Club Obi Wan

I had a interesting thought last night. In Raiders during the truck race at the end to get the Ark, Indy gets shot in right the arm by a Nazi. It obviously then would have put a hole/tear in the right arm of his jacket. So, for continuity, shouldn't Indy's jacket in Last Crusade have a hole too since its the sequel to Raiders, Temple being a prequel? And then also by Crystal Skull?

My only possible explanation I could come up with is there is a pretty big difference in his jackets appearance between Raiders and Last Crusade, so MAYBE he got a different jacket in a different hyde between those two periods and scrapped his old jacket.

What do you all think? Has this ever come up?


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1BAT4U wrote:I had a interesting thought last night. In Raiders during the truck race at the end to get the Ark, Indy gets shot in right the arm by a Nazi. It obviously then would have put a hole/tear in the right arm of his jacket. So, for continuity, shouldn't Indy's jacket in Last Crusade have a hole too since its the sequel to Raiders, Temple being a prequel? And then also by Crystal Skull?

My only possible explanation I could come up with is there is a pretty big difference in his jackets appearance between Raiders and Last Crusade, so MAYBE he got a different jacket in a different hyde between those two periods and scrapped his old jacket.

What do you all think? Has this ever come up?


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It's been thrown around before.

My take is that Indy obviously has to change out his clothes.... the theory that the hat is the same hat from when he was 15 is ridiculous to me.

If Indy puts that much wear and tear on his clothes than he would be replacing them frequently. I mean, after Raiders, his jacket had been drug under a truck, shot through, blood probably all over it on top of everything else he'd been through. And that was just ONE adventure, and he tends to do these things a lot.... So, his professor salary must be pretty large, or maybe he tax deducts the cost since it's for "work", hahaha
and from a gearhead point of view it explains the differences between his shirts, pants, whips, hats, etc throughout all the films.

jmo

Haha, all true! Good points! I can deal with that explanation

Thanks for the input

Indy loses his gear a lot in Raiders... And he has very little with him at the end when he boards the Nazi submarine.

Whip #1 - taken by Belloq outside Indian temple
Whip #2 - either destroyed under the truck (dirt road and all), left on the Bantu Wind, or destroyed by sea water after using it to lash himself to the periscope.

Revolver #1 - taken by Belloq outside Indian temple.
Revolver #2 - whereabouts unknown but likely left aboard Bantu Wind or taken by Nazis after capture.

Semiauto Pistol - whereabouts unknown but likely left aboard Bantu Wind or taken by Nazis after capture.

Shoulder Bag - whereabouts unknown but likely left aboard Bantu Wind.

Jacket - whereabouts unknown but likely left aboard Bantu Wind.

Fedora - whereabouts unknown but likely left aboard Bantu Wind.

I suppose Captain Katanga could have returned anything left aboard to Indy via Sallah, but I think it's far more likely he would just replace items from time to time as they wear out. And this nicely accounts for differences in gear amongst all the movies - it would be hard to get the EXACT same gear year after year.

I mean, he clearly replaces his one-sleeved shirt at the end of ToD, so naturally he shops a particular style but is still subject to product upgrades and market availability like the rest of us.

JohnnyD97 wrote:Indy loses his gear a lot in Raiders... And he has very little with him at the end when he boards the Nazi submarine.

Whip #1 - taken by Belloq outside Indian temple
Whip #2 - either destroyed under the truck (dirt road and all), left on the Bantu Wind, or destroyed by sea water after using it to lash himself to the periscope.

Revolver #1 - taken by Belloq outside Indian temple.
Revolver #2 - whereabouts unknown but likely left aboard Bantu Wind or taken by Nazis after capture.

Semiauto Pistol - whereabouts unknown but likely left aboard Bantu Wind or taken by Nazis after capture.

Shoulder Bag - whereabouts unknown but likely left aboard Bantu Wind.

Jacket - whereabouts unknown but likely left aboard Bantu Wind.

Fedora - whereabouts unknown but likely left aboard Bantu Wind.

I suppose Captain Katanga could have returned anything left aboard to Indy via Sallah, but I think it's far more likely he would just replace items from time to time as they wear out. And this nicely accounts for differences in gear amongst all the movies - it would be hard to get the EXACT same gear year after year.

