Bullwhip recommendations - EU based

Blackadder · Post by **Blackadder** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:19 am

So , anyone has any idea where I can get a good kangaroo whip in EU ? You can also recommend other makers, but would prefer EU because of less trouble with customs. Only store I found is this one http://www.outdoorhobbies.co.uk/8ft-kan ... 1539-p.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any help and advice is appreciated.

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:21 am

http://giovanniceleste.it/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Giovanni is in Italy and does beautiful work.

Blackadder · Post by **Blackadder** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:37 am

Tibor wrote:http://giovanniceleste.it/en/

Giovanni is in Italy and does beautiful work.

Looks good, what is the avarage price do you know maybe ?

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:22 am

I can recommend Emanuele from http://www.lelecsworld.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Italy)

I had his whips and they are just perfect. And the ordering and customization process is purely amazing

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:42 pm

Blackadder wrote:
Tibor wrote:http://giovanniceleste.it/en/

Giovanni is in Italy and does beautiful work.
Looks good, what is the avarage price do you know maybe ?

I don't know... years back they were around €350 but you should send him a note and find out- can't hurt.

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:54 pm

Why are some roo whips around $400 and some $700+??? Is there big differences I’m missing? I’d love to find a local whip maker here in LA.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:28 pm

Giovanni's whips are priced on length & strand count, like most whip makers. It just depends on how much you're willing to spend. I'm currently waiting on a deluxe Zorro bullwhip that set me back over 6 bills, but Gio's quality is absolutely superb, and well worth the investment.

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:07 pm

Speaking of which. What ever happened to jmwhips? Jeremy showed promise.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:29 am

Jeremy gave up the whipmaking biz to focus on a career as an EMS responder, for which he is currently in training. He also cited several negative experiences with whip customers that dampened his enthusiasm for the hobby. I was fortunately able to commission one final whip from him earlier this year, being a repeat customer on good terms with him. But I agree that his whipcraft is incredible, and he is an exceptionally talented whipmaker with an eye for detail that, in my opinion, is unsurpassed in the field.

Here's the 16-plait Indy bullwhip he made for me back in 2013:

It's a work of art. Giovanni just e-mailed me this morning to say that he is beginning work on my Zorro bullwhip, which is essentially a clone of the 16-plait Indy, except in black leather with a silver Z engraved coin on the bottom of the handle.

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:26 am

Great news, Whipwarrior! I think that means I am next in line, or pretty close to!

Blackadder · Post by **Blackadder** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:22 am

That looks awesome, whole other league from my budget cowhide whip.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:43 pm

He's on the second belly now, and cutting the overlay strands. I can't believe how fast Gio works! He's a miracle whip maker!

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:25 pm

Oh, wow! That is fast! Pretty soon your new baby will be in your hands!

I'm sure that with experience and practice great 'speeds' can be achieved without sacrificing quality. Or should I say "while maintaining excellent quality". And Gio is a very experienced whip-maker from what I understand!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:33 pm

Yeah, he said pretty much the same thing:

With time you become faster. Anyway during my working day I have many things to do apart from whipmaking, like reply to the mail, stay on social network, shipping whips, calling on the phone and stuff like this. I prefer this way to work instead stay for 8 hours/day in front of the whipping hook. I'm sure after a week I'll become crazy!!!

Progress so far:

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:28 am

That looks really good! The plaiting seems so tight and gapless! Fine workmanship! Can't wait to see the overlay!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:41 am

That's why he has a 5+ month wait time for his whips.

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:45 pm

Eh, 5+ months isn't even that bad, I would say.

Dusty at Crease'n'Corral has updated the site that he'll be taking no more orders until his waiting time is back to 90 days... (currently it stands at one year...).

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:01 pm

That's about the norm. Earlier this year, I was shopping around my first whip project (after learning that Jeremy was retired), and I contacted Dusty, Midwest Whips, Northern Whip Co, etc. In every case, they were either not accepting new orders, or had a 1-year + wait time. That's frustrating especially when they leave their website up to display whips that are unobtainable. At least Jeremy had the decency to delete his website, so as not to mislead folks. After he graciously accepted my last order and delievered that incredible stockwhip, I decided to take my next project overseas to Europe, where the whipmakers are more accommodating. I was very pleased by Giovanni's professional courtesy and humbleness, counterpoint to the stark egotism of American whipmakers who seem to believe that just because they've supplied whips for a movie automatically elevates them above accepting orders from the 'regular folks' who they built their reputations on.

Blackadder · Post by **Blackadder** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:01 pm

I should really get something like this in the future, worth the wait judging by the pictures, however I am tempted to get the kangaroo one from the site I mentioned, and it is in stock.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:14 pm

Blackadder - that is a very nice, extremely well-made bullwhip by whiplashbullwhips.co.uk! The only reason to buy custom is if you want a specific whip that is not commercially available (i.e.- custom color / pattern, higher strand count, specific handle or whip length). I've been throwing leather for over 20 years, and I promise that you will be happy with the Game of Thrones bullwhip. Yes, the £399.99 is a real hit to the wallet, but it's on-par with any professionally-crafted high quality kangaroo whip. Bottom line: you get exactly what you pay for, and this whip will last you forever if properly used and cared for.

