Club Obi Wan

With the new 4K release some better screen shots are appearing. Here are a few good shots of the cloth jacket used as Indy runs to Jock’s plane as the dust billows off of it. This jacket was a Western Costume creation made specifically for this scene.

The reason it was cloth was to have the dust billow off, correct?

Yes, that is the story as we understand it. They couldn't get enough dust/fullers earth to stick to the leather jacket for the desired effect.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Let alone the fact jumping into the river wearing a leather jacket and swimming would have been extremely difficult. It was hard enough wearing boots!
Regards! Michaelson

Maybe this is just me, but I still see a leather jacket in this scene. Has anyone ever confirmed with D. Landis that a cloth jacket was actually made?

I don’t know about that, but I’ve heard that dirt doesn’t really stick to leather like it does to cloth.

Landis was no longer involved with the project as she had left for her wedding early in the production. This was the last scene shot in Hawaii at the end of the film production, and Western Costume confirmed the creation of this single jacket years ago. Unfortunately it was sold off in an inventory reduction sale at WC back in the 90’s before anyone knew (or cared) about its significance.

Bear in mind, Landis also insists Indy wore Redwing work boots because that’s what she spec’d, though we ALL know that’s incorrect, so she is not the final word on what was actually USED during filming.

Regards ! Michaelson

Dunross76 wrote:Maybe this is just me, but I still see a leather jacket in this scene. Has anyone ever confirmed with D. Landis that a cloth jacket was actually made?

It's obvious it's not leather from the scene in the movie. You have to see the clip in motion in 4k resolution.

So they tested the leather jacket with dust before they went to Hawaii?

I’ve heard the dust reasoning for years, but personally I always believed it was due to the planned swing into the river and swim to the plane that made the cloth version the choice.

Regards! M

xmasters wrote:

Dunross76 wrote:Maybe this is just me, but I still see a leather jacket in this scene. Has anyone ever confirmed with D. Landis that a cloth jacket was actually made?

It's obvious it's not leather from the scene in the movie. You have to see the clip in motion in 4k resolution.

Thanks for the suggestion. I watched it and I just don't see it, but I too heard and read over the years that there was a cloth jacket.

Michaelson wrote:I’ve heard the dust reasoning for years, but personally I always believed it was due to the planned swing into the river and swim to the plane that made the cloth version the choice.

Regards! M

Yes, this seems more plausible. Maybe someday a screen-used jacket will resurface.

Michaelson wrote:I’ve heard the dust reasoning for years, but personally I always believed it was due to the planned swing into the river and swim to the plane that made the cloth version the choice.

Regards! M

I would agree more to this since as Indy pops over the hill, I still see telltale signs of a leather jacket (rumpled arms and the way the collar sits).

Also in visiting Kipu Ranch, I can tell you that the locations of these shots—though I'm not certain where the back shot entering the woods was done—the hill and the river bank are a good 10 minute ride apart. I'm sure they were filmed at different times and I also wonder if the entering the woods shot is even Ford. His gate seems a little different to me than Ford's normal run. So jackets could be interspersed easily.

The shot above of him running over the camera is the only moment where you can make a call on it being a different jacket, it moves differently and looks like thick terrycloth. All the front shots of Ford running face on to the camera it could could still be the leather jacket.

Mike wrote:Also in visiting Kipu Ranch, I can tell you that the locations of these shots—though I'm not certain where the back shot entering the woods was done—the hill and the river bank are a good 10 minute ride apart. I'm sure they were filmed at different times and I also wonder if the entering the woods shot is even Ford. His gate seems a little different to me than Ford's normal run. So jackets could be interspersed easily.

Would make sense that this part of the sequence was shot with a second unit. Not seeing HF's face, it would have been easy to shoot this two second run with another performer while HF was working on other things. Especially since the Hawaii scenes were at the end of the shoot and SS was trying to wrap things up.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

It's funny, I remember looking at this scene in the mid 1980's on video and being convinced it was a cloth jacket - I would never have believed that decades later this notion might become cannon.

