Club Obi Wan

Hello all,

I know there have been a couple of other threads about purchasing Wested jackets recently, but I wanted to post my experience and share some information that I would have wanted to read before my attempt to purchase a Wested LC via mail order from the USA.

I found Wested after some research. I initially wanted to get the US Wings Legend jacket, but I didn't want to spend $500. Searching the internet, I found that I could get a Wested jacket for around $220 for an off the shelf size and around $260 for a custom size. I read all the guides on Wested's website as well as their blogs. I took my own measurements and found that I could fit in a standard 44" based on Wested's size chart. So my plan was this. Buy an off the shelf 44. Shipping would cost me around $30. If all went well, I would have a jacket for $250. If it didn't fit, I would just send it back. I would just have to eat the return shipping charge, but then I would have a baseline to size a custom jacket.

This is where my plan was doomed to fail. I paid around $30 to get it shipped to me, so I figured I would have to pay around $30 to ship it back. That is not how it works unfortunately.

After I did my research and made my purchase, I sat back and waited for my jacket to arrive. Ignorance was bliss at that point. I figured the hard choices were over. I had done a lot of research. I decided on a Wested LC. Wested describes it as the roomier of the jackets when compared to the Raiders. The blog described the Raiders as a more tailored fit and the LC as more relaxed. Biker love the LC according to the blog. More room in the shoulders. Even so, I did confirm with customer service before I ordered that if I followed their directions and ordered a size 44 for my just under 44 inch chest, I would not fit like a suit coat and I would have room to layer. Their website says you can layer a jumper under the jacket when you order your chest size. After confirming that a jumper is similar to a sweater or hoodie, I ordered the size 44.

It finally arrived. It was a beautiful looking LC in predistressed cowhide. I was wearing a t shirt when I tried it on for the first time. It fit like a wet suit. I could zip it up but it was tight. No way I could layer anything under it. The shoulders were so tight I couldn't raise my arms enough to get my hands in the hand warmer pockets. I assume the bikers that love this fit must ride unicycles and keep their arms down by their sides. The arm length was shorter than I expected. With my hands down by my sides, the cuff did not completely cover my watch. I took it off and checked the tag to make sure I wasn't sent the wrong size, but it said it was a 44.

I took some measurements of the jacket. The length of the shoulder was supposed to be 7.5 inches. My jacket was 7. More concerning was the arm measurement. Measuring from where the sleeve is secured to the body of the jacket to the cuff, I couldn't get a length of greater than 24 inches. The size chart on the website says the sleeves are supposed to be 25.5 inches. I understand measurements can be off slightly on a handmade item, but I didn't think 1.5 inches too short on a sleeve length was an acceptable amount of deviation. The back was actually half an inch longer than it was supposed to be based on the Wested size chart.

So based on the fit of the jacket I received, I figured what I wanted was a jacket with one size up in the chest, 2.5 inches longer in the arms and 2 inches longer in the back. If the jacket had fit in the chest as described on the Wested website, I could have lived with the sleeves and back being shorter than perfect. But now I could get a custom jacket.

My jacket came via DHL Express, so I attempted to return it the same way. Imagine my surprise when I was quoted a shipping cost of $132. What I didn't understand is that some vendors have a contract with shippers, which gives them a reduced rate. Since I did not have a contract with DHL, it was going to cost me huge money to ship it back that way. So I went to a UPS store and was quoted slightly over $100. The US Post Office quoted me a price of $65. Had I known that my initial plan of returning an improperly fitting jacket would ultimately add almost $100 to the purchase price ($30 out and $65 back), I would have come up with another plan. Let me be clear that this misunderstanding with how much shipping was going to cost was totally my fault, not Wested's.

I prepared some instructions to Wested regarding the updated sizing I was looking for. Since I was going custom I decided to add gussets and an extra pocket. That would bring the price up a further $50-60. Also in the instructions I requested that they measure the jacket to confirm I received the correct jacket, and to contact me before proceeding. I shipped it out via USPS and waited.

