Club Obi Wan

What are everyone's thoughts on their new hat? It looks good to me except for the bash, but that's probably an easy fix. Also, I forget, don't the LC and TOD share the same block?
https://herbertjohnson.co.uk/products/t ... 36cf&_ss=r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks good to me.

Reminds me of the old Stetson's that they advertised, but you rarely ever received, when the film came out.

Regards! Michaelson

Looks great!

Not sure why the bash would be a problem. Looks pretty close to the bridge scene to me.

Mulceber wrote:Not sure why the bash would be a problem. Looks pretty close to the bridge scene to me.

To me it seems too tightly pinched.

It's been talked about ad nauseum, but I believe it's generally accepted that TOD and LC weren't exactly the same blocks. The LC block was built off the TOD block but appears to give more volume to the crown. It's definitely higher in a lot of scenes in LC, especially the second half of the movie, than any TOD scene. But at the same time, many of the later scenes in TOD seem to have a bigger crown than the earlier TOD scenes.

I'm of the opinion that it's possible different blocks were used in both films. Maybe not enough turnaround time and HJ had to make do with not enough of the same block and figured they could bash the differences out etc. I know some people say a Stetson was used for some shots in TOD, supposedly because of a licensing thing when Stetson got the mass market contract. I don't know, but the hat does vary substantially in different scenes. As does the LC. And I'm usually of the opinion that it's *possible* different color ribbons were used on some of the LC hats. And some people, even HJ it seems, think the felt on the LC was different from TOD. Again, possibilities but also possibly a light and film thing as well. And in some scenes it appears the brim on the LC is slightly shorter as well, almost on the order of 2 1/4" on the sides.

At the end of the day my defining difference between the TOD and LC is the cowboy curls on the LC.

That HJ TOD is pretty good looking, though.

That does look nice; but i just did a conversion and unless I did it wrong it came out at $513.00 +/-
For rabbit felt

Just sayin that’s a lot for rabbit. Still nice though.

Croft

IJJTM wrote:

Mulceber wrote:Not sure why the bash would be a problem. Looks pretty close to the bridge scene to me.

To me it seems too tightly pinched.

Possibly, but since there hasn't been a crease put in, that should be easy to re-adjust yourself.

Indiana Croft wrote:That does look nice; but i just did a conversion and unless I did it wrong it came out at $513.00 +/-
For rabbit felt


Croft

Got the same conversation.

Regards! Michaelson

Croft

Illinois_Jones wrote:It's been talked about ad nauseum, but I believe it's generally accepted that TOD and LC weren't exactly the same blocks. The LC block was built off the TOD block but appears to give more volume to the crown. It's definitely higher in a lot of scenes in LC, especially the second half of the movie, than any TOD scene. But at the same time, many of the later scenes in TOD seem to have a bigger crown than the earlier TOD scenes.

I'm of the opinion that it's possible different blocks were used in both films. Maybe not enough turnaround time and HJ had to make do with not enough of the same block and figured they could bash the differences out etc. I know some people say a Stetson was used for some shots in TOD, supposedly because of a licensing thing when Stetson got the mass market contract. I don't know, but the hat does vary substantially in different scenes. As does the LC. And I'm usually of the opinion that it's *possible* different color ribbons were used on some of the LC hats. And some people, even HJ it seems, think the felt on the LC was different from TOD. Again, possibilities but also possibly a light and film thing as well. And in some scenes it appears the brim on the LC is slightly shorter as well, almost on the order of 2 1/4" on the sides.

At the end of the day my defining difference between the TOD and LC is the cowboy curls on the LC.

That HJ TOD is pretty good looking, though.

You are correct. Take a look at the cockpit scene- there's your Stetson!

Kokopelli wrote:

Illinois_Jones wrote:
You are correct. Take a look at the cockpit scene- there's your Stetson!

Yep, that was the Stetson product placement scene.

Regards! Michaelson

By cockpit scene do you mean when him and Connery are flying the plane?

I believe they are referring to the cockpit scene in ToD?

Charybdis wrote:I believe they are referring to the cockpit scene in ToD?

Ahh, on most days I think that is my least favorite of the Fedoras Indy wore.

The tapered one? Agreed! That one was rode hard and put away wet!

The Stetson is the one where he sees the fuel gauge is empty and turns to see the engines shut down.

When he turns to yell at Shorty to get their stuff, it’s the HJ again.

