S & W Victory model

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:05 pm

Greetings,

I'm about to buy a deactivated Smith & Wesson Victory Model .38, the one that was made in the US for Great Britain during WWII. I'm interested in any info and feedback my fellow boardmembers have regarding this gun and the possibilities to convert it to a more Indy-esque appearance. As I can see, the main issue would be the caliber (can't have it all now, can we

).
Barrel seems to be just a tad too long (maybe an inch or so) and the gun comes with lanyard. The grips on the Victory are different - no S&W logos - but I see vintage N-frame grips on eBay all the time and assume that the conversion is a piece of proverbial cake.

What say you?

/SJ

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:03 pm

If it's deactivated, I would say convert it. Can you find someone to shorten the barrel and reattach the sight?

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:57 am

I guess I could find a decent gunsmith around here...
Thanks, Pyroxene! I think I'll go for the gun...

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:04 am

You have to look at what the gun is worth. Michaelson and RonC would know more, but in my book, how much does a deactivated gun go for? I would find it hard to believe that it's as sought after as a firing one. Tip Burns has an unfired victory in original packaging and I would imagine that's worth some money.

When I was looking for a 1917, I asked Lee if he could help. His first response was, "Are you going to shoot it?" I said, "No." He said, "Then let me sell you one of my rubber ones and save you a bunch of money."

So, that is where I got my thinking. If it's deactivated, I would make it look as screen accurate as possible.

Just my thoughts. Continue to ask around.

Pyro.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:48 am

I'm surprised your Victory isn't ALREADY the correct barrel length. All the Victory's I've ever seen (and owned) have had 4 inch barrels. Oh, don't shoot it anyway, or don't shoot it much, as the quality control was attrocious with these revolvers. Can't say I'm blaming Smith and Wesson, with the war going on and all, but the only revolver I've ever owned that actually had a chamber bored incorrectly in it's cylinder was a Victory model, and man, talk about splitting lead out the sides when fired!

The bullet actually smacked the target sideways from tumbling! Sounded like a cannon going off too! Pretty unsettling, and I like shooting 44 mags! In appearance, though, she's a dead ringer for the Raiders revolver, though about a 1/3 smaller in size. Nice gun for all appearances, as it's a K-frame, NOT an N-frame,and will fit perfectly in a Keppler holster and using the second hole in it's strap for flap tiedown.You can also find K-frame correct gold shield grips to fit it. I have some on my K-frame Model 13...produced in 1917. I've recently seen nice shooter examples in a local gun store in the $180 range. Regards. Michaelson

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:16 pm

Guys, thanks for all your valuable input!

Come to think of it, that barrel may be just right... don't know for sure, but I'd reckon I may have misjudged the length... perhaps the smaller calibre made the barrel look a tad longer...

Anyway - I think I'm going for this one. The funny thing is, living in Sweden, and in spite of it being a deactivated gun, I must apply for a license at my local police station. Don't know about US license regulations, but in Sweden, you must have one separate license for each gun you own. Which means that Swedish law considers a deactivated WWII revolver to be as lethal as my SPAS 12 autoloader... go figure.

Michaelson, thanks for pointing out the fact that the Victory is a K-frame... would most certainly have bought N-frame grips and despaired...

/SJ

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:37 pm

Scandinavia Jones wrote:Guys, thanks for all your valuable input!

Come to think of it, that barrel may be just right... don't know for sure, but I'd reckon I may have misjudged the length... perhaps the smaller calibre made the barrel look a tad longer...

Anyway - I think I'm going for this one. The funny thing is, living in Sweden, and in spite of it being a deactivated gun, I must apply for a license at my local police station. Don't know about US license regulations, but in Sweden, you must have one separate license for each gun you own. Which means that Swedish law considers a deactivated WWII revolver to be as lethal as my SPAS 12 autoloader... go figure.

Michaelson, thanks for pointing out the fact that the Victory is a K-frame... would most certainly have bought N-frame grips and despaired...