I mean, he clearly replaces his one-sleeved shirt at the end of ToD, so naturally he shops a particular style but is still subject to product upgrades and market availability like the rest of us.

All good points too! I would have to assume he DOES get his gear back from the Bantu Wind at some point since he's obviously wearing the same, weathered, fedora as in the the first half of the movie. But for the other scenes in question, makes sense that he would be replacing gear a LOT. Or maybe just has a couple of the same shirts and pants in his closet to pull from.

As pointed out, TOD is a prequel and his shirt is completely destroyed and his trousers have a huge hole in the knee. None of this damage is there at the beginning of ROLA.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I thought he was shot in his left shoulder.

I always thought he was wearing a grey fedora at the end:



But that doesn't confirm or deny if Captain Katagna sent him his stuff or not.

JohnnyD97 wrote:I always thought he was wearing a grey fedora at the end:



But that doesn't confirm or deny if Captain Katagna sent him his stuff or not.

Oh thats right. He's hatless in seattle after the Ark melts all the Nazi's. I forgot

Ya maybe it was his left side. This was just a thought from memory, haven't watched Raiders in a while

Hatless in Seattle? Was that the movie Harrison Ford starred in with Meg Ryan?

JohnnyD97 wrote:Hatless in Seattle? Was that the movie Harrison Ford starred in with Meg Ryan?

That's the one!

I like to think he never recovers his hat and jacket, and replaces them with similar gear. I like to think his ToD and Raiders gear are the same (he tightened the pinch on his fedora between movies ), and his LC/KotCS gear is the same. Actually, I don't care of the KoTCS jacket is the same as his LC jacket, but stylistically it kinda makes sense.

Just my $0.02...
I agree with what everyone is saying about Indy having to change out his clothes. It makes sense
The reason being is because we all saw how worn out his clothes were in Raiders, and another point which is what a member said above, is Indy's clothes were torn to heck in ToD, so most likely he had to change out clothes.
Also he did lose his stuff at the ship which is another point.

Well . . . there ARE some slightly odd individuals who find something they like and stockpile multiples so if something happens to one they have a spare. I did that starting when the real Banana Republic was around because I hated losing things I liked to wear and tear.

Not that I'm suggesting having 5 or 6 identical Penman fedoras, 3 identical Adventurebilts, a Garrison, several Akubras, a bunch of similar looking leather jackets and other stuff like multiples of the same ballpoint pen, the same fountain pen, the same belt, the same pocketknife, the same shirts, the same shoes, the same boots, and other things is odd, mind you, but there it is . . . .

Jeez - to import logic into a comic book is never going to end well. If you have to try to explain it just imagine Indy buying and replacing his stuff at an imaginary version of Sears. Plenty more jackets hanging up in that place.

For my money I would have preferred the character to wear a totally different costume in the last film, based on an A2 perhaps but in the end Indy is not much different to Batman - he has his superhero gear and it is tweaked but not changed in sequels.

I just figure he gets everything from Reuben Kittlemeier, just like everyone else...

Yeah. It seems like the hint the movies give is that he gets his stuff from some sort of army surplus, all except for his hat. His jacket is basically a movie version of an A-2, his pants are a custom version of army pinks, his shirt an army/safari shirt, the web belt, the satchel... etc. Just he has some style, and adds a nice Fedora, solid pair of boots and a leather strap to his bag.

So I guess when you think of it that way, he'd have no hard time (in the fictional world) of replacing ANY of his gear, except maybe the same exact Fedora each time his gets destroyed.

Anyway, fun discussion regardless!

I do believe Dr Jones had access to clothing stores to acquire new items.

They had stores in the 30s. Right Michaelson?

Now I've done it. Im gonna get fired.


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Yep, and they sold replacement clothing clear through the Depression too!

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:Yep, and they sold replacement clothing clear through the Depression too!

Regards! Michaelson

Now you're just making up stories...

You know you're getting old when someone of 20 asks you what it was like in the 1960's during the depression...

Yeah, and you know they're actually asking about the Great Recession.

Regard! M

I tend to think Dr. Jones just replaced his worn out or lost items. It was not like he was destitute and no source of income.

