Club Obi Wan

Hi, I’m after the advice as I’m currently learning, again, to crack a bull whip. It’s a royal pain having to trek to the local park, early in the morning, to practice. However there I am. Picture the scene. Whip, check, gloves in case it’s colder than I thought, check, safety goggles, check, remembered to have looked again at a Whip Basics video on You Tube, check.

I start of trying with the whip behind me and flicking it forward over my shoulder. The whip is curling behind me, like in the video link posted on Indiana Croft’s post about his, I have to say very nice, whip in a thread earlier. I throw my arm forward, from 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock, like the WB video said. SWOOSH............. and then nothing. The only discernible load noice I heard was when the whip hit the back of my arm. This happened a number of times, along with hitting my lower legs. I appreciate the latter was due to the whip being to far round behind me, before throwing my arm forward.

I also tried bringing the whip forward, along the ground, and flicking my wrist up at the end. The morning dew flew of the end of the whip beautifully, but still no crack. Now I ‘may’ have had a couple of cracks, but I couldn’t be sure. They certainly weren’t ‘crisp’ cracks like I’ve seen in the videos of others.

Indiana Croft, and others, make it look so easy. I first tried learning about ten years ago, however life, work and injury all got in the way. Back then I was able to get the odd crack. However I could never work out what I did differently, on the times I managed to crack the whip vs when it didn’t crack. This time I tried staying relaxed and not trying to ‘add power’ as it were, trying to let the whip do the work. However I think I was trying to hard, at the end, with the second crack. Probably out of frustration and, yes, that made no difference

Can anyone give me some pointers please. I’m going out again tomorrow morning. I will be wearing a shirt with long sleeves next time.

I can recommend Adam Winrich's videos.

What whip are you using?

Tony Layzel is the maker of the whip I first used, and will again, and Giovanni Celeste today.

Are Adams videos available on line, so I can watch them on my phone etc while out? If not do you know any decent teachers who do?

https://www.youtube.com/user/AdamCWM/videos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you. I’ll need to take some time to find the ‘basic’ stuff, that can be done with a bullwhip. However in one video I saw he mentioned that hitting yourself in the back etc is often when the whip is ‘sloppy’ behind you.

I think what I might have been doing wrong is having the whip on the ground, behind me, and pulling it forward. I ‘think’ I’ll need to try and bring it back, then forward, with all the whip still in the air. I’m not sure if that’s right, but I’ll give it a go. I’m anticipating that trying to keep 10ft of whip moving is not going to be as easy as it looks.

For the cattleman's crack - sweeping the whip up in front then back behind you is just a "wind up" to get the whip hanging in the air behind you before you bring it forward. Newbies usually wait too long (so the whip starts to settle to the ground behind them) or not long enough (so the whip is still beside them moving backwards). Either way, the whip is in the wrong place and you will likely hit yourself from behind. Practice the "wind up" several times without trying to crack - turn your head and watch the whip move, counting almost "one Mississippi" while the whip gets behind you. Once you are confident in the time it takes until the whip is hanging behind you, then start the forward motion, straight forward, like throwing a spear.

For the upwards flick - keep trying! It took me an hour in the park before it "clicked" for me. Some beginners seem to git it quickly, most struggle for a while. The cattleman's crack is VERY forgiving which is why it's good to start with; each motion sets up the next one. All the other cracks are more sensitive to timing and arm motion, and will take longer to master.

Don't get discouraged when you fail. We all have been there. You will get it soon, believe me.

@InexorableTash Thanks for this, that’s very helpful. I will try that tomorrow. Is there any guidance you can give me about timing, for the upwards flick?

@tomek9210 a thank you so much for your supportive comments. It’s very kind and really appreciated.

I just got my first crack in last weekend so I’m a extremely green at all things whips. I definitely get better results when I let the whip do it’s thing and not try to power through the motions. A little finesse goes a long way

Here is another thread with some helpful advise and a video posted by me of Anthony De Longis (who training HF for CS).
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... ny#p932707" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Part of the challenge you are having is learning with a 10' whip. When I took Dan Borton's whip cracking class at a Queen Mary Summit, despite following his directions I could not get my 10' whip to crack. He came over to watch me, shook his head slightly and said, "Everyone wants a 10' whip because it looks cool on your belt." He loaned me an 8' whip and I got it to crack on the first throw and crack consistently. After using the 8" for a while I switched back to the 10' and was able to get it to crack, but definitely felt the difference in the added length. The length changes the timing of the motions. I've since gotten rid of the 10' and have an 7' that I love to crack and even better, it's easy to teach others how to crack a whip. And it looks just fine on my belt when I cosplay.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Indiana Jeff wrote:Here is another thread with some helpful advise and a video posted by me of Anthony De Longis (who training HF for CS).
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... ny#p932707" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Part of the challenge you are having is learning with a 10' whip. When I took Dan Borton's whip cracking class at a Queen Mary Summit, despite following his directions I could not get my 10' whip to crack. He came over to watch me, shook his head slightly and said, "Everyone wants a 10' whip because it looks cool on your belt." He loaned me an 8' whip and I got it to crack on the first throw and crack consistently. After using the 8" for a while I switched back to the 10' and was able to get it to crack, but definitely felt the difference in the added length. The length changes the timing of the motions. I've since gotten rid of the 10' and have an 7' that I love to crack and even better, it's easy to teach others how to crack a whip. And it looks just fine on my belt when I cosplay.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

