Club Obi Wan

I got home today to find a rather large box. Inside, in their own indivdual hat boxes, were two pure belly beaver hats. A small fortune. One hat belongs to our good friend and fellow gearhead, Marc. His hat is completely finished, while mine is just a pounced hat body. I like finishing my own hats. I will let Marc give you his evaluation of his hat once he gets it. (If it never shows up Marc, just remember, the old American saw, " the check is in the mail" ) OK, on to my first impressions of my hat body. I can't address the liner, the sweatband, the ribbon issues, because mine is just a piece of beaver felt shaped like a hat. But, I can tell you about the color, and the felt. The color is different than our other offerings, or rather the shade of brown is a little different. It is lighter than the Deluxe, a shade or two I would say. The Deluxe looks blackish sitting next to it. It is a brownish brown. Very nice, and it looks as if it would have golden highlights under the sun. Beaver and Nutria felt have this strange property. It is hard to describe, you really have to visually experience it up close, and in person. I will try. When the light hits beaver and nutria felt, it almost looks as if the felt has a colored frosting. I don't know how else to describe what I see. It is just a nuance of these types of felt. My nutria has the same quality. All in all, this is a very good Indy brown, leaning toward the Raiders color.(Or what I perceive it to be) Now some observations regarding the felt. This is a lightweight felt, but as dense as they come. I don't see how a felt could be any denser. The felt is soft and very pliable. If you thump the crown with a finger, it dents easily, and the dent stays. No springiness at all to the felt. I like this quality. It is more robust than the Optimo felt, and won't change shapes when a brisk breeze is blowing. This is certainly in the same league as the finest vintage felt. I have no qualms about stating that observation. In fact, if someone had of handed me this hat a few days ago and wanted a comment, I would have said it is obviously a vintage hat. I would have been wrong of course. When you handle this felt, only one thing comes to mind. Velvet. It feels like velvet. When I first felt it, I had to get it into the light to see if I had got one of those pimp daddy hats by mistake. It just felt too soft. My eyes reassured me because all that I saw was a very, super fine felt with no fuzz at all. This felt is so fine that you almost need a magnifying glass to see the beaver under fur. If you look inside the hat, where it has not been pounced, you see no guard hairs. Nothing but superfine beaver fur, as soft a cotton on the underside of the crown. I honestly did not know what I would get when I ordered this hat body about a month ago. I was hoping it would be as good as the vintage Stetson Nutria. I just knew that I wanted a pure beaver hat, since I did not own one. I had someone tell me that all beaver hats were stiff and unsuitable for fedoras. While I knew that this just wasn't the case in times past, I was worried that what I would get for a beaver body would be a thick stiff beaver hat, better suited for Roy than Fedora. I was so relieved when I first picked the hat up, or perhaps snatched up would be a better term. So, now I finally own one. There is no where to go from here. You can't move up. I see now why pure beaver has always been the ultimate felt for a hat, any kind of hat. And why some hats were given the "x" system on percentage of beaver. And also why this felt has always been so expensive. There is nothing like a pure soft beaver fedora. It don't get any better than this. So, now it is time for me to put this baby on my new vintage block, style 52, and seen how she responds. I will post pics as I go along, for those interested in this sort of thing. And Marc, you ever heard of the word "ransom" A nice english word. You and I wear the same size. How many of those Cuban cigars is this thing worth to ya. Fedora

I have been awaiting this post since I found out Marc's was in the mail. Sounds like you have IT, Fedora. Good show. By lightweight, what are we talking about here? In milimeters, that is. (By the way, how does one measure the thickness of a felt and come out with 1. whatever mm?)

Peace,
Cliffhanger

I need to dig out the micrometer I guess. It is slightly thicker than the Optimo lightweight. I would call the Optimo a feather weight, and this thickness a light weight. IMHO, it looks to be around the same thickness as the Raiders fedora, or many of my vintage hats. Fedora

Fedora wrote: When you handle this felt, only one thing comes to mind. Velvet. It feels like velvet. When I first felt it, I had to get it into the light to see if I had got one of those pimp daddy hats by mistake. It just felt too soft. My eyes reassured me because all that I saw was a very, super fine felt with no fuzz at all. This felt is so fine that you almost need a magnifying glass to see the beaver under fur.

I had the exact same reaction with the Merc Indy. Sounds like you have a good find.

I am in the club Pyro. A very elite club too. But, you still have "the hat of all hats." You lucky dog. Fedora

Hey, Fedora! If this hat works out like you want it to, any chance of one of your famous 'giveaways" in the forecast?!?!?!?!?

I get the feeling Fedora would sooner give away his hand than the lid this is going to become!

Is this fedora the one Marc is waiting on from ######?