Michaelson wrote:Yeah, and you know they're actually asking about the Great Recession.

Regard! M

Yeah, we were all born "last century" or in the 1900's as my kids like to tell me...(When did 1984 become vintage?)

I don't know how my brain wraps around it but I always just went with the original premise of the film being in the tradition of the 30's serials.....I just assume he is always wearing the same outfit..... And we, As the audience, just don't pay attention to that. The awesome hero just appears and looks like we know and love him... his sillouhett is instantly recognizable and always will be.
When I start to try to get logical about it, I get frustrated with why the look changed as I LOVE the Raiders fedora look. It was so common yet so individual looking.
But I just think, there's our hero....ripped his pants in the last scene? When? I just know he kicked some rear and is still going strong.

Also, not hard to imagine him going to his tailor and saying, make a couple pairs of trousers like these. Even the jacket isn't too hard to replicate (if you don't mind a wee bit of variation along the way)

I'm right with Gorak on the Raiders hat, though. My favorite by far as the rest look pretty much off the peg.

Tibor wrote:Also, not hard to imagine him going to his tailor and saying, make a couple pairs of trousers like these...........

From a gearhead point of view this is always what I imagined. His clothes are all obviously military inspired but they aren't actually military issue. He has purposefully had all his clothes tailor made a certain way for at least 30 years or more.

It sounds far fetched for a guy like Indy until you add to that, Indy took his entire look from "Fedora" in LC 1914. He saw a look he wanted, and purposefully set out to acquire that look. The along his travels he found a taste for military styled clothing, and melded the two looks together.

That's just how I justify the differences in all his clothes over the years. and makes sense from a "realistic" standpoint. Maybe not from a monetary stands points, haha.

I bet if he had to pay the prices we do, he'd be in much more common gear!!!

backstagejack wrote:

Tibor wrote:Also, not hard to imagine him going to his tailor and saying, make a couple pairs of trousers like these...........

From a gearhead point of view this is always what I imagined. His clothes are all obviously military inspired but they aren't actually military issue. He has purposefully had all his clothes tailor made a certain way for at least 30 years or more.

It sounds far fetched for a guy like Indy until you add to that, Indy took his entire look from "Fedora" in LC 1914. He saw a look he wanted, and purposefully set out to acquire that look. The along his travels he found a taste for military styled clothing, and melded the two looks together.

That's just how I justify the differences in all his clothes over the years. and makes sense from a "realistic" standpoint. Maybe not from a monetary stands points, haha.

You see I can't imagine that. To me the Indy character as written is the ultimate pragmatist, an improvisor who wouldn't go to a tailor if he can get it off the rack. He's a thrifty no fuss guy and the Indy outfit is the kind of clothing working people wore in their thousands all over America at the time.

In the logic of movies Indy's jackets, pants, etc are meant to be the same ones - just as Connery, Moore, Dalton, Craig, et al and are meant to be the same guy.

CM wrote:

backstagejack wrote:

Tibor wrote:Also, not hard to imagine him going to his tailor and saying, make a couple pairs of trousers like these...........

From a gearhead point of view this is always what I imagined. His clothes are all obviously military inspired but they aren't actually military issue. He has purposefully had all his clothes tailor made a certain way for at least 30 years or more.

It sounds far fetched for a guy like Indy until you add to that, Indy took his entire look from "Fedora" in LC 1914. He saw a look he wanted, and purposefully set out to acquire that look. The along his travels he found a taste for military styled clothing, and melded the two looks together.

That's just how I justify the differences in all his clothes over the years. and makes sense from a "realistic" standpoint. Maybe not from a monetary stands points, haha.

You see I can't imagine that. To me the Indy character as written is the ultimate pragmatist, an improvisor who wouldn't go to a tailor if he can get it off the rack. He's a thrifty no fuss guy and the Indy outfit is the kind of clothing working people wore in their thousands all over America at the time.

In the logic of movies Indy's jackets, pants, etc are meant to be the same ones - just as Connery, Moore, Dalton, Craig, et al and are meant to be the same guy.