/SJ

Oh, US gun laws can be very unusual and VARY state by state ! How much fun is that ?

Enjoy and be safe
Ken

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:39 pm

Probably, but the neat thing about it is that folks want these grips, and you could have easily traded or sold them for the pair you wanted, so no problems! As to licensing, with the exception of the larger cities who have their own 'rules', we only have to fill out a 4473 BATF form with purchase of a gun from a licensed gun dealer, and that's that. Individual to individual sales are not recorded. Regards. Michaelson

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:27 pm

As to licensing, with the exception of the larger cities who have their own 'rules', we only have to fill out a 4473 BATF form with purchase of a gun from a licensed gun dealer, and that's that. Individual to individual sales are not recorded.

Does that apply to deactivated/demilled firearms as well?

/SJ

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:33 pm

Nope, but then, we don't have those over here, with the exception of collectable antiques, and those are unlicensed. (Once again, larger cities have their own rules about stuff like this) Our stuff usually goes 'bang' (well, MOST of our stuff goes 'bang'.

) Regards. Michaelson

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:09 pm

Checked again, and the barrel length on this particular gun is actually 5 inches.
About the screen-accuracy... IIRC the grips on one version were black, Bake-Lite kind of grips without the S&W medallion and the other version had wooden medallion grips. If I was to go for the "collared" barrel w/ semi-circle sight look, would the black ones be correct?

IndyMac · Post by **IndyMac** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:49 pm

You might want to check some of the gun auction sites or Ebay and look for a Parker-Hale barrel for your Smith. They were made in the fifties and are the correct 4in lenth and have a ramp style sight very similar to the Indy gun.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:34 am

I'm thinking of converting it into a Stembridge version - I like the antique and "Indy-ish" look of the banded front sight.

About the K and N frame difference - how much smaller is the Victory mod. compared to a HE2?

/SJ

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:04 am

As I said in my post above, it's about a 1/3 smaller in size, give or take. Regards. Michaelson

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:59 am

Sorry, Michaelson...

you did point that out earlier...

Miranda act according to the Simpsons:

-You have the right to read through your own thread before posting stupid questions.
-I choose to waive that right!

but in my book, how much does a deactivated gun go for?

The price for deactivated firearms can be quite hefty, especially when sold to collectors in my kind of countries (that is, countries with rigorous gun laws). Military collectors who want to own original WWII machineguns and such have to cough up considerable amounts of cash. Of course, when the issue is full auto weaponry, the Law ends to be even stricter (as far as I know, obtaining full auto permits ain't a piece of cake in the US either.)
/SJ

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:10 pm

That is correct. A full auto license is called a Class III license here in the U.S., and even when I was a gun dealer, cost mega bucks. Regards. Michaelson

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:06 pm

...the main difference betwixt USA and most of Europe being that you simply can't get that full auto permit, even for mega bucks.

Well, the OT alarm has been tripped, but anyway:

There are a handful of dudes in Sweden who possess competition licenses for Carl Gustaf SMG's but they have to qualify for a long time before they are approved. And NO other SMG's are allowed except the Swedish K...

/SJ

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:33 pm

I'm still curious about the size difference between the Victory Mod. and the 2nd Model HE.

Is there any possibility that someone happens to have a comparison pic to post, please?

Just want to make sure I could live with the difference before I apply for a permit...

/SJ

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:18 am

Scandinavia Jones wrote:I'm still curious about the size difference between the Victory Mod. and the 2nd Model HE.

Is there any possibility that someone happens to have a comparison pic to post, please?

Just want to make sure I could live with the difference before I apply for a permit...

/SJ

When I get my Smith back from Tip Burns, I'll take some photos next to his Victory.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:32 am

Actually, in the meantime,

Here is a photo of a S&W 1917

And a Victory

I don't know if the photos are 1:1 ratio but it looks like the lanyard rings and thumb ejectors are the same size. Notice the position of the thumb ejector and the size of the frame.