That’s the video I was referring to earlier. It’s really good. That’s how I was holding my whip, with it curling backwards in my hand. Rather than forwards.

I suspected that the length of the whip would be a factor. However 10ft is what I have, so 10ft is what will need to use.

Choke up on it!

Just kidding

By the way, how old are the whips? Are they broken in? Just curious for a theory of mine.

Breaking in has some influence on how easy the whip cracks.
But in my opinion weight and balance is far more important. Too light and ill balanced whip will be difficult to crack.

What whips exactly do you have?

This is a really good tutorial.

https://youtu.be/F68--ZFY7EI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He’s using a stock whip, but the principle is the same.

The challenge with the 10’ whip is the waiting for the whip to travel up and over the handle before bringing the whip forward. If you are getting hit in the arm and back I suspect you are bringing the whip forward too soon.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

tomek9210 wrote:Breaking in has some influence on how easy the whip cracks.
But in my opinion weight and balance is far more important. Too light and ill balanced whip will be difficult to crack.

What whips exactly do you have?

Agreed, but I'm still curious about age. I have 2 whips by Nolan, one several years old, one just a few months. Similar balance and construction. Yet the older one is much easier to crack. So again, curious.

Well you’ve used the older one a lot more than the new one. New whips take a while to “break in”.

Uh ..yes

Raider, how long is the whip?

Indiana Jeff wrote:This is a really good tutorial.

https://youtu.be/F68--ZFY7EI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He’s using a stock whip, but the principle is the same.

The challenge with the 10’ whip is the waiting for the whip to travel up and over the handle before bringing the whip forward. If you are getting hit in the arm and back I suspect you are bringing the whip forward too soon.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Well I was bringing the whip forward, after laying it out on the ground behind me first. I thought that would eliminate the ‘timing’ thing. Should that have worked, or does it really need the ‘backwards’ momentum immediately prior to being pulled back forward?

IndianaJustin wrote:Choke up on it!

Just kidding

By the way, how old are the whips? Are they broken in? Just curious for a theory of mine.

Oldest is 12 years. However it’s not been used all that time. I started to learn with it but can’t really say how much ‘use’ it’s had. The second whip was bought from a member here, about 3 yrs old and not used a heck of a lot. It’s the latter whip I’m currently using. I’m not sure how much use would constitute breaking in. I’m also not sure what use it would have to be. Clearly cracking it beautifully would obviously count. However would time hitting yourself with it, and not managing to get it to crack count too?

@Canyon Both are 10 ft.

Indiana Jeff wrote:This is a really good tutorial.

https://youtu.be/F68--ZFY7EI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He’s using a stock whip, but the principle is the same.

The challenge with the 10’ whip is the waiting for the whip to travel up and over the handle before bringing the whip forward. If you are getting hit in the arm and back I suspect you are bringing the whip forward too soon.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

That video was REALLY helpful. Thank you. Seeing the amount of time you need to wait, before initiating forward movement, was key. I thought I’d been waiting long enough. However today, after watching that video, I discovered I need to wait loooonnger.

Update

So, this probably won’t come as a shock to you, but I tried my best to follow the advice given here, and in the video links, and IT WORKED!!

Now it clearly didn’t work every time, and some of the noise was more ‘pffft’ than ‘crack’, but I got some really loud cracks too. There were more people walking passed today. I think they paid me more attention as A) there was no fog, and B) I was getting the whip to crack so I kind of looked like I knew what I was doing, rather than appearing to be wrestling with a gigantic unruly dog.

The bottom flick still ‘won’t work’, but hey, baby steps. I did, in my over confidence, try something more advanced. I can’t remember the name but I tried whirling it in a circle around my head, before changing the direction to get it to crack. I couldn’t get the change of direction correct at all. I only ended up wrapping myself in the whip.

I still don’t know why I can’t get a crack by simply flicking the whip forward, from laying on the ground. Also, can you help me with the correct grip. I’m trying to throw the whip with it bending backwards, when I hold the handle up in the air, rather than forwards. However as I drawer the whip back and this again the whip wants to turn in my hand, so it bends forwards rather than backwards. Also, should I be holding the whip like say gripping a hammer or pool cue? I found I was tending to hold the whip with my thumb up, at the back of the handle as you throw. Is that right, or should I be doing all I can to avoid this ‘bad habit’ now?