Regards! Michaelson

That tapered Stetson was rough. Isn’t it on top of everyone’s list of “least favorite Indy hat? There is definitely an HJ ToD on my radar, but it will most likely take a backseat to the 40th Anniversary Raiders. That and I’m getting to the point where I have enough hats and jackets to supply the wardrobe department for Indy V.

Also, I would not use the hat listed on HJ’s website as a true example of the bash. Michelle is an absolute pro at matching scenes and details. Speaking from my own experience, I have no doubt that the finished product will be on point.

The hat in the cockpit scene from ToD gets an unjustly bad rep, in my opinion. You can clearly see that the center crease on the top has the back part waaaaaay too low, which is exaggerating the taper. Take any hat, no matter how straight the block it was made on, and bring that back crease down and you’ll get a similar effect. That said, it is still my least favorite hat in any movie. Now, that bridge scene hat? Now that’s a thing a beauty. After the Raiders hat that is my favorite in the entire series.

Dave

Yeah, I remember Penman always pointed out how Willie grabbed the hat in a tight pinch before Indy put it back on his head in the plane.

Yep. That’s the reason why. If you look at the stills without the context of what came immediately before those snapshots were taken it is very easy to just write off that hat as just Stetson getting it wrong. But, we will never really know what that Stetson would have looked like had it not had the crease totally sunken in. Stetson has some nice blocks in their history. I owned a beautiful Whippet that had one of the nicest stovepipe shapes to the crown. Maybe this same Stetson had a beautiful look to it before that. Probably not, but who knows?

Dave

Are referring to the fedora he's wearing when he's checking the gages, notices no fuel, looks out the window at the engine stopping, then out the front at the oncoming mountain?

That's the one that has always been referenced as the 'Stetson', and is a VERY nice block. It actually looks a bit larger than the HJ on his head, and much cleaner.

It's when he turns yelling 'Shorty get our stuff' that we're back to the tapered HJ.

Regards! Michaelson

You know, I totally confused the hats there. It IS the HJ I was referring to.

However, I know that the suspension bridge hat was supposed to be an HJ as well. I wonder if that’s the same hat without the crease brought down so much. I remember reading somewhere that the bridge hat was a left over HJ from Raiders. Maybe the tapered plane hat is as well?

Dave

Does anybody here actually own this hat? I would love to see pictures.

jgino wrote:Does anybody here actually own this hat? I would love to see pictures.

I would 2nd that. The ToD fedora in most any scene has been my least favorite, but perhaps it deserves another look...

Here is a side by side comparison of the Stetson and the Herbert Johnson...

And as most of us know, many of the publicity shots for LC -- including the poster -- were actually from ToD.

I've actually come around on the ToD. Not the plane scene hats, but for a lot of the movie -- especially the temple escape and bridge scenes etc in the second half of the movie -- it's a good hat.

What I'm super curious about is the choice of color. Michelle seems to imply that the felt on the ToD was lighter than the LC. Do we know that for sure, or is it a lighting thing? I always assumed ToD and LC used the same felt and any color quirks in the LC were due to lighting and/or possibly using a slightly different brown color ribbon on some of them.

Penman thinks that the hats all had the same color, but they differed due to lighting conditions.

Canyon wrote:Here is a side by side comparison of the Stetson and the Herbert Johnson...

Stella, can you grab a frame as he looks out toward the engines stopping?

Thanks! Michaelson

Canyon wrote:Here is a side by side comparison of the Stetson and the Herbert Johnson...

That looks like the same hat to me!
I believe both of those are a Stetson
I was always of the opinion that the studio stuff were all Stetson hats and the location hats were Herbert Johnson Poets
Steve Delk told me it was also his opinion when i ordered a TOD hat from him,and he was using a steson block for the lower crown scene hats
The Indian village hats and the location Bridge Hat definately look like Poets to me-taller Crown,different block shape and different colour to the studio hats also
I don't believe the Stetson was used in only one shot for product placement-but i am always open to persuasion-with proof!

Michaelson wrote:

Canyon wrote:Here is a side by side comparison of the Stetson and the Herbert Johnson...

Stella, can you grab a frame as he looks out toward the engines stopping?

Thanks! Michaelson

Sure.

https://movie-screencaps.com/indiana-jo ... ?strip=all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More can be found here....
https://movie-screencaps.com/indiana-jo ... om-1984/12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I definitely agree on those outdoor/location shot hats. It could be the natural lighting, but they seem to be a different color and felt weight to the on-set hats. I also prefer the look of them. This brings me back to the point that they may have been left over or unused hats from the Raiders shoot. Maybe even two hats as the bridge sequence hat does look less tapered than the village hat, although it could, once again, be that center crease. It seemed to have an odd kidney shaped crease with a low back in the village and a much less pronounced and lighter center crease in the bridge scenes.