What back in the 80s made you believe it was cloth? Like I’m just thinking about resolution back then compared to now.

So is the Wested cotton jacket an approximation of this? (I never knew about the cloth jacket until now)

https://www.wested.com/raiders-of-the-l ... 1976-p.asp

Hedji wrote:So is the Wested cotton jacket an approximation of this? (I never knew about the cloth jacket until now)

https://www.wested.com/raiders-of-the-l ... 1976-p.asp

No it isn't. They've created those as warmer weather jackets, and more affordable for some I suppose.

Actually if memory serves, we did first ask Peter to have a go at a cotton jacket because of the film. Folks with memories better than mine will have to chime in though.

I really don't see a cloth jacket in this either ..

To me it makes no sense that they would create such a thing for one small sequence that was shot right at the end filming? .. i mean why would you. ... the simplest answers are usually right and production crews do things on the 'fly' all the time using whatever is lying around .. if you want to get dust to fly off a jacket you slather it under the collar and across the shoulders and or make a simple 'lightweight pocket' of some kind.

There is also, and correct me if i'm wrong.. no mention of it in any documentation (certainly none that ive seen) and nothing in the archive seems to exist that supports the theory of a cloth jacket being used. There has however been mention of a 'cloth or gauze' panel being gaffe taped to the back that held an amount of fullers earth dust ... whenever ive watched this especially as he runs away into the wood and towards camera near the end it looks like you can see something (that isn't jacket) flapping up high in the breeze around his shoulders .. to me this is a leather jacket with either a panel or patch full of fullers earth and extra on the shoulders and collar ..

As to the use of it in the river .. well we also know one of the Raiders jackets has suffered what appears to be heavy water damage .. presumably from jumping in the water?. As to swimming in a lambskin jacket dont see why that would be more tricky than a cloth one .. you're still wearing a jacket ..

all just my opinion btw

IIRC the cloth jacket was originally the toile for fittings and mock up etc. At least that's how the story went. And that is how they'd normally do it, even or especially with leather. Whip up the basic design in cotton quickly and cheaply, make sure the image on paper matches the result, do some basic fittings, etc. And wardrobe departments would keep it on hand in case of need to make more pieces or other contingencies.

Which would make sense if it could be proven… having known Peter for a while before he passed I’ve never heard him mention that he ever made cloth mock-ups …for any jackets. Not sure if any other vendors do but the fit and fall would be way off. it would seem very odd to do so ..

Having finally got my 4K Apple TV to play properly tonight … the images are amazing and there looks to be a cloth panel across the shoulders and a smaller gauze bag type thing lower down filled with dust that is very clear as he heads into the trees perused by the Hovitos and again running to the plane in the wide shot the jacket lower edges are where they should be but above each shoulder there is again some kind of panel that’s flapping up quite visibly above the shoulder level as he’s running ….

Peter wouldn’t have said anything about it because he had nothing to do with it. As I posted above, Western Costume made it for use by the second unit in Hawaii.

Regards! Michaelson

Western Costume made it *specifically* for that? I always heard they made it just as a mock up for Nadoolman et al to take a look at and approve the design, which made sense since WCC is just down the street up in North Hollywood. And then they eventually found a use for it.

That’s what we were told, yes, when they were interviewed by Michael Key of Makeup Magazine, then webmaster of Indygear, back about 20 or so years ago when he personally visited the shop.

The jacket was no longer in inventory when he visited, but he did see one of the original shirts was still there at the time.

The jacket was a one off for quick use and then done.

Accept the info or not. All we can report is what we were told in real time by the living participants who were still active in the business when this information was originally gathered. It’s been a constant source of amusement and occasional frustration how this information continues to be transformed by the survivors to match their personal narrative as those original participants retire and/or pass away.

The winners/survivors get to write the final history, no matter how it gets spun.

