Club Obi Wan

I don’t post often, and when I do, it’s usually to ask for your collective opinions, but I thought I’d share a customer service experience I recently had with two vendors in the IJ gear business.

In February, I reached a milestone birthday and my lovely wife surprised me with a “coupon” for an Indy jacket. I immediately started looking at all the options and settled on a Wested custom LC. I emailed Wested all excited (even revealing that this was a b-day gift and a big deal for me). I asked about the differences between a few hides and sizing. I specifically mentioned that I was a member of COW and was interested in the heavy-duty lambskin and copper novapelle hides based on fellow COW members’ reviews for an LC jacket. I also asked how their sizing compares to standard off-the-shelf sizes. Wested recommended the heavy-duty lambskin, and attached a measurement guide. Short and to the point. Fine--the tone of the email didn’t match my enthusiasm, but whatever.

The same day, I asked a follow-up question on the best hide choices for an LC jacket. Wested noted, “[a]s a general rule I would not look too closely into COW as despite the reviews being very helpful they often get our skin names wrong and then in turn the customer order ends up being wrong.” They added that the heavy-duty lambskin, which they had just recommended that same day, was out-of-stock. What’s more, despite asking for other hide recommendations, they offered none. Enter minor frustration.

Hide choice TBD, I followed Wested’s sizing chart/measurement guide (I usually wear off-the-shelf size "L" and really only wanted to lengthen the back of the jacket), but my measurement weren't matching the standard measurements for Wested's size 44 , which I thought was their size "L". So, I asked how their sizing works (specifically, “Can you tell me more about how your sizing works? For example, is your size 44 the equivalent of a size Large?”). I told Wested that I was concerned I wasn’t getting my back and arm measurements correct. Wested’s curt reply was this: “I’m afraid your questions aren’t really making much sense,” the back, sleeve, and pit-to-pit measurements are “up to you,” and “we can’t really help in detail with measurements as we can’t see you to take them.” While I don’t’ think my questions were confusing, even if they were, Wested made absolutely no attempt to ask clarifying questions of what I was asking or offer any further guidance whatsoever.

I replied to Wested and asked them if they wanted my business, and I attempted to simplify my questions in bullet format. They confirmed they wanted my business and answered my questions, but immediately attempted to minimize by claiming the ordering process is as frustrating for them as it is for me and then justified their email communication on a poor staffing situation. With no real offer to start anew or help me get my order right, Wested did note that they would understand if I took my business elsewhere. Considering the experience thus far and the risk of loosing 25% to return a ill-fitting custom jacket, I decided not to take the risk and went to US Wings.

My experience with US Wings was outstanding. While they do not have the same range of options as Wested, they have spectacular jackets that are beautifully crafted. I immediately honed in on the Signature Series Adventurer jacket in Striated Lambskin. I sent an email about sizing, and received a quick reply. Wary of my earlier experience with Wested, I followed up with a phone call. By email and phone, the US Wings reps were informative and pleasant…basically, a model of good customer service. I ordered the Signature Series in Size “L” based on their recommendations. I received it in Germany to an APO address in 9 days—free shipping. The jacket is a thing of beauty--the skin is super thick for lamb. However, there was a problem…the jacket didn’t fit me very precisely. It was slightly larger than a large usually fits me in the chest area and sleeves. The size “L” fit, but at the same time, it didn’t. I can really only describe it like this: I felt like I was 16 and wearing my dad’s jacket.

I scoured the US Wings website for another option, gave US Wings another call and sent two more emails searching for options. The staff was always patient, pleasant to talk to, and informative. The US Wings rep even recognized my voice from our conversation 10 days prior. After discussing options, I decided to try a size “M” in the Signature Series; I also ordered a size “L” in Legend the 30th Anniversary Featherweight Antique Lambskin to compare cuts. US Wings extended their return time and let me hold on to the Signature size “L” to compare.

As before, the jackets arrived in 9 days to Germany. The size “M” Signature series fit me perfectly. SA notwithstanding, to me it was the LC/CS jacket I always wanted, and it felt great on. I tried on the Legend, and it too felt great…totally different, but great. What to do? I modeled them for my wife…she liked the Legend better, due to it being more tailored and shorter. But I was leaning towards the Signature Series. Then she said, referring to the Legend jacket, “It looks more Indiana Jones.” That did it for me. I kept both. I think I “chose wisely.”

Also, a big thanks to Michaelson, “knower of things,” who was a great help on the different US Wings options.

Cheers,
ijq8

Always happy to help when I can!

Regard! Michaelson

Awesome review! Thanks for sharing

We need pics, BTW

Nice review! How are the armholes on the US Wings? Are they smaller or really large? I had a jacket from them where the armholes were too big, but I've heard they've changed the pattern since then. And yes, please post pics!!

ijq8,

FWIW, your experience with Wested wasn't unique. They apparently have enough business to absorb the negative feedback.

All that said, glad you found satisfaction.

I have had similar - no, almost identical - experiences with US Wings! Between that and the quality of their stuff, it's hard to go wrong. Glad you found something that worked.

