Club Obi Wan

I own two great Steele and Jones jackets, hats of to Diego for his workmanship and help. One is a Raiders in thin cowhide and the other is their movie perfect replica LC Jacket and their great horsehide, a girlfriend of mine wants this jacket, LOL. I know some people have mentioned Pecards but which one they have several ones, also would that be ok for both hides or is there something better? I have heard that Pecards can darken the leather which I don't really want because both are perfect in color and distressing on the LC. Thanks for any suggestions.

I'm not a fan of regular Pecard dressing on jackets mostly because of the beeswax and sticky residue. It feels like more of a weatherproofing for duty leather gear like footwear, holsters, belts, and whips than a luxury jacket conditioner to me.

I've used Lexol on every leather jacket I've owned over the last 25 years. Cow, goat, lamb, shearling, you name it. It's very neutral and has never left any stickiness, odor, residue, or oily feedback on anything I've used it on. I can't vouch for darkening, as all of my jackets are already pretty dark.

Just my $.02.

most anything you use will darken the distressing on your LC Steele and Jones. I would look at where your jacket feels dry or needs some dressing and do it very conservative. Pecards will definitely darken. I would consider coconut fat. get a little and rub it between your fingers which will melt the fat. Try a spot somewhere which won't be noticed if at all and see what happens. Its good for a lot of things including hydrating leather. No nasty additives and I have yet to find that it attracts bugs or unwanted guests. But check with S&J, they sent me a paper for care with mine. I can't remember what they told me other than if I use conditioner on the distressing it will definitely darken it.

Remember, the Horsehide, if its Horsehide, is combination tanned meaning both Chrome and Veg. tanning were incorporated, so the jacket is naturally going to soak up less oils and water which makes it easier to care for than straight veg tanned.

I've used the Pecard Original Leather dressing on a number of jackets and boots and have not had any issues with the leather darkening. My 2000 Wested has had approximately 10 applications without any changes.

I've also never experienced the tackiness that some report. I use an old t-shirt to apply the dressing and rub it in really well and leave out to air dry overnight. There are occasionally areas in some of the seams where some dressing builds up, but I buff those with the t-shirt and I'm good to go.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

There are also several 'iterations' of Pecards that have less beeswax than the standard dressing, including a Motorcycle Leather Lotion that is just like Lexol.

I have experienced the darkening of the leather, though, but it all depends on the hide, and how much 'distressing' has taken place in use.

Regards! Michaelson

After try a lot of products on the market over 30 years,my best choice for leather treatment is definitively for my Indy jackets ,shoes,whips (cowhide,lambskin,calfskin,bison War of the Worlds jacket..) is the "SAPHIR leather oil " in spray.
One bottle can protect 2 jackets.
It's make with vegetable oil,lovely smell,just spray one side of the jacket at the time,not oily or greazy at all,and don't need to be clean after with a rag.
One or two time used in a year..
I bought it on ebay :

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/161888111753" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yeah, the pecards won't darken the leather much if any if applied conservatively and the excess wiped off like Jeff mentioned, but the areas where they distressed to look SA definitely will get a little darker if thats what you are trying to avoid. using pecards on unwanted scratches and abrasions can sometimes blend the blemish in better so it does not attract attention to it as much.

If Pecards leaves your jacket sticky or waxy you are using too much. Probably the most common mistake in applying dressing. It simply needs a very light touch. I use a light coat of Pecards about once every 5 years on jackets and it has never left any residue.

Ok thanks for all of the input. First my jacket is dark but don't want it any darker and I did get it destressed to be SA and it is spot on perfect best jacket I have seen for a LC thanks again to Diego, but don't want to change it just keep it clean and preserved. So if this helps clarify what I am looking for. Lexol was mentioned I do use there spray bottle treatment found in automotive dept of store on my car seats and leather couch and recliner, is this what several mentioned here or is there another product from them for clothing? Thanks again everyone for the help love this forum.

Is your jacket dried out that much already? My HH jacket I got from him should not need a treatment for at least a year if even then. Its combination tanned meaning both chrome and veg tanned. I would not be using lexol I bought for car care on a leather jacket.

Jeremiah wrote:I would not be using lexol I bought for car care on a leather jacket.

Point taken. While car care is a large part of Lexol's market, the conditioner is by no means relegated to leather seats. It's rumored that the Smithsonian at least once upon a time used Lexol (among other brands) for its jacket exhibits.