Pyro.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:59 pm

If it isn't 1:1, it's about as close as you can get. Thanks, Pyro! Regards. Michaelson

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:49 pm

Thanks a bunch, guys! I'm beginning to see the difference here...

Guess the deactivated Victory I'm planning to buy actually could convert into a nice holster filler without looking too tiny...

/SJ

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:05 pm

I hope you get this gun SJ! Maybe it would have convinced you even further had I brought my plastic "dollar store" gun to show you what it actually looks like compared to a real one.

Seems like a great piece, and well worth it!

Regards,
Swindiana

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:28 pm

I messed a bit with MSPaint and tried to resize the Victory looking at the thumb ejectors and lanyards... did I get the scale right, or did I blow the Vic up too much?

[deleted stupid, non-showing image]

Gimme a holler if pic don't show... I'm a pilgrim in an unholy land (that is. I'm trying to share Yahoo-hosted pics)

/SJ

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:42 pm

It's not showing...

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:47 pm

Michaelson wrote:That is correct. A full auto license is called a Class III license here in the U.S., and even when I was a gun dealer, cost mega bucks. Regards. Michaelson

Aaah the good ole days....when you could get a class III and live in the People's Republic of New Jersey

Guess I need a nice place next door to Michaelson ...

Now I gotta get to a range again.....

Good deal on the victory !

Ken

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 6:45 am

How I detest Yahoo...

I'll find another host for my pics and repost.

Later,
/SJ

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:21 pm

Let's try that size comparison pic again:

Does that look right?
/SJ

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:17 pm

I would say you got it pretty close.

RonC · Post by **RonC** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:59 am

Scandinavia, go for the Victory Model, my friend! Personally, I like going for the "Indy Look"....maybe not totally screen accurate, but looking "Period" as much as possible. Your Victory Model will certainly look Period Correct for Indy's time!

In my own "adventures", I've used everything from Browning Hi Powers to AKMs...so it's more a matter of "attitude" than anything else, for me!

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:37 pm

Thanks for the encouraging words, RonC! The last week I have given the Vic a few serious thoughts, but it's that caliber and frame size issue... The dude who was selling the Vic told me that he had one or two 1917's and/or 1937 Brazilians before, and is going to give me a holler when he comes across one. So I'll go for a .45...

However, if any of you gun guys happen to come across a 2nd mod HE in such a bad condition that it could be subject for a de-milling, please give me a holler...

/SJ

Amaziah Rimfire · Post by **Amaziah Rimfire** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:34 pm

Michaelson wrote:I'm surprised your Victory isn't ALREADY the correct barrel length. All the Victory's I've ever seen (and owned) have had 4 inch barrels.

The ones that were US issue generally had 4" barrels, but the ones made for Lend Lease program had 5" barrels and they were in .38 S&W (called .380/200 by the British) instead of .38 Special. I own a nice example of one like that - made in 1942 or early '43, parkerized, plain walnut grips. Never had problems with lead spitting while shooting it, so maybe you just got a bad one.

See this webpage for a history of the Victory Model: http://coolgunsite.com/pistols/victory_ ... wesson.htm

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:47 pm

I know. A lot were returned from Lend lease, and rechambered for .38 S&W, barrel shortened to 4 inch carry for Coast Guard and Civil Defense issue, yet still had the British proof marks and barrel stamped for the British round .380/200, as mine was. Shot horribily, as though it was technically a retred from the factory (all the numbers matched), it was essentially a Frankenstein in my personal opinion, keyholing every 5th round down range, splitting lead out the side of the cylinder gap on a regular basis. Still, a fine LOOKING revolver, and I'm sure mine was the proverbial 'odd man out' in a line of fine old warriors. Regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:56 pm

Wow. My Victory has never spit lead out the sides on me. Although it's not the most accurate gun I've fired, it's still a lot of fun to shoot. Mine wasn't a leased model and shoots 38S&W. bink

S & W Victory model

S & W Victory model

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1917 and Victory Mod. comparison