To all the do-it yourself holster makers-a question

wolf2hawks · Post by **wolf2hawks** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:37 am

Wolf2Hawks here with a question to all the holster makers/leather hobbyist out there.
I'm working on the pattern for my Left-Handed, Indy style flap holster for my Browning Hi-Power and have run into one snag on the pattern. Anybody know of any book, website, video, lost tablet, shaman, or voodoo witch doctor that shows/knows how to put in a toe/barrel plug(the tear-drop piece of leather that fits in the bottom of the barrel end of the holster)? I actually have the pattern mostly set up(even found an old military holster in a pawn shop for the Browning for $5 bucks but more about it in a minute) except for how to sew in the barrel plug. That and buying the leather(can't sew a holster w/o leather) and I'm ready to start.
I know(or guessed) from the looks of the other holsters, it's sewn in from the side, but I need to see how it's formed(ordering a set of plans for the Western mexican loop holsters, and I know most of them use the barrel plug, so I hope it might show it). Any help out there would be appreciated.

Now on to a description of the holster I found(afraid at this time, don't have the equipment to scan in the pictures) at the local pawn shop. It's a black-full flap-right handed holster and it appears to be almost custom made for a Hi-Power. Instead of a belt loop, it has the military wire belt hanger like on the old leather holster for the 1911(but doesn't fit the U.S. pistol belt) and has no manufacturers markings or stamps. Also the barrel end is open, no toe plug or sewn closed. Like I said I've got some good pictures of it, jus no way to put the up at this time.

Well, hope to hear from you guys soon, --Wolf2Hawks

RonC · Post by **RonC** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:52 pm

Wolf, while it may not be much help, I've included a link that shows a couple of slim jim holsters with toe plugs. It does show the stitching.

Ron

http://www.oldwestplainsman.com/toes.gif

wolf2hawks · Post by **wolf2hawks** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:22 am

Ron,
Thanks for the pictures, does help some(with this and some other projects for a Cowboy Action Rig I'm working on for my brother's '51 Navys).

The main thing I'm trying to find out is how the plug is formed and then sewn in(whether or not it's a cup with sides, or 2-3 pieces of leather sewn together. Found the pattern that was posted for the Keppler holster, and the only thing I could see was a top(or bottom) view of the plug with stitching on top. I don't see how you could sew a single layer of 8-9 oz leather from side). I want to keep to the spirit of the Indy holster and add the plug in (I also have seen this little piece of leather had about 20-25 bucks to a custom holster, so beginning to wonder if it is a major operation or not).

Looks like a finally found a new adventure, probably should have called this the Search for the Lost Toe Plug. Again thanks for the help.-Wolf2Hawks

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:09 am

I modified an IMA .455 holster into a Raiders holster. Since I had to lop a few inches off the end, doing away with the plug, I took it apart out of curiosity over this very thing. It's not sewn in at all. A stitch has to pass completely through two layers of material to create a stitch. That wouldn't apply, as you'd be going through one layer and into edge of the plug. There would be no return path to create a stitch, if that makes any sense. The stiching around the tip of the holster is decorative, just to be consistent with the spine stitching. The plug is actually glued in place.

wolf2hawks · Post by **wolf2hawks** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:19 am

Shawnkara,
That is exactly the information I was looking for.(Looks like the decorative stich was throwing me off). Had been trying to figure out if it was made in like a cup form and sewn around the side, or if it was done by some magical process known only to a few. Talking it over with my brother, thought maybe it was pressed into the bottom of the holster after it was sewn, or the bottom sewn first then stitched up the side. From the sound of it, it must be pressed in after the holster is sewn up.(My brother thinks the barrel plug is more problems then what its worth, since it doesn't let dirt escape the bottom of the holster. I'm just wanting to find out so the holster looks as close to the original as possible). I know it is a main part of the Cheyenne/Mexican loop style of western holsters.(Have a set of patterns ready to order for the Cheyenne holsters, it might confirm or show any other ways it could be done.

