Club Obi Wan

Does anyone has a read on the difference between the adVintage masterpiece hats and their regular hand-made beaver options? I see a lot of praise for aV hats here, so I can't really imagine why to pay for the masterpiece option. Am I missing something?

Also, does anyone have an aV hat in "True Sable" they can share photos of in natural light? Thanks!

I don't have have one, but am tentatively saving up for an Advintage Beaver, and have been thinking about going for a MasterPiece.

From the description of the MasterPiece, "The MasterPiece Fedora is blocked in a special method, that lets the felt hairs re-arrange and merge, which significantly increases the persistence of the hat."

And also "I use extra large felt rawbodies for the special blocking method, that is why the MasterPiece Fedora is only available in a smaller range of sizes and colours"

So, using extra large felt rawbodies that only come in smaller sizes, my assumption is that this lengthier process of hat making compresses/shrinks/"re-arranges and merges" the felt into a very tight felt, which would lessen it's need for reblocking, and leave it less susceptible to change (a good thing)

I'd love for someone else to pipe in, but that's what I was able to conclude from the description.

Thanks! Yeah, I saw all that online and I guess I'm wondering, since the regular aV beaver hats sound wonderful, when/why it would be worth paying the premium for the masterpiece hat. I'm sure it IS better made, I'm just unclear how noticeable the difference is to regular Joe's and if it's worth the price difference. So I guess I'm curious about the Masterpiece v. Regular from the owner/wearer perspective rather than the creator perspective

I'm getting married in July, and my fiancee wanted me to have something special to wear for our wedding so she suggested a wedding hat. After much research, including the video below, I purchased the Advintage Masterpiece. The hat arrived last week, and it is absolutely stunning! I've owned other brands and styles of felt hats, but this is my first fedora. The quality of the pure beaver felt and of Thomas' work can be immediately felt and seen.

https://youtu.be/jkAeNzsEItU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TexHill wrote:I'm getting married in July, and my fiancee wanted me to have something special to wear for our wedding so she suggested a wedding hat. After much research, including the video below, I purchased the Advintage Masterpiece. The hat arrived last week, and it is absolutely stunning! I've owned other brands and styles of felt hats, but this is my first fedora. The quality of the pure beaver felt and of Thomas' work can be immediately felt and seen.

https://youtu.be/jkAeNzsEItU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for sharing! So cool to see the hat box it comes with (a nice surprise!)

Also, I think Thomas said he can’t do a SOC in a masterpiece, that’s what I remember him telling me
I think

IndianaJustin wrote:Also, I think Thomas said he can’t do a SOC in a masterpiece, that’s what I remember him telling me
I think

I believe that you are mistaken because I initially ordered a SoC version, and he never indicated that he couldn't do it. I later changed it to the Raven bar version out of personal preference. The only restriction that I was made aware of was one of the color choices because of a head size issue.

From his website:
I use extra large felt rawbodies for the special blocking method, that is why the MasterPiece Fedora is only available in a smaller range of sizes and colours:

True-Sable: 530mm - 610mm head circumference
Sable, Raiders-Sable, Light-Sable: 530mm - 590mm head circumference

I’m often mistaken. That is what I was told however. Perhaps his methods have changed…In any case, I would ask before assuming

If that's the case, I would assume because it's odd to call a purposefully beat-up hat a masterpiece.

Again, I may be wrong but I’m recalling a conversation with Thomas about this because I was thinking of getting a Masterpiece but wanted an SOC and I thought he said no. That was in January or February of this year. Of course, I could be sniffing something and hallucinating the whole thing. Probably best just to ask to be sure. Maybe it was due to felt body size as I’m a 600-605mm. I don’t remember exactly.

I don't have an Av Masterpiece but I do have a regular Av beaver fedora and I gotta tell you it's amazing. You get a top notch felt hat with some great customization for good price.

My guess would be that the main difference in manufacture is that he puts it through more steaming and shrinking and leaves it on the block longer. Perhaps a lot longer, allowing more time for the fibers to arrange and settle in that position. So you're not only paying for the extra work, but the added time of taking up the space in the shop plus the opportunity cost of not being able to produce another hat on that block for a while.

In my experience, the longer you leave that felt on the block the far less likely it is to shrink and warp.

Illinois_Jones wrote:In my experience, the longer you leave that felt on the block the far less likely it is to shrink and warp.

That makes sense. Have any longtime (regular) aV owners had issues with the hats shrinking or warping?

Is this something where you save in the long run on reblocking, etc? Or are the hats pretty hearty as is?

I'm curious if this is an instance of diminishing marginal returns where the hat could definitely be better, but that it the big quality leap is from something else to aV but from aV regular to aV masterpiece is choosing between 2 things that are both so good, it doesn't really matter which one you choose.

mr_alex wrote:

Illinois_Jones wrote:In my experience, the longer you leave that felt on the block the far less likely it is to shrink and warp.