Im a fan of AutoGlym leather cleaner and Leather lotion ... not sure if they are only UK but the Cleaner is great of areas such as the cuffs and collar that get greasy from skin etc and the Lotion feeds and conditions the leather really well and although initially (obvs because its a lotion) it darkens after a day or two you really cant tell the difference. Keeps the leather in great shape. also has a great smell to it which deodorises the jacket and gets it back to a new leather smell.

Cajunkraut wrote:

Jeremiah wrote:I would not be using lexol I bought for car care on a leather jacket.

Point taken. While car care is a large part of Lexol's market, the conditioner is by no means relegated to leather seats. It's rumored that the Smithsonian at least once upon a time used Lexol (among other brands) for its jacket exhibits.

The Smithsonian has never used Lexol and the chief conservationist there told me that Pecards is not used by them either. Maybe decades ago. In general, if needed, museums custom make conservation paste for the preservation of gear. But mostly they leave leather things alone in special conditions that do minimal damage to leather or fabric or whatever it may be.

Lexol is highly regarded for use on jackets and from what I have seen is one of the best quality leather dressings for jackets available and particularly suitable for lamb and goat. I've used it for the best part of 2 decades.

Just in interest of complete information, the curator of the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum in Oklahoma City, OK told me years ago they used Pecard's exclusively on all their leather gear in storage and displays (and you KNOW how much leather THAT has to contain!), as it was (in their opinion, and their words) the 'best out there' for neutral impact on the leather, while at the same time preserving the leather for future display, storage AND use.

They also used Lexol, so both products are considered fine by professionals.

Regards! Michaelson

CM wrote:The Smithsonian has never used Lexol and the chief conservationist there told me that Pecards is not used by them either. Maybe decades ago. In general, if needed, museums custom make conservation paste for the preservation of gear. But mostly they leave leather things alone in special conditions that do minimal damage to leather or fabric or whatever it may be.

Lexol is highly regarded for use on jackets and from what I have seen is one of the best quality leather dressings for jackets available and particularly suitable for lamb and goat. I've used it for the best part of 2 decades.

I appreciate the follow-up, CM. As I mentioned, rumored.

Welcome - I spoke with Jessica Johnson - Head of Conservation at the Smithsonian in 2015 about this. No doubt some of the smaller, less professional historical organisations use mass produced products on leather. They probably don't do any real harm to leather but they probably provide few benefits. Ms Johnson provided me a series of research papers that assessed the efficacy of commercial dressing leather products which I have lost. Here in Australia I know a couple of war memorial collections (in small exhibitions) that use Dubbin on their leather.

No doubt some of the smaller, less professional historical organisations use mass produced products on leather.

Wow, CM! There's no reason to come down on museum conservators who don't work for the Smithsonian. They're just as qualified and professional as anyone who works for the Institute....they're just employed elsewhere.

Considering some complete 'snafus' that the Smithsonian has done with their own collection in the past, they're not exactly perfection in the field.

Don't get me wrong, they're good, they're VERY good, but they're not always right.

That said, this letter from another militaria leather collctors forum may be of interest, and is quoted from their head curator of the National Parks Service museum system back in 2008:

Dear Jeff,

Ahh Pecard’s, the much beloved leather dressing of military memorabilia
aficionados everywhere. Why it is so popular is beyond me, but I digress.
(And despite what Pecard’s will tell you, the Smithsonian does not use
their product anymore.)

First off, let me say leather is a really hard item to conserve by nature.
So many factors contribute to the characteristics of the final product,
from what sort of animal, how long it was dead, its age at death, the skill
of the skinner and tanner, the processes and chemicals used in the tanning,
to the finishing, the use, the duration of use, care or lack of, age, and
more prior to your acquiring the item. There are no real hard and fast
rules. Most conservators now agree preventive conservation in the form of
storage and support is most important, even in objects showing severe
issues.

In general, leather likes it around 65 degrees or so, and prefers the
humidity between 45%-65%, depending on a number of factors; including mixed
composition such as metal components. It is best to clean leather by
brushing it toughly with a soft, natural bristle brush and use a screened
vacuum to remove the dust and debris so it is not redeposited. The object
then should be fully supported with UNbuffered materials, to keep the
leather from becoming stiff in an awkward position. Leather likes it dark,
especially dyed or painted items. Hands off is preferred, because even
super clean, dry hands can leave oils.

Any good conservator will tell you that the code of ethics followed
dictates that no object receives any treatment that is not fully
reversible. Obviously, dressings of any kind are not. Dressings are just
that, dressings, and research has shown they do not actually restore the
leather in any way. Now lubricating leather can affect (in the short term)
the brittleness and therefore may be used sparingly if desired, but do not
use a petroleum based product such as Pecard’s. Pure lanolin is really the
only thing conservators will recommend. (You can buy lanolin quite easily,
be sure it’s pure). Dressings are only surface deep, and may for a short
time appear to stop problems such as the dreaded red rot, but in actuality
are only making things worse as the petroleum will actually contribute to
the disintegration of the fibrous tissues.