Upon Wested's receipt of my jacket, I was told that the chest measured correctly, and that the arms were 24.5 inches. I was sent a new invoice for the upgrade to a custom jacket.

I decided not to go with the custom. I emailed them back and stated I had lost confidence in the purchase, since the jacket I received did not fit as described in the chest and that the arms were shorter than advertised. I explained further that my concern was that if I went with the custom and it still did not fit, I would be on the hook for at least $65 more in shipping plus a restocking fee. I asked for confirmation that there was no restocking fee for the off the shelf jacket I had purchased.

I did not get a return email, just a notification from PayPal that my account had been credited the purchase price minus the shipping fee. So after many hours of research, 6 weeks of back and forth, and $95, I am back at square one. Lesson learned.

I hope someone like me may read this and make an informed decision about how they want to purchase their first Indy jacket. I made a mistake with shipping cost, but I also followed a ton of advice provided by Wested, and still couldn't order a jacket that fit. When each bite at the apple costs you $100, other options may become more plausible. If I ever find myself in a Wested showroom, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one after trying them on for proper fit. It was a great looking jacket. But the information on their website is a minefield.

That's very valuable information, and a great post, in my opinion. If I may chime in... I have no experience with Wested, in part because of similar horror stories I've heard tell of around campfires. I was very fortunate that Todd's were available when I was first looking for an Indy jacket. I really wanted a Wested because of the history, but had no idea how to go about ordering one, measuring guide or not. Todd's was in the U.S., inexpensive, and got rave revues. When I was ready for a bespoke jacket, Steele & Jones lured me in with a multitude of satisfied customers and incredible pictures. But I also had the Todd's that fit me well as a baseline Indy jacket. I'd still like to have a Wested, but also lack confidence in purchasing from them.

That's interesting that the 44 fit you very tight. I have ordered two size 44 off the rack Wested Raiders jackets and they both have fit me very good. The first was my goatskin and I love the jacket. Sizing was perfect in every way imaginable.

However, my lambskin was a bit off. The sleeves were about 1/2 inch longer than my goat jacket and I didnt like it in the end. I made the decision to sell it and go with S&J.

My advice: go with S&J. Custom all the way and it will fit...

Kozmoedave and I have similar stories (as detailed in another thread). I've got a Todd's and am very happy with it. I was looking at getting a Wested, and may still one day, but there were enough stories like Synycyl's to make me a little nervous about it. Even the folks who are big Wested fans often say things like, "It took two or three (or more) tries, but I finally got a good one." Now, there's much to be said about getting an Indy jacket made by the guy who made Indy's jacket, and certainly the best Westeds look wonderful, but that's a lot of trial and error. (And yes, I know some got a Wested they loved right off the bat, but that does seem to be the minority.) S&J, however, are in the same ballpark price-wise for a custom Indy jacket and, from what I've seen, get it right the first time. Not trying to run down Wested, as I said, they do make some great jackets, just adding my perspective as a newbie to the hobby.

It is unfortunate that you had to go through that. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but in reading your post, there was the possibility of giving them your exact measurements, and they could have closely matched what you wanted in another OTR jacket, if you wanted to save money. Buy a measuring tape if you don't have one. They are not too much, and have someone measure you, such as a tailor or a family member, more than once. It appeared that the jacket was not a true 44.

Usually, if you order a 44, there is some extra built into the jacket, due to the side panels. And true, the LC has traditionally been on the relaxed fit side.

If you do not want to give them another try, then BK or S&J can really hit it out of the park.

This sizing guide will help you in that regard, and Diego tells me that he is updating his site as well. Add to this diagram the top shoulder seam measurements, which are identical on both sides, obviously:

https://www.google.com/search?q=jacket+ ... WPJ1o-U_gM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is my experience and observation that Wested measurements are frequently off, but not always. But hey, mistakes happen.

The real problem is that they won't admit to or take responsibility for their mistakes. And, depending on who you deal with, communication can run the gamut of rosy and delightful to downright rude. It's a shame, because when they get it right- they really get it right.

Synycyl's experience should be required reading.