Once again, thanks to all of you. I REALLY appreciate your help and guidance. Weather permitting I’m going out again tomorrow morning. I will follow any further advice given then.

Raider Of The Lost Ark wrote:@Canyon Both are 10 ft.

The reason I ask is I was going to suggest that you start with a shorter whip. Even if you are on the tall side, you may find it helps.

I'm 5'2" and in my case, I know starting with a shorter whip really helped.

Thanks Canyon. I’m not very tall, under 6ft. I suspected it would be easier with a shorter whip. However I’ll have to persevere with what I have. The information provided so far has really helped.

However as I drawer the whip back and this again the whip wants to turn in my hand, so it bends forwards rather than backwards. Also, should I be holding the whip like say gripping a hammer or pool cue? I found I was tending to hold the whip with my thumb up, at the back of the handle as you throw.

I would say that sounds correct in terms of how to hold the whip.

When you are holding the whip in front of you with the bend backward toward you (opposite the direction you are throwing the whip - the Anthony De Longis method) your palm should be facing forward (toward the direction you are throwing the whip). When you bring your hand/arm down to lay out the whip behind you, your palm should be facing behind you and if your arm was behind your body, your palm should be facing upward. As you bring your arm forward, your hand should remain in this orientation. As you say, the whip may want to turn in your hand or you'll be inclined to twist your wrist, but that will cause the whip to fall out of plane next to your body.

You want the whip to be in one two dimensional plane next to your body through the entire crack. Keeping your hand/wrist from twisting accomplishes that.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Thanks Indiana Jeff. However should my thumb be sticking up, trying to stop the handle bending back as it were, or wrapped around the handle, as if holding a hammer?

Also I think my palm has been facing in, towards me. So I suppose my throwing has been like marching with a whip.

I don't think your thumb placement makes that much difference. The key (to me) is keeping my palm in the correct orientation.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Raider Of The Lost Ark wrote:I did, in my over confidence, try something more advanced. I can’t remember the name but I tried whirling it in a circle around my head, before changing the direction to get it to crack. I couldn’t get the change of direction correct at all. I only ended up wrapping myself in the whip.

That is the overhead crack, essentially a variation on the caddlemen crack. It's the same concept, but instead of a vertical plane next to your body, it is a horizontal plane over your head.

Same instructor with a good tutorial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gmP_aRcIsc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Thanks again Indiana Jeff. Holding the whip, with my palm facing backwards as you suggest, puts my thumb to the ‘inside’. The way I was holding it previously meant my thumb was on the ‘top’. It kind of ‘braced’ the handle as I threw it forward. Holding it differently negates the ‘need’ to have my thumb sticking up. It is SO hard to keep the whip in the same position in my hand, so that it wants to fall backwards, over my hand, rather than forwards, away from it. Has anyone managed this, or is it impossible and you just have to keep moving it back?

I held the whip as you advised and I think it improves things. It’s a bit hard to tell as I may be more consistent with my timing. However I managed 20 cracks in a row yesterday, some not as good as others but all definitely ‘cracks’. I believe your advice played no small part in that. It’s a massive improvement for me. When my arm tired I used my other arm. I figured I’m starting from scratch so why not. Who knows when my ability to use my other arm will mean I can get the whip to attach to the point I need, to swing to safety

Thanks for the other link. I’m back to work now, so unable to get to the park early. As soon as I’m off again I’ll be back down there to try out the overhead crack, and the one from the side.

Ok so on most of my days off, since my last post, it’s been raining. Boooo. I’ve had a go at the overhead crack, but mostly hit myself. It hurts. So I tried the side flick but couldn’t get it to work. However I’ve been out this morning and slowed the side crack right down, and I got results. Yay! I’m trying to learn it with my left hand too, progress there is slower.

What I’d like to ask is that, on some of the videos I’ve watched, it looks like their hand goes from ‘behind’ them, to ‘in front’ of them, and they flick their wrist as it passes their side. However I’ve been getting more consistent results when my hand kind of stops, when out at my side, and I flick it from there.

I’m not sure which is the correct way, please let me know as I want to get it right, and if it takes longer to learn the correct way, so be it. Thanks for your help.

I keep hitting myself in the butt. I believe that's the "plumber's crack."

Nosirrah wrote:I keep hitting myself in the butt. I believe that's the "plumber's crack."

Nosirrah wrote:I keep hitting myself in the butt. I believe that's the "plumber's crack."

Lol .. ha! .. thats the best joke I've heard all year!

Nosirrah wrote:I keep hitting myself in the butt. I believe that's the "plumber's crack."