Cheers,
Sarah

I highlighted the line about the Smithsonian, to confirm what CM posted above. It's also of interest that even this group has reversed their opinion about exclusive use of lanolin, as it's an animal based product and attracts insects....effectively making the leather a bug smorgasbord!

So, they've swung back toward the use of products like Lexol AND Pecard's in preservation, as there's more beeswax in Pecards than being a petroleum base product....or produce their own concoctions in their own labs using the same ingredients as long as it lines up with the mentioned 'code of ethics'.

The 'code of ethics' is something that is argued about everywhere in the collector world. What some curators will call an item with an aged surface having extreme 'patina', others simply call 'rust'.

My eldest daughter is a degreed archaeologist, and I remember having to almost walk her out of the Birdcage Theater in Tombstone, AZ backwards, as they, too, practice the 'do no harm' with their collection.....and it's essentially turning to dust. Drove her nuts! There's just so much 'hands off' that should be allowed, and many museums practice things to the extreme.

The debate continues.....

Regards! Michaelson

Well said M. Lanolin! I ruined a good briefcase using that back in the 1980's the bloody thing went rancid!

Same here on a holster I had when I lived in Florida!

Regards! M

ok, since I have "museum curator" under my name, I thought I would add my 2 cents.

Lanolin is a natural oil found in sheepskin and Goat. I have used Lexol Neatsfoot oil leather dressing (non darkening) with quite good results. I don't store my stuff around bugs though, so maybe they would eat it. I also do it very sparingly, in fact on a damp cloth to even out the distribution. It is said to be better for leather than straight neatsfoot oil as the PH is less severe in the leather dressing. I also only do some preventative care when the leather has repeatedly been wet and dried. As wet leather dries, the oils in the leather evaporate as well and when all those oils are gone that’s when leather fibres dryout and crack and are beyond repair.

However, I have also learned that opinions on what works and what does not could fill the library of congress. Remember, leather is put through a lot to become leather, especially the chrome tanned variety. I know some swear by straight petroleum Jelly with good results. It's what John Chapman of Goodwear leather uses on dried out leather A-2s according to one interview.
https://www.denimbro.com/john-chapman-o ... c1101.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the Petrol used in it is processed differently than what is used in automotive products.

I think as long as it does not turn rancid, which plain old neatsfoot will do even in a container, and its used sparingly and only maybe annually, then you will be good with what products are out there. The things in the museum are already ancient, whereas our leather jackets and whips are not. Even over use of Pecards on a Whip can damage it. Just the right amount though is all it takes.

I also try and avoid a product with too much wax as leather needs to breathe and clogging the pores to waterproof it sometimes is not the best thing to do. Or so I have been told. That leather smell you smell is the oils evaporating. its why at times you don't smell it and other times you do.

Also, don't be afraid to get those jackets wet, as even water lubricates and helps. Just be careful with the drying part. I got to visit the tannery of Wickett and Craig last summer. Looking at all those hides in the vats of veg tanning chemicals will assure you that leather can handle water just fine. Its how its made.

I have used a thin layer of vaseline too. Petroleum products are fine for leather. It is not petrol! Natural products do have a tendency to go rancid on leather or destroy stitching which is the weakest part of a leather item. Neatsfoot oil can really screw up a surface, I've found. Avoid. Natural products are not always great for us despite the marketing spin. Opium, arsenic and asbestos are all natural products and look what they can do to us.

I have washed many jackets over 30 years in warm water with detergent to soften them up. Never a problem. Biggest risk is the lining shrinking or tearing - which has never happened to me, thank heavens.

You're a braver man than I am, CM.

I did that ONCE to a new Wested lambskin jacket that I had traded for many years ago that had come from a smoker's house (he had failed to mention that fact in the trade. )

I gave it gentle hand washing, then hung it up in the bathroom shower to air dry. No heat applied.

I watched that jacket slowly, and literally, fall apart! The leather surface drew up and slowly cracked like old melamine, and there was nothing I could do to rescue the leather at all. It was a complete shamble once it had completely dried. Even the lining seams failed.

All I used was Dawn dish washing liquid too......nothing strong at all, and very little of that!

So, needless to say, I don't wash jackets anymore.