Is it just me or am I seeing a pattern here? It looks like QC has been lax since Rebecca left Wested, based on the feedback from members in the forum lately?

Texan Scott wrote:It is unfortunate that you had to go through that. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but in reading your post, there was the possibility of giving them your exact measurements, and they could have closely matched what you wanted in another OTR jacket, if you wanted to save money. Buy a measuring tape if you don't have one. They are not too much, and have someone measure you, such as a tailor or a family member, more than once. It appeared that the jacket was not a true 44.

If you have had experience purchasing an off the shelf from Wested that fit your custom measurements, your experience does not match mine. Their own measuring guide states that they do not consider the "pit to pit" measurement a valid measurement. I followed all of their instructions printed in their measuring guide to the letter.

http://wested.com/ekmps/shops/westedcom ... urself.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I honestly don't think providing other measurements would have changed anything. I measured the chest as instructed and it did not fit. I ordered an off the shelf jacket. I did not provide any custom measurements, but I did make sure that I measured my chest, sleeves and back according to their instructions, and made sure that combination of measurements matched the fit chart for that jacket. I should have received a jacket that fit a 44" chest, with 25.5" sleeves and a 26.5" back. The chest did not fit as advertised. I know for a fact that the sleeves were off 1.5" so I am not convinced that whatever sizes I gave them would have resulted in me receiving those sizes. (Full disclosure. I couldn't find a sleeve length on the jacket they sent me over 24" no matter how I took the measurement. Wested said the sleeves measured 24.5". I call shenanigans. In my opinion, they called the sleeve length 24.5 so they could say it was only an inch off of what was advertised. But of course I no longer have the jacket, so how can I prove my suspicion?)

The point of my post wasn't to bash anyone or discount anyone else's successful experiences. I just wanted to pass on a perspective of someone new to the hobby for others new to the hobby to consider. I did not accidentally happen upon the Wested website and click "buy now" after 5 minutes because I saw a pretty jacket. I completed as much research as I could. Most of it was based on Wested's website. I did research these forums, but most of the posts I came across did not involve off the shelf sizing. And a lot of the posts are several years old, which may not be an accurate representation of the current purchasing experience.

Bottom line for me is this. You can do all the research possible, and take all the measurements you want. In early 2017 It is still a @#$% shoot. And if you don't get the correct fit the first time, you are $100 in the hole to start with.

I don't like it when things like this happen, and across the pond, even. Hindsight, but I would have said, here are my chest, sleeve and back measurements. Can you please match these measurements as closely as possible? This gets someone engaged in the process and to physically putting a tape on a jacket, rather than just pulling the next one from the shelf. May not be exact, because its pre-made, but it certainly could be close, maybe one spec or the other.

Texan Scott wrote:I don't like it when things like this happen, and across the pond, even. Hindsight, but I would have said, here are my chest, sleeve and back measurements. Can you please match these measurements as closely as possible? This gets someone engaged in the process and to physically putting a tape on a jacket, rather than just pulling the next one from the shelf. May not be exact, because its pre-made, but it certainly could be close, maybe one spec or the other.

I hear you. I have heard Akubra is good about cases like that with their hats. If you happen to fall between sizes, they try to find a hat that matches your head better.

But wouldn't it be nice if $220 was enough to get someone "engaged in the process"?

I hear you. In terms of an 'authentic' LC repro., matching details from the movie jacket, fit etc., S&J could most likely hit it out of the park for you.

You probably have read where others talk about jacket ride up with the LC, and that is due to the larger diameter arm holes. The way to remedy that is to have the sleeves cut closer to the arm, mainly at the joinder of the sleeve and torso, the "arm hole" basically. If you look at certain scenes, like the blimp, you can see that this particular jacket is closer fitting. Some scenes are different as is the jacket, but this is where you have to make a judgment call as to faithfulness to film vs. real world practicality.

Texan Scott wrote:I hear you. In terms of an 'authentic' LC repro., matching details from the movie jacket, fit etc., S&J could most likely hit it out of the park for you.

