Club Obi Wan

I know that the back flap tends to flair out and this is a problem that most guys here have to deal with. I also hear that the movie makers sewn some kind of elastic bands inside to prevent this.

This is from the film:



And this is the problem I am having (using Holt's pic as reference):



My question is has anyone hear attempted to sew in any of these elastic bands, did it work and what advice do you have?

Thanks!

These have been standard in historic jackets for decades, particularly popular with Navy flight jackets during WW2.

You'll find them standard in G&B Expeditions, as well as USW's jackets and have always been there. Wested usually does not, but I believe Wested will add them if asked. You might be able to have them added by Wested as it shouldn't be too big a problem.

Keep in mind, the original Raiders jackets were originally made as costume jackets. They were NEVER an 'off the shelf' creation at the time, and were NEVER meant to reflect 'real life' per se, so those bands were never included in that design. They were intended to be worn, then tossed.

Here's an old post from November 2013 with that added information about what Wested does and does not do regarding the strap:

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... ps#p836006" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I locked the old topic so new posts are not added to that 3 year old thread, causing that information to be lost in the shuffle.

Regards! Michaelson

The Belstaff Indy jacket has these also

Ditto Nowak CS

Peter at Wested might be able to have this done for you by request.

My G&B Expo has the elastic straps, but I've had a couple of USW Legends and they did not.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Interesting, Jeff. With the exception of my cloth USW, all mine have, and do.

Regard! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:Interesting, Jeff. With the exception of my cloth USW, all mine have, and do.

Regard! Michaelson

From what I gather on the older post it seemed that a lot of the recommendations were to just 'break the leather in' to eliminate that "flying squirrel" look. Since you guys have the straps, are they worth the effort to have them added to a jacket you already have IYHO?

They are worth the effort, yes. There's nothing to break in when they're installed.

Regard! M

I stand corrected, I double checked my Roo Legend and there is a band.


If you are thinking of getting a band installed, check with Arrow Fabricare. They have a great reputation and did a bang-up job on a jacket for my Bride at a very reasonable cost. Installing the bands shouldn't be that big of a job so I'm sure they would give a fair price.



Regards,

Indiana Jeff

All my Westeds had the elastic band, both OTR and custom. I actually installed 2 additional bands in my last one. From memory I unpicked the stitching on the liner at the bottom of the back panel to allow access, stitched in two additional tighter bands down the length of the back and slip stitched the liner back to the leather. Job done and the pleats looked better. Any competent alteration shop should be able to do it.

Another way to get into the lining on a Wested is to turn the jacket inside out and examine the seams on the sleeves, one of them is stitched on the outside, this is where it was originally open, jackets are constructed inside out.

hovitos loincloth wrote:All my Westeds had the elastic band, both OTR and custom. I actually installed 2 additional bands in my last one. From memory I unpicked the stitching on the liner at the bottom of the back panel to allow access, stitched in two additional tighter bands down the length of the back and slip stitched the liner back to the leather. Job done and the pleats looked better. Any competent alteration shop should be able to do it.

Do they go vertical underneath the shoulder blades and connect to each other? When you say down the length of the back that sounds horizontal and I am wondering how that works.

Michaelson wrote:They are worth the effort, yes. There's nothing to break in when they're installed.

Regard! M

That's what i wanted to hear! Mucho appreciated!

Does the BK Relic Hunter have these?

Ride Guy

No.

As an accurate Raider's repro, they shouldn't. Maybe Bill Kelso Mfg can do them by request?

That's the question you need to answer yourself....do you want a screen accurate jacket, or a functional jacket.

You can get either, but.....choose wisely.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:That's the question you need to answer yourself....do you want a screen accurate jacket, or a functional jacket.

You can get either, but.....choose wisely.

Regards! Michaelson

See this is the killer lol!

Ok, I get the screen accuracy obviously, but what are the functionality aspects that I am sacrificing to get that accuracy?

Is the jacket going to be uncomfortable just to have a look that no one outside this forum would even notice? Or is it nothing substantial?

I did not like the band on my G&B; I felt like it was always rubbing against my back, reminding me that it existed. I ended up returning the G&B and getting my Kelso for the same price.

chenricy wrote:
See this is the killer lol!

Ok, I get the screen accuracy obviously, but what are the functionality aspects that I am sacrificing to get that accuracy?