Regards! Michaelson

Trenin‘ s Secret Leather-Preservation Formula:

1 Part Human Sebum
2 Parts Extract of Salivary Glands
1 Part Pit Juice
Pinch of Sand from Ancient Hovito Temple

Rub with dark brown cotton (or satin, if you prefer cloth) until shine. Hang to dry using D-Ring. Or buckle. Or eagle-claw buckle. Or available hook.

I bet you don't get very many internet orders, do you?

Michaelson wrote:I bet you don't get very many internet orders, do you?

Well, you have to understand Michaelson. This only for the most elite, hardcore, serious, dedicated fans/leather preservations. And since the product is just in the early adopter phase of the product life cycle, I’m not too worried about it. It’s not for everyone. I estimate I could end up selling dozens of bottles. Dozens!

I salute your.....vision.......

Michaelson wrote:You're a braver man than I am, CM.

I did that ONCE to a new Wested lambskin jacket that I had traded for many years ago that had come from a smoker's house (he had failed to mention that fact in the trade. )

I gave it gentle hand washing, then hung it up in the bathroom shower to air dry. No heat applied.

I watched that jacket slowly, and literally, fall apart! The leather surface drew up and slowly cracked like old melamine, and there was nothing I could do to rescue the leather at all. It was a complete shamble once it had completely dried. Even the lining seams failed.

All I used was Dawn dish washing liquid too......nothing strong at all, and very little of that!

So, needless to say, I don't wash jackets anymore.

Regards! Michaelson

That's a dreadful story and I can imagine your reaction. I have washed about a dozen different jackets in the washing machine with a little standard washing detergent and nothing bad has ever happened. You do think you need to use a front loader as they don't have an agitator for the jacket to get caught up in and they are way more gentle. Apart form loosening up the leather nicely you would hardly ever see a significant difference. The biggest risk in experimenting with jackets is the stitching and lining. A cheap cotton stitching can literally break away from the jacket panels.

I would generally do up the zip so that the jacket is compact and the lining is protected. Nevertheless, I get it if people are cautious and don't want to try it.

Actually, I did use gentle cycle and a front loader machine. I also had it zipped up, so, yeah, it was a pretty distressing day that day.

Fortunately, I had other jackets to put on, but that one didn't last long at THIS house.

Regards! N

Michaelson wrote:Just in interest of complete information, the curator of the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum in Oklahoma City, OK told me years ago they used Pecard's exclusively on all their leather gear in storage and displays (and you KNOW how much leather THAT has to contain!), as it was (in their opinion, and their words) the 'best out there' for neutral impact on the leather, while at the same time preserving the leather for future display, storage AND use.
They also used Lexol, so both products are considered fine by professionals.

This appears to be the crux of the issue: some of the products and processes discussed have been suitable for objects intended for display and storage, others for use. Here's a quote from the Canadian Conservation Institute's technical note 8/2, "Care of Alum, Vegetable, and Mineral Tanned Leather:"

museum objects do not need to be rendered flexible since their function is no longer the same as the original intended use. If objects are stored, displayed, used, and handled properly, flexibility no longer plays an important role. Care of stiff leathers should therefore not include the application of saddle soap or a dressing, but should instead be focused on handling procedures and proper support of the artifacts.

I highly recommend the CCI Notes series. Here's their URL leading to Care of Objects & Collections:
https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-i ... jects.html

And remember, YMMV.

Excellent info and points, Nosirrah.

The whole point of moving leather is that it cracks when the fibers located in the areas of distressing (specifically the areas that are flexed the most like elbows and shoulders) are not able to move past each other. This is what causes the leather to eventually crack.

Putting a leather product on those areas essentially lubricates the fibers and allows them to slide past each other when flexed.....and those areas survive the constant abrasion that is what eventually leads to those areas to fail in a tear.

When it comes to items on display, these leather items AREN'T moving, as has been mentioned, but the use of leather product in areas that are (or could be) handled in terms of being moved should be addressed with a good leather product that is pH balanced and won't lead to making the leather a good 'bug buffet'. This is why many museums still apply product to the entire display piece, as many times just a piece being ON display can eventually crack and fail due to it's own weight.

Regards! Michaelson

Anyone ever use BLACKROCK ?

Sarge recommended it when I purchased my first USW jacket. He suggested I wear the jacket regularly for at least a year before applying it.

I have only used this product on a light-tan hat sweatband - and it did leave the sweatband permanently dark. But I imagine the sweatband is much more porous and absorbent than any leather jacket.

Thanks for your input!


AO

I also have used Lexol on my jackets over the years with great results! 3 US Wings and 1 S&J LC are all still going strong and soft!