Sshhssshh... We don't need to open old wounds. I just found the mike, and I will give you a couple of different brands of hats so you can visualize the thickness of this beaver felt. My Deluxe comes in at 2.2 mm. My Optimo comes in at 1.5, this beaver hat comes in at 1.8 mm. I just put it on the block and discovered it will take some work on getting the hat to shrink down a bit. I think it may add up some mileage between reblocks. That is what pure beaver felt is supposed to do. A true all weather fedora. Where's my horse and lasso? Fedora

I'm very interested in the result. Wasn't your Gary White (now Michaelson's) all beaver or was that a mix? You just might have the hat to have when you're finished. Good luck to you.

And Marc, you ever heard of the word "ransom" A nice english word. You and I wear the same size. How many of those Cuban cigars is this thing worth to ya.

Hehe, there's a reason why I wanted my crown to be only 5.5" instead of 5.75" my friend You drop me the hat, or I'll get myself one of these things you can't have here in Gemany, but are no problem to get in the U.S.! I've got your address buddy

Wasn't your Gary White (now Michaelson's) all beaver or was that a mix?

The Gary White that now belongs to Michaelson is a mix. Rundquist had an all beaver Indy Fedora from G.W., but THIS one is a pure BELLY beaver!

Regards,

Marc

Fedora,
I can't wait for the blocking results and the pictures. Of course Marc needs to wear his in the rain for 40 days to see if it does taper. ) Just kidding. Price?

-Sergei

I'm glad I didn't place a money bet on whether you guys would ever get these hats. .. I now wonder what my $12.98 Burlington is actually made of? Fedora said

When the light hits beaver and nutria felt, it almost looks as if the felt has a colored frosting.

and

This is a lightweight felt, but as dense as they come.

When I reviewed my Burlington, I said "This felt catches the light like it's got frost on it, unlike my Miller and PBBM. I think this is a sign of quality- perhaps a denser felt." I also said the felt "feels luxurious", and

Velvet.

describes it. 8-[ ........................I'm glad you got the real thing Fedora. It's like getting a Harley vs. a Honda, a Gibson vs. an Epiphone. and congradulations on reverse engineering the block!

Congratulations (so far). Will the fact that the hat not shrink tightly onto your block create any problems? It would be a shame to not be able to get this hat perfect after all the hoopla surrounding it. I can picture with your "old" block adding bondo to it to fill in the spaces

I am very curious as to how it comes out. I am trying to determine how much I can get for a kidney on the black market after the initial review.

I really look foreward to see the pics of Gladhatters creation (ups.. did I say gladh..ahhmm..)
Congratulations to You both!!

Best regards

JAN

Well I WILL wear my hat in the rain and of course I WILL let you know how it holds up, but let me get it first.

Charlie offers 50% off of the retail price on the first custom made hat one orders, so I paid 520$ for mine (plus shipping).

That is the price for a pure belly beaver. A pure beaver is 750$ (or 375$ if it's the first one). He also offers mixed felts, but I'm not sure on the prices, since I wanted an all belly beaver.

Regards,

Marc

This is too much for me, I can't take it...will somebody PLEASE post some pics! Ya killin' me!

Glad to hear you both have actual hats to show after your transactions with this particular vendor. I've been wondering what he'd produce after reading a lot of the back story over at TFL, or if he'd produce at all. Can't wait to see these beauties.

-GCR

This morning the hat is still saturated. Takes awhile for dense felt to dry. I have had some vintage hats dry overnight. The hat is still not tight on the block, so this evening will see some steamwork. I am not worried about getting it to shrink, all felt shrinks. Some just slower than others. The felt looks as good this morning as it did last night, actually better since it has a nice Indy shape to it now, sitting on that block. I will get some pics this weekend. Marc, your hat is in the mail, or will be as soon as I drive to town. I am leaving now. Fedora

Fedora wrote:Sshhssshh... We don't need to open old wounds.

Not at all. I'm happy for the both of you that it looks like you're finally getting what you've wanted. It was explained to this vendor when all the rukus was going on to just lay low and produce something that others could see. We told him that if his product was as good as he boasted that others would flock towards it, as seems to be the reaction here. He balked at this and continued to fight. Unfortunately burning bridges that probably cost him customers.

We have no bias towards him or his product. Only his actions.

Again, congrats to you both.

Mike

According to the finally: I might add, that my list with specs. contains no less than 450 words combined with some VERY special requests. Some of these requests were quite time consuming to realize, which again slowed down the whole process. So, that's why it took so long.