That makes sense. Have any longtime (regular) aV owners had issues with the hats shrinking or warping?

Is this something where you save in the long run on reblocking, etc? Or are the hats pretty hearty as is?

I'm curious if this is an instance of diminishing marginal returns where the hat could definitely be better, but that it the big quality leap is from something else to aV but from aV regular to aV masterpiece is choosing between 2 things that are both so good, it doesn't really matter which one you choose.

100% beaver will always outlast and out perform 100% rabbit or a rabbit/beaver blend. That is why I bought the Masterpiece.

mr_alex wrote:

Illinois_Jones wrote:In my experience, the longer you leave that felt on the block the far less likely it is to shrink and warp.

That makes sense. Have any longtime (regular) aV owners had issues with the hats shrinking or warping?

Is this something where you save in the long run on reblocking, etc? Or are the hats pretty hearty as is?

I'm curious if this is an instance of diminishing marginal returns where the hat could definitely be better, but that it the big quality leap is from something else to aV but from aV regular to aV masterpiece is choosing between 2 things that are both so good, it doesn't really matter which one you choose.

Honestly, I don't know that the average person would even be able to tell the difference between them beyond maybe the pouncing. And truly I don't know that it would make all that much difference unless maybe you really were planning on using it in the jungle or being dragged behind a truck. All of Thomas's hats are Portuguese beaver -- I can't remember the last time he offered rabbit -- and AFAIK both the regular and the Masterpiece use the same felt bodies, it's just that he spends more time on the Masterpiece.

IJJTM wrote:If that's the case, I would assume because it's odd to call a purposefully beat-up hat a masterpiece.

Also odd to call a hat with glued liners a masterpiece.


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IndianaJustin wrote:Again, I may be wrong but I’m recalling a conversation with Thomas about this because I was thinking of getting a Masterpiece but wanted an SOC and I thought he said no. That was in January or February of this year. Of course, I could be sniffing something and hallucinating the whole thing. Probably best just to ask to be sure. Maybe it was due to felt body size as I’m a 600-605mm. I don’t remember exactly.

No, you're correct! You can't get an aV SoC as a masterpiece fedora. After searching around, I found Thomas' note about it here. https://www.advintage.de/index.php/2019 ... y/?lang=en

Please notice that I can make any fedora shape you like, from the Indy hats to all classic shapes, but the „Streets of Cairo“ Fedora is not available as MasterPiece fedora.

Don't know why, but there it is. In the end, that made my decision for me, so I'll be waiting for a 100% beaver SoC fedora in True Sable. Still curious about the regular/masterpiece difference if anyone has more info to share!

mr_alex wrote:

IndianaJustin wrote:Again, I may be wrong but I’m recalling a conversation with Thomas about this because I was thinking of getting a Masterpiece but wanted an SOC and I thought he said no. That was in January or February of this year. Of course, I could be sniffing something and hallucinating the whole thing. Probably best just to ask to be sure. Maybe it was due to felt body size as I’m a 600-605mm. I don’t remember exactly.

No, you're correct! You can't get an aV SoC as a masterpiece fedora. After searching around, I found Thomas' note about it here. https://www.advintage.de/index.php/2019 ... y/?lang=en

Please notice that I can make any fedora shape you like, from the Indy hats to all classic shapes, but the „Streets of Cairo“ Fedora is not available as MasterPiece fedora.

Don't know why, but there it is. In the end, that made my decision for me, so I'll be waiting for a 100% beaver SoC fedora in True Sable. Still curious about the regular/masterpiece difference if anyone has more info to share!

Ah, so I wasn't sniffing something!...this time

Garrett wrote:

IJJTM wrote:If that's the case, I would assume because it's odd to call a purposefully beat-up hat a masterpiece.

Also odd to call a hat with glued liners a masterpiece.


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Pretty sure he does that so it can easily be taken out, but I’ve seen him see it in on request.

IJJTM wrote:

Garrett wrote:

IJJTM wrote:If that's the case, I would assume because it's odd to call a purposefully beat-up hat a masterpiece.

Also odd to call a hat with glued liners a masterpiece.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty sure he does that so it can easily be taken out, but I’ve seen him see it in on request.

I dunno, I think it's easier to undo a few basting stitches than it is to try and clean up glue from felt.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aZh0U3UtWhA&t=664s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Based on the hat shown in this video, his liner sewing is pretty extensive.

jlee562 wrote:

IJJTM wrote:

Garrett wrote:

IJJTM wrote:If that's the case, I would assume because it's odd to call a purposefully beat-up hat a masterpiece.

Also odd to call a hat with glued liners a masterpiece.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty sure he does that so it can easily be taken out, but I’ve seen him see it in on request.