We see Indy like this as that's somewhat how he's portrayed.... but his clothes and the flashback scene of LC disagrees at least to me.
1. Indy purposefully attempted to emulate "Fedora" in his style of clothing. One might say he was a young impressionable boy, but according to YIJC he didn't even attempt to emulate Fedora until he was in his mid 20s at best. Sometime between YIJ Hollywood Follies to TOD, his adult self specifically tried to emulate Fedora but with a contemporary military feel.
2. His clothes are torn beyond repair in atleast two of the movies.
3. by CS, his clothes have the vibe of a costume and very much less lived in than previous installments. This is JMO of course.

Add to that the obvious differences to his clothing throughout all 4 movies and it makes sense to me.
I know it's way too much thought into something that was supposed to be as you said, one costume, the whole time.....

A guy traveling the world, wearing tuxes to clubs in Shanghai, picking up diamonds the size of ping pong balls, selling stuff to museums, is not your average, thrifty guy in the 1930s. I've known a few thrifty guys who lived through the 30s... No tuxes, diamonds, or international travel among them.

Just catching up on this thread and it looks like it has been fun.

I was avoiding it as I thought someone was going for screen accuracy and put a hole in a Wested.

I know, right... Then you'd have to stitch it up for other scenes where the repair is just barely visible. In general, shooting jackets should be discouraged.

We actually had a member from South America in years past who planned on trying to replicate this bullet hole for real in one of his Wested jackets.

Oddly enough, we never heard from him again.

Regard! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:We actually had a member from South America in years past who planned on trying to replicate this bullet hole for real in one of his Wested jackets.

Oddly enough, we never heard from him again.

Regard! Michaelson

As gun section mod: I officially discourage any of these ideas.


Plus it wasn't a through and through. Hard to replicate without magic bullets. My beanstalk guy used to have some but I haven't seen him in a while.

Believe me, we told him that in no uncertain terms, Chris.

Regards! M

As a guy who has a well deserved reputation for stockpiling spares of things I like I can assure you I do not replicate the damage one item has on all the others, and when they wear out, they get retired and the next one gets put in service to get its own dings and dents.

As far as 30s pragmatism goes, those guys were individuals too. Each one different from the next.

My dad pretty much doesn't care about what he wears as long as it's serviceable and fits his needs. His slightly older brother was very selective, wore the best he could afford, had expensive fishing tackle and other things and kept everything immaculate. An older friend of mine who was a couple of years older than my dad was a mix. Every day stuff he didn't care much about, but he had his collection of cashmere sweaters, his 1956 Thunderbird (bought new in 1956), McIntosh stereo equipment, custom made golf clubs, and yes . . . several Belle of Lincoln bottles from Jack Daniels.

backstagejack wrote:

CM wrote:

backstagejack wrote:

Tibor wrote:Also, not hard to imagine him going to his tailor and saying, make a couple pairs of trousers like these...........

From a gearhead point of view this is always what I imagined. His clothes are all obviously military inspired but they aren't actually military issue. He has purposefully had all his clothes tailor made a certain way for at least 30 years or more.

It sounds far fetched for a guy like Indy until you add to that, Indy took his entire look from "Fedora" in LC 1914. He saw a look he wanted, and purposefully set out to acquire that look. The along his travels he found a taste for military styled clothing, and melded the two looks together.

That's just how I justify the differences in all his clothes over the years. and makes sense from a "realistic" standpoint. Maybe not from a monetary stands points, haha.

You see I can't imagine that. To me the Indy character as written is the ultimate pragmatist, an improvisor who wouldn't go to a tailor if he can get it off the rack. He's a thrifty no fuss guy and the Indy outfit is the kind of clothing working people wore in their thousands all over America at the time.

In the logic of movies Indy's jackets, pants, etc are meant to be the same ones - just as Connery, Moore, Dalton, Craig, et al and are meant to be the same guy.

We see Indy like this as that's somewhat how he's portrayed.... but his clothes and the flashback scene of LC disagrees at least to me.
1. Indy purposefully attempted to emulate "Fedora" in his style of clothing. One might say he was a young impressionable boy, but according to YIJC he didn't even attempt to emulate Fedora until he was in his mid 20s at best. Sometime between YIJ Hollywood Follies to TOD, his adult self specifically tried to emulate Fedora but with a contemporary military feel.
2. His clothes are torn beyond repair in atleast two of the movies.
3. by CS, his clothes have the vibe of a costume and very much less lived in than previous installments. This is JMO of course.

