great. There's not a lot of room in it, but being such soft leather, it works great. I doubt cow or horse, in the same measurements, would have worked as well - comfort wise - in these measurements.

The jacket looks good on you Rob, congratulations! I really like how well thought out your whole ordering process was. The ratio of sleeve and body length is great.

I am also a late converter to lambskin jackets, the Indy jackets I bought many years ago were all cow or horsehide and I can only agree that the fit and feel is totally different with a soft and light leather.

Tremolo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:07 am The jacket looks good on you Rob, congratulations! I really like how well thought out your whole ordering process was. The ratio of sleeve and body length is great.

Thanks! The whole time I was waiting for it to arrive I was sweating bullets that if the 1" margin of error came into play, and I ended up with a 26.5 back, it might feel slightly off and I would be left "so close, but so far" off what I wanted. I was so relieved when I put it on!

Tremolo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:07 am I am also a late converter to lambskin jackets, the Indy jackets I bought many years ago were all cow or horsehide and I can only agree that the fit and feel is totally different with a soft and light leather.

It's a revelation for me. Would I want every leather jacket I ever buy for the rest of my life to be lamb? Let's not go that far! But for this jacket, to drive to work in, and spend long periods sitting down in, and naturally distress over time (I can't wait to get caught in some rain!), I am just really excited about the look and the feel.

I should have done this year ago!

It's certainly not photo worthy - yet - but my conversion to lambskin continues

Already, with just normal wear a few times a week, the jacket is molding to me and starting to take on character.

No colour changes, or scuffing, obviously - but it's starting to look like a jacket that's been worn for awhile. It's great.

Strange as this might sound, putting it on feels like a warm hug as it just slips into the right place already on my body.

Lamb! It's bloody great.

After doing my boots with Leather Honey, I hit the jacket. One layer, and it wasn't too interested in even drinking that. Good leather