Dave

Canyon wrote:

Michaelson wrote:

Canyon wrote:Here is a side by side comparison of the Stetson and the Herbert Johnson...

Stella, can you grab a frame as he looks out toward the engines stopping?

Thanks! Michaelson

Sure.

https://movie-screencaps.com/indiana-jo ... ?strip=all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More can be found here....
https://movie-screencaps.com/indiana-jo ... om-1984/12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Excellent!! Thank you!

If you go to the second link, then count 20 frames down, compare THAT fedora to the one’s first posted. The hat is larger...slightly wider brim, and no noticeable taper. That has always been the one identified as the product placement Stetson.

Thanks again, Stella!

Regards! M

Michaelson wrote:
Excellent!! Thank you!

If you go to the second link, then count 20 frames down, compare THAT fedora to the one’s first posted. The hat is larger...slightly wider brim, and no noticeable taper. That has always been the one identified as the product placement Stetson.

Thanks again, Stella!

Regards! M

You're welcome.

Michaelson wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:33 pm The tapered one? Agreed! That one was rode hard and put away wet!

The Stetson is the one where he sees the fuel gauge is empty and turns to see the engines shut down.

When he turns to yell at Shorty to get their stuff, it’s the HJ again.

Regards! Michaelson

I'm watching this right now, and essentially the entire plane interior, from the moment Indy gets into the cockpit, to when they leap out of the plane, it's the short stubby Stetson. It certainly doesn't look like anything HJ produced for any of the movies. And really, when they show Indy lay back in the yellow raft, once it's in the river, and the hat is all wet - that looks like the Stubby Stetson as well. It's not nearly as tall as the hat Indy wears around and on the canyon bridge, nor the same hat when he's speaking with the villagers about the stones and children.

Stetson? ...looks way too small for Ford's head. ...I'm shocked this hat was green-lit.





I'm iffy on these two - but they don't seem as tall as the HJ hats at the village, nor the bridge





Back to the Stetson...







HJ









Classic HJ look, IMO - Your bash preference mileage my vary.









Not sure what the LFL costume department was thinking with their use of the Stetson, other than the proverbial "small hat for small spaces". But wow, the Stetson looks like a kid's toy compared to the HJ.

craigjohn wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:18 am

I'm watching this right now, and essentially the entire plane interior, from the moment Indy gets into the cockpit, to when they leap out of the plane, it's the short stubby Stetson. It certainly doesn't look like anything HJ produced for any of the movies. And really, when they show Indy lay back in the yellow raft, once it's in the river, and the hat is all wet - that looks like the Stubby Stetson as well. It's not nearly as tall as the hat Indy wears around and on the canyon bridge, nor the same hat when he's speaking with the villagers about the stones and children.

Stetson? ...looks way too small for Ford's head. ...I'm shocked this hat was green-lit.

I think the Temple of Doom hat gets a bad rap almost exclusively because of the stetson. I think those are the things people fixate on especially since in the plane there's a extended amount of time where Indy is directly facing the camera up close and we gear heads get a good look at the hat. I think if it had been the HJ the whole time people probably would not have minded it so much except insofar as it had a looser pinch than raiders.

Dr. Jones, Jr. wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:31 am

craigjohn wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:18 am

I'm watching this right now, and essentially the entire plane interior, from the moment Indy gets into the cockpit, to when they leap out of the plane, it's the short stubby Stetson. It certainly doesn't look like anything HJ produced for any of the movies. And really, when they show Indy lay back in the yellow raft, once it's in the river, and the hat is all wet - that looks like the Stubby Stetson as well. It's not nearly as tall as the hat Indy wears around and on the canyon bridge, nor the same hat when he's speaking with the villagers about the stones and children.

Stetson? ...looks way too small for Ford's head. ...I'm shocked this hat was green-lit.

I think the Temple of Doom hat gets a bad rap almost exclusively because of the stetson. I think those are the things people fixate on especially since in the plane there's a extended amount of time where Indy is directly facing the camera up close and we gear heads get a good look at the hat. I think if it had been the HJ the whole time people probably would not have minded it so much except insofar as it had a looser pinch than raiders.

100% agree with this. ...and it's unfortunate HJ is taking the brunt of the hate on the Temple hat because of that little Stetson.

