Herbert Johnson and the Young Indy fedora

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon May 08, 2017 10:13 am

Since we have Jack@HJ as a member of COW, and he's been so kind about providing information about the original Raiders hat, I thought it might be worth asking about the hats from the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles. Admittedly, some of them look to be badly in need of a reblock:

but others looks like some really nice, quirky hats:

So, Jack, do you have any info on these hats? Anything you can provide (ribbon width, brim width, crown height, felt color, block, etc.) would be much appreciated!

Also, would HJ be able to reproduce this hat, using the original block they used, the same type of ribbon, etc.? Thanks!

-M

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Wed May 10, 2017 10:38 am

That's some great information! That very neatly explains how the YIJC hat ended up having such a different ribbon from the film hats.

Hmm...the young Indy hat doesn't look like it has a 3 inch brim. I suppose the production team of YIJC probably cut the brim down upon receiving the hat?

Thanks so much for going to the trouble of making a sample one. As always, your information is invaluable and enlightening.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Wed May 10, 2017 11:48 am

Oh, by "different ribbon," I meant different from Raiders, ToD and LC. I have no doubt that, when you say it was 50 mm, it was 50 mm.

So it sounds like, from what you're saying, if someone wanted an authentic YIJC hat, they'd just have to order a standard Poet, and ask for a slightly narrower brim (I'm guessing 2 5/8 inches all around, since the side measurement on the YIJC brim looks about the same as that of the movie hats, but that's just a guess).

Yeah, it certainly doesn't look like these hats were well maintained at all - the Young Indy hats are even more inconsistent in its look from scene to scene than the ToD hat. I seem to have heard that, due to the extreme expenses of shooting on a different location for each episode, they tried to cut costs elsewhere (using 16 mm film instead of 35 mm, for example). I wouldn't be surprised if their costumes department was operating on a shoe string budget and didn't buy many spare hats, didn't hire many people to staff the costumes department, or both.

Howard Weinstein · Post by **Howard Weinstein** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:34 pm

Mulceber wrote:

Does anybody know which YOUNG INDIANA JONES episode the above photo is from? I've been watching them lately on Amazon Prime streaming, but I haven't seen any in which the hat starts looking more like Indy's later fedora (as in this pic), as opposed to the floppy, beat-up hat in the other shows (which Jack at Herbert Johnson has said began life as off-the-shelf early-'90s Poet).

Thanks for any help!

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:42 pm

Iirc, it's from "Love's Sweet Song," the episode where Indy falls in love with the British suffragette, right before the war episodes start.

Howard Weinstein · Post by **Howard Weinstein** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:23 pm

Mulceber wrote:Iirc, it's from "Love's Sweet Song," the episode where Indy falls in love with the British suffragette, right before the war episodes start.

Hmmm...not sure if that's in the Amazon Prime episodes. For some reason, they're missing some.

Howard Weinstein · Post by **Howard Weinstein** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:31 pm

Howard Weinstein wrote:
Mulceber wrote:Iirc, it's from "Love's Sweet Song," the episode where Indy falls in love with the British suffragette, right before the war episodes start.
Hmmm...not sure if that's in he Amazon Prime episodes. For some reason, they're missing some.

Got it! Just watched the first half in Ireland; the London half tomorrow. It's odd how when the show first aired, they bounced all over in time, rather than showing the episodes in chronological order. The Amazon streaming shows are the recut "movie" length (90 min) shows released on DVD. Still, since I saw them so long ago, it's fun watching them again.

But their hat continuity was terrible!

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:42 am

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but I am finally buying a YIJC hat and from HJ.

What’s the consensus on the brim width? HJ have said 3 inches, accurate or not that will look ridiculous on me.

Prior to looking I had thought 2 5/8 or 2 6/8 is where it landed. The 3 inch brim is more Tom Baker than anything.

I’ll ultimately go on what works for me, but any insight on screen accuracy will be helpful.

Bates Hats have a Poet in London so I may go in and test that out.

Thanks

Gerry

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Howard Weinstein · Post by **Howard Weinstein** » Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:05 am

As we know, the Young Indy hat took various shapes throughout the TV series. Wasn't it the general consensus that Young Indy's hat was an off-the-shelf Poet with a standard 3" brim and a wider ribbon? More or less beat-up, depending on the episode.

If you Google "Young Indiana Jones hat," you'll find quite a few images to check out, and in most the brim does look like it's 3". Like the one at this link: shorturl.at/eJN17

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:29 am

I assumed there was more of a question mark around the brim looking at Mulceber’s posts on 2 5/8 and as Jack’s original comments are gone it’s hard to fill the gaps.

The 3 inch brim is what HJ use on their Dr Who poet and it just looks too much.

I may end up going to Bates’ and trying their Poet to see what a 3inch brim looks like.

Thanks

Gerry

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backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:44 pm

Everything I heard is just that. Unaltered maybe 3" ( Swales told a few folks here that the brim was 3 1/8") brim that was just not taken care of at all during filming and then eventually for some reason worn backwards (maybe due to how bad a condition it was in) in episodes such as Peacock's eye and Hollywood follies.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:32 pm

I can't comment on the specs of the young Indy hat, but as far as brim widths go, I really like a 3"-3 1/4" brim. I would say not to write it off immediately. It's a different profile than the standard dress fedora, but 3"-ish brims were popular on a lot of midcentury dress westerns.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:34 am

Thanks both!

Order just placed today, 3 inch brim, so I’ll keep the thread updated.

HJ are low on Deep Sable in beaver so I’ve went rabbit - probably the better option as it will be lighter and floppier.

Gerry

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The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:02 am

Why is it time always slows down when your hat is nearly ready! Went in the block end of last week…

Gerry

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Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:58 am

Admittedly, I don’t have a percentage of the knowledge on hats as a lot of you do, but to me it seems quite obvious that the YIJ fedora in many episodes were turned backwards and rebashed and the ribbon moved. My evidence:
The shadows of the ‘normal’ bashing are visible on the -now back of the hat, the brim curve, and the crown is lower in the front than the -new rear…
I have not heard this theory anywhere else but to me it’s pretty obvious.

I’ll try to get some episodes for references posted when I have time.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:29 pm

Picked it up last week when I was last in London. Think they got it pretty spot on. No photos in the wild yet.

It’s in the deep sable rabbit, which is a massive improvement on the last rabbit I handled there about two years ago - it was almost scratchy. This is a lot smoother, very light and floppy. Happy with the purchase.

Incidentally they have changed the new sweats to say Mayfair rather than Piccadilly, and removed Piccadilly from the liner.

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Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:01 pm

That’s one nice looking lid, can’t wait to see it in the wild.

Congrats

Croft