Sounds like you found a couple of winners.

A wife that gets you Indy Gear for your birthday and a nice jacket.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Congrats! It's awfully hard to go wrong with a USW!

I have quite a few from both companies. Being very tall, sometimes the Wings jackets are slightly longer in the body for the tall sizes they recommend. Many of their 3xl fits like a 2xl for me. I made the mistake of buying a signature series which was way big everywhere. I stick with their Legend jackets now in a 2xl tall or 3xl regular. Wested jackets fit well in a size 48 or 50 for me off the rack. I usually get a 50 as I like my jackets slightly less form fitting.

As far as customer service, both have been very good except for a couple short and curt e-mails from Wested but it was not the usual person I deal with.

I do like the free APO shipping from USW as well.

Here are a few pics (unfortunately, photos don't do them justice). The second and third pics represent the colors the best.




This is measuring 26.5 inches from bottom of collar to bottom of jacket.







This is the Legend size L on top of the Signature Series size M. I tried to match the top of the collars and shoulders as best as possible. You can definitely see the Signature is longer by about 1.5 inches (Legend size L measures 25" exactly from bottom of collar to bottom of jacket). Also, the arm holes on the Signature are 12" (from the outside front, lying flat, pit to shoulder).

The Signature is definitely sized larger than normal. I'm 6', 190-ish lbs, have a 43" chest in a t-shirt, and wear a 42R in a suit coat. This is a size M and it fits me like other off the shelf size L's--it's roomy in the chest for a sweater but not too much that I can't wear with just a shirt. The Legend, on the other hand, I feel like I could wear with a shirt or if needed a tighter fitted, shorter sweater--otherwise a sweater would stick out below the jacket too much.

I can't wait until it breaks in..naturally of course--you die-hards that put sand paper to these beauties are nuts! .

One thing I HIGHLY recommend is that you replace the square side strap buckles with either another set of D-rings, or a set of rings as used on the Wested or G&B jackets.

If you're not careful, you can actually punch holes in car seats and furniture with the sharp corners of those buckles. I have the proof in my driver side car seat.

Just a 'word to the wise'.

Regard! Micahelson

Agreed, there, M...had the car seat tear happen to me. Definitely replace the pilgrim buckle with some D-rings.

Great looking jackets!

I'll never know why people keep going to Wested. I ordered about half a dozen jackets from them early on in my collecting (from '06 to '08), and the experience was almost always the same. Short, curt emails that usually only addressed half of what I asked, and the jackets I recieved would also only have half of the extras that I asked and paid extra for. Always a discouraging experience that left me frustrated, and reading through reviews before and since, I'm not the only one, and neither are you.

I guess you get what you pay for, but if you're spending hundreds of dollars on a jacket, followed by months of anticipation for said jacket, the disappointment is going to sting that much harder. That's not even getting to issues of quality control, such as the recent case of Wested stating they were not responsible for leather variations when they used two different textured leathers for panels on the same jacket... I mean, are you kidding me? Yes, it's an organic material and slight variations can and do exist, but on something that severe? That just screams oversight.

Unless you're simply cutting costs and passing the buck to the customer... Which they clearly are. Even the wording on their emails shows a contempt for their customer base, so why would anyone give money to a company that has no respect for you?

I'm glad that you got out when you did, rather than following in my shoes, and getting burned repeatedly until deciding to boycott the company. I just feel bad for newer collectors that don't have the luxury of a Nowak, and instead we're back to the dark ages of collecting where Wested is king.

Good to hear US Wings is working out for you though!

Man. All this makes me want to just get a second Todd's. S & J looks pretty darned good, though, and have been seeing nothing but good things from them. Diego even emailed ME once when I expressed interest on COW. I'm thinking if/when I have the pesos, I'm getting in touch with them. I was just having a conversation with a close friend the other day about how awful customer service is in general these days. It's sad when even decent customer service comes across as incredible only because so many businesses have set the bar so low. Great to hear that USW are so professional. Word of mouth like this, especially online, goes a LONG way.

I passed the word to David Hack about your satisfaction with your experience with USW.

Here's his response:

Everyone that works with US Wings has always had a say about making decisions on how the business is run! Meaning when someone calls and ask to speak to a manager everyone here has the same answer.. You are speaking to the Manager !
Thank Indy Gear for the very kind words.. Means a lot to all of us here.
Regards,
Sarge

Regard! Michaelson

Just want to say I'm having a #### of a time finding the right jacket to complete my indy ensemble. All this helps, I had a disappointing experience with Wested but I won't condemned them for it. It's the shipping and handling fees that ruined it for me.

Michaelson wrote:I passed the word to David Hack about your satisfaction with your experience with USW.

Here's his response:

Everyone that works with US Wings has always had a say about making decisions on how the business is run! Meaning when someone calls and ask to speak to a manager everyone here has the same answer.. You are speaking to the Manager !
Thank Indy Gear for the very kind words.. Means a lot to all of us here.
Regards,
Sarge

Regard! Michaelson

Thanks, Michaelson. I also uploaded a review on USW's website...pending approval apparently.