When people talk about the plane hat in particular I see a lot of hate. I honestly prefer this hat to the others in the movie. Im only just learning about this stuff, but as a casual observer, this hat stands out to me the way the SOC or even Young Indy’s backwards hat does. I would buy one if someone made it. It’s just a matter of taste. I see how it’s an ugly fedora by common standards.


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steve_guthrie wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:04 pm When people talk about the plane hat in particular I see a lot of hate. I honestly prefer this hat to the others in the movie. Im only just learning about this stuff, but as a casual observer, this hat stands out to me the way the SOC or even Young Indy’s backwards hat does. I would buy one if someone made it. It’s just a matter of taste. I see how it’s an ugly fedora by common standards.


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Dude. You like what you like. No need to quantify.

Honestly it only looks bad to me because the brim is proportionally way to wide for the crown. Smaller brim and the crown would look great, very Bogart. Though for a “safari” style fedora, yeah I’d prefer big crown, big brim.

steve_guthrie wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:04 pm When people talk about the plane hat in particular I see a lot of hate. I honestly prefer this hat to the others in the movie. Im only just learning about this stuff, but as a casual observer, this hat stands out to me the way the SOC or even Young Indy’s backwards hat does. I would buy one if someone made it. It’s just a matter of taste. I see how it’s an ugly fedora by common standards.


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I recall seeing a post on this site a few years back which had a photo or two of a Steele and Jones offering of the 'plane hat from ToD' and it was spot on! So, if your interested in a good hat that looks 'the part' for this scene, I could contact the guys at S&J ! W>

What were they thinking? Product placement, pure and simple. Lucas had a pile of Stetson fedoras ready to sell in the warehouse and after having at least one in the film in a short segment allowed him to legally state ‘as seen in Temple of Doom’.

Regards! Michaelson

Curious what the result would be if someone did some shaping work to a Stetson Temple. They still make em, and still describe that "Harrison Ford wore a version of this fedora in 1984’s Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom."

jlee562 wrote:Curious what the result would be if someone did some shaping work to a Stetson Temple. They still make em, and still describe that "Harrison Ford wore a version of this fedora in 1984’s Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom."

My size is currently out of stock on their website, but I put my email down to be notified. I may get one to try out.


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WConly wrote:

steve_guthrie wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:04 pm When people talk about the plane hat in particular I see a lot of hate. I honestly prefer this hat to the others in the movie. Im only just learning about this stuff, but as a casual observer, this hat stands out to me the way the SOC or even Young Indy’s backwards hat does. I would buy one if someone made it. It’s just a matter of taste. I see how it’s an ugly fedora by common standards.


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I recall seeing a post on this site a few years back which had a photo or two of a Steele and Jones offering of the 'plane hat from ToD' and it was spot on! So, if your interested in a good hat that looks 'the part' for this scene, I could contact the guys at S&J ! W>

I would love to see a picture of it. I’ll do some searching as well


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The Stetson Temple isn’t a bad looking hat in and of itself, but to call it a true Indy-style hat is a little…optimistic. I see a more or less 50’s style with a dimensional brim. I’d love it to death if a relative gave me one for Christmas but it would never replace my Fed 4 as my intentionally Indy fedora. Anyway, one’s going to experiment on one please posts some pics, would be interesting

“Intentionally Indy”…there’s an outfitters to shop at!

Apparently, the Stetson Temple was also the hat worn by Freddy Krueger in the 6th NOES film.

I mean, sure, it's not "screen accurate" to the HJ hats. But presumably the cockpit hat is a Stetson Temple that was distressed by wardrobe. I don't think Stetson was producing any open crown hats during this period, considering they only returned in a handful of models a few years ago. Of course it's possible they produced some one offs ("a version of this fedora"), but that's just another one of those unanswerable questions regarding the Indy Stetson.

In the world of marketing it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the Stetson Temple was based on a hat Stetson made for the movie but wasn’t strictly identical. Same color and overall dimensions but simplified for mass production, ie: finding a pre-shaped block that more or less conformed to the shape the costuming department and/or Harrison Ford put it in on set. After all, in it’s way the Temple is more screen accurate to all three films than the official Dorfman Pacific which wasn’t in any of them.

I actually found one in stock. Should be here next week so I’ll at least get to try it on. If it seems like a winner I’ll try some reshaping. You more knowledgeable folks will have some good input there, I’m sure.

How about the ribbon? Is it too tall? Might be fun to learn how to put one on.




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