Is the jacket going to be uncomfortable just to have a look that no one outside this forum would even notice? Or is it nothing substantial

It's horizontal across the back, I have one on my first jacket, that's about 10 years old. It's not intrusive, to be honest I didn't realise it was there till a couple of years after I got it! I put it over a barstool seat (like you sometimes do) and noticed the band, and went: Ah ok!

The function of the strap is to keep the action pleats closed when your arms are at your side. You're sacrificing nothing at all!

As you asked about in your very first post, the pleats tend to 'blow out' (to use another oft used phrase here) when you wear a jacket without one, and stay in that position when not in use, as seen in your last photo. These pleats tend to also catch on things when open too.

They serve the very useful function in keeping the pleats pulled closed, but allow them to function as designed when you're moving around.

A truly useful item in the design, and like I said, one incorporated by the military YEARS ago for the very same reason described above....to keep the pleats closed and out of the way when not in use.

As with KT, I had no clue my G&B even had them until one day I was applying Pecards to my jacket and felt it through the lining. I started doing the research, and discovered the history of the strap, as well as the fact all makers who produce mil-spec jackets already PUT these in the jackets as standard design.....and like KT, I did a

As has been said by others, you can live quite well without them and go on, but you asked the question 'how', and that's the answer.



Regard! Michaelson

I occasionally feel the band while wearing my G&B, but not to discomfort nor distraction.

I never noticed the band in my USW which is why I erroneously thought it wasn't there at all.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I like the pleats to blow out on the Raiders jacket. One of the things that is so endearing about the design is it is less tailored and takes on a lot of different character throughout... Sometimes it's pulled up close to the neck and looks short, sometimes in looks droopy in the shoulders because the collar opening is loose, sometimes it drapes, sometimes it billows in the wind. Admittedly some of it has to do with the different jackets used during filming, but that's the look I like... Not military tailored.

I think the straps work better in the LC or CS jacket as those jackets behaved themselves on screen more. My overall impression of the TOD jacket is of a poor, beaten down, ready for the dumpster jacket (but I still like it).

All that said, I think of straps like a refit of a starship, a classic design made a bit tighter for functional reasons... but I like the original better.

Michaelson wrote:The function of the strap is to keep the action pleats closed when your arms are at your side. You're sacrificing nothing at all!

As you asked about in your very first post, the pleats tend to 'blow out' (to use another oft used phrase here) when you wear a jacket without one, and stay in that position when not in use, as seen in your last photo. These pleats tend to also catch on things when open too.

They serve the very useful function in keeping the pleats pulled closed, but allow them to function as designed when you're moving around.

A truly useful item in the design, and like I said, one incorporated by the military YEARS ago for the very same reason described above....to keep the pleats closed and out of the way when not in use.

As with KT, I had no clue my G&B even had them until one day I was applying Pecards to my jacket and felt it through the lining. I started doing the research, and discovered the history of the strap, as well as the fact all makers who produce mil-spec jackets already PUT these in the jackets as standard design.....and like KT, I did a

As has been said by others, you can live quite well without them and go on, but you asked the question 'how', and that's the answer.



Regard! Michaelson

You always make the most sense, thank you my friend.

I will have to see if I can find anyone reputable enough that I trust my jacket to!

chenricy wrote:

hovitos loincloth wrote:All my Westeds had the elastic band, both OTR and custom. I actually installed 2 additional bands in my last one. From memory I unpicked the stitching on the liner at the bottom of the back panel to allow access, stitched in two additional tighter bands down the length of the back and slip stitched the liner back to the leather. Job done and the pleats looked better. Any competent alteration shop should be able to do it.

Do they go vertical underneath the shoulder blades and connect to each other? When you say down the length of the back that sounds horizontal and I am wondering how that works.

Horizontal from pleat to pleat. The one across the shoulder blades wasn't doing enough to close the pleat properly to my satisfaction.

Think I discovered something in the Indy "bible" (the complete making of Indiana Jones coffee table book). On page 79 there is a pic of the Raven fight and I could swear I see the bands through the back of the jacket.

Tried to take a pic but doesn't come out good enough so I'll have to scan it at work but if anyone has the book I think they will see what I am talking about.

It might be. I'm looking at my copy and I can see the two tell tale horizontal lines you're referring to. That's the right location for them to be.

