Club Obi Wan

Is it still veg tanned? Grainy? Smooth? Soft? Most importantly is it still a medium brown color and not a dark brown/gray?

Why not ask Wested?

Was it really ever vegetable tanned? Usually veg tanned leather gets hard and brittle when exposed to a lot of water, much more so than chrome tanned hides... I think jackets are rarely made from veg tanned leather...

PS: the colour palette on the Wested website makes the shrunken lamb look like chocolate brown.

xmasters wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:50 am Why not ask Wested?

They don’t respond with such detail..they're a bit vague. I think it's because their factory is away from whoever answers emails. So just wondering if anyone got anything recent. Don't really care about veg tanned just curious.

I don't know what it's like now or if it's different to how it used to be. They used to say that the skin is variable in colour, but they tried to save the darker stuff for the Raiders jackets, but that was years ago when Peter was still alive.

xmasters wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:58 pm I don't know what it's like now or if it's different to how it used to be. They used to say that the skin is variable in colour, but they tried to save the darker stuff for the Raiders jackets, but that was years ago when Peter was still alive.

I’d actually be fine with the medium chocolate color. I have a feeling the actual raiders jacket was dark in person but I want something more umm..action figurish? Something more brown anyway.

It's not veg tanned. Never was. Wested doesn't stock veg tanned leathers -- veg tanned leather tends to be stiffer, more needing of care and conditioning, and most importantly, is a longer and more laborious process and thus considerably more expensive. Veg tanned leather jackets are built for a real purpose. It doesn't make the best jacket leather for *most* people, but it does age really cool if cared for.

As for the shrunken lamb itself, it's usually sort of a milk chocolate color, sometimes lighter. There's a grain to it owing to the shrinking process, and it often has a slight stretchy elastic quality due to the shrinking as well. It's also quite soft -- too soft for my taste -- which is another dead giveaway for chrome tanning (veg tanned leather could never be *that* soft). And it's also very thin; it is probably the most delicate of Wested's leathers. Odds are decent that you will tear it at some point.

Agree with Illinois_Jones, on all the points. I mentioned this before but my shrunken lamb was really easy to tear. I have conditioned it twice with Pecard and have had no more tears after that, though. Either all the weak points gave out in the beginning or the Pecard's helped...

Also, I got mine in 2018, so the colour might not be the same anymore, but it is waaay lighter than any of my other Westeds. Too light for my taste, I quite enjoy the dark-brown/gray of my other jackets.

Sooo it sounds like veg tanned is exactly what I don’t want. I loooove soft. Right now I’m just looking for contrast to my Raiders standard. Something more as a costume piece so it won’t get every day use (nothing does anyway with this weather). And definitely want a lighter brown to match the idol grab scene but also just sort of a generic Indy look. The kind you’d find on an actual figure or a comic book. I tend to actually think the original jacket was a very dark brown but if I got the legacy it would just sort of bore me at the moment. I was also thinking pre-distressed lamb but it kinda looks orange. I would want that for an Indy 5 jacket though.

So I saw a couple of topics that said it used to be veg tanned and stuff such as this one which is what brought that up

http://www.indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.p ... ed#p866518

Illinois_Jones wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:21 am It's not veg tanned. Never was. Wested doesn't stock veg tanned leathers -- veg tanned leather tends to be stiffer, more needing of care and conditioning, and most importantly, is a longer and more laborious process and thus considerably more expensive. Veg tanned leather jackets are built for a real purpose. It doesn't make the best jacket leather for *most* people, but it does age really cool if cared for.

As for the shrunken lamb itself, it's usually sort of a milk chocolate color, sometimes lighter. There's a grain to it owing to the shrinking process, and it often has a slight stretchy elastic quality due to the shrinking as well. It's also quite soft -- too soft for my taste -- which is another dead giveaway for chrome tanning (veg tanned leather could never be *that* soft). And it's also very thin; it is probably the most delicate of Wested's leathers. Odds are decent that you will tear it at some point.

This can't be correct as I have a BK Relic Hunter made in their striated lambskin which is 100% vegetable tanned and it is the softest leather I have ever handled, even softer then Wested's shrunken lamb.

Softer, or more pliable? Because I have also handled both and BK's lamb has considerably more body than most chrome tanned lambskin garment leathers. The vast majority of veg tanned leather in the world is used for luggage and furniture and shoe components -- not only are the midsoles and heel stacks of many of my boots made of veg tanned leather but the shank as well. Veg tanned leather comes out *stiff* because the tannins actually get in between the collagen fibers and push the water out, and tannins have a crystalline structure to them which makes it more rigid. Now what I have a feeling the tannery that BK sources its skin from does, which is different from combination tanned leather like CXL, to make the leather softer and more pliable is a process called tawing where they use alum and other aluminum salts on the tanned hides to make them softer and more pliable. Most veg tanned leather meant for garments that aren't supposed to be stiff like riding jackets, let alone be suitcase leather, tends to go through tawing. It's expensive and it's something they like to leave out of the advertising because a lot of veg tanned leather likes to use the whole "natural" vibe in marketing.
I can almost guarantee that your "100%" veg tanned leather also underwent some other processes.

That explains why shoes are always so stiff.