Regards,

Marc

Thanks Mike. Just let me state that you will get what you want from Charlie. And anyway that you want it. He told me many times that if after I got the hat body, if it was not right, he would make it right. I believe him. He will bend over backwards on any custom hat order. This has been my experience, as well as Marc's. Of course, he knew already what sort of felt the beaver bodies were, and you would be hard pressed to find a hat afficionado that would not salivate over the fineness of this felt. Regardless of what has happened in the past here, the old fellow aims to please. He worked hard on supplying Marc with all of the things that he wanted on this hat. From the looks of it, Marc will be a happy camper. I have nothing but good things to say about Charlie's customer service, and his attitude once you get in the loop of buying a custom hat. For what he charges for the first pure beaver hat, it is a bargain. Expensive, yes, but for the price of a Optimo blend, you can own pure beaver. I look forward to seeing how this new block looks, and will get some pics this weekend to post. regards, Fedora

WHY then had he never posted a pic of his hat here on COW? I'm actually surprised to hear he delivered anything and that you're telling us it's a quality hat makes it even more puzzling. If he would have just posted pics earlier he may not have gotten grilled so much and in my opinion could have prevented his banning. Any ideas why this may have been? Marc? Fedora? Anyone?

Can't wait to see pics of this.

5, lets not make this post about Charlie. He's still a ticking timebomb for some members. Let's keep this post about the product and keep the Mod's headaches to a minimum.

And Marc, didn't mean to insinuate too much into my finally. With what went on, some of us were genuinely concerned with you getting taken. I'm happy to see that eventuality didn't come to fruition.

Mike

From what I gather, he never took pics of his custom orders. I saw plenty of pics of my hat body and Marc's prior to receiving them, but he won't post pics of your hat unless you tell him to. Strange. We got the pics only because Marc requested them. Then you got so many you got tired of looking. regards, Fedora

Fedora,

Bottom line me here. How does this hat shell compare to an Optimo ?

Once I see pix, I may well be interested in the long run about getting one of these.

I can only compare it to the first Optimos bought here. I have not seen the beaver/nutria blend hats that were offered this last time around. The felt on both hats is superb, visually. The beaver felt is denser, and more velvety than the Optimo. I fully feel that if you handed both to a vintage hat lover, he or she would grab the beaver hat with little hesitation. The quality is rather obvious. This is not meant as a put down of Optimo. This is just a different animal, and the finest felt that I have seen to date. But, it should be. Pure beaver felt is the finest in the world, and always has been. That is why I have always wanted one. Now I can finally rest for awhile. Fedora

Fedora wrote:Sshhssshh... We don't need to open old wounds.

Hopefully it was only a flesh wound, I was not trying to open old wounds, but am actually glad to hear Charlie produced a hat and that you approve and hopefully Marc will also, although Charlie has most surely lost a customer in me. But it's definitely good news to hear y'all are happy with his product.

Sounds great Fedora,

Happy for you, can't wait to see some pic's!

Hatman

Here a a couple pics of it sitting next to my well worn Deluxe. This will give a color comparison. There is one here to to the Beaver by itself. Enlarge it to see the felt closer. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/bea ... luxe2.html Fedora

I have an Optimo Indy Brown and the color looks about the same to me.
How's your specs gonna wind up, brim and crownwise? And the Deluxe! It actually looks distressed. Looks great!

Awesome!

Ever played an old 2D-adventure? As player a great part of your job is finding 'animated' parts of the pictures. They must be part of the puzzle because only they can be moved.
Beside that Fed the raw Beaver Felt Body looks like such an animated item - really in the world, really touchable. Like it would be the only one which responds to the sun. I think thats the case either when compared to a new Deluxe.

Fabian

Thanks. Indy Brown? I would not doubt it being the same color. The final specs wil be, 5 3/4 open crown, 2 7/8 x 2 3/4 brim. That Deluxe has been completely saturated many times this winter and then worn in front of kerosene heaters and fireplaces at my inlaws' camphouse on the Tennesse Tombigbee River. So it did not always get the opportunity to dry at a consistent room tempature. Dried on my head mostly. To sing the praises of felt hats, my head never once got wet even it the hardest rain. Untreated too. regards, Fedora

The guy at Optimo said the color was actually called "tobacco", if I remember right. Do you want a Swales type Indy brim? I can send you a template copied off my HJ.

Thanks Dakota, but I have a brim template from Mike's older HJ, bumps and all. But I do appreciate the offer. I have not made up my mind as to use it or not, but might do it, and go just a bit larger in case I don't like the proportions. I think the HJ he let me reblock, his first one, had the narrower brim on the sides and my personal preference has gone toward the wider brims, although they may not be as accurate. I am starting to style and cut my Indy fedoras with a little more western flavor, ie larger brims. I have plenty of both narrower and wider to cover all the bases as well as different crown heights. One of those babies has got to be accurate. Fedora

Lookin' good, that seems like a great color! I am eagerly anticipating the finished product!

-GCR

Fedora,

Yep the '90 HJ sides are narrower and the back is also less than the front which is the widest part of the brim.

It looks great.