I dunno, I think it's easier to undo a few basting stitches than it is to try and clean up glue from felt.

Absolutely correct, Jared. Bob took thrice as long removing the glue than he would have with stitches when re-furbishing the 2 Advintage hats I received. Shame to see such high quality felt finished in this unprofessional manner. There's really no excuse for it on a high-end hat IMHO.

Garrett wrote:

jlee562 wrote:

IJJTM wrote:

Garrett wrote:

IJJTM wrote:If that's the case, I would assume because it's odd to call a purposefully beat-up hat a masterpiece.

Also odd to call a hat with glued liners a masterpiece.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty sure he does that so it can easily be taken out, but I’ve seen him see it in on request.

I dunno, I think it's easier to undo a few basting stitches than it is to try and clean up glue from felt.

Absolutely correct, Jared. Bob took thrice as long removing the glue than he would have with stitches when re-furbishing the 2 Advintage hats I received. Shame to see such high quality felt finished in this unprofessional manner. There's really no excuse for it on a high-end hat IMHO.

Here is Thomas' reasoning for gluing the lining:

" Why are the hat linings glued in and not sewed in?
The hat lining is the first piece of a hat which is replaced, because it will discolour because of sweat and maybe it will also smell a bit after some time. Instead of sewing in the hat linings we glue them, because each stitch of a needle will hurt the felt of the hat. If a hat lining is replaced several times the felt will become more and more instable, which can be a problem when reblocking the hat. We use a glue based on natural rubber (caoutchouc), which can be removed resisue-free and which will absolutely not hurt the felt. This makes your hat much more durable.

If you still would like your hat lining to be sewn in and not glued, just let me know. There will be no extra costs."

TexHill wrote:

Garrett wrote:

jlee562 wrote:

IJJTM wrote:

Garrett wrote:Also odd to call a hat with glued liners a masterpiece.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty sure he does that so it can easily be taken out, but I’ve seen him see it in on request.

I dunno, I think it's easier to undo a few basting stitches than it is to try and clean up glue from felt.

Absolutely correct, Jared. Bob took thrice as long removing the glue than he would have with stitches when re-furbishing the 2 Advintage hats I received. Shame to see such high quality felt finished in this unprofessional manner. There's really no excuse for it on a high-end hat IMHO.

Here is Thomas' reasoning for gluing the lining:

" Why are the hat linings glued in and not sewed in?
The hat lining is the first piece of a hat which is replaced, because it will discolour because of sweat and maybe it will also smell a bit after some time. Instead of sewing in the hat linings we glue them, because each stitch of a needle will hurt the felt of the hat. If a hat lining is replaced several times the felt will become more and more instable, which can be a problem when reblocking the hat. We use a glue based on natural rubber (caoutchouc), which can be removed resisue-free and which will absolutely not hurt the felt. This makes your hat much more durable.

If you still would like your hat lining to be sewn in and not glued, just let me know. There will be no extra costs."

There are some hatters - apparently AdVintage is one - who feel that needles harm the integrity of the felt. DBarJ advertises hand sewn sweats based on this logic. I would tend to think the shallow stitches for the liner are negligible, and just personally, I have only ever gotten one liner to the point where it would benefit from a replacement. Of course we all sweat differently, so YMMV.

But just for the record, sewing in the liner is the industry standard practice. E.G. From Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovation:

Good quality trimmings, neatly sewn on, will dress up any hat, while the most beautifully finished hat, carelessly trimmed, will fail to please your customers.

Maybe Thomas has an easier method for removing his glue, but the aforementioned Bob (of Black Sheep Hatworks) is something of a hat wizard and if he couldn't easily remove it, I would definitely say to request a stitched in liner.

I think I need to contact Thomas, been kickin the idea of a beaver in SOC from him, but a comment was made he won’t do a SOC in Masterpiece.
On his site/blog he has one in distressed, maybe he’s decided to start. I just don’t want distressed.
I know that sounds funny coming from me, but my concern is if it gets wet. I want a hat tha can get wet and take it.

I have ToD and it’s held up nicely.

Croft

Indiana Croft wrote:I think I need to contact Thomas, been kickin the idea of a beaver in SOC from him, but a comment was made he won’t do a SOC in Masterpiece.
On his site/blog he has one in distressed, maybe he’s decided to start. I just don’t want distressed.
I know that sounds funny coming from me, but my concern is if it gets wet. I want a hat tha can get wet and take it.

I have ToD and it’s held up nicely.

Croft

I saw that hat on his forum.
Freaking gorgeous hat!
I hope my hero distressed SoC comes out that good!


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It probably will, I'm assuming you'll only be wearing it for con's or daily wear.
If for daily wear, what happens if it gets wet?
Just add more fullers after it dry.

But he does awesome work.

Croft