Add to that the obvious differences to his clothing throughout all 4 movies and it makes sense to me.
I know it's way too much thought into something that was supposed to be as you said, one costume, the whole time.....

I understood all those points the first time - I just don't agree. As to his copying Fedora - Indy's dress is influenced by that character but there's no evidence in the film that he actually set out to copy the look. My take on this was simply Indy was influenced, perhaps unconsciously by that man. And you don't need a tailor to get a similar look - at that time in the early 20th century millions of men dressed like Indy (minus the whip).

CM wrote:

I understood all those points the first time - I just don't agree. As to his copying Fedora - Indy's dress is influenced by that character but there's no evidence in the film that he actually set out to copy the look. My take on this was simply Indy was influenced, perhaps unconsciously by that man. And you don't need a tailor to get a similar look - at that time in the early 20th century millions of men dressed like Indy (minus the whip).

Yeah but even in the early 20th century, finding the same style shirt, pants, and jacket style for over 20 years would be hard. Especially finding them all military inspired but not military made clothes. It's why I went with custom/tailor made. (again, I know it's just a movie..... but just for fun I'm trying to apply real world logistics to his clothing). Plus, I find it hard to believe he's had the same hat since he was 14.

Not to mention being clairvoyant enough to design a satchel that happened to look just like a WWII gas mask bag years before it was issued

For me it helps explain the differences. He gets back from Egypt - "Hey Bob, I need another leather jacket.... yeah same pattern but this time, can you add some snaps on the wind flap and make the pockets bigger?" or "Darker buttons on my shirts? Yeah, I like that idea."

Yup, me too. I think "Bob" the tailor explains it. There's no excuse for wearing the same reinforced shirt for 3 decades, or even the same bash in your hat. People were very style conscious and changed with the times.

Bob: "Really, Dr. Jones? Same exact look?"

Indy: "Yeah Bob, don't mess with it. It's worked well the way it is. Just make 4 more."

Bear in mind, the 'outfit' we're talking about is his field gear. Most folks I know (including me) have 'yard clothes' that you wear for function when working in an outside environment, not fashion, and we wear them year after year until they fall apart. 9 times out of 10 you just duplicate what you had when they do. If they get torn or dirty, who cares? You just wash or replace them with a duplicate.

Outside the classroom, Indy was a pretty spiffy dresser. Look at the suits he had in Raiders when he boarded the plane and at the end of the film. He had a few nice outfits in CS too when not in the field!

Even his travel hat was different.

It's just his work gear that remains essentially unchanged, and that's not out of the norm.

Regard! Michaelson

We have a lot of neat points here. Maybe we're over thinking it, it is a fictional world afterall, but regardless, its fun to think about! .

I kind of feel that his outfit from Temple of Doom was the same outfit from Raiders, but was a few years later and just was a lot more distressed. ie. His hat has a tighter pinch and looks MUCH more worn and dirty (which is probably why he now had a travel fedora). And maybe in the years since Raiders (from losing his gear on the bantu wind, or destroying his gear from Raiders in the years before LC), by the time LC happens, years have gone by and his old worn out hat has been replaced with a similar one in much better condition, and his old lamb dark Jacket has been replaced by a (speculated) tougher cow hide jacket in a different shade of brown. Also, I (if I remember correctly) Bernie Pollack sent last crusade images to Steve Delk to replicate the look of the pinch of the fedora in LC for "continuity). That would make me believe they were trying to say it was the same hat, or the same make of hat from LC, perhaps replaced again.

I honestly really like this explanation. It's simple, clean and just makes sense. Where he actually got his gear? I dont know, don't really care, but fedoras were common and safari shirts are easy to get, as well as officer pinks etc. My initial reason for starting this thread was I thought that his jacket should have a stitched up LEFT arm on his jacket in LC. Now it makes more sense that that his jacket was simply replaced. So I'm good with that

Thanks all for your input. Its been fun

-Tom

Michaelson wrote:Bear in mind, the 'outfit' we're talking about is his field gear. Most folks I know (including me) have 'yard clothes' that you wear for function when working in an outside environment, not fashion, and we wear them year after year until they fall apart. 9 times out of 10 you just duplicate what you had when they do. If they get torn or dirty, who cares? You just wash or replace them with a duplicate.