I'm new to leather working and holster making, and I'm just learning this stuff as I go along.(Hopefully be starting on the belt in the next couple of weeks). Again thanks for the information.

SWTroopers · Post by **SWTroopers** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:17 pm

Hey Wolf,

I am also an amatuer holster maker. You picked a good hobby

Gluing the plug in is probably just fine, but it will probably work loose eventually. If you glue it use one of the better contact cements like Barge. As far as forming the shape, just sew up your holster and then trace the end of your holster on a piece of paper. Then trace on the inside of this line a distance away equal to the thickness of the leather to get your pattern. Then cut it out and test fit. If need be, start over. Make sure you use a good thickness of leather for this piece (8 to 9 oz. or 9 to 10 oz). If you're worried about dirt and water buildup, then punch a hole in the center of the plug before installing.

But, if you sew that puppy in it will never fall out! If you're interested in learning to stitch in an end plug I recommend picking up How to Make Holsters by Al Stohlman. It's not that hard, but takes some practice. You can find it here: http://hidecrafter.com/HTML/P65.html and at the Leather Factory/Tandy Leather.

All that being said, I rarely use end plugs. I prefer the old west style rigs and a certain Indy related smuggler rig

Good luck and show us your work when you're done!

Marc

wolf2hawks · Post by **wolf2hawks** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:28 am

SWTrooper,
Thanks for the tip(it's going into a note book at home, a 1 1/2 inch binder with about 3 inches of info shoehorned in). Been meaning to order the Al Stohlman book, looks like I'll have to get it ordered(found a company called S-T leathercraft that has it for 8.95 just over the border in MO. I do like Hidecrafters, just ordered the Old West collection gunbelt plans which are real nice, even giving me some ideas for an Indy money belt.)

Leatherworking is kind of a hobby just getting started in, found a lot of information on the net for making cowboy holsters, especially a site by a gent named Eightbits that has the plans for making a Huckleberry shoulder rig, (my next project is one for an Enfield revolver in .38 S&W, Probably show it off too). Going to add your tips to the list. Thanks again. Wolf2Hawks

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:08 pm

Have you seen Marc's holster pattern? He has it on his site.

http://de.geocities.com/marc_kitter2002/

wolf2hawks · Post by **wolf2hawks** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:22 am

Sorry to take so long to answer. Had to take my grandmother to the emergency room(possible heart problems, but as of this morning, she was just fine).
I've got Marc's pattern(that was the one I was talking about seeing a top view of the barrel plug). Luckily, the pattern was no problem, as I found a military holster that was a cross between the old U.S. holsters for the 1911 and the Indy holster for the Browning(it was open at the barrel end w/o the plug and had no markings), for $5 bucks at a pawn shop, and removed the stitching to make a cardboard pattern. A little modification of cutting off about an inch from the bottom, squaring it off, and reversing the pattern for a southpaw plus adding the strap, and the patterns read to go(plus finish figuring out if I'm going to bother with the barrel plug).

I'm actually learning this stuff as I go along, trying to work out all the details before I cut leather.--Wolf2Hawks

RonC · Post by **RonC** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:14 pm

Wolf, are you a cowboy action shooter, also?

wolf2hawks · Post by **wolf2hawks** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:46 am

Ron,
Been interested in Cowboy Action Shooting for a long time, even have a local group that shoots about 5 miles from my house(The Boneyard Creek Regulators). Only problem is, between job loss(or just not making enough), helping to take care of sick parents, and the other thrills and chills that go along with life, just never got all the guns together to actually shoot but I do try to keep my hand in it. That's the main reason I'm trying to get into leather making, cut the start-up cost down by making my own leather.
Those patterns I was talking about, The Old West Collection by Will Ghormley(availible from Tandy and HideCrafters) are nice. They show how to make 3 types of belts with bullet loops(money, scout and ranger belts) and the holster patterns is for about 25 different size guns(include me and my brothers favorite, the '51/61 Navy). Be glad when I can get the leather to get started.