Mike

Here are a few more pics. She is off the block, I just installed the sweatband and put it on my head to see how she would style. I gave it a slight turn, the 3M$ turn, and bashed it while on my head. I am about to install the ribbon, sand the brim a bit, and put the liner in. Then I will restyle it with a little steam, style the brim and I wil post those pics. regards, Fedorahttp://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/rai ... aver2.html Surf around my picture site and see the rest of the hat in this stage.

It looks fantastic! I can't wait for mine to arrive - well, guess I have to

Regards,

Marc

Yes, pictures #10 through #12 look quite good after blocking.

One thought to ponder. If a person has a smaller or bigger hat size than your block Fedora, what can we expect? I for one have a hat size of 7 1/2. And I am not a long oval, but round oval. I am somewhat left to a situation where I am dependent on someone else's block? What about the liner? Sweatband? The liner and sweatband have to be off the fedora until the blocking is done. Right?

Very, very nice color. Golden glow. Creamy looking felt. .. WOW!

I requested my hat to be blocked on my block, so I wouldn't be tempted to reblock it. Charlie does however have blocks that are quite similar to that one, but I strongly recommend to contact him personally regarding this question. All custom made hats will be based on a conformateur (sp?) measurering, as mine is too. Charlie sent a conformateur to me, to get a exact diagramm of my head's shape. Later the hat was adjusted to fit that shape. That is the closest you can get, without visiting a hatter in person (which in my case is quite difficult).

The liners were made to satisfy my wishes regarding a perfect Indy hat. I first wanted pure silk, but later picked bridal satin over that for various reasons. It is all white and has the ###### logo printed into the top in gold. I'll try to post some pictures I received from Charlie later.

The sweatbands were also made to my exact specifications. When I saw the sweatband on MK's millionaires vintage hat, I knew this would be the most perfect sweatband for my next hat. I then asked Charlie, if he saw any chances in getting something similar to that. To make a long story longer, he sent me several leather and color samples and I had the honor to choice which color and which leather I liked the best and based on that new sweatbands were ordered. Later he ordered grey, black and chocolate in the same leather. It is a very nice roan leather with a slight "grainy" structure. He also printed my full name in gold on the sweatband (again: my idea, Charlie's money).

Charlie first block the hats and then put in the liner and sweatband (most hatters do, when making a new hat).

Regards,

Marc

You chose well Marc on the sweatband. I like that color because so many of my vintage hats have basically this same color band. You can date the Stetsons by the color of the sweats. Borsalino used this same color, perhaps still do. After I took those last pics, I realized from looking at the pics that the front pinch was off center. It was a quick style job while still on my head so I will have to get the pinch centered before I am finished. Fedora

Indiana Texas-girl wrote: Hopefully it was only a flesh wound, I was not trying to open old wounds, but am actually glad to hear Charlie produced a hat and that you approve and hopefully Marc will also, although Charlie has most surely lost a customer in me. But it's definitely good news to hear y'all are happy with his product.

I agree with your post on all points.

Yeah, it is good bit of money for a hat, but quality felted hats will last a lifetime. That is how I try to look at the thousands of dollars that I have spent on hats over the last 5 years. I paid over 30 grand for a Tahoe a couple of years ago, and we all know it won't last a lifetime. It is all relative, me thinks. And thanks for the compliments. regards, Fedora

Langpuss wrote:

I envy you I really do although I'd be perhaps afraid to wear such a hat! I'd be paranoid about such an expensive lid

Well, Fedora and I both picked the most expensive felt possible. I'm positive you could get the same sweatband and liner in a cheaper hat.

Regards,

Marc

I paid over 30 grand for a Tahoe a couple of years ago

For a brief moment, I thought a Tahoe was a type of hat and my mouth hit the floor. Then it hit me. Deep sigh.

The ribbon is on, the liner is in, http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/pdrm0162.html There is another photo of the inside of the hat, so you can see the color of the sweat, and also a front view of the hat with ribbon. I still have to finish the brim and steam in the style, although this is prett close to the way the crown will stay. Fedora

Amazing...simply amazing...I don't know what else to say...

The phrase "Nice hat" doesn't do it justice...

The transition has been remarkable, I'm impressed (and jealous). I'm also happy that this story didn't end on a bad note for you guys...wear it well.

-GCR

Excellent! Seems like you archive a slight reverse taper with your new vintage block.

May it serve you well.

Regards,

Marc

Fedora, old friend, I'm very, very sorry. I was enjoying reading your review, then got the photo of the hat in the block, and saw to my horror that you had placed the hat body mistakenly on your Raiders block, and not MY LC block! You KNOW I'm an LC fan (to a point, hat style wise), and your block is to small for my head. Well, I guess I'll just have to see if I can stretch it when you mail it up to me. Congratulations! I know you've been on this quest for literally years.....Looks like you have finally arrived! Highest regards. Michaelson