Regards! Michaelson

I'll have to check my copy of the book. I tried looking at the screen caps on http://movie-screencaps.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and man is that scene dark. You can't see anything in those.



Regards,

Indiana Jeff

You can definitely see the lines in the photo mentioned in the book.

Regard! M

Michaelson wrote:You can definitely see the lines in the photo mentioned in the book.

Regard! M

Wasn't sure if it was one or two so I'm glad you guys see it too.

Definitely helps!

You can't actually see the band itself here, it seems about an inch wide, but you can see the effect it can eventually have on the leather in the pleat.

Wow that's awesome, thank you for the pics. How long have you had that?

Here's a scan and crop of the picture from the Complete Making book. I don't see any indication of the elastic band, either across Indy's back nor in the way the pleats are stretched.




Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Seriously, Jeff?

I can plainly see the line across the back exactly mid way down, approx. 7 or 8 inches above the side strap. You can even see a slight 'hump' where it pushes the leather outward at the middle crease. That's one of them. The other is more subtle, higher up, and can't be seen in your scan. I can see it in the actual photo in my book, though.

That strap is in the exact same location as the lower strap in my USW and G&B jackets.

Regard! Michaelson

I see marks you mean, I'm not convinced they are due to an elastic strap. Looks like the effect of wrinkles, distressing and lights/shadows. Especially since Indy's jacket flairs throughout the movie.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Indiana Jeff wrote:Here's a scan and crop of the picture from the Complete Making book. I don't see any indication of the elastic band, either across Indy's back nor in the way the pleats are stretched.




Regards,

Indiana Jeff

THAT'S IT!

Indiana Jeff wrote:I see marks you mean, I'm not convinced they are due to an elastic strap. Looks like the effect of wrinkles, distressing and lights/shadows. Especially since Indy's jacket flairs throughout the movie.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree this time, Jeff. I find it AWFULLY coincidental those 'lines' are located in the exact same place as straps located in both USW's and Expeditions. I see a strap. I can even see a shadow where the strap is in the middle of the back where the jacket is pushed outward by the strap, not inward as would be seen with a wrinkle. There has to be something physically located under the hide in order to make such a straight shadow line on a smooth surface in that area. You can also see high lights from distressing where that area is higher on the hide than above or below it close to the seam starting on the left hand side above the side strap all the way across the back at that angle.

Just say'n

Regard! M

chenricy wrote:Wow that's awesome, thank you for the pics. How long have you had that?

No problem, it's now 11 years since I stared out on this addiction....

I'm with Jeff on this one... I see the marks you're describing but the jacket doesn't behave like it has straps. My own theory is that the back panel was of a somewhat thicker piece of hide and the side panels were of quite thin pieces and that seems to have more impact on how the jacket behaves.

Michaelson wrote:
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree this time, Jeff.

Regard! M

And I'm pretty sure his fedora is grey.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

He's wearing black socks and jockey shorts too........

You see a strap........listen to my voice.....ignore that Jeff guy.....you see a strap.....

Hmm, weird. The more I look, maybe, just maybe...


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Michaelson wrote:

Indiana Jeff wrote:I see marks you mean, I'm not convinced they are due to an elastic strap. Looks like the effect of wrinkles, distressing and lights/shadows. Especially since Indy's jacket flairs throughout the movie.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree this time, Jeff. I find it AWFULLY coincidental those 'lines' are located in the exact same place as straps located in both USW's and Expeditions. I see a strap. I can even see a shadow where the strap is in the middle of the back where the jacket is pushed outward by the strap, not inward as would be seen with a wrinkle. There has to be something physically located under the hide in order to make such a straight shadow line on a smooth surface in that area. You can also see high lights from distressing where that area is higher on the hide than above or below it close to the seam starting on the left hand side above the side strap all the way across the back at that angle.

Just say'n

Regard! M

I think it's the two light-colored bumps on the right side that goes against the folds that (to me) clearly shows something underneath the leather. It even seems like there is a pinch on the left side near the middle that would coincide with the location of the 'strap' just like Templar's pic.

I added the Elastic straps to my Hero Wested. Here is what it looks like turned inside out with the first strap
almost done. I used vice grips to hold the band in place while I stitched them between the
the gap where the over lap of the seams met.


once finished the vents no longer blow out.

jim

...and there you go.

Regard! Michaelson

wow...great job there!

oh my god that looks beautiful dude!