Blackadder · Post by **Blackadder** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:29 am

whipwarrior wrote:Blackadder - that is a very nice, extremely well-made bullwhip by whiplashbullwhips.co.uk! The only reason to buy custom is if you want a specific whip that is not commercially available (i.e.- custom color / pattern, higher strand count, specific handle or whip length). I've been throwing leather for over 20 years, and I promise that you will be happy with the Game of Thrones bullwhip. Yes, the £399.99 is a real hit to the wallet, but it's on-par with any professionally-crafted high quality kangaroo whip. Bottom line: you get exactly what you pay for, and this whip will last you forever if properly used and cared for.

I have read a few tips for taking care of whip, how often do you condition your whips and with which products ? A custom whip that I had in mind would be the crystal skull one, this whip from whiplash looks closest to LC I think.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:40 am

Pecards dressing is the best product for leather, as it is chemically neutral and contains no salts which would damage leather. I condition my whips usually once or twice a year, depending how often I use them. A brand new whip will not need oiling for awhile, but older whips require a good coat every 6 - 8 months to maintain suppleness and prevent drying out completely. A medium coat will generally suffice, so don't slather the whip with grease. Just apply with a soft cloth, hang the whip to dry for a few hours, then wipe off. Pecards has the texture of vaseline ointment, and is basically petroleum gel. Its very greasy, so you should wear latex gloves while applying, otherwise you'll spend 20 minutes washing your hands to remove it.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:41 pm

Working on the overlay now. Look at that beautiful 8-strand transition...

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:56 pm

Giovanni's craftsmanship evolved over the years and now he is really good. His whips look awesome.

Do you happen to know what is the silver binding on the handle in the inner layers? Is it sinew? Tape? I'm just curious.

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:09 pm

Wuuuhuuu, Whipwarrior!!! Your baby is coming along amazingly!

I bet you are excited! It is so nice of Gio to be sending you progress pics!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:41 pm

I've never seen silver binding like that before, but I assume it's some type of aluminum tape or thread. Very unique, but it won't ever be seen again since it's buried within the whip body. And yes, I'm thrilled at watching this whip finally materialize after so many months of waiting! Now I'm tempted to get a Zorro eye mask.

Okay, not really!

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:56 pm

Be careful, Whipwarrior... The Zorro franchise would mean a whole new heap of gear acquisition:

- a new type of hat
- a sword, which can compete price wise with a good whip
- a horse, perhaps...

Cheers,
Bear

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:11 pm

No, that's going a bit far. I only cosplay as one whipcracking movie character, and he wears a brown fedora. Plus, a white guy dressed as Zorro is just wrong on so many levels.

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:33 am

Ok, ok, just the whip, then.

Zorro's whip was actually the one that got me interested in bullwhips. Not the one from the "Mask of Zorro" that came out later and only fuelled my obsession, but the one from the old cartoons.

I only recently changed my tastes towards Indy's whip and after that the rest of the gear 'need' came with it.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:48 am

I've been a fan of The Mask of Zorro since it came out 20 years ago, and I had always admired David Morgan's whips in the movie. That's what finally drove me to get this whip, which effectively completes my collection.

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:20 am

My mind was blown when I first saw the movie in the theather. I have seen it many times since and once this year. It is still an amazing movie after all this time.

Regarding the whip, will this be the version with the silver ferrule you're getting?

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:24 am

No, this is a 16-plait version of the DM whip used by Antonio Banderas (Alejandro) in the movie. The silver ferrule is on the target whip that Anthony Hopkins used in the candle target scene. On my whip, I opted for a silver plate on the bottom of the heel knot, with the movie logo Z engraved in the metal.

I was also amazed at the movie in 1998, and delighted by the exceptional sequel in 2005. Both are excellent swashbuckling adventures with lots of great action and humor. There was more whip use in the sequel, including that near-impossible whip swing from the speeding train at the end, which would break any whip like a piece of flimsy string in real life. Talk about an indestructible super whip!

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:31 am

That sounds like it will look really awesome! It's cool that Giovanni offers these customization options!

I thought I was the only one who enjoyed the sequel as much as the original. I know all the scenes where the whip pops up. Just like in the Indy movies, actually!

All the whip swinging in the movies gave me quite a hassle growing up. "How can it grab on?", "How can it let go?", all the science defying stuff.

Then I learned that whips are like swords, they cannot do the things you see in movies if you want them to last.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:43 pm

It is finished, at last!

Magnificent... masterful... perfect. A whip worthy of Zorro! I'll post a full review with pics when it arrives!

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:05 pm

Magnificent indeed!!! It is a beauty! Can't wait for your review and pics!