Regards! Michaelson

Kinda like the ol what color was the hat, brown or grey.

Croft

Sorta, though it took CS to finally get THAT confirmation!

As stated in the 'history' on the main site, WC made jacket mock ups that DN took with her to England for the creation of the leather jackets, which was probably what is being remembered.

For example, Wilson's is prominently mentioned in that history as well. You NEVER hear THEM mentioned anymore! Once again history being erased to match the current narrative. Here's a quote directly from DN herself from 9/20/2004 to our administrative account:
The first 10 jackets were made - because Lucas was cutting costs - at the famous old Hollywood shop of Wilson's House of Suede & Leather! That leather pealed when I attempted to age it, and I plead with Lucas for more budget and with Harrison's help - was able to make a new set at Berman's.
All the best,
Dr. Deborah Nadoolman Landis
President, The Costume Designers Guild, Local 892)

Anyway, the jacket under discussion now wasn't one of those mock ups. It was a needed quick one-off, per WC in that interview years ago, and was then returned to WC for disposal.

Regards! M

That is interesting that they supposedly did it just for that one reason. Budget constraints aside -- a one-off in cotton wouldn't be all that expensive -- it is interesting that they would even bother for that kind of minutiae, especially considering some of the other goofs and quirks in the filming. I remember back when people tried to say it was because of the run and the heat and people scouring the DVD releases looking for a cotton jacket in the Tunisia scenes. It certainly adds to the list of reasons that makes one wish they would release the other hour-plus of footage that ended up on the cutting room floor to see what else they may have intended in that scene to make them order a special jacket.

You and me both!

There's lots of little items that just occurred on the run (like the gloves, for instance) that just happened in passing that no one remembers, or didn't even give it much thought until asked directly, and then it's a 'OH YEAH! Forgot about that....' kind of reaction.

Problem is, we're losing all those folks to the passing of the years.

As time goes by, I feel so fortunate to have had the opportunity to talk to those folks who were the actual backbone of the production and just did this stuff on the fly who LOVED to talk to shop with us fans.

In later productions, though, they got pressed harder and harder by people they just backed away and it was extremely difficult to get any type insider information.

Regards! Michaelson

That is one of the fun things being around the film industry; the prop and costume and set crew LOVE to talk shop. The old timers are especially fun because often they can describe the most minute details about kitbashing and wire gauge and paint shade but then other times it's just "I don't know; there was no time and it was what we had." And that latter response can drive fans nuts, but it's the truth. Especially productions 40+ years ago before sequels became de rigueur and prop collecting a huge business. Now everything on set is so catalogued it's almost lost its character.

I actually know a gun broker who refuses to sell S&W M1917s to Indy fans because he's worried they'll start sawing the barrel on 100 year old pistols.

Illinois_Jones wrote:
I actually know a gun broker who refuses to sell S&W M1917s to Indy fans because he's worried they'll start sawing the barrel on 100 year old pistols.

GOOD man!!!

Regards! M

Same thing happened with Graflex flash bulb handles. Star Wars fans wanted to make light sabers out of them.

IJJTM wrote:What back in the 80s made you believe it was cloth? Like I’m just thinking about resolution back then compared to now.

It wasn't a close look at resolution and I can't remember exactly why anymore but I guess it was just a hunch, the way it flew about in the running and the fact that it went into the water. Pure speculation on my part.

We just finished this custom Waxed Cotton Adventure Jacket for a customer and it reminded me of this discussion. Thought you guys would like to see it before we shipped it off:

Noice, but is it the way the picture was taken, but that seems long in the body.
Or are these spec;d as per usall from Magnoli.
But that looks very nice, nice flat finish, is it brown or more black.
Croft

That's dark brown and made to the customer's requested specs (which also includes a plainer back without the usual gusseted back panel and top yoke).

Don’t know how i missed this jacket on your site, as I look in every night looking for certain item.

May no flap around like a cloth jacket, but looks nice.

Croft

I do like waxed cotton jackets.