You probably have read where others talk about jacket ride up with the LC, and that is due to the larger diameter arm holes. The way to remedy that is to have the sleeves cut closer to the arm, mainly at the joinder of the sleeve and torso, the "arm hole" basically. If you look at certain scenes, like the blimp, you can see that this particular jacket is closer fitting. Some scenes are different as is the jacket, but this is where you have to make a judgment call as to faithfulness to film vs. real world practicality.

In terms of the jacket, I am not at all concerned about screen accuracy.

What I want for a jacket is pretty simple. I want to wrap my torso in leather. Preferable brown cowhide. Add an appropriate length sleeve designed so I can actually move my arms. Preferably one on each side. I probably wont be hanging from a blimp, but it would be nice to be able to bring a cup of coffee up to my mouth. Put a zipper up the middle of the front. Put a couple pockets on the front. Put a collar around the hole in the top. Done.

Maybe what I want isn't compatible with an Indy jacket?

you mean....a practical jacket.... I mean...

I would suspect there is one out there for you.

They're out there. I've had so many Indy jackets in and out of my hands over the past 30 years I've lost count, all supposedly the same size and specifications to fit ME!

Quite frankly, I can only recall 4 that ever fit me like they were honestly made FOR me, and from MY personal specs!

Ironically, 3 of the 4 were OTR, so yes, they're out there, and eventually (if you persevere!) you WILL find one that you just can't take off, it fits your shape and movements so perfectly!

When that happens, you won't be able to wipe the smile off your face for a LONG time.

Regard! Michaelson

....git that grin off ur face, big dawg!

Don't say you probably won't be hanging from a blimp! In my experience that's a sure-fire way of guaranteeing that you'll be hanging from a blimp before the week is out!

Texan Scott wrote:Is it just me or am I seeing a pattern here? It looks like QC has been lax since Rebecca left Wested, based on the feedback from members in the forum lately?

It was the same way before that, too. I think we just know better now.

For a period of years there, maybe 4-5, they were making strides in communication and QC, but Rebecca, Peter's granddaughter took a different job at an ad agency/publicity, if I recall, and we seem to have slid a bit?

She was on top of things. Yet, this after market stuff is not exactly their bread and butter, as is TV and film, repros for fans.

Last year I ordered a custom Wested...not an Indy jacket, but the very close A-2. I sent Detailed instructions, one of which was the placing of the New Old Stock (rare) WWII AAF decal on the left sleeve. Since I had 2, I sent both in case they messed one up. I got the jacket with BOTH decals SEWN ON...one on each sleeve. OMG, 2 Ruined Antiques! And 2 ruined sleeves.

What kind of moron even sews on a cardboard backed decal?!

They were most apologetic (for what that's worth) and did repairs for me, replacing both sleeves. Plus, since they put the zipper on this 100% American style jacket on in the reverse European style...they switched that out free. (That's one thing I had not specified- thinking it was pretty obvious). They also picked up the return (to me) postage.

3 years before that I ordered a Wested Raiders style custom fit which arrived too tight. I took photos with a ruler laid across the offending areas and copied them on my original instructions. They fixed it to perfection at their own cost.

I have also owned a Kelso and S & J. The Kelso was costly, a little heavy in the leather, but cut perfectly. The S & J (my favorite) was a very reasonable price, and fits and looks perfect. Even flows properly as I move! They really get into detail to make the jacket not just accurate, but accurate to your particular body.

In my opinion, S & J can't be beat for the money. I can't personally justify the price of a Kelso, and while S & J is more costly than a Wested, I've never seen ONE negative comment regarding them. They seem to be hitting everything out of the park, not just in terms of quality product, but also customer service. The leather you want in a jacket that's customized for YOU, and done VERY well, at a reasonable price (compared to some others, more than reasonable), with excellent communication throughout the process. While I understand wanting more than one jacket from more than one maker, you simply can't go wrong with Steele & Jones.

It had been a few years since I ordered a jacket, but decided to give the nod to BK in weathered lamb. It was about $500, and received it around the new year. I could not be more pleased with the jacket. Usually, the euphoria wears off and you either live with the flaws or decide to sell it, but it has been the opposite with this jacket.