And now the second wait begins. From when Giovanni ships it until it gets to yooouuu!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:54 pm

This wait isn't nearly as tortuous. I waited over 2 years for an Adventurebilt hat back in the day; a few weeks is a cake walk by comparison!

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:40 pm

Oh, man, and I thought waiting a few months for a whip was a lot.

Ever since I got into Indiana Jones gear I have learned about huge waiting times.

But that is good, it means business is blooming and we have from where to get our stuff.

By the way, I just saw more photos of your Black Beauty on Giovanni's Facebook and Instagram! It is grand and awesome looking!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:31 pm

Yeah, he sent me a batch of photos this morning, showing all angles of the whip. I am immensely pleased at how it turned out. It is exactly like I imagined all those months ago. Giovanni is truly a master artisan of the highest calibre.

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:20 pm

You're a lucky one, Whipwarrior! And I think so am I, as my first leather bullwhip will be from Gio!

I am a bit afraid I will want another one and another one, and it will be a big toll on my budget! I would dare say it would put a...CRACK in it!!!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:27 pm

Here's my whip rack (the empty peg is reserved for the new Zorro whip). I've used whips since 1994, having bought and sold several before arriving at my final collection. Clockwise from upper left is my David Morgan #453 custom, then JM Whips Indy 16-plait, JM Whips 1940's stockwhip, and in the middle, JM Whips 6-ft. pocket snake (dark whiskey), and DM 3-ft. dog quirt. All of the falls are bridle leather, from MakeItJones in England.

And yes, whip collecting is VERY expensive, which is why it's good to pace yourself so you don't break the bank!

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:56 pm

Very nice collection!

I saw a lot of amazing feedback about Jeremy’s whips (I know he is now retired) and I thought it was truly amazing for such a young guy to be showing such talent, dedication and attention to detail that he could earn such praise.

The fact that your matured collection features three of his pieces is proof the rumours were true.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:13 pm

What drew me to Jeremy's whips (back in 2013) was the praise from every corner of the whipcracking community. I saw a few video reviews on YouTube, then visited his website and marveled at the perfection of his skill, remarkable (as you said) for someone of such young age. He literally mastered the craft of whipmaking in about 5 years of diligent practice, gradually honing his skills to produce whips that, in my honest opinion, rival David Morgan and all the great whipmakers of the world. When you really look at his product, the strands are cut, beveled, and laced with almost machine-like precision that it's mindblowing. And recognizing the quality of his work, compared to Morgan (who was very elderly at the height of his craft), it made sense to invest in Jeremy's whips because he's in his prime. He has the dexterity and strength to braid an incredibly tight whip lash and, much as I hate to admit, as people age, they physically diminish in eyesight, strength, stamina, etc. While widely praised as an expert, folks noted that David Morgan's whips were plaited somewhat on the loose side compared to other whip makers, but the man was in his 70's! So the moral of the story is to strike while the iron is hot.

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:44 am

Well, whipmaking is not easy on your body. Your hands, back and neck can be reaaally sore after a long plaiting session. And as you said... People age and everything starts going and giving in. All the experience in the world can't help you then, unfortunately.

So I think you made a sound investment 'striking the iron while it was hot'!

And I think I am a bit privileged to have come into the hobby in a time when there are so many reviews and opinions helping you choose the best. Well, until now it wasn't an option for me, financially speaking, to buy a whip... Even now it's spreading my budget veeeeeery thin, but I think I waited enough for 25 years.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:07 am

Back in 2008, there was a news story about David Morgan because he made the Indiana Jones movie whips, and they interviewed David at his whipmaking shop in Seattle. In the video, he held up his hands and showed how his fingers were crooked from decades of pulling leather while braiding whips. He said he couldn't un-cross them. It was a testament to his devotion to the craft of whipmaking. While discussing the details of my first whip with Jeremy, I sent him a link to the video and jokingly warned that his hands might end up that way if he braided whips for the rest of his life!

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:57 pm

Hmmm, so it was you who scared Jeremy out of whip making. Finally we are getting to the bottom of this.

On a more serious note I can imagine a lifetime of plaiting really deforms your fingers beyond repair. After a lenghty session my index finger's knuckles on both hands are swollen and painful. And the other fingers feel like they've been tenderised for schnitzels.

As you said we can only admire the lifelong dedication of professional whipmakers, putting passion before their bodies.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:58 pm

Hmmm, so it was you who scared Jeremy out of whip making. Finally we are getting to the bottom of this.

I never quite thought of it that way! But no, I doubt that had anything to do with his decision. That was years ago!

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:40 am

Yes, yes, I was only joking.

No worries, don't let your conscience be bothered by that!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:12 pm

Quality makes all the difference.

bearbeast · Post by **bearbeast** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:21 am

What is that abomination on the left???

The sad thing is that they also charge you a lot for that piece of...string...

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:00 am

That abomination is a cheap Ruby's costume 'whip' accessory for the Zorro Halloween costume. I thought it was good for a laugh.