Michaelson wrote:One thing I HIGHLY recommend is that you replace the square side strap buckles with either another set of D-rings, or a set of rings as used on the Wested or G&B jackets.

If you're not careful, you can actually punch holes in car seats and furniture with the sharp corners of those buckles. I have the proof in my driver side car seat.

Just a 'word to the wise'.

Regard! Micahelson

Anyone try to file the edges?

Nope. I just switched them out with the other buckles, which I like better anyway.

Regards! M

I had somewhat similar experiences with Wested and US Wings. I wore the Wested for years but it never was really right even after sending it back for alteration. And I also found the US Wings Legend to run big. I got one of those in distressed cowhide some years ago when he offered them at an introductory price. I think I tried a large, medium and small before settling on the small. Now I'm not 'small' although I'm also not tall. I'm 5-8, wear a 44 suit coat and weigh about 190. And the Small was the best fit...figure that one out. But after getting it I realized I had my last Indy jacket. The cowhide is thick and heavy but soft and buttery, and it naturally distresses. The satin lining helps to get the coat on and off and produces a natural drape. I ended up giving the Wested to my son who is 6-0 and weighs about 170. I could not believe it when he slipped it on - perfection. Wested does make an incredible coat but good luck getting it right by email. Then shipping it back and forth to England is not cheap. Mine was lambskin which is soft and lightweight but also a little fragile. Getting the cowhide made me think I could actually slide down a stony desert road behind a Mercedes army truck.

I've owned a 1/2 dozen Indy jackets since I arrived at this site, from several makers including Wested, Wings, and G&B. The only two I have left are USW Legends, one imported Texas Steer, one American Bison. Both are excellent, though different. Sarge is always great to deal with, he comes out to the show room to chat when you visit the store. I have it easy for sizing, I wear the same size as Sarge, so I just call and ask him what he wears, it's worked every time.

B

Havent been through here in a while, but its a bummer to see that Wested STILL hasnt sorted out their customer service and sizing issues. I imagine though it can be hard, due to the extreme volume of business they do. Perhaps a knowledgeable, patient, and dedicated customer service rep would solve the problem once and for all. Great review!

I've had good experiences with Wested, and have talked to Peter and Gemma a few times and all went well for me. They rebuilt my first Raiders jacket I bought from them back in 1997, and it's now a better jacket than when it was new. Sorry to here you had the experience you had with them.

That said, I'm not at all surprised to hear about your experience with US Wings. They are top notch, all the way. They seem to have a way of treating every customer as if they are their only customer. They aren't in the customization game, but they deliver an awesome Indy jacket!

Thanks for showing the Signature Series along side the Legend. It really shows the difference in the pattern. I'd like to do the same kind of thing, with a size L Legend and size L Signature Series. You have some very nice jackets there man, enjoy!

Weston

I have three Jackets from Wested. One was custom, the others standard sizes. I only ever had one service issuse that was dealt with very quickly. Otherwise all good. They recently relined my custom 10 year old HH LC with moleskin and did a great job. I am a happy customer but then I did not bombard them with special requests and most OTR sizes fir me well.

IndyBrit wrote: I am a happy customer but then I did not bombard them with special requests and most OTR sizes fir me well.

Really glad to hear that you've had good experiences. I generally fit into OTR sizes as well, and couldn't even get Wested to quote OTR measurements for my size to proceed with a purchase. I had zero other requests. I'm tellin' ya, you can't make this stuff up.

The only way I'd buy from Wested is if I actually went there in person and could either find a jacket otr that fit me well enough or I could give them explicit specs face to face on how I wanted a custom designed. That said, I have a US Wings jacket and after wearing it for a couple years now I could never imagine wearing anything else. Those jackets are beautiful btw.

Michaelson wrote:I passed the word to David Hack about your satisfaction with your experience with USW.

Here's his response:

Everyone that works with US Wings has always had a say about making decisions on how the business is run! Meaning when someone calls and ask to speak to a manager everyone here has the same answer.. You are speaking to the Manager !
Thank Indy Gear for the very kind words.. Means a lot to all of us here.
Regards,
Sarge

Regard! Michaelson

Thanks to Michaelson, I went directly to US Wings for my one and only Indy jacket a few years ago, and had a good experience ordering from them. Helpful e-mail responses, good price ($195 at the time) and prompt shipping.

One problem I did have with US Wings was waiting for a return. I wasn't sure if I should get a lg or xl for one of the Indy jackets so the plan was to order both and return which one that did not fit the best. The jackets were beautiful but too heavy for someone who lives in S. FLA so I returned them both. That was the end of Feb. and I STILL have not received my refund yet. I received one email saying they received my jacket on the 12th and refunds usually take up to 2 weeks to show. After emailing again I received an email today apologizing for the delay and I should see the refund within the next 7 days.

This did not sour my experience with the company, I would still recommend them to anyone that was looking for a great jacket. I work with customers and computers and fully know these things happen from time to time so no biggie, but if you want to go the route I did with two jackets make sure you give yourself plenty of time to get the refund back just in case!