I think new terms are needed. Soft can imply the leather is flexible and moves easily while when I think of soft I think of super smooth to the touch when running my fingers across it. Buttery soft is…?

SFGiant wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:12 pm That explains why shoes are always so stiff.

I think new terms are needed. Soft can imply the leather is flexible and moves easily while when I think of soft I think of super smooth to the touch when running my fingers across it. Buttery soft is…?

Yeah, that's kind of my point. "Soft" can mean a lot of things. There's a weight and body to BK's veg tanned lamb that you won't find in most chrome tanned lamb. It's very soft to the touch, like fine silk or something and you'll practically want bedsheets made out of it, but it doesn't drape like really fine chrome tanned nappa, or TBH even really cheap split lambskin because it's so thin. The shrunken lamb Wested uses in some ways behaves more like a textile -- and I'm not saying that's a good thing, often it's a feature I don't like in leather and why I tend to avoid lambskin personally. With veg tanned you can feel there's a structure in there, kind of like it has a memory to it.

I just ordered a shrunken lamb raiders hero..Does anyone have any recent pics of theirs?

Update: they cancelled my order without telling me because I requested a few things after submiting the order.

Well what did you request? Wested is not as amenable to special requests as they used to be; I asked if they could do a Casino Royale jacket in goatskin a while back and they said no. Nothing else, just a different leather. I've done stuff like that before with no problem, but it seems they want to cut down on administrative complications and chance for error. But the current Hero pattern is the best and most accurate it's ever been, so I wonder what you wanted?

Illinois_Jones wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:21 pm Well what did you request? Wested is not as amenable to special requests as they used to be; I asked if they could do a Casino Royale jacket in goatskin a while back and they said no. Nothing else, just a different leather. I've done stuff like that before with no problem, but it seems they want to cut down on administrative complications and chance for error. But the current Hero pattern is the best and most accurate it's ever been, so I wonder what you wanted?

I asked for the leather concessionaires label and black buckles and all cotton body (I meant to choose that option instead of satin sleeves so that's my fault I guess).

So basically just the lining and black buckles, seems strange to cancel the order but perhaps that was to stop production of a jacket with the things you didn't want and might have returned.

Best to message before ordering about changes. They've always accomodated my requests before.

xmasters wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:14 pm So basically just the lining and black buckles, seems strange to cancel the order but perhaps that was to stop production of a jacket with the things you didn't want and might have returned.

Best to message before ordering about changes. They've always accomodated my requests before.

Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't at least ask me before canceling. I should have known to make these requests before hand. It's been years since I ordered from Wested. I would have been fine with proceeding with the order as it was. Anyway I reordered with the all cotton body.

Can you post pics when you recieve it? I'm curious to see the look of the current crop.

xmasters wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:49 am Can you post pics when you recieve it? I'm curious to see the look of the current crop.

I received the jacket and the fit is perfect but the skin is very light. Will post pics later. Would pecards darken it at all or a shower? Would a shower also bring out some grain?

Edit:

Edit:

That’s beautiful! I don’t think it needs to be darkened at all!

Pecard's will definitely darken it a bit, but it might go back to a lighter shade when it dries again. Just a warning: Pecard's will make the shrunken lamb squeak for a while. Out of all my jackets it only happens to the shrunken lamb.

Thanks!

Maybe I'll just give it a shower then apply some baby lotion once it dries.

I looks good, I wouldn't bother with pecard. Overrated stuff. If you really want it darker I would use eco-flow leather dye in dark brown.

xmasters wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:27 am I looks good, I wouldn't bother with pecard. Overrated stuff. If you really want it darker I would use eco-flow leather dye in dark brown.

Thanks. Should I give it a shower? I want to give it some wrinkles and character.

I wear it for two months before I consider wetting the leather.

IMO don't give the shrunken lamb a shower. It's a fairly delicate leather, certainly the most delicate of Wested's, and besides it already went thru a shrinking process and readily crinkles and wrinkles. The hot shower treatment is generally for the smooth finished leathers to rapidly add character and to force it to conform and fit in a matter of hours as it dries.

Just wear it. It will quickly do its thing.

Illinois_Jones wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:38 pm IMO don't give the shrunken lamb a shower. It's a fairly delicate leather, certainly the most delicate of Wested's, and besides it already went thru a shrinking process and readily crinkles and wrinkles. The hot shower treatment is generally for the smooth finished leathers to rapidly add character and to force it to conform and fit in a matter of hours as it dries.

Just wear it. It will quickly do its thing.

What should I do about the sleeves? They hang below my knuckles. They're 24 inches but I think I should've gone with 22.

It doesn't look too bad, just wear it and let nature take its course.

trust me- the sleeves will be the first part of the jacket to shrink. As you wear it, especially while driving or doing any activity using your arms, wrinkles will form pretty quick, which equal 'shorteninng'. Lotion up the jacket really good and just wear it.

Kokopelli wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:54 am trust me- the sleeves will be the first part of the jacket to shrink. As you wear it, especially while driving or doing any activity using your arms, wrinkles will form pretty quick, which equal 'shorteninng'. Lotion up the jacket really good and just wear it.

Thanks! That's lotion should I use?

Everyone is going to say Pecards, and I use that, too...the creams are great, but I think for that lamb, the 'Leather Care Lotion' would be the best- its more viscous.