Outside the classroom, Indy was a pretty spiffy dresser. Look at the suits he had in Raiders when he boarded the plane and at the end of the film. He had a few nice outfits in CS too when not in the field!

Even his travel hat was different.

It's just his work gear that remains essentially unchanged, and that's not out of the norm.

Regard! Michaelson

Yep. And the Indy adventures are shaggy dog stories anyway I don't think we need to bring in a whole new character, Bob the tailor. It's like needing to invent a time machine to explain why some of Indy's stuff hasn't been invented yet.

1BAT4U wrote:We have a lot of neat points here. Maybe we're over thinking it, it is a fictional world afterall, but regardless, its fun to think about! .

I kind of feel that his outfit from Temple of Doom was the same outfit from Raiders, but was a few years later and just was a lot more distressed. ie. His hat has a tighter pinch and looks MUCH more worn and dirty (which is probably why he now had a travel fedora).

-Tom

Do you mean the outfit in Raiders is meant to be the same outfit as the prequel ToD?

As I said before I think the outfit is not really meant to be explained - it's just a superhero costume with tweaks each story and putting logic into it is futile. If we ever get an Indy reboot will we bother to explain the different appearance or simply defer to the magic of cinema?

To settle this one maybe we need a scene in a new film wherein Indy visit's his favorite supplier in a far east workshop - China some place. "Hello Indy, here are two more leather jackets, the ones you like. What do you do to these things!! And here's your new pant's and shirts. Sorry, we went to another supplier for the shirts but they're just as good...."' I can almost imagine that.

CM wrote:

Michaelson wrote:Bear in mind, the 'outfit' we're talking about is his field gear. Most folks I know (including me) have 'yard clothes' that you wear for function when working in an outside environment, not fashion, and we wear them year after year until they fall apart. 9 times out of 10 you just duplicate what you had when they do. If they get torn or dirty, who cares? You just wash or replace them with a duplicate.

Outside the classroom, Indy was a pretty spiffy dresser. Look at the suits he had in Raiders when he boarded the plane and at the end of the film. He had a few nice outfits in CS too when not in the field!

Even his travel hat was different.

It's just his work gear that remains essentially unchanged, and that's not out of the norm.

Regard! Michaelson

Yep. And the Indy adventures are shaggy dog stories anyway I don't think we need to bring in a whole new character, Bob the tailor. It's like needing to invent a time machine to explain why some of Indy's stuff hasn't been invented yet.

Not sure why you quoted me. I didn't bring 'Bob the tailor' to the party.

I said 'work clothes' aren't slaves to fashion, and therefore really DON'T change over time. Old 'Bob' never entered the picture.

Regards! M

I know you didn't M. I was agreeing with you and then making the point that we didn't need Bob for the reasons you had articulated.

Again, I get that it's a movie and that Indy has a costume and that it is meant in theory to always be the same gear. His gear took alot of damage in the first 2 films.....to me his gear didn't become a costume until LC and CS. From that point out, it was a superhero outfit as stated above. Indy's never been a superhero to me until the last movie.

All just fun speculation.

jmo

CM wrote:I know you didn't M. I was agreeing with you and then making the point that we didn't need Bob for the reasons you had articulated.

Bob is not amused...

It does seem that Indy treats most of his nicer clothes as disposable unless Short Round is there to look after him.

In the Raven Bar as Indy shoots from the doorway alternately firing off shots with his S&W and Browning a bullet passes through his jacket sleeve too!

Tibor wrote:Bob is not amused...

It does seem that Indy treats most of his nicer clothes as disposable unless Short Round is there to look after him.

Yeah, poor guy, his business just opened

Personally, Ford wanted Indy to be a real guy that got hurt..... so to me that extends to his gear as well. So Ford wanted a real world aspect to Indy......which means his gear should have a real world aspect.....which means it is replaced when it's damaged. jmo

Obviously, Ford's thoughts on Indy have changed over the years, by LC and CS Indy didn't get hurt near as much if at all.... same with his gear.