If you can't guess, both me and him are Darksiders(whoops, wrong movie reference.

RonC · Post by **RonC** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:36 pm

Wolf, I understand the lingo...I grew up shooting the "holy black" as it's called! Used to shoot front-stuffers quite a bit. Now it's mostly limited to cap-and-ball revolvers. I've recently backed off of shooting cowboy action shooting as much as I did, but I'm still involved somewhat.

wolf2hawks · Post by **wolf2hawks** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:27 am

Then you'd enjoy talking to my brother on the frontstuffers. He's getting ready to start building up the parts to make his own muzzleloaders...
He's working on trying to build Tennessee Mountain or Poorboy rifle, a Virginia rifle, and a percussion swivel breech(two shot pistol where you fire one barrel, hit a latch, swivel the next barrel then you're ready to shoot again). Me, I'm trying to convince him to let me buy a Colt Walker, remove the loading lever and cut the barrel back to about 4 1/2 inches and make a pocket pistol out of it(ought to be small enough for the Indy bag). I might be a little deranged, but who's not.

BTW. for those that are interested, that website with the Huckleberry shoulder holster and other old west holster and belt patterns, it's

http://eightbits.home.att.net

If you follow the plans from making cowboy cuffs through the gunbelt, it makes a nice tutorial for beginners.

RonC · Post by **RonC** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:34 pm

Wolf, I once had a cut-down Walker myself! It was one neat revolver!

wolf2hawks · Post by **wolf2hawks** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:40 am

RonC,

Did you use the full original 60 grains of powder with that or a more reasonable grainage(safety's sake between 40-50?) Also what was the barrel length? I'm figuring with the 2 inches or so for the area that holds the loading lever, could go with about 2 and a half in front of that.

What I'm actually wanting it for is since some clubs knockdown targets can't be knocked down with a .36 caliber, The Walker pocket model will

Of course, it'll probably knock down everything else including your's truly.

This is just one of those little projects I had rattleing around in my head(along with my other hobbies of leatherworking, gunspinning, knife and tomahawk throwing, primitive archery, crossbows, scrimshawing, swords, experimental archaeology, and many more

One of these days, I might need something safer...Nah) that when I tell my brother just makes him shake is head and go, "Why?".

Keep your powder dry.

RonC · Post by **RonC** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:36 pm

Wolf, mine wasn't that short. The "Transition Walker" had a 7 1/2" barrel, as opposed to 9". I shot both 60 grains of FFg, as well as 45-50 grain loads. They all worked well, but the lighter loads were much easier on the revolver!

wolf2hawks · Post by **wolf2hawks** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:46 am

Ron,
So you're talking about what eventually became the First model Dragoon pattern.
I just figured that with as many repros of the Walker there are(I think about every company has one, and about as many as the Navy), it would make an interesting project gun(Think along the lines of an Old West gunsmith that was suffering from a hangover, saw this old Walker laying on his work bench, and decided,"Let's try this and see what happens".)

Just with me, I didn't suffer from a hangover(don't drink anything stronger than Mt. Dew anyway, besides alcohol, firearms and black powder don't mix, anyway), I just suffer from SDS(Something Different Syndrome, which appears to be common on this list, otherwise none of us would be here).

I've always been a big fan of the Walker, mostly due to it's connection with the Texas Rangers, and the movie Outlaw Josie Wales(though still haven't figure out how Clint could carry 2 Walkers, an 1860, and a 49 pocket model, plus a Sharps rifle and still be able to face all those Redlegs. The world may never know).

RonC · Post by **RonC** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:39 am

I, too, suffer from the Something Different Syndrome! I copied mine from a Transition Walker I saw at the Cowboy Hall of Fame Museum in Oklahoma City. Let me know how your project progresses...and if you need any asistance from me. Also, feel free to email me at macreedy@lycos.com.

wolf2hawks · Post by **wolf2hawks** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:08 am

Thanks Ron, I'll keep you informed-Wolf